(Topic ID: 328734)

Rush Node Board 10 issues list and research

By Jamesays

1 year ago


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  • 1,610 posts
  • 171 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by Dipsy
  • Topic is favorited by 110 Pinsiders

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“Rush/Godzilla Node Board 10 issues and Non issues list”

  • Rush LE/Premium with issues 69 votes
    35%
  • Rush LE/Premium no issues 123 votes
    62%
  • 3 votes
    2%
  • 2 votes
    1%

(Multiple choice - 197 votes by 195 Pinsiders)

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There are 1,610 posts in this topic. You are on page 17 of 33.
#801 11 months ago
Quoted from MJK-911:

Here we go again- Iam one of the original Owners to report a Node-10 failure 2- years ago, I had 25 plays when it happened, it took a 1-1/2 years and over $1000 in Node boards before Stern finally sent a new Ramp Motor that doesn’t have the connection in tbe middlie. I installed the new motor/node board everything has worked fine for the past 6- months. I barely play the game much because of other newer games in my collection, but last night I went to play Rush Premium and i got the dreaded Node-10 not found!!! Now what

does the chip have the hole in it now?

stern may need to change the game around to use an different type of motor or maybe just an coil pushing it up.

11
#802 11 months ago

I tell you about my experience with the node 10 board and I hope it helps. I bought a new RUSH LE in December 2022. On the second day of play the node 10 board burned out, my dealer gave me a new board and a new motor for the ramp that I connected directly to the board, also on the second day it burned out. I had to wait almost two months to receive a new node 10 board and another motor to also change the clock. Before putting this last plate and the new motor of the clock I observed in the old motor of the clock that moving the minute hand with my hand did not go completely smooth, that is, in one area it had some friction, when I put the new motor I saw that it was doing the same thing from the clock, I solved it by putting three washers that separated the motor from the part where it fitted, with this I got it to have no brakes and to be fluid and uniform. On the other hand, when I connected the two pins of the two motors to the node 10 board, I put hot glue on it so that they could not move. I also reviewed all the pinball connectors and although it may be bullshit I realized that when the ramp went up it pulled the side wires of the lights on it but when going down the ramp some of those wires did not always go down and made that motor not work uniform, I put a small weight on these wires below, the right weight so that when the ramp went down they went down at the same time, so the ramp motor had no brake. I don't know if any of these things I did solved the problem but I've been playing almost daily for three months and for the moment the node 10 board is holding up well, the future with this is still worrying but I'm confident that the board will always work well. Excuse my vocabulary, my level of English is small. I love this pinball, for me it is TOP, I would like it not to fail again or that STERN would give the definitive solution.

#803 11 months ago

Could the problem.be solved by the node controlling a relay instead of the motor itself? The relay could send power to the motor so any feedback from motor would not find its way to the node bd?

Games like blackknight use a relay driven by the tip122 transistor to drive the magna dave coils.

Would.be easy to add a relay in this circuit to protect node bd?

#804 11 months ago
Quoted from pinballplusMN:

Could the problem.be solved by the node controlling a relay instead of the motor itself? The relay could send power to the motor so any feedback from motor would not find its way to the node bd?
Games like blackknight use a relay driven by the tip122 transistor to drive the magna dave coils.
Would.be easy to add a relay in this circuit to protect node bd?

It's a stepper motor, not a standard DC motor. There was already a post somewhere where they've already looked at filters and other items to protect against back EMF to protect the board and it didn't make any difference.

#805 11 months ago
Quoted from schudel5:

It's a stepper motor, not a standard DC motor. There was already a post somewhere where they've already looked at filters and other items to protect against back EMF to protect the board and it didn't make any difference.

Good to know. Thanks!

#806 11 months ago

this looks like a similiar board thats driving the score reels on bond 60th?

IMG_4314 (resized).JPGIMG_4314 (resized).JPG

#807 11 months ago

All i can say is WOW!!! WTF is causing this?

IMG_5883 (resized).jpegIMG_5883 (resized).jpeg
#808 11 months ago
Quoted from MJK-911:

All i can say is WOW!!! WTF is causing this?
[quoted image]

Bad design.

