(Topic ID: 171040)

Save us, AP and Houdini!


By DBLM

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 49 posts
  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Robo1
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    cointaker (resized).JPG
    toilet-bank (resized).jpg
    IMG_4375 (resized).JPG
    IMG_4338 (resized).PNG

    14
    #1 2 years ago

    100% not trolling. I was so excited to see JJP 3 and while I applaud their effort and an original theme, this game does not interest me at all. Especially at that price. I am so hoping that AP has a good story tomorrow and that Houdini is real. I know that he is a lightning rod, but I love JPOP designed games. I love the theme, the artwork, etc. I so hope that the game is real and soon. If so, I am in.

    13
    #2 2 years ago

    Have to say I agree with you with regards to the JJP reveal. I so wanted to love this game and the reveal was such a letdown. As soon as the reveal was over, I looked at my hubby and said, "looks like it might be American Pinball that steals the show at Expo after all". Who knew? I think we are both in shock over the choice of theme for JJP - it's sooo NOT current! Who cares about playing a pinball game using their cell phone? Has Lawlor been stuck in a locked room for the last 10 years? He's done great games in the past, but it's 2016 now and no one gives a rat's patootie about a pinball game based on a cell phone!!

    Rant over... I'm just so disappointed.

    #3 2 years ago

    BM66 looked nice but the pricing is very high. Alien is just not doing it for me either. I am so in the market to buy a new game but the new games are just meh to me. I am really hoping Houdini is legit.

    #4 2 years ago

    I feel that name is kinda blah cab art kinda blah for Dialed In but i have a feeling that it well play real good. But well see.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from Tazmancat:

    Have to say I agree with you with regards to the JJP reveal. I so wanted to love this game and the reveal was such a letdown. As soon as the reveal was over, I looked at my hubby and said, "looks like it might be American Pinball that steals the show at Expo after all". Who knew? I think we are both in shock over the choice of theme for JJP - it's sooo NOT current! Who cares about playing a pinball game using their cell phone? Has Lawlor been stuck in a locked room for the last 10 years? He's done great games in the past, but it's 2016 now and no one gives a rat's patootie about a pinball game based on a cell phone!!
    Rant over... I'm just so disappointed.

    I agree with you, this game feels dated and gimmicky at the same time. That is just a horrible combination. For the good of the hobby, I wish everybody success.

    #6 2 years ago

    While I agree it looks like a fumble, I think they were really aiming for the route market. This screams of a redemption type game to attract new players with a photo booth selfie option and Namco arcade like graphics. If American Pinball and Houdini are for real, they will get my money for sure. Stern and JJP have just overpriced and I am out...and I just bought a GB Premium.

    #7 2 years ago

    same boat here.

    i was hoping for a nice JJP #3 but man what a miss and the price is ridiculous.
    stern's batman does nothing for me, tv show was cheesy and still is today and stern went crazy/greedy with the price.

    there is no way i'll buy a 10k pinball machine.

    stern and JJP are like let see who can charge more for a pinball, sorry but they will learn the hard way. they are killing the hobby, slowly.

    if AP's houdini play great with a price at 7K they will have the market and it could hurt stern and JJP.

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from 2Kaulitz:

    I feel that name is kinda blah cab art kinda blah for Dialed In but i have a feeling that it well play real good. But well see.

    Game is loaded with tons of toys and gimmicks... also the lighting and all the nice upgrades jjp usually has. People are just in shock bc of a non licensed theme for first time in a while.. give it time bc pinball is meant to play and ibet this one will play great with alot of cool shit. Definitely more appealing for the price than a stern but these prices are just getting out of hand ....

    #9 2 years ago

    How about alien? It looks pretty good and the price isnt horrible for what all u get....check it out...

    -2
    #10 2 years ago

    This was from cointaker....so ap is real you all

    We had an invite to the new American Pinball facility last night. First of all, it is real! The games are beautiful / gorgeous, and spectacular! In my opinion, you will be floored. The build quality looks to be spot on. Very excited to be getting our Magic Girl! I thought Houdini was on par too. Looks even better in person than in the pictures I've seen.

