(Topic ID: 287927)

RS NVRAM installed No DMD

By Eddie

9 months ago


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  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by SKORR_Arcades
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There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 9 months ago

RS had a Display issue with Vertical Lines appearing at some points and disappearing at other points.

IN DMD test 2 pages had errors.

Replaced all ribbon cables no change.

All voltages good

Aftermarket Pinled DMD controller board is what is in the machine. Maybe Bad?

Replaced the Ram Chip with a Ramtron

Now the machine will not boot with DMD Ribbons connected to Pinled board.

Machine will boot with Frozen static on DMD board with J601 only disconnected to Pinled Board.

Machine will boot but with Dead Black DMD with only J602 connected.

Any ideas? Is it the wrong Nvram? Bad WPCS chip or Pinled chip?

If bad WPCS chip or chips which would they be ?

I do not have another WPCS machine to swap boards.

Thanks

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#2 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

RS had a Display issue with Vertical Lines appearing at some points and disappearing at other points.

Press on all the ICs that are in IC sockets on the MPU board.

#4 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Press on all the ICs that are in IC sockets on the MPU board.

Yes all ICs were were not only pressed but I had removed them and cleaned the oxidation off of their legs.
Didnt change anything.

#5 9 months ago

Do you have another DMD controller board you can try?

#6 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Do you have another DMD controller board you can try?

I have one from A clients CFTBL only it is using a color DMD. I believe the HighVoltage section is shot.

Besides that I dont want to use one clients board on anothers machine.

This is a very odd issue that I havent encountered before.

If it were the Nvram Im not sure that the game would boot and work perfectly except for no DMD.

I did swap out a new DMD and its the same issue.

#7 9 months ago

Try taking the batteries out of the holder
Can't use both

#8 9 months ago

You have a DMD controller board in WH20.

#9 9 months ago
Quoted from dar8dar:

Try taking the batteries out of the holder
Can't use both

The holder was out at first then I connected the holder just to see if it would make a difference.

Of course it did not.

#10 9 months ago

In this one picture, you do not show to have the ribbon cable plugged into the top DMD controller board.
pasted_image (resized).png
Can you show a new picture like this showing the ribbon cables all connected? I would definitely try with the WH20 DMD controller board.
2019-02-02 14_20_45-WPC ribbon cable to reseat - Paint (resized).png

#11 9 months ago

I just put nvram in all my games
I can't tell for sure by pics is the nvram installed in the proper direction

#12 9 months ago
Quoted from dar8dar:

I just put nvram in all my games
I can't tell for sure by pics is the nvram installed in the proper direction

It is in the proper direction.

#13 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You have a DMD controller board in WH20.

My WH2O is the same as the clients DMD controller board. High voltage shot and using a color DMD.

I really dont want to have to rework my Controller board to test this machines issues.

Too many variables on the RS as it is. RottenDog PDB, Pinled DMD control board, and now a NVRAM and not the anypin vram, and of course its a WPCS so I cant swap CPU boards with other machines to test.

#14 9 months ago

Ok

#15 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

My WH2O is the same as the clients DMD controller board. High voltage shot and using a color DMD.
I really dont want to have to rework my Controller board to test this machines issues.
Too many variables on the RS as it is. RottenDog PDB, Pinled DMD control board, and now a NVRAM and not the anypin vram, and of course its a WPCS so I cant swap CPU boards with other machines to test.

You can try the RS DMD controller board in WH20. This does look to be a data issue in RS, not a voltage issue.

#16 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

In this one picture, you do not show to have the ribbon cable plugged into the top DMD controller board.
[quoted image]
Can you show a new picture like this showing the ribbon cables all connected?[quoted image]

I was showing the 2 ways that the machine would boot.

1. With the Ribbon cable Not connected in J601 the machine boots and game plays fine only the DMD has the static DOts that you see in the pic.

2 With the Ribbon cable removed from J602 The machine boots and the game plays fine but there is nothing but a Dead DMD screen.

3 If both cables are connected to J601 and J602 the machine will not boot and display is also Dead.

#17 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

You can try the RS DMD controller board in WH20. This does look to be a data issue in RS, not a voltage issue.

Yes I can try the PinLed in the WH20. At least I can eliminate that board as the issue.

Do you know offhand if it will work with the ColorDMD? I dont have a manual for the Pinled its the first I have had one in my shop.

#18 9 months ago

I had one problem with a game I did two weeks ago
Make sure resister r93 is good

#19 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Do you know offhand if it will work with the ColorDMD? I dont have a manual for the Pinled its the first I have had one in my shop.

I never used a PinLED DMD controller before. I don't see why it wouldn't work with a ColorDMD unless there is a problem with the board.

Can you post a picture of that manual?

