(Topic ID: 134339)
Linked Games
Safe Cracker
Bally, 1996
Topic Gallery
Melbourne
Quoted from j_m_:wayne,
I'm confused as well. why on earth would you give me a price which wouldn't remotely be the price that I would be purchasing them from you (especially the way that you worded it to me in the email between you and I), and I quote:and going back a bit further (just a month ago), I asked you directly about purchasing a set of international tokens, to which your response was that they were "all sold out"
They cost $150 a set 10 years ago sorry if you mis interpreted that.
I also have some international tokens, not sets but will let Rick know what I have
ok, let's cut to the chase to try and determine whether or not this is actually feasible for all interested parties.
wayne:
what would be the price (not cost) for me to purchase 100 boxes (each box containing 300 tokens, comprised of 15 pcs. of the 20 unique designs; 19 in brass, 1 in aluminum color, minted in the domestic size) with PPS's licensing fees factored in?
would this price include shipping from australia (where you are striking the tokens) to michigan, usa? if not, what would the price of those charges be as well?
Quoted from Ballypinball:There seems to be some confusion here!
.. Well, f*ck Thanks.
Sparks, NV
Quoted from j_m_:ok, let's cut to the chase to try and determine whether or not this is actually feasible for all interested parties.
wayne:
what would be the price (not cost) for me to purchase 100 boxes (each box containing 300 tokens, comprised of 15 pcs. of the 20 unique designs; 19 in brass, 1 in aluminum color, minted in the domestic size) with PPS's licensing fees factored in?
would this price include shipping from australia (where you are striking the tokens) to michigan, usa? if not, what would the price of those charges be as well?
you are asking the wrong person ... oy.
rick:
I'm sorry if I've ruffled any feathers or overstepped my boundaries, but for the sake of argument:
what would be the price (not cost) for PPS to produce 100 boxes (at a minimum) with each box containing 300 tokens, comprised of 15 pcs. of the 20 unique designs; 19 in brass, 1 in aluminum color, minted in the domestic size so that people on the list would be able to purchase said tokens if we could guarantee you those 100 sales?
Quoted from twinmice:Rick, how about rerunning SC token mechs?
THIS would be great if the token mechs could be available again!!
Quoted from tilt-master:THIS would be great if the token mechs could be available again!!
Maybe try making it a package deal.. a box and a mech for $x..
As far as I know, a quarter mech will work - just need to replace the cradle and spread the magnet slightly.
Quoted from j_m_:what would be the price (not cost) for PPS to produce 100 boxes (at a minimum) with each box containing 300 tokens, comprised of 15 pcs. of the 20 unique designs; 19 in brass, 1 in aluminum color, minted in the domestic size so that people on the list would be able to purchase said tokens if we could guarantee you those 100 sales?
I'm sorry guys (and gals), but unless rick chimes in again, it sounds like this is dead in the water.
the long and short of it is that even at 100 boxes, it would not generate enough money for him (rick) to make it worth his while
Quoted from j_m_:I'm sorry guys (and gals), but unless rick chimes in again, it sounds like this is dead in the water.
the long and short of it is that even at 100 boxes, it would not generate enough money for him (rick) to make it worth his while
j_m_. Appreciate your attempt to make this happen. Thank you. 
I still put in the offset of having our own minted. (Of course, would have to look into pricing and die cost..)
Quoted from j_m_:I'm sorry guys (and gals), but unless rick chimes in again, it sounds like this is dead in the water.
the long and short of it is that even at 100 boxes, it would not generate enough money for him (rick) to make it worth his while
We all appreciate your efforts and we all understand the issues with the IP holder.
I still think we should consider having our own tokens minted with generic bank robbery artwork that does not infringe and see how low we could get a run made. I'm going to be asking around with token people at G2E in Vegas in September.
Quoted from TigerLaw:We all appreciate your efforts and we all understand the issues with the IP holder.