    They have plans on completing all prior Zidware obligations. I also had the opportunity to chat with Jpop a bit. He took ownership of the situation, apologized repeatedly, and is working to deliver his games. He also realizes his strengths and weaknesses and will be focusing on what he does best.

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from beatmaster:

    if AP's houdini play great with a price at 7K they will have the market and it could hurt stern and JJP.

    It's not even a matter of hurting Stern and JJP. Let's be honest, paying 7K or more for a toy is ridiculous, especially when I bought my game at an auction for less than a grand. It is just that people are so frothed up now that they are willing to throw their cash at anything. What are we really getting for this money? Touching on some lighting rod folks, I agree with Kaneda and the BlackKnight when they say that pre-ordering games sight unseen is stupid and wasteful. I agree with them when they say we have hit a tipping point where 7K is now going to be the floor. I can afford this price and more, but do I want too?

    The crazy thing is that if Houdini is real and plays great, I will gladly pay 7K for it. I am not a flipper, and I only have one other pin. Not looking to have a big collection. I am just looking for something that speaks to me and this is the first game since the mid 90s that really does. I so hope that it is good.

    #12 2 years ago

    The only "Shock" is what Stern and JJP are asking us to pay for a new game. I want to spend the money, but they have crossed the line.
    American Pinball is going to take over hitting the sweet spot for what the consumer is willing to pay....I only hope they can keep up with the demand.

    #13 2 years ago
    Quoted from beatmaster:

    if AP's houdini play great with a price at 7K they will have the market and it could hurt stern and JJP.

    Ummmm Alien has 2 big LCD's, 3 ramps, 4 flippers, magnets, a toy that can eat Red and Ted for lunch, tons of unique features, and one heck of an integration... and it's what, $6,400?

    AP @ $7K with no proven track record of reliability, play-ability, programming, and only talk (no actions) about Zidware correctional actions, I don't think AP would have the sales or reputation to have the "cheap" pinball market cornered. Infact, once Stern returns at ~$5K Pro's at the next title, and Spooky drops #3 at $6300, a $7K Houdini would be the FOURTH cheapest option. More power to AP if they get this all going, and do all they hope, but to think that $7K is some sort of unbeatable price point is only focusing on BM66 and DILE/DICE, both of which will be an interesting (hopefully short) chapter in the pinball history books.

    #14 2 years ago
    Quoted from bigd1979:

    How about alien? It looks pretty good and the price isnt horrible for what all u get....check it out...

    heybigd1979, sadly the Alien game does not do anything for me. Houdini is the game that I was referring to a few weeks ago when you and I were talking on another thread (night I was having cocktails on the boat) where I said I was looking for a game but did not like any of the new games. Out of everything that I have scene, this is the one game that has spoken to me. I saw Cointakers post and the others and that gives me heart. I guess we will see what tomorrow brings.

    #15 2 years ago

    Premium machines and these prices are just rediculous. I have never payed more than $5K for a game and never will. Someone made a topic of when these prices will out do operators, well be careful JJP and Stern, your gonna out price collectors too. Sad thing for this hobby.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from cleland:

    While I agree it looks like a fumble, I think they were really aiming for the route market

    At $9,000 and $12,500?!!... and only offering a Limited Edition and Collector's edition?

    You sir, are too kind!

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    Alien has 2 big LCD's, 3 ramps, 4 flippers, magnets, a toy that can eat Red and Ted for lunch, tons of unique features, and one heck of an integration... and it's what, $6,400?

    Actually, if you want 2 big LCDs, the price is $7000. $6450 for standard edition, $550 for the optional 27" LCD upgrade.

    #18 2 years ago

    Well well..
    Looks like the crowd is walking away from the big guys and towards Houdini.
    7k is a great price.
    I hope they deliver..
    It would be a hilarious turn in pinball history..
    Titans watching how a new player takes over their market.
    And simply by selling pins for cheaper with jpop as designer.
    You cannot make this up!? It is f king hilarious!!
    Love how i got downvoted a million times for being positive about american pinball.
    Looks like you can lay your pitchforks aside.
    It is American Pinball stealing the show at Expo.
    And i love it!

