Does stern make their scoops or are they contracted out of house? Be interesting to know the real story

Unless its got really unusual dimensions it seems like one of the scoop protectors cliffy already has in kits for some other recent sterns should fit. Either way enough people have the issue that I'm sure he can make one with the right measurements. Might just be waiting for someone to ask.

I was one of the first on Rush at PHOF and by the end of my 6 games the protector was already getting beat. On my last game walking out (about 3 hours later) balls were getting hung up in the hole it was so bad. There were probably less than 50 plays on it at that point. Crazy how bad those things are.

Can you remove and use 2-3 layers of Mylar until you get a cliffy?

What is causing the damage? The shot in, the eject shot out or both? Does anyone have any slow mo video footage of what is occurring ?

I think its the shape of the hole itself that is the main cause of the deformation. They didn't router the edge nicely, its just a step cut, so the protector has "air" behind it, which makes it weak. I'm not convinced a different protector is going to work much better, but maybe.

I feel like it is a very thin protector, and the front hole is much smaller/narrower than a usual scoop hole. The side scoop doesn't deform as fast. But the ball I think is hitting the protector, then the two side tabs start bending in and stopping the ball. I don't think it is "1" thing but like ^, it is all the things together that are causing this.

So I have not had a chance to check out Rush so can’t say what the issue is. What I can say is protectors have to be thin or it can really effect the ball play. Most Cliffy’s are pretty thi for that reason. Now it sounds like the scoop is small. The scoop on Kiss is small but essential to game play so it takes a beating. The game and with NO factory scoop protector and Cliffy was what I installed. While it worked it took a beating and literally fell apart. The other issue is the Cliffy made the shot very tight. You can make it but a lot more rejects. So there was a second version of the Cliffy that is supposed to be better but it too is showing some wear and is gonna fail eventually. I just got a Mantis protector for it I am gonna install and see how well it works. I have the Mantis protector on my Metallica scoop and almost zero wear and I have had it for years. I am expecting good results with it but time will tell. If the scoop on Rush is small I would think a Mantis style protector would work better. Just my 2 cents.

With the demand and constraints on the stainless markets right now I can understand Stern not getting them delivered and installed until near production. None of the release livestreams showed one. That being said, if anyone says that pinball is easy and can design one without any flaws they probably claim to walk on water as well. in terms of the big picture of this machine as a whole, in the long run this will be resolved and history will show it as a minor issue.

That being said, the scoop is VERY narrow compared to previous scoops on Sterns. The wear on the edges is 100% from the ball entering and hitting the sides. Eject is smooth and forward, front edge shows no wear compared to the sides.

The one at our league location had the metal deformed pretty much after 5 games as the ball had trouble ejecting. Almost immediately wear started on the left edge. We've mylared all the edges on it for now until the fix arrives.

Having examined this up close, two flaws in my mind, and don't think they can address the first one easily:

1) Scoop is too narrow. Can't go back and enlarge the holes of the existing pins.

2) Left and right edges of the metal needs to be u-shaped, wrap around the wood, and fastened on top & bottom of the playfield. The metal Stern used is thick enough, it needs to not move once is place.

Stern is smoking the good stuff if they think route operators are gonna leave the scoop on… home use, maybe? They need to make a few extra playfields for those warranty requests :-p

One of the machines on location has major wear around the scoop with the protector off. The left rear of the scoop and front left and front right have all chipped down to the wood. I don't know what the answer is but if you take that protector off you better do something to stop the damage.

Homy shit youbwerent kidding. Prkbbaly less than 100, maybe 75 plays

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Pinside would absolutely lose their collective shit if Stern did that.

You removed it but you didn't take it off. Got it

Thanks for sharing the info. I'm surprised this didn't come up with Stern's play testing at all???

I had a similar issue with the Cliffy protector I installed on my KISS. Stern's playfields are not all "the same". They have minor differences. In my case the bevel was different than the original Cliffy design and caused the protector to fit very poorly. I noticed there were some KISS pins that had a 90 degree protector on them and asked Cliff if I should use one of those. He said that particular design (one of his earlier designs) broke very quickly due to the underlying bevel. That is what's going on here. Stern should have had Cliff (or Mantis) at least design the protector if not make it for them. As soon as the protector gets a few hits right on the 90 degree angle its gonna flare, fatigue and fail. It needs to hug the bevel and the entire protector needs solid wood underneath for support. Stern was either lazy and threw this on at the last minute or they do not know how to make an effective protector (or both). BTW I ain't routing my playfield.

Is the chipping coming from removing the scoop or from the scoop moving and deformity? I bought met nib and still no marks on field and have never had a scoop. The kiss I bought had no scoop, was vended, and only a tiny wear spot

My scoop is hooped, too - after 2 days. So, frustrating after the amount of $$ I laid out for this brand new machine. Stern says they'll send me a couple of replacement scoops (the same faulty ones) as a temporary measure and says I should tape down the inner metal flaps to the underside. On another note - the literature for the Rush Pro said that Cygnus X-1 (book one and two) would be included as part of the song selections. Cygnus is NOT selectable on my machine. Is the case for others? I've inquired with Stern and they didn't respond. Thanks!

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Both Cygnus cannot be selected when starting a new ball.

Totally out of the blue, but I wonder if a 3D printed snap in replacement with a very slight ramp into the scoop would work? Thicker protective perimeter with a slight ramp for smooth ball transition into the scoop.

Stern said the Cygnus X-1 Book One and Two are included, they didn't say anything about them as song selections. They are being utilized for music for 2 of the wizard modes, which you'll get to if you have a good game.

