(Topic ID: 328734)

Rush Node Board 10 issues list and research

By Jamesays

1 year ago


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  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by mbwalker
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“Rush/Godzilla Node Board 10 issues and Non issues list”

  • Rush LE/Premium with issues 69 votes
    35%
  • Rush LE/Premium no issues 123 votes
    62%
  • 3 votes
    2%
  • 2 votes
    1%

(Multiple choice - 197 votes by 195 Pinsiders)

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There are 1,601 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 33.
#401 1 year ago
Quoted from ian866:

Just had it confirmed that the price of this node board has been pushed up to $300 from $175. I have no other comment to make

People need these because of shoddy work on the production line and maybe poor planning.This is an added Nut Kick.

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#402 1 year ago

Why not $1000, $2000, $3000 ? Its only money!!! Wonder how RUSH feels about their fans getting bait/switched by a product with their name plastered on it. Would be interesting to know.

#403 1 year ago
Quoted from ian866:

Just had it confirmed that the price of this node board has been pushed up to $300 from $175. I have no other comment to make

Did the US pharmaceutical companies get involved in the node board business?

#404 1 year ago
Quoted from gandamack:

Did the US pharmaceutical companies get involved in the node board business?

If Stern had any scruples, they'd have set up a deal with a distributor / supplier to offer them at cost to anyone who can supply proof of ownership until a solution is forthcoming.

It's then up to the owner if they want to jump in and replace it before something is offered as a warranty part. No cost to Stern until they come up with a resolution.

#405 1 year ago
Quoted from ian866:

If Stern had any scruples, they'd have set up a deal with a distributor / supplier to offer them at cost to anyone who can supply proof of ownership until a solution is forthcoming.
It's then up to the owner if they want to jump in and replace it before something is offered as a warranty part. No cost to Stern until they come up with a resolution.

Never going to happen. Why? Because when offered something 'if you need it' -- the masses go and grab it even if they don't now 'just in case' and other jump in to exploit it and sell it, etc. This is how we end up with people selling playfields they got as warranty replacements, etc. The companies know so many will demand stuff they don't actually need or will use.

What we see here is (unfortunately) the standard MO for Stern and defects like this. They honor warranty claims for the first people, until they start realizing it's a trend... then usually responses dry up... and then nothing... nothing... nothing... nothing... and then one day they will have a full 'kit' available. And then we fight between if we contact Stern for it, or if Stern tries to use the distributors as the point of order/distribution.

Stern doesn't like shipping solutions until they are a complete package...

The fact you are out there with a 'potential' issue doesn't really change anything. The fact you are out there with a 'dead' game, really doesn't change anything if they aren't shipping that part.

This is life with Stern.

#406 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Never going to happen. Why? Because when offered something 'if you need it' -- the masses go and grab it even if they don't now 'just in case' and other jump in to exploit it and sell it, etc.

To be honest, I was initially pissed off at you for this post. Then I read it again and felt that it is a well written post with valid points. A case of "don't shoot the messenger." Thanks for the information. It confirms what I felt, but have difficulty accepting.

#407 1 year ago
Quoted from gandamack:

To be honest, I was initially pissed off at you for this post. Then I read it again and felt that it is a well written post with valid points. A case of "don't shoot the messenger." Thanks for the information. It confirms what I felt, but have difficulty accepting.

Did you sell your premium?

#408 1 year ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Did you sell your premium?

Yes.... and I miss it. My heart is still in this particular thread because it is an awesome community and I really want Stern to make good on this issue.

#409 1 year ago
Quoted from gandamack:

Yes.... and I miss it. My heart is still in this particular thread because it is an awesome community and I really want Stern to make good on this issue.

It may not be proper but it makes sense to me that owners threads are for current *and* past owners but maybe that's not the way pinside structure is supposed to work. Obviously this isn't that thread but just sayin' that to me, once in the club always in the club, and especially when it comes to Rush !
Hope you get back in it, either with another pre or snag a pro if you can lower yourself. Lol jk. You know the deal.

#410 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Never going to happen. Why? Because when offered something 'if you need it' -- the masses go and grab it even if they don't now 'just in case' and other jump in to exploit it and sell it, etc. This is how we end up with people selling playfields they got as warranty replacements, etc. The companies know so many will demand stuff they don't actually need or will use.
What we see here is (unfortunately) the standard MO for Stern and defects like this. They honor warranty claims for the first people, until they start realizing it's a trend... then usually responses dry up... and then nothing... nothing... nothing... nothing... and then one day they will have a full 'kit' available. And then we fight between if we contact Stern for it, or if Stern tries to use the distributors as the point of order/distribution.
Stern doesn't like shipping solutions until they are a complete package...
The fact you are out there with a 'potential' issue doesn't really change anything. The fact you are out there with a 'dead' game, really doesn't change anything if they aren't shipping that part.
This is life with Stern.

