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(Topic ID: 107430)

Scam alert on MM Playfield listed for Sale


By dawasa

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 29 posts
  • 18 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by TigerLaw
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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This topic is closed.

-2
#1 6 years ago

- Pinside Moderator notice: please read through the whole thread to form an opinion, "scammer" might exaggerating it quite a bit -

I agreed to purchase a Medieval Madness playfield IPB listed by Tom Flores here on Pinside for $875. Spoke to him on the phone. Told me he picked it by hand because he worked for the company that made them. He knows everyone important in pinball and has a self proclaimed Great reputation.
He sent me a MM playfield that was cracked by the shooter lane, horrible finish, and imperfections galore. Before I purchased it I asked him to check that the ball fits properly in the shooter lane because I saw a video where Chris Hutchinson said this is a problem with IPB MM playfields. Tom said Yes it fits perfect. NOT true. Ball only touched on outer edges of lane. See pic
Beware of this guy and this playfield. He wanted me to send him a check or Money Order and said he would refund me my money plus shipping. I insisted on PayPal payment. He agreed but suggested gift payment. I was leary so I paid the fee to protect myself in case of scam.
Don't waste your time with this playfield. Junk! People like him give pinball a bad name. He blatantly lied and said that he looked over the playfield and it's flawless.
I sent him pics of the crack and other damages. He said I could send it back for refund, but informed me that I have to send back the same playfield he sent me. When I looked back at the pics he sent me before I purchased it, the crack was in his pics. The crack was not noticeable unless you knew to look for it.
He did reluctantly refund my money, but he had no choice. I kept it cordial and suggested that he only sell the playfield to someone in person so they can see the damages and what they are getting. He said I have no business telling him what to do and so on. It's not like I called him a scammer and liar. He most likely intends to try to sucker someone else by selling it over the Internet. Just giving a potential buyer the heads up.

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#2 6 years ago

Sorry for your experience. On a more positive note, that pic of Rudy looking through the peep hole is both creepy and hilarious!

#3 6 years ago

Thanks for the warning

#4 6 years ago

Your welcome. His name is Tom Floros.

#5 6 years ago

Never scammed anyone and never tried to scam anyone. No reason to. Facts speak for themselves. Buyer left out some key details and spinning story above. Oh well, you can't please everyone

Facts
1. Offered to meet the buyer at expo so he could see the playfield in person and look it over closely. Said he wasn't going to expo.
2. Sent as may pics as I could, all high res, and described playfield to the best of my ability.
3. Buyer wanted to pay vial paypal, I said not a problem.
4. Buyer wanted full refund including shipping if not happy with merchandise. I agreed without hesitation.
5. Upon receiving notice of buyer being unhappy, I asked him to send it back and would give him a full refund.
6. I paid for return shipping, and upon receipt of playfield, sent him a full paypal refund, including all shipping costs, paypal fees and everything. He is out nothing. I in turn am out dollars for return shipping and packing materials etc. Not an issue because it is the cost of doing business.
7. He received a full refund, shipping and all fees. I paid for return shipping costs as well. How is that an intentional scam. He is totally whole. Why would I offer a full refund if I was scamming.

The buyer is hot because after he received an immediate refund, same day I received playfield back, he sends me an email telling me what I should do with the playfield and how I should go about selling it. I told him to mind his own business and he got pissed. Posted this because he knows he can't communicate worth shit and is acting like a child. Again, gave him a full refund immediately upon return of the playfield. Facts above speak for themselves. Go spin some more David Salisbury.

dougram69@yahoo.com

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from dougram69:

Never scammed anyone and never tried to scam anyone. No reason to. Facts speak for themselves. Buyer left out some key details and spinning story above. Oh well, you can't please everyone

Are you Doug Ram or Tom Floros?

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from centerflank:

Are you Doug Ram or Tom Floros?

Maybe he's RamRod?

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:

Maybe he's RamRod?

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#9 6 years ago

Seems like you were both unconvieniced. Seems like the seller took care of an unhappy customer, what more did you really want him to do?