Wizard Modes
Cygnus X-1: The Voyage
Qualify this Wizard Mode by STARTING all 6 Multiballs:
•Time Machine Multiballs
○Red Barchetta Multiball
○Subdivisions Multiball
○Fly by Night Multiball
•Far Cry Multiball
•Headlong Flight Multiball
•Freewill Multiball
After all 6 are started. This multiball can be started at the Time Machine.
Cygnus X-1: Book 2
Qualify this Wizard Mode by COMPLETING all 6 Core Modes:
•Tom Sawyer
•Working Man
•The Spirit of Radio
•The Big Money
•La Villa Strangiato
•Limelight

This whole thing is ridiculous. My scoop chipped bad with the protector on under 100 plays. They told me to put the protector back on which would mean I'd have to drive 40 miles every day to bend it back. Ridiculous. I've got mylar on it now hoping it will help it from getting worse. The best part is Stern is saying removing the faulty protector voids the warranty. Such bullshit.

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I feel bad for the LE owners. They're going to be so pissed when this happens to their game.

As someone new to Pinside and issues like this, does anyone have a best guess time estimate as to when Stern will have a fix?

They are usually pretty quick at issuing fixes. They might be running into issues with the supply chain shortages. They will do anything in their power to not repair the chipped playfields. My guess is they'll send out a mylar sticker or a protector that covers the damage.

Ya, that's some BS...I sure hope that Stern has people reading these forums and makes this right. I can see things like this catching up with them with a class action if they keep releasing machines with known QC issues

The clear on the playfield is so thing it looks like it just rubbed away. Like it's not even a chip. Just the ball made the playfield ink and clear peel away. It's definitely defective.

That is total bullsh!t. I guess Stern is in a big hurry for funds. It's obvious, they didn't play test this pin. The mechanical engineer totally dropped the ball on this scoop cut-out. A "Cliffy" needs complete contact with surfaces in order to perform well. Why in the hell did Stern put a chamfer/stepped cut on that opening? I think the only way to fix this problem correctly would be a combo Mantis style protector from the underside, with thicker gauge stainless, providing protection on 3 sides of the cut-out. This protection would project up to the playfield surface, eliminating the step. Before this "Mantis" style protection, a "Cliffy would need to be installed. The "Mantis" would slide inside the installed Cliffy. The problem I see with that fix is...#1 the scoop cut-out appears to be pretty narrow, (I'm not sure there would be enough clearance for the stack-up of additional materials for the "Mantis" & Cliffy combo. #2, in order to mount a Mantis style protector....you're going to have problems mounting it to the underside of the playfield due to the mounting bracket on the scoop shot mounting bracket.

Has Stern never produced a game with one of these kinds of scoops before? If so, were there issues with those as well? If their previous games have included this feature with no problems, why wouldn't they just produce the Rush one the same way?

It's cool to read all these creative ideas for a fix, but when I've paid this much loot for a new pinball machine I don't feel it should be my responsibility to monkey around with some solution for a defect and jeopardize the warranty. I feel that Stern should be paying the distributor to come and fix it once a solution is provided. And provide a one-time discount on any future merchandise/purchases wouldn't hurt either.

I was thinking a wedge printed in tpu or nylon that fits clean against the playfield chamfer on one side and 90 degree angle on the opposite side to fit flush against the scoop protector. Figure out the measurements to make one fit perfectly and then print it again scaled up about 5-10% so its tight.

Not a long term fix, but should brace the void under the protector and absorb some of the kintetic energy to keep the existing one from deforming until stern figures out a permafix.

I’m hoping someone can get Kerry at Mantis Amusements access to measure and create one of his scoop protectors.

Ross

Yeah my thought was it could be prototyped in either method, and if it worked could be reproduced from a mold in a more permanent material. A solid / fiberglass reinforced plastic would hold up long term without having to go to metal. I think just trying to replace a crappy cliffy with a better cliffy might not be the answer (or it would be done by now.)

I think they need to have a different cut on the hole in newer production games, but come up with a fix for the early runs

I bet this is what they've done and would explain the extended delay between the first Pros and the LEs that are just shipping now, about a month later.

The scoop hole is already really tight so there isn't a lot of room to add extra/thicker material there without making the shot impossible to hit. Seems like early pros had an oddly routed edge to the scoop that created an air gap behind the protector. Hope somebody will take close up pics of their LE scoop when they arrive. I'll gladly do so but am probably at least a week away from delivery.

Wouldn't creating a scoop protector that fits to the chamfered scoop edge solve the problem?

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I just did in the owners thread, check it out

Here you go

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definitely a different design than before

# of "class action lawsuits" against Stern that have been proposed on pinside: 3,452

# of class action lawsuits that have actually happened against Stern: zero

Thanks for the pics!! Interesting design. Hope it helps!

Seems like a great fix - no new "complex" part to design/test/produce, just two flat metal prongs that can be easily fabricated on site, completely addresses the issue of the ball warping and then destroying the sides of the protector, and it does not make the already narrow hole even narrower.

Pretty clever, actually... I think it'll do the job.

I haven't played the pin yet, but the new design looks like it inhibit side roll-ins in the scoop, (which might be a good thing). The new design looks like it will require a straight in shot from the flippers now.

If you look at where the new design is at the kickout curved lid is already in that place which already blocks shots from the side.

Need to also add the information that the new updated scoop protector itself is made with the proper hardness stainless that the first run pros did not get.

Unfortunately this is the risk you take by getting the first run pros out the door without any public testing but regardless at least the problem is fixed and is taken care of now.

This redesign update is very robust and should not give anybody an issue. Hopefully everybody with those early run pros gets this update quick and in their game up and running properly.

Time will tell if this is a very robust, issue free solution. Here's to hoping that it is.