Totally understand where you are coming from, the main reason I backed out of buying a Bond LE !

#411 1 year ago

1)Does anyone know what is really going on ?
2) Is RUSH the most complicated pinball machine ever created?
3) Is Rush Sterns first attempt at a pinball machine with a moving ramp?
4) Is everyone at Stern on Vacation/Tropical Island somewhere?
5) Americans put a man on the Moon in 1969 but Americans can’t fix a pinball machine in 2023 ?
6) Hard to understand what is taking 11-months to figure out?

#412 1 year ago
Quoted from gandamack:

To be honest, I was initially pissed off at you for this post. Then I read it again and felt that it is a well written post with valid points. A case of "don't shoot the messenger." Thanks for the information. It confirms what I felt, but have difficulty accepting.

Yes, it's not meant to justify their behavior - just manage expectations. This is what they do, and no one has changed them and the latest issue like this isn't going to magically create a big pivot for them. People are still buying everything they can put out.

Imagine being an operator who is losing out on thousands of dollars a month while a game sits dead waiting for parts only Stern can deliver. This is the world we are in these days :/

The good news for this thread is if you aren't already blown up, we know what to look for now, and there are reasonable ways to prevent the failure. We can rest easy that Stern will address it, we just can't waste our energy on sweating 'when' or getting something intermediate. If you really are concerned, be proactive and take the easy step to eliminate the weakest link (connector and or damaged wires).

#413 1 year ago
Quoted from MJK-911:

1)Does anyone know what is really going on ?
2) Is RUSH the most complicated pinball machine ever created?
3) Is Rush Sterns first attempt at a pinball machine with a moving ramp?
4) Is everyone at Stern on Vacation/Tropical Island somewhere?
5) Americans put a man on the Moon in 1969 but Americans can’t fix a pinball machine in 2023 ?
6) Hard to understand what is taking 11-months to figure out?

Fix your connectors. Install new node 10 board if yours is fried. Done. Yeah, hard to get a new node 10 - Stern should prioritize making more, and it is concerning that they haven't.

#414 1 year ago

My digi-key order came in so I was able to repin my connector and also heat shrink the spots where the zip ties broke the insulation.
A033F4E1-48FD-479D-9255-DC3D119F3C09 (resized).jpegA033F4E1-48FD-479D-9255-DC3D119F3C09 (resized).jpeg929E4912-177F-4B08-BC0E-CEB11DAAB787 (resized).jpeg929E4912-177F-4B08-BC0E-CEB11DAAB787 (resized).jpeg
You can see how bad the original crimps are.

42891A6F-52B4-44B3-8A6D-18EE47F0C2C4 (resized).jpeg42891A6F-52B4-44B3-8A6D-18EE47F0C2C4 (resized).jpeg
#415 1 year ago

I was on the Marco notify list for the Node 10 board, and was able to grab one on Friday when Marco briefly had them in stock (11:45 AM PDT email, ~12:45 PM order). Sorry that I didn't get a chance to post here on Friday, but had multiple things going on and barely got my order in. Luckily it was still $200.

I've blown 2 Node 10 boards (already documented earlier in this thread). I've already got a Titan ring set. I'm going to order the NinjaCamp mods today: inner loop, shooter lane, VUK, scoops, maybe spinner, maybe loop light replicator. Them I'll install everything while giving Stern a chance to provide a final solution. If the final warranty kit is not available when I'm done, then I'll rewire from the motors and remove the molex connector(s). I'll investigate the clock motor wires when I have playfield elements disassembled for rings and protectors.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/520-5781-02

#416 1 year ago

Whoops, thought I was just adding a pic but it reposted.

#417 1 year ago
Quoted from ian866:

Just to be clear, you'd removed the connectors but the cable ties are still in place ?

Correct. Several hours of play after the connector was removed, and more the next day. I was playing a bunch since it was so nice not having to worry anymore, or so I thought.

But I left the zip ties on the motor leads, assuming that any damage was already done there, and if not, we would see, and see we did! Although I doubt it would have made a difference in the long run...

Quoted from Peak-Pin:

If your Node 10 is still good, then maybe the motor wires themselves are the issue... maybe the wires are truly broken. You can check using an ohm meter. With power off and motor unplugged from node board, you should measure 9.2 ohms between the red and blue wires and 9.2 ohms between the black and green.

