Royal Guard ABCDE Special Problem.

Hi All,
First post as a member but been a regular lurker for a few months.. (Great forum by the way)

Be great if some of you guys could help out a guy with his first EM.

Problem is.....
When you turn the lights off on A.B.C.D.E for the special it doesn't light up 'C' above special but does light the red special below it, once lit it'll give replays when you hit the moving snap targets and side fan targets, you get a replay for every hit??

I've also noticed that when the ball goes down A or B it activates the ball exit 500 points when lit bonus?

Thx in advance for any help guys..

John

#2 8 years ago

GTB

DirtFlipper

Inactive member

Twin Cities, MN

12y 43,900 6,190 38

OP
Quoted from BanditBoy:
When you turn the lights off on A.B.C.D.E for the special it doesn't light up 'C' above special but does light the red special below it

This is correct behavior. The letter 'C' itself doesn't light, only the 'C' "lane" is lit for special (indicated with the Special light below the lane). The 'C' light is controlled by a Control Bank relay (CC), and once tripped, 'C' won't light again until the Control Bank resets.

OP
Quoted from BanditBoy:
once lit it'll give replays when you hit the moving snap targets and side fan targets, you get a replay for every hit??

Those should only give replays when all the sequence bank targets are made (purple, red, yellow, green snap targets for left and right; eight total). The Target Sequence relay (9T) switch might be closing early.

OP
Quoted from BanditBoy:
I've also noticed that when the ball goes down A or B it activates the ball exit 500 points when lit bonus?

The five bottom rollover lights should come on whenever the corresponding top rollovers are made (so the getting A should light the bottom left, B the next left, C the center, and so on). These are controlled via switches on the AA through EE relays on the Control Bank.

#3 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Thx for that info DF.

I now understand how the bonus on the bottom rollover 500 points bonus are activated and now know the C doesn't light up during "Special"... thx.

But still wondering if this is correct??
Once ABCDE lights are out and i'm on the bonus feature should hitting the moving snap targets and side fans give credits during the ABCDE feature? Mine does this even if some are still lit, seems a little too easy to gain credits.

John

#4 8 years ago

GTB

DirtFlipper

Inactive member

Twin Cities, MN

12y 43,900 6,190 38

OP
Quoted from BanditBoy:
Once ABCDE lights are out and i'm on the bonus feature should hitting the moving snap targets and side fans give credits during the ABCDE feature? Mine does this even if some are still lit,

Not sure I follow - if the ABCDE lights are out, how are some still lit?

#5 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Quoted from DirtFlipper:
Not sure I follow - if the ABCDE lights are out, how are some still lit?

Sorry, I mean the coloured lights below the moving snap targets, hitting those during ABCDE special gives credits.

Am I right in thinking that once ABCDE have been put out the only way you can get a bonus credit is to go down 'C' rollover on this feature?

Again, thx.

#6 8 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Here's how the game should work.

Completing all the upper rollovers lights the C lane for special.

Completing all the lit snap targets lights the side fan targets for special, and they alternate with each one point scoring.

You should never get a replay under any circumstances for hitting a snap target.

#7 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

So should the 'C' bulb above the red special re-light to highlight the rollover for the special, and should you only get a credit if it rolls down the 'C' rollover and not AB or DE ?

For some reason on mine once all lights at the top are out the machine goes crazy giving credits for hitting the moving snap targets.

I'm sure the moving snap target is working fine because once you hit all 8 snap targets the machine alternates between the 2 fan targets giving a credit if the one that's lit is hit.

Really appreciate the help with this being my first EM.. (Frustrating things. eh)

John

#8 8 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from BanditBoy:
So should the 'C' bulb above the red special re-light to highlight the rollover for the special, and should you only get a credit if it rolls down the 'C' rollover and not AB or DE ?
For some reason on mine once all lights at the top are out the machine goes crazy giving credits for hitting the moving snap targets.
I'm sure the moving snap target is working fine because once you hit all 8 snap targets the machine alternates between the 2 fan targets giving a credit if the one that's lit is hit.
Really appreciate the help with this being my first EM.. (Frustrating things. eh)
John

No. Once the rollovers are made, the lights for each go out and will not relight until the relays controlling those rollovers are reset. Only the red special light will be lit, and it won't be lit until all five rollovers are made and the sequence relay for those is tripped, which lights the special.

