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(Topic ID: 60034)

Routed AFM...how much should I offer?


By VolunteerPin

7 years ago



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  • 69 posts
  • 42 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Triumvirat73
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 69 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 7 years ago

I was recently on vacation and came across an AFM. I did not take photos (sadly) but it was in what I would consider fair condition only. It was very dirty. The cab had some fade and marks. I don't remember if the playfield had any significant wear or not as I was not really thinking about trying to buy it. The playfield, of course was very dirty also.

The flippers needed rebuilt and worked only partially.

At least one martian did not work.

This was my first time (and only) ever playing AFM not on Pinball Arcade and I was pretty much underwhelmed because of some of these issues.

Anyhow, on a whim, I called the owner of the establishment today and she is considering selling the machine to me. She has no idea what the pin is worth and put it on me to figure out a fair price.

I did mention to her that I could trade one of my other titles (namely POTC or HS + cash) but she did not seem interested. (I did make a thread about possibly offering POTC for the AFM and the consensus was that would be a good trade.)

So, I told her I would do some research and get back to her. I want to offer a fair price but I also desire to fully restore this pin to its former glory which means maybe paying somebody to do it for me. With that in mind, I need to consider how much it is worth as a project/routed pin.

I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks for your input and experience.

Darin

#2 7 years ago

It would have been nice for HER to throw out a ballpark figure first...

#3 7 years ago

Start at $2500 and see what happens.

#4 7 years ago

Yup...you can ALWAYS go higher...

#5 7 years ago

It's hard to say without pics, but anything under $5500 is probably a good deal for this one. Like they said, start LOW.

#6 7 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

It would have been nice for HER to throw out a ballpark figure first...

Agreed.

I understand HEP has a year waiting list but if I wanted to get it professionally restored elsewhere what would I be looking at in cost? That figure would be nice to know on the front-end as I make an offer and make my plans.

#7 7 years ago

Sky's the limit on a restore but I would figure at least $7K with new parts and labor. Maybe more.

#8 7 years ago

I am in a smilar situation. My AFM is in better shape but I am thinking of selling it as is with another game (probably CSI) and adding cash and buying a already restored Medieval Madness.

#9 7 years ago

I like the $2500 offer. Just do it in person. If it's an insult, be prepared to go to say $3500. They are hard to find so do what you can to get it. It'll be among the last to leave my house for sure.

#10 7 years ago

be ok to go as high as 3500 but start off at $2000, then she can counter offer 2500 and you can snag it.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from maddog14:

be ok to go as high as 3500 but start off at $2000, then she can counter offer 2500 and you can snag it.

That may piss her off and she won't sell you the game, she probably has looked and seen what they go for better to point out what it will cost to rebuild it since it is a base game and offer her 32-35.
To me this is starting low
Better to be upfront I have made offers on games and told people they can get more for the game but that is what it is worth to me because of the parts and time to rebuild it.

#12 7 years ago

I agree with tracelifter, don't make a crazy lowball. Not if you really want it. If you're honestly gonna walk away if you can't score it for some wild under-market price, then go for it, what do you have to lose? She can hang up on you and life will go on. But don't say "$2500 ... oh wait, I meant $5000".

Unless it's just TRASHED and utter garbage the reality is paying under $5000 for a routed AFM is a good deal these days. For better or for worse.

#13 7 years ago

You might as well start off in the $4000 range if you realy want it. They are a high price machine. And I'm sure if you asked to buy it she went online to ebay (aka the price guide to the world) and is going to expect top dollar for it. But you never know.

#14 7 years ago

Remember - it's always seemingly OK to try to get the lowest price possible - but it's a mortal sin for a seller to get the highest. I'd go for $1K

#15 7 years ago

I told her that AFM is a very nice title if it is good shape but that condition trumps everything. I also told her that my goal is to bring it up to its former glory. Her deceased husband purchased the pin and I wanted her to know that I'm doing this for my personal collection. I'm not sure if that will count for anything but you never know.

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

Agreed.
I understand HEP has a year waiting list but if I wanted to get it professionally restored elsewhere what would I be looking at in cost? That figure would be nice to know on the front-end as I make an offer and make my plans.

Hi Darin,

Ballpark costs for a professional high-end restoration will be something like the following for an AFM:

Base game cost: $5,500 or so for a routed game, price depends upon condition
Restoration Labor: $2,500 - $4,000
Professional Playfield Restoration: $1,000
Parts: $1,500 (New Ramps, Cabinet Art, Plastics, Chrome Kit, etc.)
Professional Board Work: $300
Shipping: $400 X 2 if you have to ship to a restorer and then have the completed game shipped to you

So as you can see for a high-end professional restoration on an AFM with all the bells and whistles you will fly past $10K and could easily end up in the neighborhood of $12K + without any problem at all.