#20 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I never used a PinLED DMD controller before. I don't see why it wouldn't work with a ColorDMD unless there is a problem with the board.
Can you post a picture of that manual?

I dont have a manual for it.

#21 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

I dont have a manual for it.

Thanks. I read your comment wrong.

#22 9 months ago

I just tested R93 and its fine.

I also tried the original Ribbon cable and the DMD is back with the same vertical lines and missing lines and the Display test comes up again with Page Error E(1) 5 0 is back.

Seems that the new ribbon cable is bad go figure. Maybe a time to order that ribbon cable tester.

Anyway Im back to where I started Vertical lines and page error codes.

At least I know the NVRam is working.

#23 9 months ago

I had a couple dozen dots on mine replaced R93 and fixed it

#24 9 months ago

Page errors or RAM address errors are typically issues on the DMC (dot matrix controller). The PinWiki has a small section on page errors but I think if you're going to play an odds game you have higher odds with replacing the 6264 SRAM on the DMC than any of the ICs involved with page selection.

Note: you can use a low voltage DMD to isolate issues without having to rely on a working high voltage section on the DMC.

#25 9 months ago
Quoted from dar8dar:

I had a couple dozen dots on mine replaced R93 and fixed it

I tested it at 1.5 ohms

#26 9 months ago

R93 should be measuring 1.5k ohms across it. Be sure you are not accidentally touching something else.

#27 9 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Page errors or RAM address errors are typically issues on the DMC (dot matrix controller). The PinWiki has a small section on page errors but I think if you're going to play an odds game you have higher odds with replacing the 6264 SRAM on the DMC than any of the ICs involved with page selection.
Note: you can use a low voltage DMD to isolate issues without having to rely on a working high voltage section on the DMC.

The controller is a PinLED its all surface mount so changing out a 6264 is out.

#28 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

R93 should be measuring 1.5k ohms across it. Be sure you are not accidentally touching something else.

Its 1.5k

#29 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Yes I can try the PinLed in the WH20. At least I can eliminate that board as the issue.

I definitely would do this. It is leaning this way toward being the DMD controller board. If it is, might be tough to repair this board. Not sure if PinLED will offer to repair or replace it. If they do, I can see easily being a month with the shipping back and forth to Germany.

#30 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

The controller is a PinLED its all surface mount so changing out a 6264 is out.

The SRAM might be a discrete IC. Their website shows an image of the board with a DIPW-28 socket and an SOIC-28 IC. I don't know their circuitry but the SOIC-28 might be the SRAM. Otherwise the SRAM will be integrated inside the other SMT IC and ... yes ... you will not be able to change that easily if at all.

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

If it is, might be tough to repair this board.

I bet all the discrete logic ICs of the original Williams design (or equivalent circuitry) are embedded in that SMT IC. Might be an FPGA. I don't know for sure as I have no experience with this board.

A replacement is available @ https://pinballbasement.com/collections/wpc89-boards/products/wpc-dot-matrix-dmd-controller

#31 9 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The SRAM might be a discrete IC. Their website shows an image of the board with a DIPW-28 socket and an SOIC-28 IC. I don't know their circuitry but the SOIC-28 might be the SRAM. Otherwise the SRAM will be integrated inside the other SMT IC and ... yes ... you will not be able to change that easily if at all.

I bet all the discrete logic ICs of the original Williams design (or equivalent circuitry) are embedded in that SMT IC. Might be an FPGA. I don't know for sure as I have no experience with this board.
A replacement is available @ https://pinballbasement.com/collections/wpc89-boards/products/wpc-dot-matrix-dmd-controller

This would have been easy if I had one fully operational spare DMD control board.

I think I will order a new DMD board the seller of the RS said he would pay for it. The machine was just purchased by my client and the seller wants to make good on the bad display.

Is there any chance there could be something on the WPCS board or are the page errors strictly DMD board related?

Im going to go on Pinwicki and see what they say about the page errors.

#32 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Is there any chance there could be something on the WPCS board or are the page errors strictly DMD board related?

The CPU writes data into the SRAM on the DMC through the ribbon cable. The DMC duly displays the contents of the SRAM on the DMD.

It is not possible to be certain that a problem is isolated to one board or another without inspecting the data transfer on the ribbon cable or swapping out with a known good on one end. The problem is that the CPU could be writing bad data (the data put out on the bus through the ribbon cable) and the SRAM on the DMC is good or the CPU could be writing good data and the SRAM on the DMC is bad. Or any other combination or possibility of problem.

If I were to bet I would say the problem is on the DMC rather than the CPU. That would be an odds game based on the error you report. There is no conclusive evidence to back up my claim.