#10 6 years ago
Quoted from dawasa:

I agreed to purchase a Medieval Madness playfield IPB listed by Tom Flores here on Pinside for $875. Spoke to him on the phone. Told me he picked it by hand because he worked for the company that made them. He knows everyone important in pinball and has a self proclaimed Great reputation.
He sent me a MM playfield that was cracked by the shooter lane, horrible finish, and imperfections galore. Before I purchased it I asked him to check that the ball fits properly in the shooter lane because I saw a video where Chris Hutchinson said this is a problem with IPB MM playfields. Tom said Yes it fits perfect. NOT true. Ball only touched on outer edges of lane. See pic
Beware of this guy and this playfield. He wanted me to send him a check or Money Order and said he would refund me my money plus shipping. I insisted on PayPal payment. He agreed but suggested gift payment. I was leary so I paid the fee to protect myself in case of scam.
Don't waste your time with this playfield. Junk! People like him give pinball a bad name. He blatantly lied and said that he looked over the playfield and it's flawless.
I sent him pics of the crack and other damages. He said I could send it back for refund, but informed me that I have to send back the same playfield he sent me. When I looked back at the pics he sent me before I purchased it, the crack was in his pics. The crack was not noticeable unless you knew to look for it.
He did reluctantly refund my money, but he had no choice. I kept it cordial and suggested that he only sell the playfield to someone in person so they can see the damages and what they are getting. He said I have no business telling him what to do and so on. It's not like I called him a scammer and liar. He most likely intends to try to sucker someone else by selling it over the Internet. Just giving a potential buyer the heads up.

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So what was the seller's personal gain from the scam?

-1
#11 6 years ago

Doug or Tom or whatever name he is using. Asked me if the crack could have happened by the shipper. He was probably trying to get insurance of shipping company to pay for his damaged playfield.
He packaged in peanuts and the very small bubble wrap only at corners. Didn't mark fragile on box.
I posted this because I was giving the heads up to someone who might make the mistake of purchasing this playfield. I had to drive 40 minutes from my home (one way) to ship it back. I also had to repackage and go through the trouble of emailing him and waiting for him to accept the package after 3 days. Sounds like fun, purchase his playfield.
I live in Nj. It is no excuse that I wasn't going to expo. For someone to say they checked it out took high res pics, and checked that the ball fits is ridiculous to act like he didn't see that crack. He didn't address the ball not fitting on this post. Does that pic lie?
Pic a name Tom Floros or Doug! Either name still spells scammer. I am done. Buyer beware!

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#12 6 years ago

I still don't understand? He gave you a refund no questions asked and looks like he packed it pretty good with all those peanuts. So what is the problem? I recently sold a playfield to someone overseas and I'm glad he was a good buyer and didn't complain about anything. Sometimes the buyer can be the problem.

#13 6 years ago

You were inconvenienced, so was he. He gave you a complete refund. If he would not have given a refund, then I would accuse him of being a scammer.

When he offered you to check it in person and told you he was going to be at the Expo, even if you could not go, maybe you could have gotten somebody here to check it out for you that did go. I have done this for people on Pinside with pins for sale in my area, so it is useful information he gave you about looking at it at the Expo.

Sounds more like a bad transaction than a scam. Big difference.

Sorry it did not go better.

#14 6 years ago

Is this whole thread a joke?

#15 6 years ago

Scammers don't refund money.

#16 6 years ago

OP- your not really saving anyone here from a scammer and in fact it is rather crappy of you to call the seller one. Given all the info provided, I would happily purchase an item from this seller. I congratulate the seller on his actions and hope that more people treat people as good as he did, myself included. I don't package playfields as well as he did. Fyi, your 40 min drive to ship this could have been resolved with a call tag and they would have picked it up at your house.

#17 6 years ago

Who is Chris Hutchinson?

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from dawasa:

. Didn't mark fragile on box.

No machine at UPS or USPS can read "fragile" on a box.

All packages are treated the same, no matter what is written on them (a package marked "glass" is treated the same as one marked "steel").

All items must be packed to survive a 10 foot drop on the corner of the box.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-proper-shipping-playfields

#19 6 years ago

Sometimes a "bad seller" thread is a "whiny buyer" thread in disguise. Sorry, I call them like I see them.