Gord

#17 7 years ago

If you are paying someone to restore it you will not come out in the end unless you steal it. I would happily pay $4000-$4500 and fix it up myself. Guys saying $2500, sign me up for 10 of them for now. I will be back for more later.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I agree with tracelifter, don't make a crazy lowball

I also agree,to low may not go.

#19 7 years ago

If you offered me $2500 for my AFM after doing your research, I'd simply elect not to do business with you. I think the estimates on high end restorations I've seen here are in the ballpark. If you really want that specific pin, you can reach out to Hutchins or Keller and see if they'll source it for you. To some extent, it's important to start with a machine that has "the right things wrong" if you want to get a top-quality restoration out the other end, IMO.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

#20 7 years ago

You are not the first person to call with an offer on it. She knows exactly what it is worth

When you come in with an insulting offer like $2500, be prepared for her to no longer be willing to do business with you at all.

I used to be an OP and when people would call and throw me low ball numbers, I would never call them back again, ever.

Their number would be on my shit-list board for future reference.

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from tracelifter:

That may piss her off and she won't sell you the game, she probably has looked and seen what they go for better to point out what it will cost to rebuild it since it is a base game and offer her 32-35.
To me this is starting low
Better to be upfront I have made offers on games and told people they can get more for the game but that is what it is worth to me because of the parts and time to rebuild it.

Yeah, this is why I wanted to know what it may cost me if I go the macked-out full resto. I already have MM which is in really nice condition but is a collector's quality item. My point is, I don't really HAVE to HAVE this pin. It would be nice, especially if I can get it for a good price point. That being said, the lady seems really nice and I don't want to 'steal' it or manipulate a widow just so I get a good deal. I don't think the Man upstairs likes that kind of behavior very well.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

I don't think the Man upstairs likes that kind of behavior very well.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

Yeah, this is why I wanted to know what it may cost me if I go the macked-out full resto. I already have MM which is in really nice condition but is a collector's quality item. My point is, I don't really HAVE to HAVE this pin. It would be nice, especially if I can get it for a good price point. That being said, the lady seems really nice and I don't want to 'steal' it or manipulate a widow just so I get a good deal. I don't think the Man upstairs likes that kind of behavior very well.

If you are serious with this post ^^^ Then you had better give her 6 grand so you can sleep and not worry about going to hell !

AFM in playable shape is worth 6 k all day .

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

If you are serious with this post ^^^ Then you had better give her 6 grand so you can sleep and not worry about going to hell !
AFM in playable shape is worth 6 k all day .

Come on Jim......"He'll ain't a bad place to be!!!" Or atleast I've heard that somewhere before. (:

I'd offer her $4500 and see what she says. You can ways come up a lil and still be ahead of the game.

#25 7 years ago

My strategy is to ask what is the best price you can give me, then offer a little less.
You never know what someone may say.

kj

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from McCune:

If you are serious with this post ^^^ Then you had better give her 6 grand so you can sleep and not worry about going to hell !
AFM in playable shape is worth 6 k all day .

I am serious which is exactly why I started this post. Like I told her, I want to give a fair price but not get gouged in the process. I simply did not have a good idea on where to start with my asking price. For the most part I've seen the $2500 - $4500 range or so in these posts. I'm starting to get a little clearer picture of where the price may be. There has been a $5k and your $6k as well so I'd like to hear some more thoughts if anyone else out there in pinside land has 'em.

#27 7 years ago

Consider what you could sell it for if you bought and immediately turned around and sold it to be the price you're looking for. We are not privy to its condition (and I don't think you are either just yet), so it's hard to apply too much authority, but if its as I imagine, I'd say $5k to $6k is a fair price in the current market. Probably closer to $6k.

I think if you were to post a FS: AFM in this forum at under $5k, it would see before you could post pictures.

#28 7 years ago

When they won't give a price, you offer about half what you'd be willing to pay with a "I'd really be happy with $X". That's all they deserve when they put it on you. It's up to them to start the negotiation if they really want to sell.

The last person I left an offer on, I told them half of what I thought I could reasonably sell it for. I told them right out that I wouldn't be keeping it and it wasn't worth moving/fixing/warranty if I couldn't double my money. It's not like jewelry or small electronics.

She has to be out of her house at the end of the month. We'll see if I get a call.

