(Topic ID: 237929)

Royal Flush (1976) Double Bonus issues


By newovad

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by HowardR
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 9 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

pasted_image (resized).png
0Royal-Flush-Work-23 (resized).jpg
0Royal-Flush-Work-22 (resized).jpg
0Royal-Flush-Work-21 (resized).jpg
0Royal-Flush-Work-08b (resized).jpg
64acff061a8baeb5094157e96a93d30b8b2c8cb5 (resized).jpg
IMG_E1618 (resized).JPG
IMG_E1620 (resized).JPG
IMG_E1619 (resized).JPG

#1 1 year ago

Well, I've gotten my Royal Flush to go from non-functioning to everything but the Double Bonus. Wasn't even wired correctly when I got the machine, so I think I'm doing pretty well. Sometimes it works, sometimes it sticks and gives quad bonus, and sometimes it skips over a value entirely even when that value is lit. Wasn't as noticeable on 5 ball play but when you have two shots at double bonus on 3 ball play, it starts to stand out.

So I have fiddled with all my bonus relay and double bonus relays but haven't made anything better (or worse). Anyone have some helpful hints for this situation?

IMG_E1618 (resized).JPGIMG_E1619 (resized).JPGIMG_E1620 (resized).JPG
#2 1 year ago

Bumping this for the fine folks that Pinside at work. Thanks.

#3 1 year ago

Have you disassembled, cleaned and reassembled the little bonus stepper that's mounted on the underside of the playfield (I don't have a Royal Flush in front of me, but is it labeled "I"?)? If you're having intermittent problems, I'd guess it's probably a mechanical problem. Cleaning that unit, and the copper contacts on both sides of it so that's moving with a crisp click each time the solenoid fires may help. It has a bunch of wires, but detaches from the playfield with a single Jones plug, so you can take it to a bench somewhere with good lighting and take it apart for cleaning.

#4 1 year ago

I have removed and cleaned the stepper unit. I've also done work on the double bonus unit which has just two positions so that things get counted twice. I have cleaned and attempted to adjust that one to no avail. Just trying to pin down which thing to work on.

#5 1 year ago

Did you check the BX? They're tetchy.

#6 1 year ago

I've been through all the relays at some point to get this one functioning. Not sure where BX comes into play with Bonus.

#7 1 year ago

BX is last ball relay.

64acff061a8baeb5094157e96a93d30b8b2c8cb5 (resized).jpg
#8 1 year ago
Quoted from currieddog:

BX is last ball relay.
[quoted image]

Thanks. Cleaning the stepper right now. If that gives me nothing, I'll check out BX. I'm assuming BL-Yel would be the contact to check?

#9 1 year ago

Hi newovad
the Bonus-Feature in Royal Flush is complicated. I have some questions to Your post-1: Sometimes it works means Single Bonus always is O.K. (besides maybe skipping a position) ?
Sometimes it works means Double Bonus sometimes is O.K. (besides maybe skipping a position) ?
Sometimes it sticks and gives quad bonus means when You have quad bonus You have the whole bonus feature quad ?
Do You sometimes have triple bonus ? Do You sometimes have 5 or 6 ... times faulty bonus ?
In the first JPG in post-1 I see "J (Relay) has ONLY ONE Normally closed switch (text: AS. 1A)" Please look in Your pin - is this true - the J-Relay ONLY has ONE switch ?

Here https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/card-whizroyal-flush-bonus-question#post-3983173 there was a problem with the 1000ds Bonus - but not a problem with quad bonus --- do not read there. I show here the functioning single Bonus - how to get 1000 - 2000 - 3000 - 4000 - 5000 points. In this I do not see a chance to do for "double bonus" a quickly actuating once more the L-1000-Relay so to me means "double bonus" is done by resting double time in a given position - giving single bonus and again single bonus. (Thats why I was asking for "faulty triple bonus ...")

Frankly - I do not see how the stepping through the bonus-positions can be slow-downed - the switch "J" in the last JPG in post-1 (shown in the middle between Your yellow mark) gives me headaches - I want to be sure about " the J-Relay ONLY has ONE switch" - if true I then must brood about this place in the schematics - if false I must search in the schematics for drawing of J-Relay-Switches. Greetings Rolf

0Royal-Flush-Work-08b (resized).jpg
#10 1 year ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi newovad
the Bonus-Feature in Royal Flush is complicated. I have some questions to Your post-1: Sometimes it works means Single Bonus always is O.K. (besides maybe skipping a position) ?

Single bonus scores the correct amount of points for each lit item with the the stepper going through each of the 5 values. I have not noticed it skip a value, so it seems to be working correctly.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi newovad
Sometimes it works means Double Bonus sometimes is O.K. (besides maybe skipping a position) ?
Sometimes it sticks and gives quad bonus means when You have quad bonus You have the whole bonus feature quad ?
Do You sometimes have triple bonus ? Do You sometimes have 5 or 6 ... times faulty bonus ?