#20 6 years ago

Sellers beware. God forbid this guy buys something from you, and he isn't happy, and you give him a full refund. You won't hear the end of it. On top of this, he will publically call you a scammer, a liar and say you intend to cheat someone else. Completely slanderous. He has no sense of reality.

Lastly, he keeps going on an on how the playfield is cracked, damaged, etc. It isn't. After he pointed out what he calls a crack, I inspected it upon return, and it is NOT Cracked. The clear was thin in that area and flaked up. It's about 1/4 inch in length by the ball trough. I am very glad he pointed this out to me as I had missed it, and very glad he returned it for a refund. Which I provided immediately. I only want satisfied customers when I sell stuff. What I can't get over is the continued insinuations on how I am going to cheat everyone on pinside and will try to pass of bad merchandise. This is ridiculous. David, go find something better to do.

QuaretrGrabber, your post is right on the money. You will never make some people happy no matter what you do and will be called a liar and scammer for your efforts.

dougram69@yahoo.com

#21 6 years ago

Lesson learned all right. Never sell to or do business with the op.

#22 6 years ago

He gave a full refund, including shipping both ways and offered to let you see it ahead of time, sounds pretty honest to me.. Maybe it was not to the standards you were expecting, but it sure sounds like he made it right.. I personally would not be calling this person out..

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from dougram69:

Lastly, he keeps going on an on how the playfield is cracked, damaged, etc. It isn't. After he pointed out what he calls a crack, I inspected it upon return, and it is NOT Cracked. The clear was thin in that area and flaked up. It's about 1/4 inch in length by the ball trough. I am very glad he pointed this out to me as I had missed it, and very glad he returned it for a refund. Which I provided immediately. I only want satisfied customers when I sell stuff. What I can't get over is the continued insinuations on how I am going to cheat everyone on pinside and will try to pass of bad merchandise.

I don't see any cracks in his picture, and I think the fact you refunded the money+shipping shows you are a honest seller. But what is up with that shooter lane? I might be missing something, I don't claim have an experienced eye at all, but it really doesn't look like it fits a ball correctly. It might be correct, I have no experience in Williams shooter lanes...I'm just curious.

#24 6 years ago
Quoted from asay:

But what is up with that shooter lane? I might be missing something, I don't claim have an experienced eye at all, but it really doesn't look like it fits a ball correctly. It might be correct, I have no experience in Williams shooter lanes...I'm just curious.

Many repo playfields are not 100% copies of the originals.

MM has many known problems

AFM does not fit the Cliffies because the cut outs are different.

WH20 has wrong colors.

Fathom has wrong colors.

The list goes on and on.........

Once you know a brand and it's shortcomings, you can make corrections BEFORE you start populating - it's much less frustrating that way.

#25 6 years ago

vid1900, you just might be the smartest person I've ever read

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from dougram69:

Sellers beware. God forbid this guy buys something from you, and he isn't happy, and you give him a full refund. You won't hear the end of it. On top of this, he will publically call you a scammer, a liar and say you intend to cheat someone else. Completely slanderous. He has no sense of reality.
Lastly, he keeps going on an on how the playfield is cracked, damaged, etc. It isn't. After he pointed out what he calls a crack, I inspected it upon return, and it is NOT Cracked. The clear was thin in that area and flaked up. It's about 1/4 inch in length by the ball trough. I am very glad he pointed this out to me as I had missed it, and very glad he returned it for a refund. Which I provided immediately. I only want satisfied customers when I sell stuff. What I can't get over is the continued insinuations on how I am going to cheat everyone on pinside and will try to pass of bad merchandise. This is ridiculous. David, go find something better to do.
QuaretrGrabber, your post is right on the money. You will never make some people happy no matter what you do and will be called a liar and scammer for your efforts.
dougram69@yahoo.com

So what is your real name so we all know who we would deal with when you sell a pf?

#28 6 years ago

No scam here....just a good sellers reputation being tarnished...
Seriously...that packing/shipping job looks first rate...and most sellers do not cover shipping charges on return items....

#29 6 years ago

I see no reason to leave this thread open at this time.

Both sides have had their say. Both sides clearly were inconvenienced to some extent.

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