#809 11 months ago

I wonder how quickly the chip smokes. Thinking, would it be possible if a thermal sensor was on the chip where if the temperature got too hot it could trigger the interlock to stop the game? If it is really quick to blow then this probably would be too little too late, but if it is a little of a slow burn maybe this could be a saviour... and also give some clue as to the exact timing to when it would want to blow.

#810 11 months ago
Quoted from MJK-911:

All i can say is WOW!!! WTF is causing this?
[quoted image]

That might be the worst one I’ve seen yet.
What is causing it?
There are some theories but nothing solid yet. The only basic thing that might be said is too much current. But why.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
Thank you for checking out the PinWiki - http://www.PinWiki.com/

#811 11 months ago
Quoted from Big_Whoopin:

I wonder how quickly the chip smokes. Thinking, would it be possible if a thermal sensor was on the chip where if the temperature got too hot it could trigger the interlock to stop the game? If it is really quick to blow then this probably would be too little too late, but if it is a little of a slow burn maybe this could be a saviour... and also give some clue as to the exact timing to when it would want to blow.

will need an fuse or thermal fuse right on the node board the interlock / soft kill may be to slow.

#812 11 months ago

I'm new to posting in the Node 10 issue thread (I don't have a Rush pin), but it caught my eye since I'm an electrical engineer. I've read a fair number of posts, but not all - so sorry if I missed something.

Someone mentioned GZ had a similar issue, so I looked up some part numbers.

Seems the stepper motor is also used on JP. Has anyone reported JP pin blowing up node boards?
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

#813 11 months ago

Why is this thread being ignored by the greater community? Anytime someone mentions anything about node board risk, reliability, and replacement availability its shot down as conspirator nonsense. For those having continued problems, do you intend to buy other Spike machines? Do you still trust the overall system and attribute this to a few select titles or has it shaken your confidence in Stern as a whole? Either way, I hope they find a root cause for you guys.

#814 11 months ago

I cant speak for The Guys who have had multiple Node Board 10 failures but for Me I Have had and still have Many Spike 2 games with very little issues save for click gate on Foo Fighters and recent Stern Machines.

#815 11 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

Why is this thread being ignored by the greater community? Anytime someone mentions anything about node board risk, reliability, and replacement availability its shot down as conspirator nonsense. For those having continued problems, do you intend to buy other Spike machines? Do you still trust the overall system and attribute this to a few select titles or has it shaken your confidence in Stern as a whole? Either way, I hope they find a root cause for you guys.

I'm primarily a pro buyer, but I can tell you this thread has me wanting to stay clear of any game with stepper motors controlled by a small node board.

#816 11 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

Why is this thread being ignored by the greater community? Anytime someone mentions anything about node board risk, reliability, and replacement availability its shot down as conspirator nonsense. For those having continued problems, do you intend to buy other Spike machines? Do you still trust the overall system and attribute this to a few select titles or has it shaken your confidence in Stern as a whole? Either way, I hope they find a root cause for you guys.

download (resized).jpgdownload (resized).jpg
#817 11 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

Why is this thread being ignored by the greater community?

I'm more concerned that Stern is just sweeping the issue under the rug, hoping it just goes away on it's own and we all forget about it. If I'm wrong, and Stern does figure out the issue or builds more robust boards with protection, that all LE and Premium owners get one without having to wait for issues to arise.

#818 11 months ago
Quoted from schudel5:

I'm more concerned that Stern is just sweeping the issue under the rug, hoping it just goes away on it's own and we all forget about it. If I'm wrong, and Stern does figure out the issue or builds more robust boards with protection, that all LE and Premium owners get one without having to wait for issues to arise.