Sorry it took me so long to check, but maybe this is worth the wait!: The wires are NOT broken! Both sides still measure about 10 ohms from the board connector.

And my Node 10 board is still alive and flashing, which explains the game not complaining. Apparently just the motor driver chip got toasted, I figure from gradually overloading due to those stretched, not quite broken wires.

I suppose everyone removing the overtightened zip ties would relieve the pressure on the insulation and smoosh the stretched wires back together some, but I'm afraid that would only be forestalling the inevitable. Now I really think the thing to do is to cut the motor leads off entirely from the first zip tie on, and splice in new wires.

If it is true that the clock uses the same motor and they are also zip tied too hard, logically the same thing would be prudent for it as well. Yay!

PXL_20230212_052355589 (resized).jpgPXL_20230212_052355589 (resized).jpg
#418 1 year ago

Some basic physics may be relevant here. Induced current (induction) is a function of current rise (amps/second) and distance (meters). A quick, sharp pulse on a wire close to another conductor can induce a current. This falls off as the cube of the distance, so it's very sensitive to things like crushed insulation. Wires in close proximity (via crushed insulation under a tight zip tie) are considerably more prone to stray currents.

The ramp motor is driving a considerably higher load than the clock and hence, surely has higher current loads. Its possible that stray currents from this kludged assembly produce issues with the motor drive chip if the wires are too-close. This is just speculation, but would explain why you might see problems with tight zip ties even after you've confirmed that resistance is nominal.

Just a thought.

#419 1 year ago
Quoted from DiabloRush:

Some basic physics may be relevant here. Induced current (induction) is a function of current rise (amps/second) and distance (meters). A quick, sharp pulse on a wire close to another conductor can induce a current. This falls off as the cube of the distance, so it's very sensitive to things like crushed insulation. Wires in close proximity (via crushed insulation under a tight zip tie) are considerably more prone to stray currents.
The ramp motor is driving a considerably higher load than the clock and hence, surely has higher current loads. Its possible that stray currents from this kludged assembly produce issues with the motor drive chip if the wires are too-close. This is just speculation, but would explain why you might see problems with tight zip ties even after you've confirmed that resistance is nominal.
Just a thought.

DiabloRush Can you envision a way to install "snubbing" diodes?
--
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#420 1 year ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

DiabloRush Can you envision a way to install "snubbing" diodes?

In short, no. Not without seeing the internals of the motor drive chip. From an electronics standpoint, these are RLC (resistance, inductance, capacitance) circuits. There's well established means to tune these circuits for specific effects, like fast rise times or low induced currents. You'd have to look at these as a system (motor drive, cabling, and motor) in order to properly design this circuit. In theory, the chip designer has already done this. Clearly, Stern did not follow best practice and left various protection elements out of their design. They'll have to engineer an ultimate fix. Until then, we can apply common sense and ensure 1) that the motor connection is solid, and 2) try to limit noise/induced currents. Suggestions above serve both of these goals.

#421 1 year ago
Quoted from DanQverymuch:

Correct. Several hours of play after the connector was removed, and more the next day. I was playing a bunch since it was so nice not having to worry anymore, or so I thought.
But I left the zip ties on the motor leads, assuming that any damage was already done there, and if not, we would see, and see we did! Although I doubt it would have made a difference in the long run...

Sorry it took me so long to check, but maybe this is worth the wait!: The wires are NOT broken! Both sides still measure about 10 ohms from the board connector.
And my Node 10 board is still alive and flashing, which explains the game not complaining. Apparently just the motor driver chip got toasted, I figure from gradually overloading due to those stretched, not quite broken wires.
I suppose everyone removing the overtightened zip ties would relieve the pressure on the insulation and smoosh the stretched wires back together some, but I'm afraid that would only be forestalling the inevitable. Now I really think the thing to do is to cut the motor leads off entirely from the first zip tie on, and splice in new wires.
If it is true that the clock uses the same motor and they are also zip tied too hard, logically the same thing would be prudent for it as well. Yay!
[quoted image]

You've got a smoking gun there, please don't cut the leads or zip ties off. Remove the motor and send it to someone who can test it as is ( insulation resistance, impedance etc ). It's possible there is a short being created under those ties and it could be found by measuring it accurately.
Alternatively, the current draw could be measured by someone with an appropriate driver set.

#422 1 year ago

Package arrived from Stern today, new node board and Time Machine ramp motor kit..so they are getting them out.

Couple of things, Pins in the connector look better. Zip ties still too tight to be able to slide them on the wire, I removed them but no crushing. Also, the part number for the ramp motor is different on the packing slip vs what is in the manual, maybe the changed something with the stepper motors?