For example, if the bonus gets stuck at 2,000 Points it just keeps adding that same value until it clicks to the next value. I haven't counted to see if it is always an even number.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi newovad
In the first JPG in post-1 I see "J (Relay) has ONLY ONE Normally closed switch (text: AS. 1A)" Please look in Your pin - is this true - the J-Relay ONLY has ONE switch ?

It is just the one. It is normally open during single bonus and closes after the first set of points on double bonus. It reopens when the bonus moves on to the next point total and continues the cycle.

Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi newovad
I show here the functioning single Bonus - how to get 1000 - 2000 - 3000 - 4000 - 5000 points. In this I do not see a chance to do for "double bonus" a quickly actuating once more the L-1000-Relay so to me means "double bonus" is done by resting double time in a given position - giving single bonus and again single bonus. (Thats why I was asking for "faulty triple bonus ...")
Frankly - I do not see how the stepping through the bonus-positions can be slow-downed - the switch "J" in the last JPG in post-1 (shown in the middle between Your yellow mark) gives me headaches - I want to be sure about " the J-Relay ONLY has ONE switch" - if true I then must brood about this place in the schematics - if false I must search in the schematics for drawing of J-Relay-Switches. Greetings Rolf

The extra bonuses are pulsed at the normal rate, the stepper just doesn't move on to the next value. The only time I get a quick acutation is when it skips over a bonus entirely.

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from newovad:

I'm assuming BL-Yel would be the contact to check?

Give the whole relay a good look.

#12 1 year ago

Hi Impact93
thanks for Your answers --- the single bonus fully works. You may think about "I want to play, play, play - for a while I make it impossible for the KX-Relay to actuate - I play all games - all balls simply 'single bonus' ". See the schematics at "D-7" the coil is fed by 6VAC - one side of the coil has (probably) two wires-color-BLK-WH soldered-on. The other side of the coil has soldered-on wire-BLK-YEL leading to a switch mounted on the relay. Unsolder wire-BLK-YEL away from the Coil and You will have always single bonus - OR SIMPLY unplug the Adj-Jack "3 Balls - 5 Balls" and do not plug-in.

Your example "stuck at (single) 2000" - would be interesting if You (when faulty) always get 4000 or sometimes 6000 or 8000 points. Also would be interesting when You have lighted the 1000, 2000, 3000 - doubled: When faulty You have ALL doubled ?

Interesting is Your description on behaviour of J-Relay: Non-pulling - pulling - reopens. Also of value: ONLY one switch on the J-Relay - the problem seems to be "Why is it not pulling-in after the first set of points ?". I believe the KX-Relay actuates and stays actuated when You reach "Ball-2" - correct ?

I must brood over the last JPG in Your post-1 - by now I do not see the Non-pulling - pulling - reopens. Greetings Rolf

#13 1 year ago

BX seems to be working fine. I've noticed on the I relay, when it gets "stuck", the coil is not pulling, making me think it isn't getting a signal to do so. When it skips, the coil pulls in quick succession and the stepper moves as directed, albeit too fast.

Here's a video of the stepper skipping the 5,000 point double bonus. You should be able to hear the reels for 1,000-4,000

This video shows the bonus count stuck on 1,000 (6 total) and then skipping 4,000 completely before giving a single 5,000 bonus.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from newovad:

I have removed and cleaned the stepper unit.

Did you clean the switches on it? (not just the board and contacts)

#15 1 year ago

Hi Impact93
see the JPG - "encircled red" - one of the many switches on O-Ball-Return-Relay --- I believe this switch is tight - sometimes faulty closed when the O-Relay is not active. Then the running motor doing its work - closing and closing its switch-1A. I believe that faulty switch on O-Relay causes the "skipping".
The second video in post-13 --- I do not hear Score-Drums - I believe to hear the Score-Motor actuating --- can You please give some explanation to the video ? (It is getting late here in Switzerland I probably will go to sleep soon) Greetings Rolf

0Royal-Flush-Work-21 (resized).jpg
#16 1 year ago

Yes, the switches have been cleaned.

#17 1 year ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi Impact93
see the JPG - "encircled red" - one of the many switches on O-Ball-Return-Relay --- I believe this switch is tight - sometimes faulty closed when the O-Relay is not active. Then the running motor doing its work - closing and closing its switch-1A. I believe that faulty switch on O-Relay causes the "skipping".
The second video in post-13 --- I do not hear Score-Drums - I believe to hear the Score-Motor actuating --- can You please give some explanation to the video ? (It is getting late here in Switzerland I probably will go to sleep soon) Greetings Rolf
[quoted image]

I will check on the O relay.

In the video you should hear the score motor easily. The score-drum sound is most easily heard when the 500 3000 300 lights in the background are off.
The bonus count gets stuck on 1,000 for 6 total before continuing the correct process. It should pulse twice on 4,000 while not scoring points but skips it entirely. It then awards only a single 5,000 point bonus, when it should pulse and count it a second time.

Perhaps the O relay will fix things and you'll awake to the good news. Thank you.

#19 1 year ago

KX is the double bonus relay. It lights the double bonus.