I believe that a few people with insider connections have stated that "stern is working on addressing the issue". I'm going to go out on a limb and state that you will not hear anything until they have a viable solution and like the auto manufacturers, this might become a "silent" recall (one, where it is not broadcast and no one knows about it until [someone] sends in a part and what is returned is completely different)

this may be why there have not been any rush premium builds since the middle of last year. my thought is that this is only being addressed because it has started to impact godzilla premium machines (to what degree, I have no idea).

if it is starting to cause issues with their no. 1 cash cow (godzilla premiums), it's an issue that is going to garner more attention

#819 11 months ago
Quoted from j_m_:

if it is starting to cause issues with their no. 1 cash cow (godzilla premiums), it's an issue that is going to garner more attention

Those were my thoughts as well. If that title starts having trouble, it could really shake the overall confidence of their architecture which is something they can't afford. I certainly hope they have their "tiger team" on this so they can get in front of it. It's also my hope that if they find the root cause they will have a recall where the updated parts are shipped to all customers. My gut says neither of those are in play, but that is just pure speculation on my part.

#820 11 months ago

Lol, active imagination

#821 11 months ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Lol, active imagination

at least one customer may have an game in the stern shop for testing.

#822 11 months ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Lol, active imagination

Most of the Tiger Teams I've seen, they've never designed circuitry, and just get in the way of the people who were capable of actually solving the problem.

#823 11 months ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

at least one customer may have an game in the stern shop for testing.

There's a heck of a lot of testing going on then... Or is there? No communicado has me going with fulfilling warranties hoping it'll go away. Unless I information is wrong what I learned here on pinside is that manufacturers rarely admit there are problems So it must be cheaper to just throw parts at people through warranty. I don't know these are my unfounded perceptions...

#824 11 months ago

After 2+ years of Rush Premium being an absolute LEMON, iam happy to say my Distro is going to take it back on trade towards a Venom-LE. I currently have 16-pinball machines and traded away 10-15 in past 4-years, and non of them have ever given me any type of major headaches like this Rush Premium. After everything I have been thru, my 2-cents is the game wasn’t wired correctly, or wasn’t sized properly. Or the cheap motors from China are faulty, but iam on my 3-rd ramp motor. This time iam not plugging the clock into the node board, maybe that motor is faulty? Life is too short to have a LEMON in your collection. Iam not angry, I’am really sad because I actually wanted to keep the game. NEXT!!!! Hopefully Stern will make it again with a fix!! I can only hope!!!

#825 11 months ago
Quoted from MJK-911:

I’am really sad because I actually wanted to keep the game.

If you love it, the pro on this title is excellent.

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#826 11 months ago

Do we know if later build games (such as the July 2023 run of Godzilla premiums) have this issue eliminated or are less prone to exhibiting it?

#827 11 months ago
Quoted from Vespula:

Lol, active imagination

Tiger team could be as little as a couple of their lead engineers reviewing the design, mechs, and associated boards. There was a post further back stating a couple of units were sent back. I would assume someone is assigned to that project. That term is used a lot in my industry and there is nothing extreme implied by using it.

#828 11 months ago

All I'm saying is the lack of action and zero communication FOR A LONG TIME lends no credibility to said rumor/ existence of a tiger team working on this issue. But I'm sure they're too busy making money and cranking out new titles and moving into their warehouse, so at some point when The alleged tiger team has time to dust off their samples and give a s*** something might actually be produced from somewhere other than Rush owners on pinside.
Because right now all they're doing is sending out random assortment of warranty parts and the boards are still blowing. To me that math is simple, they're not doing anything other than killing production of premium early to mitigate the problem. And fulfilling warranty claims until the warranty clock runs out. They're probably in way over their heads in regards to the abilities to troubleshoot solve and fix this problem.
It was all probably outsourced creating the spike 2 system and would require consulting and outsourcing again to try and solve the problem which was likely created in-house due to lack of knowledge and expertise. Much too expensive to address, much easier to kill production, create some disgruntled customers, some lost forever, but many more new owners coming in then they lose, nothing personal it's just business. And most of them pinball addicts who will probably buy again anyway once they're Grail title is released or the FOMO of a new title takes over and/or enough time has passed since the sting of Rush node 10.
Will they ever get back around to fixing it? Why would they? It's niche. It's a write off. They made a little bit of money but not enough. That's the way it seems, right or wrong in that opinion, that's the way it seems. Would have been interesting in an alternate reality if this had happened to GZ on a similar percentage .
Let's see how this post ages.