OTOH, if it was something I really wanted, I'd offer exactly my max and tell them I wasn't up for haggling. I'd also bring it in benjamins and fan it on the glass. When you take your hand off that money, most negotiators simply collapse when the green is there to be grabbed.

#29 7 years ago

Yeah, I'd like to take the trip over there this weekend with cash in hand and a socket set in my Suburban. We've got a lot planned tomorrow and Sunday as a family but I may try to squeeze it in. I will have a few hours of drive time but probably worth it if I can finish the deal while I'm there.

#30 7 years ago

Start with an arm and a leg. You could always up it to a left nut!

#31 7 years ago

I paid $4300 for a nice routed one. Then found out I didn't care for it. Was good trading bait though!

#32 7 years ago
Quoted from Rush1169:

I think if you were to post a FS: AFM in this forum at under $5k, it would see before you could post pictures.

True. In a heartbeat. In this market, an AFM that isn't an absolute beater will go for 5-6K in a New York minute.

Post edited by swf127 : I spell good.

#33 7 years ago

I personally wouldn't go the "restoration by a 3rd party" route unless money was no object and you knew it would be a keeper. You would never get your money back out of it if you sell. I would be happy to get an AFM in the condition you described for 4k-5k and just shop it out and you'd have a nice AFM worth probably 6500.

#34 7 years ago
Quoted from swf127:

True. In a heartbeat. An AFM that isn't an absolute beater will go for 6K in a New York minute.

I'm not sure. We've had some really nice AFM's hover around the 8-9k mark. I think some were pulled due to the summer season and may be re-listed in the next month or so. What was the final price that perfect and blinged out prototype AFM went for on EBay maybe six weeks ago? I thought it was under 10k?

I think the general price range on this title is somewhat unknown; doesn't seem as well fixed as MM. (Don't get me wrong, I'd love an AFM to pair with my RFM.)

#35 7 years ago

seriously, if the seller does not start off the pricing, and they leave it up to you to make an offer. start off low.

You can't buy and sell at the same time.

Pull out your pimp roll and plunk down your starting bid. If she says no, then ask them what they would take. If she says I'm not sure, Tell her you have about 500 more reasons for her to say yes and see what she says. You can always go up, but you cant go back down.

Trust me, she wont feel insulted by a two gee offer, she isn't some crusty old op. Its not like she is saying I want 6 large and you offer her two. If there is no opening bid, then it is okay to start low.

#36 7 years ago

would expect 5500 to 6000 is going rate, anything less a good deal.

1 week later
#37 7 years ago

I played this AFM yesterday and spoke with the owner.

The pin actually plays better than I remember the first time around and overall it is in pretty decent shape except for some very major wear around the scoop. (It makes me wonder how wide a field of damage a Cliffy will cover.) The batteries in there do show some corrosion but luckily I did not see any on the board. The expiration date on the batteries was January 2007. She had no idea there was even batteries in it. I did strongly suggest she change out the batteries and use a little vinegar on a Q-tip and wipe the leads on the holder a little. I mean, I want her taking care of MY AFM (hopefully).

I think there is a very good chance the owner will sell it to me eventually and there were no price concerns on her part. This pin has a lot of sentimental value to her and she is simply not emotionally ready to part with it. I'm going to give her a ring in a couple of weeks and we are going to stay in relatively close contact without bugging her but staying fairly constant. She understands this plan and seemed fine with it.

I guess this thread is put on hold from my end for at least 2 more weeks. I really hope someday I can bring this pin home. I had a lot of fun on it. She has it set to 5-ball and I almost made it to Attack Mars.

#38 7 years ago

"I'm going to give her a ring in a couple of weeks"

Don't you think this is a bit premature? I mean you guys just met and all

Too soon? Sorry, it's late.

#39 7 years ago
Quoted from wxforecaster:

"I'm going to give her a ring in a couple of weeks"
Don't you think this is a bit premature? I mean you guys just met and all
Too soon? Sorry, it's late.

#40 7 years ago

I think its cool that your trying to offer her a fair price, it means something to her with her husband and all, But its time for it to move on and be restored to its former beauty . And your the person to do it.. Please let us know how you go mate, sounds like its got your name all over it. Good luck really hope you can do the deal.

#41 7 years ago

Have you talked price yet or just talking about timeline and possibilities for now?

I'm curious to know where you're going to start if as you said in your first post "She put it on me to figure out a fair price."