You should only get a replay for the rollover sequence by going over the C rollover only. The snap targets are not involved in awarding replays just by hitting them. Once they are all scored, then that sequence is completed and again that lights the fan targets for alternating specials.

It sounds to me that someone has hacked your game because there is absolutely no relationship between the rollover special and the snap targets.

You need to look under the playfield for signs of additional wiring that is causing this. This is more than just a switch out of adjustment-someone has done a hack to cause the snap targets to become related to the rollover sequence completed relay.

#9 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Oh-No......... This might be over my head...
Where should I be looking for the problem or where the hack might be??
Already had a few shocks from it so a little scared to tinker... lol
Thx.

Would you know what these are for?
2BB38A04-2127-47E5-A747-7AE20CC7913D_zps4zul4iaw.png2BB38A04-2127-47E5-A747-7AE20CC7913D_zps4zul4iaw.png

#10 8 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

The left hand plug turns the match feature on or off. The right hand plug sets how many credits are awarded when a coin is dropped in the extra coin chute. They are not in any way part of your issue.

Find the sequence completed relay for the ABCDE sequence. That's a good place to start.

The coils in this game only have 24v to them, you won't get hurt there. There is line voltage to other places, some of the reset bank coils (big coils that reset banks of relays) and there is line voltage to the front door.

Do you have a schematic?

#11 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Yes I have the schematic for this machine but being new to all this it's hard to understand, looks very complicated

#12 8 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

Well, you're just going to have to dive in and figure it out.

Basically what you need to do is find the coil on the schematic and then trace back along the line. that will show you the various switches that are involved in the circuit.

In this case, though, I just feel that someone has hacked the machine to cause that. If you find the replay step up coil, you can trace back and find all the switches that have to be activated in order for the replay unit to step up (award a replay). There is a relay in the backbox that steps up the unit and also fires the knocker.

#13 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Thx for all this, will have a look at the weekend when I take the machine home from work, I've given it a new paint job since buying it...

Please look out for me replying..

#14 8 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from BanditBoy:
Thx for all this, will have a look at the weekend when I take the machine home from work, I've given it a new paint job since buying it...
Please look out for me replying..

I hope you painted it in the proper scheme.

#15 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Quoted from EMsInKC:
I hope you painted it in the proper scheme.

Similar, had to make it house friendly with less blue on........
Took a load of photo's during the restoration, when I get chance I'll do a thread in restorations on here.....
Quite proud of it with it being my first time.

How it was.....
205A9FF0-52D3-4C2C-9470-FD6A90BE6C2E_zps3jy8kf2s.jpg

How I did it, also got new backglass since pic was taken from Vancouver.... traveled a fair few thousand miles..
80F71773-73B7-4E28-91B2-B633153B8395_zpsj4b3buqn.jpg

#16 8 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

LOL, are you scared of blue? All you left out was the big blue circles and the small ones on the front of the game.

Don't see any webbing.

It looks pretty nice for your first try at it, though.

#17 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Was also afraid of webbing..lol
Had to make it house friendly to ease it in past the wife.... Kitchen is quite large so I fancy decorating it out as an American diner...
Trouble is over here is that all the American retro stuff is hard to come by and if it is available it's very expensive.
I like the look of those neon signs and Coca Cola retro items. Even tho I prefer Pepsi..lol

#18 8 years ago

SDM

EMsInKC

Pinside member

OK then, she's afraid of blue.

Wives and pinball don't mix unless you happen to be one of the lucky ones who have wives who like it too.

Webbing isn't that big a deal. Just takes practice.

#19 8 years ago

HRG

poppapin

Pinside member

12y 135K 11,332 6 7 1

OP
Quoted from BanditBoy:
Quite proud of it with it being my first time.

Looks good!! Royal Guard is a fun game, was my 1st game when I got into this & its still in my collection.

#20 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Think I've sorted it??
I also noticed I had a problem where the 'D' light didn't go off properly leaving it flickering, and after advice and reading other threads on Pinside I now understand a little more about how relays work and how they lock in and then reset.
Anyway, I plucked up some courage and dove in, cleaned a few contacts and altered the gap on others then, "Hey Presto", it's now working..

Thx guys.....

3 months later

#21 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member

Still getting this problem?.. When ABCDE are all out I still get the problem of everytime I hit the moving snap targets it puts a game credit on?

1 month later

#22 8 years ago

JON

BanditBoy

Inactive member