#829 11 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

That term is used a lot in my industry and there is nothing extreme implied by using it.

I think 'Tiger Teams' is probably better suited to mid-to-large corporations. Small potatoes like Stern, you probably only have very small group of electrical engineers. i.e. The Tiger Team would be the same people fixing it anyways. And they probably all talk to each other anyways.

One thing not mentioned in the thread is Stern may not have adequate test equipment to chase down some obscure problem.

And if a PWB respin is needed - that's a big problem for a little company.

#830 11 months ago
Quoted from Vespula:

It was all probably outsourced creating the spike 2 system

don't some of the nodes date back to spike 1? and others where new after spike 2 games where out?

#831 11 months ago
Quoted from MJK-911:

Or the cheap motors from China are faulty, but iam on my 3-rd ramp motor. This time iam not plugging the clock into the node board, maybe that motor is faulty?

All this time Stern never had you try a new clock motor, or at least unplug it? That’s crazy.

#832 11 months ago
Quoted from Vespula:

All I'm saying is the lack of action and zero communication FOR A LONG TIME lends no credibility to said rumor/ existence of a tiger team working on this issue. But I'm sure they're too busy making money and cranking out new titles and moving into their warehouse, so at some point when The alleged tiger team has time to dust off their samples and give a s*** something might actually be produced from somewhere other than Rush owners on pinside.
Because right now all they're doing is sending out random assortment of warranty parts and the boards are still blowing. To me that math is simple, they're not doing anything other than killing production of premium early to mitigate the problem. And fulfilling warranty claims until the warranty clock runs out. They're probably in way over their heads in regards to the abilities to troubleshoot solve and fix this problem.
It was all probably outsourced creating the spike 2 system and would require consulting and outsourcing again to try and solve the problem which was likely created in-house due to lack of knowledge and expertise. Much too expensive to address, much easier to kill production, create some disgruntled customers, some lost forever, but many more new owners coming in then they lose, nothing personal it's just business. And most of them pinball addicts who will probably buy again anyway once they're Grail title is released or the FOMO of a new title takes over and/or enough time has passed since the sting of Rush node 10.
Will they ever get back around to fixing it? Why would they? It's niche. It's a write off. They made a little bit of money but not enough. That's the way it seems, right or wrong in that opinion, that's the way it seems. Would have been interesting in an alternate reality if this had happened to GZ on a similar percentage .
Let's see how this post ages.

Go start a pro only thread

#833 11 months ago

true,the pro is not an issue here

#834 11 months ago

Okie, I'll just see myself out..

#835 11 months ago

Is this primarily Rush or is GZ equally impacted? Reading through the threads it seems that Rush is the most impacted. I was planning to wave off Spike games completely, but there is strong pressure from the family on a couple of titles. One would be a NIB GZ prem and the other a HUO TMNT pro. I am not going to lie; my gut screams walk away and that I will eventually come to regret this decision. With that said, I tend to be a half empty cup guy which has left me needlessly on the sidelines missing out due to always fearing the worst.

#836 11 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

Is this primarily Rush or is GZ equally impacted? Reading through the threads it seems that Rush is the most impacted. I was planning to wave off Spike games completely, but there is strong pressure from the family on a couple of titles. One would be a NIB GZ prem and the other a HUO TMNT pro. I am not going to lie; my gut screams walk away and that I will eventually come to regret this decision. With that said, I tend to be a half empty cup guy which has left me needlessly on the sidelines missing out due to always fearing the worst.

I own both GZ LE and Rush LE and have not had (knock wood) any issues so far. As many have posted, it doesn't seem to be all machines, and GZ seems to have very few cases of this issue. Given the cost of these toys, I totally understand not wanting to get stuck with one, but they are two of the best machines, in my opinion!

#837 11 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

Is this primarily Rush or is GZ equally impacted? Reading through the threads it seems that Rush is the most impacted. I was planning to wave off Spike games completely, but there is strong pressure from the family on a couple of titles. One would be a NIB GZ prem and the other a HUO TMNT pro. I am not going to lie; my gut screams walk away and that I will eventually come to regret this decision. With that said, I tend to be a half empty cup guy which has left me needlessly on the sidelines missing out due to always fearing the worst.