#42 7 years ago

A fair offer is something both you and she feel good about. The people who are saying "this game is 5k and 6k all day long" may have an agenda. The assumption is if you offer 2.5k or 3, she'll be insulted an never do business with you. Maybe an owner of AFM on pinside might feel that way and I suspect they don't particularly want to see you walk away with an AFM that low. She has the same ability to research the market just like you. If people were beating down her door for this pin, it would be sold. If you're ok with watching 2-3k evaporate because AFM owners are dictating the going rate, then by all means go in there and say "Here's $5,500".

If it were me, I'd go in and BRIEFLY explain what you'd need to do get it in the condition you'd like it to be, tell her what the average price is for a DECENT condition AFM and offer her 3k for it. Offer to send her a picture of her husband's restored pin when you are done.

If you get it for that, by all means post it here.

#43 7 years ago
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:

may have an agenda

They might. But I guarantee if someone lists a blown out resto-ready AFM for 5500 or less it will sell here in under 10 mins

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from herbertbsharp:

They might. But I guarantee if someone lists a blown out resto-ready AFM for 5500 or less it will sell here in under 10 mins

I agree. Pinside is not the place you want to buy an AFM if you are looking to avoid markup. This is the place to come if you are looking to sell one.

#45 7 years ago
Quoted from VolunteerPin:

I was recently on vacation and came across an AFM. I did not take photos (sadly) but it was in what I would consider fair condition only. It was very dirty. The cab had some fade and marks. I don't remember if the playfield had any significant wear or not as I was not really thinking about trying to buy it. The playfield, of course was very dirty also.
The flippers needed rebuilt and worked only partially.
At least one martian did not work.
This was my first time (and only) ever playing AFM not on Pinball Arcade and I was pretty much underwhelmed because of some of these issues.
Anyhow, on a whim, I called the owner of the establishment today and she is considering selling the machine to me. She has no idea what the pin is worth and put it on me to figure out a fair price.
I did mention to her that I could trade one of my other titles (namely POTC or HS + cash) but she did not seem interested. (I did make a thread about possibly offering POTC for the AFM and the consensus was that would be a good trade.)
So, I told her I would do some research and get back to her. I want to offer a fair price but I also desire to fully restore this pin to its former glory which means maybe paying somebody to do it for me. With that in mind, I need to consider how much it is worth as a project/routed pin.
I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks for your input and experience.
Darin

Darin:

Here is my AFM story. Your mileage may vary.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/should-i-or-shouldnt-i-have-bought-this-afm

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pics-of-my-afm

Dan

#46 7 years ago

Looks nice, Dan and a nice grab. I think with patience and some persistence I will end up with a decent AFM at a nice price.

#47 7 years ago

I'll throw my hat in the ring and say $4K would be a very fair offer for both parties. Assuming all parts are there and somewhat working. It's easy (but time consuming) to restore the cabinet. Grab a Mirco playfield for a grand and then drop another 3 grand in mods and you will be good to go
Make it better than new, that's what I did with my TZ and IJ.
Good Luck, and hopefully congrats!

Kevin

#48 7 years ago
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:

A fair offer is something both you and she feel good about. The people who are saying "this game is 5k and 6k all day long" may have an agenda. The assumption is if you offer 2.5k or 3, she'll be insulted an never do business with you. Maybe an owner of AFM on pinside might feel that way and I suspect they don't particularly want to see you walk away with an AFM that low. She has the same ability to research the market just like you. If people were beating down her door for this pin, it would be sold. If you're ok with watching 2-3k evaporate because AFM owners are dictating the going rate, then by all means go in there and say "Here's $5,500".
If it were me, I'd go in and BRIEFLY explain what you'd need to do get it in the condition you'd like it to be, tell her what the average price is for a DECENT condition AFM and offer her 3k for it. Offer to send her a picture of her husband's restored pin when you are done.
If you get it for that, by all means post it here.

Like to hear your thoughts on MM and MB. Seems these days AFM gets beat-up for anything over $6k for routed one. But if a routed MM or MB is being sold for $10k and $8k respectively, then it's just fine.

"Give me a break"

#49 7 years ago
Quoted from vcloverjr:

Like to hear your thoughts on MM and MB. Seems these days AFM gets beat-up for anything over $6k for routed one. But if a routed MM or MB is being sold for $10k and $8k respectively, then it's just fine.
"Give me a break"

Since you are an owner of an AFM, you probably have your own thoughts on the matter.

#50 7 years ago

Always try and get the seller under such circumstances to name the price first.

Keep passing the buck politely till stalemate.

If she won't name a price, I agree on what others have mentioned with respect to bringing a reasonable offer vs. a lowball (so as not to be blacklisted).

Because if she has that newfangled contraption called the Information Super Highway, here's what you're up against:

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