    #19 2 years ago

    "AP takes the lead"

    IMG_4338 (resized).PNG

    #20 2 years ago

    JJP might almost go out of buisness after this release. Let's say it's a WWE type seller and TH to me is so-so and Woz has been milked.

    That could leave them for a year plus without another pin to sell.

    #21 2 years ago

    Didn't ap cancel?

    #23 2 years ago

    The sad thing is that the bar has been set low for AP for this expo based upon what has been revealed. Aliens is interesting but is not everybody's cup of tea. Bateman looks good but is way expensive. Dialed In is an abject lesson in how not to launch a product. Houdini looks visually stunning and if AP has a good story, they easily win. Get your popcorn because it is going to get interesting.

    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    The sad thing is that the bar has been set low for AP for this expo based upon what has been revealed. Aliens is interesting but is not everybody's cup of tea. Bateman looks good but is way expensive. Dialed In is an abject lesson in how not to launch a product. Houdini looks visually stunning and if AP has a good story, they easily win. Get your popcorn because it is going to get interesting.

    Yes!!!!!!!
    It is going to be awesome!!!

    #25 2 years ago

    afmr for the win.

    #26 2 years ago

    Not quite the saving that I think a lot of us were hoping for. Seems like they are bringing in Belcer (sp) to help take JPOPs ideas and make real. Looks like from the pictures in the other thread that they are changing the cabinet, moving the LCD (good move in my opinion) etc. No need to get upset about them not showing the game today...it seems like they were telegraphing that they were not. I am still very excited about the possibility of this game and look forward to keeping up with the development. With that being said, nothing to really see here until they get further down the pipe. No money has been asked for or give, so no foul (at least on this JPOP game).

    #27 2 years ago

    I want it.

    IMG_4375 (resized).JPG

    #28 2 years ago

    AP is a joke. And potentially a con because they started off working with a guy who stole a lot of money from me. John Popadiuk . If they could not see through the lies and BS for over 7 months...

    Plus they started off with repeated lies about what they were bringing to expo.

    Add those two things together, use your logic , and 2 + 2 does equal 4.

    Or think of it this way - does anyone here want to be responsible even partly for encouraging someone to participate in this when it has been four scams in a row so far? MG, RAZA, AIW, and Pintasia before you ask. Zero success so far. Everyone scammed. Does anyone want to be the guy that encouraged people to throw good money after bad? Why not instead take an approach that includes warning others as opposed to encouraging them to potentially get conned?

    Think of it this way - if we are friends walking around and we witness a robbery - when the robber approaches you I am whipping his ass right away - I know what he wants . I mean hell I just watched him rob a guy , right?

    #29 2 years ago

    This Expo was going to be the best Expo ever. It had everything. Multiple reveals, people with money to spend... And come to today, we are hoping for JPoop to save the day??? Oh my. $7000 pins looking like a bargain? The industry can't survive like that. The "hobby" will be fine (Pinball rocks!). But the current industry trying to build games has raised the price so high that they are limiting their pool of buyers. That usually ends badly.

    #30 2 years ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    100% not trolling. I was so excited to see JJP 3 and while I applaud their effort and an original theme, this game does not interest me at all. Especially at that price. I am so hoping that AP has a good story tomorrow and that Houdini is real. I know that he is a lightning rod, but I love JPOP designed games. I love the theme, the artwork, etc. I so hope that the game is real and soon. If so, I am in.

    JPOP will never let you down. In the spirit of innovation and magic, they've come up with a great way to get your pre-order money in. Just dump it in here and push the lever. They'll deliver your brand new pinball machine the same way. Magic!

    toilet-bank (resized).jpg

    11
    #31 2 years ago

    If anyone is getting " scammed" now, it would be the owners of AP.
    In chatting with them. I doubt that now.
    Id rather root for their success rather than their
    failure.
    Wouldn't that be the best for everyone?