#33 9 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

The CPU writes data into the SRAM on the DMC through the ribbon cable. The DMC duly displays the contents of the SRAM on the DMD.
It is not possible to be certain that a problem is isolated to one board or another without inspecting the data transfer on the ribbon cable or swapping out with a known good on one end. The problem is that the CPU could be writing bad data (the data put out on the bus through the ribbon cable) and the SRAM on the DMC is good or the CPU could be writing good data and the SRAM on the DMC is bad. Or any other combination or possibility of problem.
If I were to bet I would say the problem is on the DMC rather than the CPU. That would be an odds game based on the error you report. There is no conclusive evidence to back up my claim.

I just checked out the Pinwiki info and it seems straight forward and an easy repair if I had a WILLIAMS DMD Control board LOL

I just went ahead and ordered the new DMD board. Is that your store the Pinball Basement?

Thanks everyone for your help lets see what happens when the new board arrives.

Ill post a follow up.

#34 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

I just checked out the Pinwiki info and it seems straight forward and an easy repair if I had a WILLIAMS DMD Control board LOL

Not always. I did have one Williams DMD controller board that turned out to be something other than the RAM on the board.

Quoted from Eddie:

I just went ahead and ordered the new DMD board. Is that your store the Pinball Basement?

I was really wanting to see the problem move with the board before suggesting a replacement board. I am glad you chose that board over a Rottendog.

Quoted from Eddie:

Is there any chance there could be something on the WPCS board or are the page errors strictly DMD board related?

Yes there is a chance the problem is on the MPU board.

#35 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Not always. I did have one Williams DMD controller board that turned out to be something other than the RAM on the board.
I was really wanting to see the problem move with the board before suggesting a replacement board. I am glad you chose that board over a Rottendog.

I agree but I didnt want to connect the Pinled board to my WH20 Color DMD not the same voltage.

Maybe the Pinled has settings for COLOR DMD Voltage? Im not going to bother.

I might order another new board for future testing in the shop.

In all of these years this is really the first real DMD issue I have had outside of a bad Display,Ribbon cables, High Power section on DMD board etc. Guess I have been lucky.

#36 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

I just checked out the Pinwiki info and it seems straight forward and an easy repair if I had a WILLIAMS DMD Control board LOL

Which is why when I make a reproduction board I try hard to keep as true to the original Williams design.

  • No schematic is necessary.
  • Familiarity with circuit and components.
  • You may already have components on hand.
  • All through hole design for easy service.
Quoted from Eddie:

Is that your store the Pinball Basement?

No. Pinside user lordloss or PinballBasement is the proprietor of that store.

Quoted from Eddie:

Maybe the Pinled has settings for COLOR DMD Voltage?

It almost certainly outputs the +12V required for the ColorDMD. Some of the plasma displays require this voltage to operate correctly.

<shameless plug>I have a variety of boards that you may be interested in having around as "known good" for comparison or testing. Of particular interest to you might be the WPC-89 CPU board I have. This board supports the standard configuration and with a jumper setting, the removal of some ICs (in sockets) and the addition of a small daughter board will support WPC-S. You can reverse those changes to restore it to WPC-89 standard. An "all-in-one" solution.</shameless plug>

#37 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

I agree but I didnt want to connect the Pinled board to my WH20 Color DMD not the same voltage.

Maybe the Pinled has settings for COLOR DMD Voltage? Im not going to bother.

5v,12v, and ground connections for the ColorDMD comes from J118 on the power driver board. You can follow the power adapter from the ColorDMD board to see that. Only thing then that comes from the DMD controller will be the display data when using a ColorDMD regardless of what DMD controller board you are using.

#38 9 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Which is why when I make a reproduction board I try hard to keep as true to the original Williams design.

No schematic is necessary.
Familiarity with circuit and components.
You may already have components on hand.
All through hole design for easy service.

No. Pinside user lordloss or PinballBasement is the proprietor of that store.

It almost certainly outputs the +12V required for the ColorDMD. Some of the plasma displays require this voltage to operate correctly.
<shameless plug>I have a variety of boards that you may be interested in having around as "known good" for comparison or testing. Of particular interest to you might be the WPC-89 CPU board I have. This board supports the standard configuration and with a jumper setting, the removal of some ICs (in sockets) and the addition of a small daughter board will support WPC-S. You can reverse those changes to restore it to WPC-89 standard. An "all-in-one" solution.</shameless plug>

Not shameless at all I have followed the posts about your boards. I think they are great. Is the Color DMD that I ordered one of yours?

#39 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

5v,12v, and ground connections for the ColorDMD comes from J118 on the power driver board. You can follow the power adapter from the ColorDMD board to see that. Only thing then that comes from the DMD controller will be the display data when using a ColorDMD regardless of what DMD controller board you are using.

Gotcha thanks!