26903697-A4CB-4918-BF87-E9C6A8FDBF19 (resized).jpeg26903697-A4CB-4918-BF87-E9C6A8FDBF19 (resized).jpeg78B3CC4D-E427-496C-94DA-B0641B66589A (resized).jpeg78B3CC4D-E427-496C-94DA-B0641B66589A (resized).jpeg
#423 1 year ago
Quoted from OSUBuckeye98:

Package arrived from Stern today, new node board and Time Machine ramp motor kit..so they are getting them out.
Couple of things, Pins in the connector look better. Zip ties still too tight to be able to slide them on the wire, I removed them but no crushing. Also, the part number for the ramp motor is different on the packing slip vs what is in the manual, maybe the changed something with the stepper motors?
[quoted image][quoted image]

It possibly denotes which position it is intended to be used in ( ramp or clock ) as they have different connectors and length of wire. The tape on the body is odd / new, maybe to prevent a short with the light it fouls on.

What are the sticker details on the motor body showing ?

#424 1 year ago

Maybe, but they ramp motor and clock motor have the same part number in the manual. Actually, in my warranty claim they had an order for a “drum clock motor with harness” because of the photos I submitted were crushed wires leading to the drum.

CE243214-138E-4A3F-85B0-54D553724636 (resized).jpegCE243214-138E-4A3F-85B0-54D553724636 (resized).jpeg
#425 1 year ago
Quoted from OSUBuckeye98:

Maybe, but they ramp motor and clock motor have the same part number in the manual. Actually, in my warranty claim they had an order for a “drum clock motor with harness” because of the photos I submitted were crushed wires leading to the drum.
[quoted image]

That's the standard LIN motor that's used but now with a piece of tape on it.

#426 1 year ago

Tape is only on the one side for what it’s worth.

#427 1 year ago
Quoted from OSUBuckeye98:

Tape is only on the one side for what it’s worth.

To stop this from shorting probably

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#428 1 year ago
Quoted from OSUBuckeye98:

Package arrived from Stern today, new node board and Time Machine ramp motor kit..so they are getting them out.
Couple of things, Pins in the connector look better. Zip ties still too tight to be able to slide them on the wire, I removed them but no crushing. Also, the part number for the ramp motor is different on the packing slip vs what is in the manual, maybe the changed something with the stepper motors?
[quoted image][quoted image]

I too received this package today! Interestingly, my new ramp motor doesn't have any zip ties, but it definitely has more appropriate pins

IMG_2719 (resized).JPGIMG_2719 (resized).JPG
IMG_2722 (resized).JPGIMG_2722 (resized).JPG
IMG_2723 (resized).JPGIMG_2723 (resized).JPG
IMG_2725 (resized).JPGIMG_2725 (resized).JPG

#429 1 year ago
Quoted from ian866:

To stop this from shorting probably
[quoted image]

That might a good area, to use some fish paper, now I just have to figure out what I did with it.

#430 1 year ago

But is this a true fix? I thought the wires were too small diameter ?

#431 1 year ago
Quoted from SterlingRush:

That might a good area, to use some fish paper, now I just have to figure out what I did with it.

I just slipped a piece of heat shrink in there, doesn't move the gap is so small.

#432 1 year ago
Quoted from Hayfarmer:

But is this a true fix? I thought the wires were too small diameter ?

The true fix is to add the protection circuitry to the node board. I'm hopeful that will come eventually.

Quoted from ian866:

To stop this from shorting probably
[quoted image]

I never noticed that. It's something I'd definitely fix.

#433 1 year ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

Lets get it done STERN

Quoted from OSUBuckeye98:

Package arrived from Stern today, new node board and Time Machine ramp motor kit..so they are getting them out.
Couple of things, Pins in the connector look better. Zip ties still too tight to be able to slide them on the wire, I removed them but no crushing. Also, the part number for the ramp motor is different on the packing slip vs what is in the manual, maybe the changed something with the stepper motors?

What about the node side of the connector? On mine, both sides of the connector have rolled pins. Unless both sides are the correct pins, then the problem persists.

IMG_3285(Edited) (resized).jpgIMG_3285(Edited) (resized).jpg
#434 1 year ago

I know, right? I bypassed the connector completely and soldered the wires together a while ago, so I have not installed anything.

Quoted from Ten31:

What about the node side of the connector? On mine, both sides of the connector have rolled pins. Unless both sides are the correct pins, then the problem persists.[quoted image]

#435 1 year ago
Quoted from Ten31:

What about the node side of the connector? On mine, both sides of the connector have rolled pins. Unless both sides are the correct pins, then the problem persists.[quoted image]

The wire on the node side is 24 gauge, so those pins are okay for that (the motor has 26 gauge). I'd still extract the pins and make sure the insulation is not crimped under the center part of the pin. I'd also extract the pins at CN1 and CN3 and do the same. I've found insulation under the center part on at least one of each connector across 4 or 5 Rush machines.

