(Topic ID: 96439)

Rudy's mouth triggers Steps opto

By ryanwanger

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 19 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Dewey68
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 9 years ago

The steps opto on my Funhouse wasn't working...turns out both sides were emitters! I replaced both sides, and it seemed to work for a few games. Now, the Hot Dog mode starts up (or adds time to itself) every time Rudy opens his mouth.

I pulled the opto board, thinking that I'd see something obvious. Looking through the manual, it looks like I might have the optos wired incorrectly.

There are four wires coming from J3. Collector/White. Emitter/Green. 12V/Grey. Ground/Black. I presume that white goes to the collector (the dark opto) and Green goes to the Emitter (the white opto). Does grey go to the emitter and black to the collector?

Would wiring this incorrectly even lead to the behavior I'm seeing, or is there likely some other problem?

#2 9 years ago

Sounds like a diode isolation issue. Wire colors on switches typically are color coded for row/column, check how other optos are wired. Have to assume your phantom switch is on a common row or column

#3 9 years ago

I would also check the row/column on which Rudy's mouth and the Steps opto are in the switch matrix. Keep in mind there's an opto right in front of Rudy's mouth as well, if that plays into anything.

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from dmklunk:

I would also check the row/column on which Rudy's mouth and the Steps opto are in the switch matrix. Keep in mind there's an opto right in front of Rudy's mouth as well, if that plays into anything.

The mouth and steps opto are in the same column, but everything else in the column works fine.

Quoted from barakandl:

Sounds like a diode isolation issue. Wire colors on switches typically are color coded for row/column, check how other optos are wired. Have to assume your phantom switch is on a common row or column

Can you talk a little more about what a diode isolation issue is and how to diagnose/resolve it?

#5 9 years ago

Check this article out written by terryb who posts on here a lot.

http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/repair-guides/146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

Lot's of good info there.

#6 9 years ago
Quoted from Dewey68:

Check this article out written by terryb who posts on here a lot.
http://pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/repair-guides/146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting
Lot's of good info there.

Thanks, reading this now.

I got a little sidetracked - it's not the jaw opto that is triggering the steps opto, it's the physical movement of Rudy's mouth (kind of). When you start the game, as soon as Rudy starts talking, it activates the steps opto. It adds time when he says subsequent things.

If I unplug the jaw motor, the steps opto isn't triggering at the same moments. It does still trigger inappropriately, but not as often or consistently.

I should also note that the optos seem to be aligned correctly...like if I wiggle them in switch test mode with my finger, they don't trigger easily.

#7 9 years ago

Okay, with the jaw disconnected, I've seen it trigger on a right outlane drain and on the tunnel kickout. Both of which are in that column. I'll figure out where to go from here.

#8 9 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

Okay, with the jaw disconnected, I've seen it trigger on a right outlane drain and on the tunnel kickout. Both of which are in that column. I'll figure out where to go from here.

Take all the balls out of the game and see if that still happens. If the problem goes away then add them back one by one until the problem reappears.

I still wouldn't rule out mis-wiring on the opto. Hopefully someone with a Funhouse can chime in since the manual really doesn't provide enough detail on the optos.

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

I still wouldn't rule out mis-wiring on the opto. Hopefully someone with a Funhouse can chime in since the manual really doesn't provide enough detail on the optos.

Thanks to an earlier suggestion, I did check the wiring to the steps opto and they are wired in a way that is consistent with the wiring to the Rudy's mouth opto, which is working 100%. White and Green wires to the black opto, and Black and Grey to the white opto.

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#10 9 years ago

I can't find any issues at all in switch test (with 0, 1, 2, and 3 balls). Everything works fine, and no other switches trigger the steps opto. But, in gameplay, other switches will trigger that opto.

If I disconnect J3 from the opto board (which goes to the steps opto), there are no problems during gameplay (other than, of course, the steps opto doesn't ever trigger).

It would seem like the problem lies in the opto board, right?

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

If I disconnect J3 from the opto board (which goes to the steps opto), there are no problems during gameplay (other than, of course, the steps opto doesn't ever trigger).

It would seem like the problem lies in the opto board, right?

Not guaranteed, but yes it would point in that direction. Do you have a logic probe, or does one of your other games have the same opto board?

The other route would be to put balls in all of the locks and then again see if the right outlane or tunnel kickout cause the phantom switch closure.

Just to be clear, which STEP opto is falsely indicating closed? I presume the T, but don't want to make assumptions.

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from terryb:

Just to be clear, which STEP opto is falsely indicating closed? I presume the T, but don't want to make assumptions.

I think he means the opto that is on the top of the steps that triggers the superdog mode.

Quoted from ryanwanger:

If I unplug the jaw motor, the steps opto isn't triggering at the same moments. It does still trigger inappropriately, but not as often or consistently.

This has got to be a loose connection somewhere.

#13 9 years ago

Ok. Just had the same problem And fixed it.. Not saying it's yours.. But One of the wires from Rudys Street Lamp was shorting out on mine.. Fixed the short and all is Working just fine.. What the connection is or was.?? Dont Know.. Just know that it shut up the Hotdog Problem..

1 week later
#14 9 years ago

Just revisiting this...(yes, I do mean the opto on top of the steps that triggers superdog)

Can't get the steps opto to trigger incorrectly in switch test, but in gameplay, it's happening all over the place. Two ways I've seen it happen most reliably: when the ball leaves the shooter lane switch when plunging your ball, and when the trap door closes.

Does seems like a short or bad connection, right? How do I find that exactly?

If I wiggle the optos themselves, their wires, or the connector that plugs into the opto board, it won't trigger.

(And thanks Diller, I did try unplugging the lamp. Didn't help).

#15 9 years ago

I still think it sounds like you have a broken off diode confusing the switch matrix.

Some times switch matrix issues are conditional. When a drop is down, when a ball is locked, when a ball is in the shooter lane etc.

#16 9 years ago

I'm with barakandl here, you really need to find the pattern. For a false switch indication caused by a diode/wire short there must be three specific switches closed (at the same time) and then the false indication will show up. First experiment with locations that are commonly closed (troughs, locks, drop targets, etc.) and if that doesn't work you're going to just have to watch very closely in game play.

Also if you could provide switch numbers (from the switch matrix) rather than switch descriptions that would greatly help us who are not as familiar with the game.

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

I still think it sounds like you have a broken off diode confusing the switch matrix.
Some times switch matrix issues are conditional. When a drop is down, when a ball is locked, when a ball is in the shooter lane etc.

Awesome, I'll see what I can do here.

terryb, I came here to post specific steps to make it happen, but after trying, I can't.

At the moment, there isn't anything that consistently triggers it. Every time I think I'm onto something, it doesn't happen. For example, it was almost always triggering when launching the first ball of the game, but then a few times it didn't. I saw it happen six times in a row when the trap door closed, but then several times in a row where it didn't. Doesn't seem to be consistent how many balls are locked/in the trough. Doh!

#18 9 years ago

Go through and tug on all your diodes in common rows/columns to your issue. That usually will find a hidden broken one.

#19 9 years ago

If you do a switch edge test and repeatedly release your plunger what happens? It doesn't make sense to me on the surface, but the fact that he says it happens AFTER he plunges the ball, when Rudy talks, it seems like the vibration is triggering something.

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