#40 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Can you show a new picture like this showing the ribbon cables all connected?

Good reason for me asking this because I just had a chance to go have a look at the board on the PinLED website. I see a lot of questions about their stock picture they show. Their schematic is not matching that picture, so I believe you have a different revision. I wanted to make sure you don't have the ribbon cable to the DMD connected wrong if you do have the one like this picture. https://www.pinled.de/WebRoot/Store31/Shops/87959183/5E0A/5D91/E915/A485/CFD9/0A0C/6D0C/F776/2004017_revc.pdf pasted_image (resized).png

#41 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Is the Color DMD that I ordered one of yours?

No. I don't have anything color. The only DMDs I have are monochrome. They are ready for consumption by people who do repairs but not quite ready for public consumption. My goal is to have a low voltage (bench friendly) DMD as well a white DMD for my Twilight Zone (and perhaps other machines).

#42 9 months ago

My mistake I meant DMD controller board not ColorDMD Guess I was tired.

Quoted from DumbAss:

No. I don't have anything color. The only DMDs I have are monochrome. They are ready for consumption by people who do repairs but not quite ready for public consumption. My goal is to have a low voltage (bench friendly) DMD as well a white DMD for my Twilight Zone (and perhaps other machines).

Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Good reason for me asking this because I just had a chance to go have a look at the board on the PinLED website. I see a lot of questions about their stock picture they show. Their schematic is not matching that picture, so I believe you have a different revision. I wanted to make sure you don't have the ribbon cable to the DMD connected wrong if you do have the one like this picture. https://www.pinled.de/WebRoot/Store31/Shops/87959183/5E0A/5D91/E915/A485/CFD9/0A0C/6D0C/F776/2004017_revc.pdf [quoted image]

The board in your pic is not the board that is in the machine. There are no socketed chips in the board so I too do not know which revision this board is.

#43 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

The board in your pic is not the board that is in the machine. There are no socketed chips in the board so I too do not know which revision this board is.

That is why I would like to see a picture of all the boards connected in the game as I had shown. Also, to look over any other differences.

#44 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

That is why I would like to see a picture of all the boards connected in the game as I had shown. Also, to look over any other differences.

I posted earlier that I replaced the New Ribbon Cable with the old one just in case it was bad and the DMD came up and the machine booted as it did originally with the vertical lines back and the page errors.

I will take pics if you like right after I install another new ribbon cable. should be in about an hour.

#45 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

My mistake I meant DMD controller board not ColorDMD Guess I was tired.

That's understandable.

I make red boards. I only sent out a few green bench testing boards. The board you ordered is from Pinball Basement. It is a re-fabrication of the original Williams design and layout presumably with components recently manufactured. The original board is from PinLED - a company in Germany. PinLED boards have extensive use of SMT.

I have a DMC board reproduction but it does not work 100%. It mostly works but I need to figure out what's wrong with it before making it available.

#46 9 months ago

Here are pics of the Ribbon cables connected to the Boards as well as the Display images in attract mode and in test mode.

Note the Complete Chaos in the Test Patterns.

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#47 9 months ago

Normally that is the top left ribbon cable that causes that issue, but seems you are not having the typical failure.

Can you replace this bottom ribbon cable from a working game, from the MPU to DMD controller, to see if there is an improvement? I had many issues in the past with any ribbon cables that have a strain relief built into the cable, as if the male board pins do not go deep enough into the ribbon cable when plugged in.

crappy ribbon cable (resized).png

#48 9 months ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Normally that is the top left ribbon cable that causes that issue, but seems you are not having the typical failure.
Can you replace this bottom ribbon cable from a working game, from the MPU to DMD controller, to see if there is an improvement? I had many issues in the past with any ribbon cables that have a strain relief built into the cable, as if the male board pins do not go deep enough into the ribbon cable when plugged in.
[quoted image]

Yes that is the 2nd brand new cable installed. It Behaves just as the old cable. The first new cable was internally broken causing the Issues that I posted about earlier.

I am leaning towards it being the Pinled Board. Will know for sure when the new DMD board arrives.

#49 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

Yes that is the 2nd brand new cable installed. It Behaves just as the old cable. The first new cable was internally broken causing the Issues that I posted about earlier.
I am leaning towards it being the Pinled Board. Will know for sure when the new DMD board arrives.

I'm just saying that I have yet to have a DMD controller board fail with that type of result.

#50 9 months ago
Quoted from Eddie:

... the Display images in attract mode and in test mode.
Note the Complete Chaos in the Test Patterns.

Actually ... that's not chaos. It's ordered. "(col - 1) % 8 = 5" is fixed (either on or off). That provides much stronger evidence that it is a logic problem in the processing of the SRAM than a logic problem in the display itself.

There are 56 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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