(Topic ID: 210950)

Ruling Question


By chiefbrody

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Phat_Jay
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 1 year ago

    Situation: Finals of a weekly tournament, last game of the last round, 4 players, on Jackbot. P3 finishes and walks away, p4 comes up, and there is a ball coming down the field. He catches it, and calls for the td. There was no disadvantage to p3 or any other player, and no advantage gained from p4 catching the ball. P4 was directed to drain the ball, it registered and recorded bonus for p3. Technically p4 could have been dq'd - he 'played' another players ball, but the ruling was to play on - no harm, no foul.

    Opinions?

    #2 1 year ago

    If it’s a big deal kind of game with implications: rules are rules. P4 played P3s ball.

    If it’s some local dudes hanging out playing mostly for fun or local bragging rights: live and let live. Bigger things in life to worry about. Everyone do a shot and move on with the night.

    #3 1 year ago

    If it was an IFPA event, P4 should of been dq'd.

    #4 1 year ago

    Ask the mayor

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    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from chiefbrody:

    Technically p4 could have been dq'd - he 'played' another players ball, but the ruling was to play on - no harm, no foul.
    Opinions?

    If it was for ifpa points, p4 is dqed.

    #6 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    If it was for ifpa points, p4 is dqed.

    and maybe p3 if they walked away in a way that intentionally mislead lead p4 that p3 ball was over.

    #7 1 year ago
    Quoted from Joe_Blasi:

    and maybe p3 if they walked away in a way that intentionally mislead lead p4 that p3 ball was over.

    Nope. P3 did nothing wrong. Never touch the machine unless you are 100% certain it’s your turn.

    I guess if P3 told you, the TD, he has been walking away from the game to try and trick people into playing out of turn, then something would need to be done about player three. But I can’t say I’ve ever seen that or heard of anyone doing that.

    #8 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    If it was for ifpa points, p4 is dqed.

    I just want to be clear, if you are using the IFPA/PAPA unified rules, P4 is DQed. However, you can use a different ruleset and still be eligible for WPPRs. You could have a clause "if you come up to the machine and balls are in play and you can't tell who is up, try to cradle up." I don't recommend this, but it doesn't impact ifpa eligibility. IFPA/PAPA rules cannot be fully followed for example if you don't have keys.

    Another well vetted set of rules is the FSPA rules. I don't recommend writing your own from scratch.

    #9 1 year ago

    You cannot PLUNGE another players ball, playing it in the manor you described should not have any effect

    #10 1 year ago
    Quoted from imharrow:

    I just want to be clear, if you are using the IFPA/PAPA unified rules, P4 is DQed. However, you can use a different ruleset and still be eligible for WPPRs. You could have a clause "if you come up to the machine and balls are in play and you can't tell who is up, try to cradle up." I don't recommend this, but it doesn't impact ifpa eligibility. IFPA/PAPA rules cannot be fully followed for example if you don't have keys.
    Another well vetted set of rules is the FSPA rules. I don't recommend writing your own from scratch.

    You’re absolutely right. At the end of the day you can do pretty much whatever you want as a TD. If you typically make rulings that go against these established rule sets, just be very transparent about that, and you’ll be fine.

    Quoted from joefox22:

    You cannot PLUNGE another players ball, playing it in the manor you described should not have any effect

    So if you’re mid ball and walk away from the game, I can step up and play the rest of your ball without an penalty to me? No way. I’d that were allowed there wouldn’t be a single person that would win a tournament on their own. It would be chaos!! Haha

    #11 1 year ago
    Quoted from joefox22:

    You cannot PLUNGE another players ball, playing it in the manor you described should not have any effect

    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    So if you’re mid ball and walk away from the game, I can step up and play the rest of your ball without an penalty to me?

    A player catching the ball and calling for the TD would be fine in our league. They did nothing wrong. However, there was probably no reason to bother catching the ball. P4 would receive a compensation ball if their ball was autolaunched due to a malfunction.

    #12 1 year ago

    No harm no foul, unless it’s a major tourney. Sounds like dirty pool to me tho. End of the day, guys should keep their hands off other guys balls.

    #13 1 year ago

    Practical effect of foul SHOULD carry the day. This is the sort of hypertechnical application of rules that drives me nuts. Player 4 reacted in a split second and had NO FKN TIME to assess the situation. In "normal" play, perhaps he would have simply been saving P3's ball and called P3 back to finish. The TD having correctly determined that the ball should be drained, any SANE application of rules would not penalize P4. No harm, no foul.

    #14 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinlawyer:

    Practical effect of foul SHOULD carry the day. This is the sort of hypertechnical application of rules that drives me nuts. Player 4 reacted in a split second and had NO FKN TIME to assess the situation. In "normal" play, perhaps he would have simply been saving P3's ball and called P3 back to finish. The TD having correctly determined that the ball should be drained, any SANE application of rules would not penalize P4. No harm, no foul.

    The only rule I apply extremely strictly is the playing out of turn rule. If you never allow leeway, you’ll never get the “well you didn’t dq him, why are you dqing me” situations. Yeah it’s always a bummer to have to dq someone, but I feel it’s more important to rule the same way every time for this rule.

    Almost any other rule I have leeway since the consequences of most other rules are not as severe.

    #15 1 year ago

    Did either player pay the extra dollar?

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    The only rule I apply extremely strictly is the playing out of turn rule. If you never allow leeway, you’ll never get the “well you didn’t dq him, why are you dqing me” situations. Yeah it’s always a bummer to have to dq someone, but I feel it’s more important to rule the same way every time for this rule.
    Almost any other rule I have leeway since the consequences of most other rules are not as severe.

    and it can be an bummer for someone to win by rule sharking

    but you still need to strictly define when a turn is over and being to strictly can lead to long delays when people wait out till say the delay of game time out for a player.

    I have seen things like some walks away then others are like ball saved when the next player is walking up.

    #17 1 year ago

    Bowlingpin wins - well done.

    thanks for the opinions, good info.

    #18 1 year ago

    I’ll see your jaws and raise ya a caddy shack.

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