I still think we should consider having our own tokens minted with generic bank robbery artwork that does not infringe and see how low we could get a run made. I'm going to be asking around with token people at G2E in Vegas in September.
cool. according to this, a u.s. half dollar has the following dimensions (which I believe is equivalent to the domestic token size):
diameter 30.61 mm (1.205 in)
thickness 2.15 mm (0.085 in)
Quoted from j_m_:cool. according to this, a u.s. half dollar has the following dimensions (which I believe is equivalent to the domestic token size):
diameter 30.61 mm (1.205 in)
thickness 2.15 mm (0.085 in)
International size - they couldn't mint that size here int he US *because* it was too close to the half-dollar size. That's why the sizes were different.
Quoted from Coyote:International size - they couldn't mint that size here int he US *because* it was too close to the half-dollar size. That's why the sizes were different.
Gotcha, makes sense. What is the size of the domestic and what material composition is it made from?
Quoted from TigerLaw:We all appreciate your efforts and we all understand the issues with the IP holder.
I still think we should consider having our own tokens minted with generic bank robbery artwork that does not infringe and see how low we could get a run made. I'm going to be asking around with token people at G2E in Vegas in September.
what if you made a limited batch and made them very, very, very similar the real ones. then distribute them only to the people on the list. what's the worst that could happen? a one and done run and they'll all be gone before you get sent a cease & desist letter.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Gotcha, makes sense. What is the size of the domestic and what material composition is it made from?
Both types were standard brass (brass nickle for the 'chrome' token) - same as standard .900 or .984 tokens. Nothing strange there. I assume that the 'bronzed' tokens just had some coating over them - they were otherwise the same, metal-wise.
Quoted from SilverBallz:what if you made a limited batch and made them very, very, very similar the real ones. then distribute them only to the people on the list. what's the worst that could happen? a one and done run and they'll all be gone before you get sent a cease & desist letter.
Problem is, we don't have the dies. A die is about $250 to make, when ordering a set Qty of tokens. Since we need top and bottom, that's $500 right there, before any tokens are made. I do not think even PPS has the original dies. (If they did, they can't find them and wouldn't help us even if they did, IMHO.) So with 20 designs, you're looking at 21 dies. (20 obverses, 1 reverse - that's $5250 right there!)
On the other hand, I DO have a graphic artist who has offered his services to design a front and back, if we want to go the custom route!
Edit to add - those diameters are also non-standard, so there may be a set-up fee for a custom diameter token.
Just throwing this out there, but do you really need to do a complete set? I mean, obviously it would be cool, but if it's not having any vs having a set with a few designs (much lower setup costs) then the latter seems like the better option.
Quick follow up -
The biggest hurdle may be finging a mint that will do those sizes. (Or even one of them.) The mint I had used in the past can't do anything but the more standard sizes, which is NOT the domestic / international sizes.
Aurich - Yeah, I was leaning towards doing only one or two designs.
Quoted from Coyote:Quick follow up -
The biggest hurdle may be finging a mint that will do those sizes. (Or even one of them.) The mint I had used in the past can't do anything but the more standard sizes, which is NOT the domestic / international sizes.
S. Korea or China may be the answer then.
Im not remotely familiar with the laws on manufacturing tokens...but I do note their are rounds made that are identical in size to American Gold Eagles (which are technically legal currency with a face value...) so I'm not sure what the difference would be legally.
Quoted from Coyote:Aurich - Yeah, I was leaning towards doing only one or two designs.
Me too. If we make them ourselves we should only do a couple designs.
Is anyone aware if Suzo Happ still makes the token mech? If not what are the specs? If so couldn't it be ordered directly from them?
Quoted from SilverBallz:what if you made a limited batch and made them very, very, very similar the real ones. then distribute them only to the people on the list. what's the worst that could happen? a one and done run and they'll all be gone before you get sent a cease & desist letter.
Yea, I wouldn't do that or recommend anyone else to do that either. IP should be respected.
I do think we can easily create our own tokens with modified artwork (with maybe two or three different bank robbery themed designs). I've now spoken with a couple posters in this thread over the phone.
I'm going to spend some time on this project at G2E in about six weeks in Vegas and will report back. Perhaps the we can get some help with the artwork issue.
Quoted from underlord:Special Pinside tokens! Now that would be 'insider' cool!
I was thinking that would be great on the Safe Cracker side of the coin. Might somewhat limit our audience though.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Yea, I wouldn't do that or recommend anyone else to do that either. IP should be respected.
I do think we can easily create our own tokens with modified artwork (with maybe two or three different bank robbery themed designs). I've now spoken with a couple posters in this thread over the phone.
I'm going to spend some time on this project at G2E in about six weeks in Vegas and will report back. Perhaps the we can get some help with the artwork issue.
Okay, I'll stop trying to help. Good luck! I'll be in for some!
Quoted from Coyote:Okay, I'll stop trying to help. Good luck! I'll be in for some!
I'm going to need help!!! I'm excited about this project.
I could possibly help with some of the 3d modelling / cad ??? If someone could do the graphics in line art and then I can assist from that point
Quoted from j_m_:I'm sorry guys (and gals), but unless rick chimes in again, it sounds like this is dead in the water.
the long and short of it is that even at 100 boxes, it would not generate enough money for him (rick) to make it worth his while
Does this mean you're not going to update the list anymore? Or did I not fill out my request properly? I think updating the list is important, even if just to show anyone else considering doing this project, how many might be interested.
Joe (joemagiera at ameritech dot net)
[email protected]
Quoted from bemmett:I'm in if done.
I really want to find a new set of these back box decals more than anything. Would like these remade more than anything right now!
image.jpg
I just received my decals from here :
Contacted Hoffman Mint..
1.180" [29.972mm] (.005" [.127mm] larger than the standard Domestic, .01" [.254mm] smaller than the standard International size) tokens are priced as follows -
Dies - start at $195 / ea
Setup Fee - $150 (if we order less than 5000 on the first order)
Price ea token @ 1000 - $.382
Price ea token @ 5000 - $.257
--
Say two designs, 1000 of each token -
Dies - $585
Fee - $150
Tokens - 2x $382
Nickle (silver) plating - $30 / 1000 tokens
So, total would be:
$1117 or $1.117 per token.
--Mike
Hoffman is a great company,
Here is a Chinese Company, that exhibits at IAPPA, and in a few projects I looked into were quite favorable.
http://www.yuehuatoken.com/producttype.asp
Generic work likely best, like mentioned.
Art
Quoted from Coyote:Contacted Hoffman Mint..
1.180" [29.972mm] (.005" [.127mm] larger than the standard Domestic, .01" [.254mm] smaller than the standard International size) tokens are priced as follows -
Dies - start at $195 / ea
Setup Fee - $150 (if we order less than 5000 on the first order)
Price ea token @ 1000 - $.382
Price ea token @ 5000 - $.257
--
Say two designs, 1000 of each token -
Dies - $585
Fee - $150
Tokens - 2x $382
Nickle (silver) plating - $30 / 1000 tokens
So, total would be:
$1117 or $1.117 per token.
--Mike
sounds cool.
surely this wont contravene any (PPS) copyright.
for those of you that have sent me pm's regarding being put on the list. as you may (or may not) have noticed, this project is basically dead in the water due to a number of factors.
please refrain from sending me any further pm's asking to be put on a list for official tokens that are not going to be made. and while I applaud TigerLaw for seeing where this may go further down the line with the possibility of producing something else that is feasible, it will not be me that is leading this charge.
"a number of factors"... i just wonder .....
all these creative people.... and the excitement... up in smoke.
if you bothered to read my entire email, I'm referring to getting the official tokens reproduced. it's all well and good that TigerLaw is going to potentially per sue another avenue with non-official (or licensed) tokens.
as the shark tank sharks would say, "I'm out"
Sana'a
We could just buy the International sets and shrink them:
http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/shrinkergallery.html
I did not know this was a thing until I started searching for a way to reduce the size of a coin.
1 month later
València
If I understand well (I'm not fluent with English) it seems that there are a lot of international tokens still available.
But... where are they for sale? Or will they be for sale in PPS website in the near future when they put order in their stock?
Does someone know how this set looks like and how many tokens it includes?
http://provider1.cart.net.au/epages/mrpinballtrial.sf/secfe71c2ff0a/?ObjectPath=/Shops/mrpinballtrial/Products/SCANTIQUESET
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Montréal, QC
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