    #32 2 years ago

    They came off very poorly at expo. Thier attitude and posture towards the whole affair was off putting. No offense to zidware customers but if ap really wants to make pins, they would be best served to reboot, dump Houdini and start from scratch with Joe balcer designing them a game. They will never slip the noose that is jpop.

    #33 2 years ago

    I really wonder, even if they aren't using Zidware cabinet,
    why not show it in a cabinet even if it's a ZIDware one?
    It's a big step back to just show a playfield on a table...

    Show SOME animations
    Play SOME music
    Present SOME sounds

    #34 2 years ago
    Quoted from Skins:

    They came off very poorly at expo. Thier attitude and posture towards the whole affair was off putting. No offense to zidware customers but if ap really wants to make pins, they would be best served to reboot, dump Houdini and start from scratch with Joe balcer designing them a game. They will never slip the noose that is jpop.

    I kind of agree. Making 25 MGs for the trade off of Houdini puts them behind the 8 ball to begin with. If they can get it done, I'll applaud them but it's going to be an uphill climb without any appreciation until the delivery of games.

    -3
    #35 2 years ago

    Relatively new to pinball ownership and this board. I'm shocked at all the crying and complaining about escalating prices. It's a free, open market fellas. If these guys are out pricing the market they will suffer. If they are able to strive from larger profit margins then good for them. I could understand if more people were saying that the games are getting too technical and gimmicky which is increasing production costs but that's not what I'm reading. Suck it up

    #36 2 years ago

    Sadly this game interests me most of anything I have seen pictures of at the expo. There game "looks" visually stunning. Will it ever actually flip? Who knows. I am never pre buying ever after my woz experience and at least I received my game after three years. The other question is if these guy produce a game who is doing the coding and how would their service be with issues in the future?

    I want it to be awesome but I am still skeptical.

    #37 2 years ago

    I have hope for a few reasons.

    Having manufactured in India, China, and Malaysia is hard when you are not there in person, or understand the culture and people.
    They are very good at "copying".
    Now AP has roots, family and connections established, functioning, and successful
    In support.
    Maybe they are learning about pinball, and pinheads, but there is a core backing here.
    My regular business has seen this happen.

    US manufacturing gets forced to change.

    The cost of 2 to 3 US coders on a game, buys 25 in India.
    A board made in China can be a couple of dollars.
    an ROB lightboard is $.13 cents.
    I could go on, but it is entirely possible for success.

    JPop is THE issue...not necc. AP.

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    BM66 looked nice but the pricing is very high. Alien is just not doing it for me either. I am so in the market to buy a new game but the new games are just meh to me. I am really hoping Houdini is legit.

    But at a least it appears Alien has more in the game for the price then Sterns new Batman for the price which only get the new LCD for the price increase.

    #39 2 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    Think of it this way - if we are friends walking around and we witness a robbery - when the robber approaches you I am whipping his ass right away - I know what he wants . I mean hell I just watched him rob a guy , right?

    The same could be said with current pricing. If I witness a $12,000 pinball "robbery" I am going to walk await. If a manufacturer comes back to their senses I may buy their machine.

    #41 2 years ago
    Quoted from bigd1979:

    This was from cointaker....so ap is real you all
    We had an invite to the new American Pinball facility last night. First of all, it is real! The games are beautiful / gorgeous, and spectacular! In my opinion, you will be floored. The build quality looks to be spot on. Very excited to be getting our Magic Girl! I thought Houdini was on par too. Looks even better in person than in the pictures I've seen.
    They have plans on completing all prior Zidware obligations. I also had the opportunity to chat with Jpop a bit. He took ownership of the situation, apologized repeatedly, and is working to deliver his games. He also realizes his strengths and weaknesses and will be focusing on what he does best.

    So American Pinball is real and not a scam? Who are these people? Is it just me or does it feel like this came out of nowhere?

    #42 2 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    So American Pinball is real and not a scam? Who are these people? Is it just me or does it feel like this came out of nowhere?

    That was before Expo.

    cointaker (resized).JPG

    From posts on here it didn't sound like Chris from Cointaker was too happy with the way the Expo seminar went. So for a company that's been around for a month, they still have a lot of work to do.