TMNT Pro doesn’t have the issue. No servo to control.

#838 11 months ago
Quoted from mjannusch:

All this time Stern never had you try a new clock motor, or at least unplug it? That’s crazy.

They did on ours....node 10 still failed.

#839 11 months ago

Sigh. Just bought an LE with 300 plays and I'm now the third owner. I'm guessing the thing has probably blown up before and been fixed or the owner is just afraid of sitting on a ticking time bomb, hence the great price I got on it. Well, it's my problem now. I guess I should have done my homework. I just didn't think there would be an unsolved issue like this for a machine that's already been out for as long as it has. I hope this gets figured out soon because as of right now I'm afraid to play it.

#840 11 months ago

Play the crap out of it.I would.If it breaks then You can not play it.

#841 11 months ago
Quoted from Paddy-o:

I own both GZ LE and Rush LE and have not had (knock wood) any issues so far. As many have posted, it doesn't seem to be all machines, and GZ seems to have very few cases of this issue. Given the cost of these toys, I totally understand not wanting to get stuck with one, but they are two of the best machines, in my opinion!

I thought about it long and hard today. I am just going to stick to my guns and stay with older machines i.e. SAM era backwards. I don't mind paying for a node board if/when I have a failure outside of warranty. However, not being able to get a node board or someone to repair it is my concern which is happening to others in various threads. It's a shame, but that is too much money to gamble. Its not the end of the world since I am new to pinball and have decades worth of great games to choose from.

#842 11 months ago
Quoted from Retro4Life:

I thought about it long and hard today. I am just going to stick to my guns and stay with older machines i.e. SAM era backwards. I don't mind paying for a node board if/when I have a failure outside of warranty. However, not being able to get a node board or someone to repair it is my concern which is happening to others in various threads. It's a shame, but that is too much money to gamble. Its not the end of the world since I am new to pinball and have decades worth of great games to choose from.

Who knows maybe You grab one next Year after stern sorts this out.

#843 11 months ago
Quoted from Jamesays:

Who knows maybe You grab one next Year after stern sorts this out.

Absolutely.

#844 11 months ago

Hello again team. Let me run something by you fine folks.

So since the help with dip addressing a few pages back, well, that board blew in under two weeks. Stern then sent another, with motors direct wiring, swapped it out for the 5th time, and good to go. For two weeks. Went and checked on it today and no ramp or clock. Imagine my surprise.

There is a new behavior though.

The board itself is still active and recognized. It simply isn’t registering any switch closures so isn’t functioning.

In game specific test. Nothing. Dead.
In active test however both the ramp and drum register home position. Any idea what’s happening here before I get in sterns email box again?

#845 11 months ago
Quoted from Mikedenton49:

Hello again team. Let me run something by you fine folks.
So since the help with dip addressing a few pages back, well, that board blew in under two weeks. Stern then sent another, with motors direct wiring, swapped it out for the 5th time, and good to go. For two weeks. Went and checked on it today and no ramp or clock. Imagine my surprise.
There is a new behavior though.
The board itself is still active and recognized. It simply isn’t registering any switch closures so isn’t functioning.
In game specific test. Nothing. Dead.
In active test however both the ramp and drum register home position. Any idea what’s happening here before I get in sterns email box again?

does the board have any damage on it?

#846 11 months ago
Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

does the board have any damage on it?

No. Still have the pulsing LED and nothing appears to be an issue. I’ve triple checked everything.

2 weeks later
#847 10 months ago

Well no news here for almost 3 weeks,everyone must have been taken care of by Stern ??

#848 10 months ago

Got my kit a month ago, but see no need to install.

#849 10 months ago

Deleted

#850 10 months ago
Quoted from Hayfarmer:

Got my kit a month ago, but see no need to install.

What's the point of having a kit if their is no confirmed fix? If the board does blow, the replacement most likely will too. I don't see why people are getting kits as a backup if this fix isn't reliable.

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