(Topic ID: 224635)

Royal Flush - another "My First EM Please Help"

By Renouart

5 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Renouart
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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Gottlieb switch types (resized).jpg
Royal Flush Joker relays (resized).jpg
RF score? (resized).jpg
Royal Flush score motor 2 (resized).jpg
RF motor switches (resized).jpg
Royal Flush score motor (resized).jpg
Royal flush 2 (resized).jpg
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#1 5 years ago

I had been considering getting an EM for a while, and a Royal Flush came up close by, so was able to snag it. Was in the owners basement for 30 years, and looks pretty good after cleaning, but there are few problems with it - replaced all the bulbs but I notice that some need jiggling to get to work - is there a way to clean the bulb sockets, or should I just replace them. Anyway, that is the easy question.

I also have a problem with activating the Joker standups/rollovers. When I hit these, the following happens - Purple Joker just activates the purple bonus. But when I hit the Green or White, they each activate their own color and the Purple. This seems like a short to me, but unclear on why it would not work both ways, or how to find where it is. Below is the schematic for this.

When I hit the Purple, I see relay 3B activate. When I hit Green, both 1B and 3B activate. When I hit White, both 2B and 3B activate. I thought there would be a short on the wires to the relay (Bl-Or, green) (Or-Bl, white) (Or+Bl, purple), but here are my results, which I need help to interpret and guidance on where to look for the problem:
None hit, continuity between gr-wh, gr-purple, wh-purple
Purple hit, all still have continuity
Green hit, continuity only wh-purple
White hit, continuity only gr-purple
All hit, no continuity

Maybe I am not asking the right questions, but any help to figure this out is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Royal flush jokers (resized).jpgRoyal flush jokers (resized).jpg
#3 5 years ago

Thanks for the site about fixing the lamp sockets - hadn't seen this, very helpful.

#5 5 years ago

HowardR, thank you! That was it, exactly! I had adjusted that switch as it was not scoring and had been too far out, but at your suggestion, I looked closer and saw that one of the contacts was touching. Bent it back out, and now all the Jokers work as intended.

#6 5 years ago

Unfortunately, now I have some additional problems, which I do not have a clue on how to troubleshoot -
1. From the schematic below, the lights bracketed in orange are no longer working, though they were earlier. The lights bracketed in yellow are working fine. All of the fuses are fine. Could it be the switch labeled motor 30? Not sure where this would be.
2. For the kick out hole, the green and purple jokers each add the additional 1000pts, but the white joker does not.
3. For the green outlane and inlane rollovers, they score 500pt. When the green joker is hit, they are dead. When the purple joker is hit, then they score 3000 as they should. But if the white joker is hit, they score 3500.
4. For the white rollover, the lane scores 500. But when the white joker is hit, it scores 3500, not the intended 3000.

I know these are a lot of issues, maybe related. Any suggestions would be great for where to start for any of them.

Thanks!

Royal flush 2 (resized).jpgRoyal flush 2 (resized).jpg
#8 5 years ago

Mark,
Thank you for the suggestion - I cleaned the 3D switch, which was very dirty, and now the green lanes score correctly, 500 when not activated and 3000 when they are. However, those lights still do not come on and the white joker still scores incorrectly.

I am thinking it is the B switches that need to be looked at, but did not get a chance to do that tonight.

Any other thoughts, and ideas on where to look would be appreciated.

#10 5 years ago

I understand what you are saying about the scoring, not sure what else I might have done to fix that. But I am sure that I am on 3D, based on the location of motor 3 1/2. It is normally closed when the score motor is at the home position. Here is the odd thing - both leaves of that switch have continuity with all lamps, both controlled and GI. And this is regardless of whether the switch is closed or open. Perhaps this is via the ground?

#12 5 years ago

Thanks for discussion on the continuity, makes sense.

Since I may have identified the switches wrong, here is a pic and how I labeled them. What I am calling 3D does not have the color wiring that you indicate, so would be useful to know if I got it wrong.

RF motor switches (resized).jpgRF motor switches (resized).jpg
#14 5 years ago

Thanks for the help - as you predicted, it was the score motor 3D. I checked it not by resistance, but by voltage to ground. And even though it looked closed, it was not. Sanded it with 400 grit sandpaper, and now all those lamps light up correctly. And yes, the motor in my post was not at home, I had turned it manually. Was a big help explaining how the score motor works - now I think I understand the diagrams.

So now with all the lights working correctly, I still have the scoring issue. I still do not understand enough about the schematics to trace the problem to the correct switches, so any help here too would be greatly appreciated.

Unactivated, all three joker lanes score 500.
Activating just the purple joker - I get 3000 in the purple lanes and 500 in the rest
Activating just the green joker - I get no points in the green lanes and 500 in the rest
Activating just the white joker - I get 3500 in all the lanes

I am guessing that the problem is in the 1B/2B/3B relays, but not sure which switches to look at - the ones bracketed below? Since these are in the same group as the 500 and 3000 point switches, I wonder if these might be for scoring also.

RF score? (resized).jpgRF score? (resized).jpg
#16 5 years ago

This was a great help. I found the correct switches by the wire color, sanded the contacts, and then slightly bent the leaves, either to make a better contact when tripped (green joker), or to break contact when tripped (white joker). This worked perfectly, and now all the jokers score correctly. Thanks so much for the help. After this experience, I really understand why some people love the physicallity of EMs, you can really see how it works.

I appreciate your patience in explaining about the switches, but could you help a bit more with the designations? I understand that "No." for 1B,2B,3B refer to the separate groups of switches in the trip relay bank, or on the floor of the box, and are clearly marked. "Index" refers to the location on the schematic. What does "Contacts" refer to?

#19 5 years ago

Thanks for your help. I had tried a business card on the score motor, but that didn't help, and I thought I read that someone then used 400 grit, but your point is well taken and will start with 1200 next time - or get a flexstone.

I greatly appreciate all your time helping me through these issues - wonderful to have the game working like it should, except for those remaining few bulbs I still need to get to.

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