#20 1 year ago

Have you checked for "floating contacts" ie-the contact is just a bit loose on the blade and needs a good squeeze with some needlenose pliers? It seems like that, a bit of a short, or a semi-cold solder at this point.

#21 1 year ago

Hi Impact93
I guess I got it --- Is Your J-Relay actually a ministepper with a switch alternating between open and closed ? See here http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/cards/Used_cards/Gottlieb_AS-relay_Adjustment_B-11492.jpg every second step the switch on top is closed. I wish that Gottlieb would have written in the schematics what I have written: "alternates opened - closed". I was working / drawing the JPG then I realized "J-Relay is an AS-Relay-Ministepper".
To Your "quad bonus problem: Check / clean (maybe adjust) this only switch on the J-Relay - also check "wires truely soldered-on" ? Greetings Rolf
P.S.: I show the JPG as I was working on --- the JPG here and the JPG in post-9 covers the whole Bonus Feature.

0Royal-Flush-Work-22 (resized).jpg
#22 1 year ago

I worked on KX and put paper between contacts to figure out what they do. Middle set is closed on Double Bonus and awards points, so that one is not the problem. The first set of contacts is closed/open on Double Bonus. This set allows movement between the bonus awards.

I adjusted that set of contacts, plus cleaned the J relay (Stepper). The bonus is much more likely to work correctly now. I've yet to have it get stuck awarding the same bonus more than twice but it will sometimes give a single bonus instead of the double. That is most likely related to the J relay.

#23 1 year ago

Hi newovad
I apologize - I did address You many times as "Impact93". One faulty writing and then copied, copied, copied ...
See the JPG - the schematics are drawn abstract - they do not show the exact wiring in the pin. Yes, electrically the schematics are true --- but wires may run other than drawn - example: In the pins there is never a fork-off from an connecting wire - always solder-lugs are used. See the bottom of the JPG - maybe the actual wiring in Your pin is as I have drawn it. Please check all the connecting wires - I-Relay, J-Relay, KX-Relay. When the pin is in Game-Over: Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - look at the stepper and its switch (J-Relay): Is the J-Relay in a position so the switch is open ? Greetings Rolf

0Royal-Flush-Work-23 (resized).jpg
#24 1 year ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi newovad
I apologize - I did address You many times as "Impact93". One faulty writing and then copied, copied, copied ...
See the JPG - the schematics are drawn abstract - they do not show the exact wiring in the pin. Yes, electrically the schematics are true --- but wires may run other than drawn - example: In the pins there is never a fork-off from an connecting wire - always solder-lugs are used. See the bottom of the JPG - maybe the actual wiring in Your pin is as I have drawn it. Please check all the connecting wires - I-Relay, J-Relay, KX-Relay. When the pin is in Game-Over: Toggle-off, unplug the main power cord (Safety Reasons) - look at the stepper and its switch (J-Relay): Is the J-Relay in a position so the switch is open ? Greetings Rolf
[quoted image]

No worries, Rolf.

For now, I'm going to go ahead and mark this as resolved for now. It has settled down and completed about 7 games without a hitch in bonus. I'm going to continue to hold my breath every time it counts bonus for the foreseeable future. I'm going to chalk it up to the KX-Relay if anyone needs this info in the future.

Thanks to @rolf_martin_062 and @currieddog for the help.

6 months later
#25 9 months ago

I have a somewhat similar problem where my double bonus never turns on. I assumed that for the last ball when on 3 ball, double bonus should be on.

If I manually turn on the relay KX for double bonus it works as it should, counts down and scores correctly. When starting a new game the double bonus coil “off” relay triggers correctly. But will never turn on again.

#26 9 months ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

I have a somewhat similar problem where my double bonus never turns on. I assumed that for the last ball when on 3 ball, double bonus should be on.
If I manually turn on the relay KX for double bonus it works as it should, counts down and scores correctly. When starting a new game the double bonus coil “off” relay triggers correctly. But will never turn on again.

If the Double Bonus (KX) relay doesn't activate on ball 2 of a 3 ball game, Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features

pasted_image (resized).png
#27 9 months ago

Thanks HowardR, I don’t know exactly what I’ve proven. But if I run an alligator clip between BLK-YEL of KX, and YEL of Q..

The KX relay flips on, The Double Bonus lamp lights, and the ball in play “2” light is lit. Double bonus scores correctly at end of ball.

Does thus mean the issue likely resides in the player unit?

#28 9 months ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

Does thus mean the issue likely resides in the player unit?

Probably but you can verify that by running your jumper between the Yellow and Brown wires on the Player unit disk.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 15.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
$ 4.49
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 7.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pinball Z
$ 22.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 99.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 30.00
Playfield - Decals
Metal-Mods
$ 34.95
Playfield - Other
Hookedonpinball.com
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 100.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
G-Money Mods
$ 99.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 7,599.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 53.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 899.00
$ 117.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
The MOD Couple
$ 74.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
Id Rather Play Pinball
$ 30.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Game Room Info Shop
From: € 0.39
Rubber/Silicone
Scandinavian Pinball
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 29.99
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Lighted Pinball Mods

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside