Woodcliff Lake, NJ
I've noticed that my match numbers are stuck at #20. Is there some easy way to fix this?
(Topic ID: 233481)
Linked Games
Royal Flush
Gottlieb, 1976
Topic Gallery
The F relay disc controls power to the match lights. The F relay disc coil gets power from an N relay switch and a B relay switch. Check the following:
N relay switch - red/white wire and blue/black wire
B relay switch - red/white wire and blue/black wire
Make sure the switches are clean and adjusted properly...
These match/alternating units are usually in the backbox along the right side. They do two things typically. The discs and wiper section on the outside control the match 0-9. Every time the 10 point relay activates this relay activates and rotates the wiper 1 position. If the game has an alternating feature where bonus switches between sides of the playfield, there is a switch that rides a cam between the discs that opens and closes every time the cam moves.
The problem, as mentioned earlier, is that the plastic cam, ratchet finger, wipers and discs get dirty. I take this entire assembly apart, clean with a toothbrush, clean the contact, wiper arms, copper traces and apply a thin layer of EM lube to the surface of the discs.
gottlieb-orbit-pinball-machine-relay_1_7aae335498272ed85526be0f3afe9904 (resized).jpgQuoted from schudel5:These match/alternating units are usually in the backbox along the right side. They do two things typically. The discs and wiper section on the outside control the match 0-9. Every time the 10 point relay activates this relay activates and rotates the wiper 1 position. If the game has an alternating feature where bonus switches between sides of the playfield, there is a switch that rides a cam between the discs that opens and closes every time the cam moves.
The problem, as mentioned earlier, is that the plastic cam, ratchet finger, wipers and discs get dirty. I take this entire assembly apart, clean with a toothbrush, clean the contact, wiper arms, copper traces and apply a thin layer of EM lube to the surface of the discs.
Thanks for this info and pic
Quoted from Barakawins1:Hmmm I’m new to the em realm.
Beware that if you haven't done this before, this assembly is pretty sensitive to getting things dialed in just right. The tolerances are pretty tight. If you're mechanically inclined and have some patience pay close attention as you take things apart. If you're not, try cleaning what you can without disassembling anything first to see if that resolves the problem.
/Mark
If you decide to take it apart, the Royal Flush manual has the adjustment procedure on page 9. Also available at
http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/cards/Used_cards/Gottlieb_AS-relay_Adjustment_B-11492.jpg
Royal Flush has a total of three AS relays inside it. Should you take apart the F relay and find yourself confused, you can always look at one of the other two for reference, ideally the I Relay. It has the same hardware on it: two wiper discs, and two normally open (NO) switches.
Quoted from leckmeck:Royal Flush has a total of three AS relays inside it. Should you take apart the F relay and find yourself confused, you can always look at one of the other two for reference, ideally the I Relay. It has the same hardware on it: two wiper discs, and two normally open (NO) switches.
Thank you for the assistance. I may have to tackle this tomorrow. Recovering from a slight flu onset.
Quoted from Barakawins1:I may have to tackle this tomorrow.
I just went through my Royal Flush rebuild a few months ago, so the "delight" of having to clean 3 of these AS relays is still fresh in my mind. It's clearly a cost cutting measure, and Gottlieb uses them in some of the most critical game operations: with the scanning bonus being one of them.
A few tips/mini-guide from my experience:
-Take them out of the game entirely to work on them. Like Pinhead52 mentioned, they're all plugged in via jones plugs, so they're super easy to remove.
-I was able to clean and lube them without taking anything of the mechanism apart.
-Use a shit ton of q-tips and alcohol in and around everything, then a smear of brasso/polish to really buff up the wiper plates. Then alcohol again. Try really hard not to "peel" back the itsy bitsy wipers back too much. Finish up with the tiniest bit of teflon lube on the wiper plates.
-As you clean, manually click the relay plate to make sure it advances around properly. If it gets stuck, check the tension on the inside switch. Sometimes just a hair adjustment is enough to reduce drag and let the mechanism do it's thing. This is the trickiest on the relays where there's more than one inner switch stack.
They're very fragile, so be careful.
Clay has a pretty good guide too on his EM repair section, and I'm pretty certain Nic covered these in detail during his tour.
Quoted from cjpins:I think you should just sell it John. Problem solved!! Then again I have a few Ems I can sell you that don’t work.
Nah one or two em's is way enough for me. These are a pia
Quoted from dasvis:AS relays are the work of the devil
Nah...AX and BX relays are. Seriously.
Fixed. Thanks Guys. This worked. I dis-assembled the match assembly, cleaned everything with a cue tip and put it back together. Now, this did not work. Seems I
was still having some binding occurrence so I wasn't able to advance. I cleaned everything with alcohol, still no. I used dielectric grease on the contacts that the mini wipers slide on, a bit better. Finally, WD-40 sprayed at on the plastic parts freed everything up. Now everything was spinning as it should. I'm guessing some type of lubricant is key for the plastic advance gears to spin properly.
Quoted from Barakawins1:Fixed. Thanks Guys. This worked. I dis-assembled the match assembly, cleaned everything with a cue tip and put it back together. Now, this did not work. Seems I
was still having some binding occurrence so I wasn't able to advance. I cleaned everything with alcohol, still no. I used dielectric grease on the contacts that the mini wipers slide on, a bit better. Finally, WD-40 sprayed at on the plastic parts freed everything up. Now everything was spinning as it should. I'm guessing some type of lubricant is key for the plastic advance gears to spin properly.
Yeah, WD40, that's the ticket. That's the WORST thing you can do to it. Wait a couple of years & it will be gummed up badly from the WD40.
I have spent hours & hours (and hours) cleaning that shit out of stepper motors, score reels, and relays.
What else can you lube those plastic reels with? They seem to need some type of lube. All lubes tend to get gummed up eventually.
PBR sells Contact Disc Grease on their 'tools' page
http://www.pbresource.com/tools.html
http://www.pbresource.com/toolbox/pbr-grease.jpg
I have this grease. However, it doesn't really work for this application well. I guess I'll see how long the WD lasts. I only used it on the plastic parts to unstick em.
Barakawins, if you have a can of “QD Electronics cleaner” shoot a couple of shots of the stuff in the mech to degrease the WD-40. Dasvis is right. It’ll gum up and become a much worse problem in a couple of years.
If you must lube, after the Wd-40 has been removed, I’ve used dry silicone spray to very good effect. It goes on wet, and dries completely, so it’ll never gum up, and will still provide good lubrication. It comes in a spray can. You’ll be saving yourself a ton of trouble down the road.
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