#436 1 year ago

Just got mine today
June 23, 2023 build date. Both sides of the connectors look to be equally bad. Peak-pin says that's ok on the node board side so I assume that's ok but I"ll just solder them directly as none of my molex extraction tools are small enough for that, and why risk it.

rush-node10 (resized).JPGrush-node10 (resized).JPG
#437 1 year ago
Quoted from brzezicki:

Just got mine today
June 23, 2023 build date. Both sides of the connectors look to be equally bad. Peak-pin says that's ok on the node board side so I assume that's ok but I"ll just solder them directly as none of my molex extraction tools are small enough for that, and why risk it.
[quoted image]

How did You get it back to feb 2023

#438 1 year ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

How did You get it back to feb 2023

lol. good catch.

#439 1 year ago
Quoted from brzezicki:

Just got mine today
June 23, 2023 build date. Both sides of the connectors look to be equally bad.

That sucks this isn't going to be fixed until sometime after June.

#440 1 year ago

Got the new motor and node board 10. Trying to swap the motor today and having a helluva time getting the drive shaft out of the ramp gear. Getting the four screws out was a challenge as well but using a short screwdriver allowed enough space to access all four. Is there something other than the four screws which must be removed? Thanks for any help!

20230226_161709 (resized).jpg20230226_161709 (resized).jpg20230226_161645 (resized).jpg20230226_161645 (resized).jpg
#441 1 year ago

Loosen the screw in the ramp arm? The black hex screw.

#442 1 year ago
Quoted from mjannusch:

Loosen the screw in the ramp arm? The black hex screw.

Thanks! You were exactly right. I never saw it on the schematic and didn't notice on the top of the shaft. You're a lifesaver...

#443 1 year ago

Unbelievable nothing has been mailed from Stern after 11-months of a broken ass game!!! The online bashing continues on every social media page i can find!! What a shit way to treat people that have spent almost $200,000.00 in the past 2.5 years on NIB Stern Pinball Machines. I see people getting a new ramp motor? great what if its the clock? Another blown $200 board, iam out $600 so far, can’t wait to visit Gomez soon at TPF!!!! Gomez knowingly admitted they screwed up, FIX IT!!!!!!! My dog wants her rubber ball back!!!!

9E4496B5-D02B-4AD4-A75C-9BD4773D881C (resized).jpeg9E4496B5-D02B-4AD4-A75C-9BD4773D881C (resized).jpeg

#444 1 year ago

does anyone know if they are replacing all of the premium/le's with new motors and cables or just those who have already burned up?

I'd think as they seem to cheap out on things they would only replace the ones already "bad" however I can just see someone's house burning down and and Stern getting sued for not replacing something known to burn up.

#445 1 year ago
Quoted from brzezicki:

does anyone know if they are replacing all of the premium/le's with new motors and cables or just those who have already burned up?

Stern never does a 'replace everyones' - It's a "contact us for a kit" model and depending on the kind of issue they decide if you must qualify or not. Odds are for this situation, unless you can show your game is flawed, they aren't going to send you a kit. Stern may have a date range they will consider, or may require proof of failure, etc. Expect to need to prove your game is impacted.

#446 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Stern never does a 'replace everyones' - It's a "contact us for a kit" model and depending on the kind of issue they decide if you must qualify or not. Odds are for this situation, unless you can show your game is flawed, they aren't going to send you a kit. Stern may have a date range they will consider, or may require proof of failure, etc. Expect to need to prove your game is impacted.

But if you have an LE, they'd all be bad, right? And not replacing would cost more because they'd have to replace the Node board?

#447 1 year ago
Quoted from Fezmid:

But if you have an LE, they'd all be bad, right?

Unknown - not all games have had the issue. Just many games. LEs were built before premiums and we have a premium from the start that hasn't had an issue.

#448 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Unknown - not all games have had the issue. Just many games. LEs were built before premiums and we have a premium from the start that hasn't had an issue.

I will second this, I have a friend with a premium and two others with LEs and all three games have been fine so far. And my routed pro is rock solid too!

#449 1 year ago
Quoted from PinballHaven:

. And my routed pro is rock solid too!

Natural immunity

#450 1 year ago

Somewhere I read that I should let my distributor know my node board has fried, so I'll be needing the fix, so I have done this and they "put me on the list."

Should I call Stern directly as well?

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