    #43 2 years ago

    Op, I like your passion. Don't let this mess tarnish what you love about pinball. Just keep enjoying it.

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    Op, I like your passion. Don't let this mess tarnish what you love about pinball. Just keep enjoying it.

    Thanks mrgone! I hope it all works out and we get a good game but if not, no big deal.

    #45 2 years ago

    man i was hoping to see pictures and videos from expo for houdini.
    that's the kind of theme i like.

    i just hope AP doesn't get fu(*?$ up by jpoop, i really wanna see that game.

    #46 2 years ago
    Quoted from Sticky:

    So American Pinball is real and not a scam?

    Knowing how convincing/seducing Jpop proved to be, and AP being rookies in the pinball world... The question I am currently asking is rather:
    "Was American Pinball scammed by Jpop?"

    #47 2 years ago

    Looks like it from any angle you look at it. Delays, new hires to replace him - and finish his work, Houdini not being shown as there were 'Zs' on it and they finally realized that they needed to avoid that association like the plague, MG not being given to Cointaker.com as again, now there would have been an AP pinball on the Expo floor that has the Z logo in it. I am 100% sure that they did NOT lie when they announced that they would give Chris his MG at Expo, I bet the machine is sitting in their shop, ready to go, more so than BM66, it was just that they realized how screwed they would have been legally if they would have followed through. Look, they even dropped the Zidware cabinet being their standard cabinet last second before expo, keeping them from making a grand entrance.

    I believe that AP are the real deal, everything points at it if you leave (the hate for) JPOP out of it, but that they got suckered in, just like JLM33 said, and just like many before them.

    So, don't be mad at them, don't give them hate, if anything they seem like fellow victims and their burden is being associated now. Now they have a start up company with the added burden of having to give away 20 Magic Girls, being associated with JPOP and having to deal with legal troubles they did not start, all because they bought into his blabber like many before them. How can you be mad at them, if anything I feel bad for them and root for them even more now.

    #48 2 years ago
    Quoted from DerGoetz:

    I believe that AP are the real deal, everything points at it if you leave (the hate for) JPOP out of it, but that they got suckered in, just like JLM33 said, and just like many before them.
    So, don't be mad at them, don't give them hate, if anything they seem like fellow victims and their burden is being associated now. Now they have a state up with the added Budden of giving away 20 Magic Girls and having to deal with legal troubles they did not start, but ended up with as they fell for JPOPs blabber.

    That doesn't scare you? The dude has been industry poison for 2 years (at least) and a company making pinball machines doesn't know it? Its like the fire department hiring a known arsonist.

    #49 2 years ago

    My 2 cents. I had paid 6000 into Raza. Lost the whole bunch. Wrote to John and then here and let him and the rest of the community know what i think. Anything positive that comes from this story i will be happy about. I also hope that it can make loads of unhappy folks feel better again and redeem John of this huge embarrasment, which it is. I think that his emotional and logical skills are undoubtedly limited, or else he would have dealt differently with the collapse of his business. An opportunist and a questionable character is certain. I am open to see what comes out of this. His talents of designing are not reduced by his lack of ethics. I would like a game out of this but i will pass on a beer with the guy.

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    From: $ 99.00
    Lighting - Under Cabinet
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 59.99
    Hardware
    Chroma Pinball
    $ 99.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 11.95
    $ 29.99
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 89.99
    $ 40.00
    Lighting - Backbox
    Rock Custom Pinball
    $ 150.00
    Playfield - Protection
    Republic Of Pinball
    $ 20.00
    $ 175.00
    Lighting - Interactive
    Professor Pinball
    From: $ 129.95
    Lighting - Interactive
    Hookedonpinball.com
    $ 1,099.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 229.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinballBulbs
    $ 76.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 199.99
    $ 839.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    $ 12.00
    Electronics
    Yorktown Parts and Equip
    $ 87.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 7.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    £ 99.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinballToys
    $ 23.00
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    The MOD Couple
    $ 24.95
    Playfield - Decals
    Hookedonpinball.com
    € 8.10
    Flipper Parts
    Buthamburg
    $ 69.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside