1994 Guns n Roses. Just my opinion. Not a easy find.

Well, Stern LE is a pointless upgrade of monies so let's get that out of your system.
I would just get a JP Premium because you can probably get a new one right now.

You're asking for opinions here...

Your choice should be between POTC LE and JP Premium.

POTC LE may be difficult to find. Expensive too. Phenomenal pin. Multiball craziness. 5 flippers. Amazing toys/gadgets. Awesome lighting and audio. Nothing else like it really.

I agree with TheLaw. JP Premium would be the choice JP version. Arguably the best Stern ever. It's just awesome all around. Even without all of the hoped for movie/actor/audio licensing. 3 flippers. Fun modes. Super challenging. Bad ass pin.

Those are currently 2 of my favorite machines of all time.

Another excellent choice would be TWD Premium. Some people bag on it. They're just wrong! It's fantastic. An A+.

All 3 have a deep ruleset.

My vote goes to JP Premium.

Also. For SURE somebody here will tell you to buy a JP Pro and another Stern Pro for the price of a POTCLE. Don't listen to them. They're wrong. Stern Pros are pinball "lite".

Junky

Owner of both (JP prem and JJPOTC LE), both are amazing. If I was buying now, JP. POTC is not $4k better(assuming you can get one for $11k).

That's actually a good analogy.

My vote goes to JJP POTC

I doubt that there will ever be another pin quite like this one.

Don't know if JJP is doing a new GNR. I did pin sound & it's even better now. Be hard to top this game with a new version. Not into the newer games but the guys on here know better than me since I don't own those. Good luck, John

I'm confident that whatever JJP is cooking up, it'll absolutely obliterate that old GNR.

The lcd is going to be such a big deal with this one...what the heck is it going to be?
Cartoons band, cartoon not band, *shudder* band clips?
Maiden = good for me
Aerosmith = bad
Beatles = good - hurts to say that because in dont really like it, but it's a cohesive package.

Absolutely!

Rolex of pins
Love it

Exactly agree!

It could happen--it most likely will be better and flashier, but...the DE G&R is a pretty well thought out design and is fun to play. Probably their best effort.

Nick is spot on with his advice...POTC LE is the best game, but its expensive and u get a lot more for your $ with a JP2 Prem, which u can probably still get NIB....my only caution is the play field issues Stern is having with NIB games. If I was you I would narrow my list to your top 2 or 3 games u want and buy a find nice HUO game that u can inspect and play prior to purchase.

I would consider both rule sets deep. The difference is that KME game wizard modes are “attainable” for mortals, JJPOTC, not so much. So in that case, what does deep mean? How good are you? If looking at just reaching the wizard mode, it will take you a while to get to either, if ever. Looking at ways to tackle it, they both have good breadth as well.

I’m not selling either in the remotely near future. Both are fun as hell! I will say, if you tire on multi ball modes, JJPOTC is not for you.

Here's the thing, don't think in terms of the "long run" Unless u have the money and space to buy everything u want and keep everything you buy then take the best deal right now and enjoy, neither of those games will disappoint. I prefer JP2 myself but its pinball, no matter how deep or how great the theme ur gonna get bored of it. If I had a nickle for every time I've said "this is a keeper"
I'd have about $1.95.

You really can't go wrong with either choice....I think its probably a lot easier to find a JP2 than a POTCLE, and you'll save thousands. If you have the dough just buy both....they'll keep you busy for a while

I own both TZ and POTC and have played plenty of JP2. My vote goes to TZ, because I think the rules in JP2 and POTC can be daunting, and IMO you’ll get more out of TZ, and learn to eventually fix machines in the process. My 3rd machine was a WOZ and I was so scared to work on it I ended up selling. Then I learned...

I have them sitting next to each other. JP is a great game but POTC is just incredible. It’s honestly on a different level to everything else out there at the moment. Downside is that it’s now hard to find and v expensive. Hard to say which one you should buy, but from my perspective POTC is a better machine.

Very true about POTC rule set, but if its a one game collection thats definitely the one to own....I agree that TZ is a great game with a lot of great shots, and an easy rule set to understand (and yes your constantly working on the game)....I really wanted to love WOZ since its such a beautiful game (I owned 2)...sold them both as I couldn't get into the game play

Totally agree it’s a one of a kind, and mine is bolted. But for a first game?

"Rolex of Pins"?, Watch for "Stern" PF issues ( how does the original offender get a pass)?

We are definitely in the twilight zone or the "serious memory lapse/ denial" zone.

Unbelievable....

TZ is an amazing pin...buy, enjoy, and don't look back

TZ is a snooze fest

Disagree, but you do have Rosey cheeks...

I've got nothing to add here except play and do some homework on all 3...lots to look at before dropping this much coin on your first pin.....good luck to Op on his choice...out

That’s how I felt about JP until I played it. It’s so fresh, innovative & exciting...it erased all my previous bias concerning license use. You really feel like you’re part of a cinematic dino world as you play.

POTC, on the other hand - not sure why everyone is blowing a load all over it now. While JP didn’t use all the movie assets, they wrote their own narrative & the animation/voices/rules are all
cohesive with that vision. POTC has all these characters & plotlines featured on the playfield, but no personality or anything in the execution.

booooo!

Can’t agree re: POTC, but JP2 is definitely another masterpiece. Stern has really knocked it out of the park with the last few releases - I just hope the build quality holds up. EHOH is another outstanding release

Its a big nut for a first game, but so is a nice TZ

POTC has way more feel of the movie franchise than JP2....JP2 has essentially zero assets (theme song and logo)....

That's what I was thinking on the PF issues.

Meanwhile, I agreed with the Rolex thing because Rolexes are super expensive, but they're just watches. They might have super high quality (I know, debatable with JJP) but they just do the same damn thing as any other piece.

They are sure are nice to wear around your wrist and some are pretty good investments ! and its not JJP that has the quality problem its Stern that has the bigger quality problems....I know u made an honest mistake

I agree with Rob on this one. I have both and love both. If it's a first game though, I think that the JP Prem is a solid choice. POTC is beautiful and deep, but I think JP has more gameplay fun factor for a single game in a collection. Can't go wrong with either. Play them both enough and your own preference will come forward. Good luck.

I was not a fan after the first reveal, but one or two code updates later, and it’s one for the ages! The playfield doesn’t look like much at first (I wouldn’t have complained if it had ramps like EATPM), but there are a ton of mechs packed in there, and the rules are surprisingly deep! It’s not POTC complex, but you have several approaches you can take at the outset, and not quite a “story” game like JP2, but it does progress through a narrative of sorts, AND I think it has the best theme integration since the Hobbit. The movies and little inserts are just absolutely spot on from Movie Macabre. Blows SS out of the park I think.

All i can go on is games I own, and I had more quality issues with JJP.
Luckily neither have been deal breakers for me either way.

I have a standard Potc. Chris at Kingpin supplied (1st nib pin I bought) Looking back would I have bought a nib le or ce at that time if I had the chance yes . For being my first new game I have learned a ton on how these things work . The glass has to come off the pirates often. Balls stuck in weird spots is the most common problem I come up against . In one year my family of 4 has played 2500 games of pirates. I have rebuilt flippers and changed balls and rubbers on a regular basis . The game is a absolute masterpiece . We are very spoiled having it first . Monster bash and WOz came and went. No comparison to our pirates.

As far as JP. We have had a pro in house for a week now . It is a amazing game . In my opinion a much better game to buy as a first time pin owner and a great start to a collection . Again would I like to have a premium or limited yes. Yet in the middle of this covid mess the nib JP pro was the best option I found currently avaliable. Zack at Flip n Out made it a quick and great buying experience .

When and if JJP releases a second run of Pirates I will be buying another one for sure . Buy what you can find now and enjoy it .

The fit and finish on the JJP games are really worth the money they demand. There is a definite reason a Stern pro and a standard JJP are thousands of dollars apart.

Oh boy

Also bolted to the floor. Mine has been perfect out of the box, not a single issue ever from the catapult, I can destroy the inner loop (the alleged “too tight” shot). It’s got deep code, lots and LOTS of modes, every game feels fulfilling.. the catapult never gets old. Great light show (especially “man from beyond” mode). Coolest integration ever of a knocker (on Bullet Catch mode). What more can I say? Build quality is outstanding. SUPER cool mechs. It’s fun to shoot.. I am totally baffled by naysayers, but not every gave connects with everybody (I never really connected with LOTR for example)