(Topic ID: 266258)

Round 4 - Greatest Pinball Game of All-Time - Tournament Edition 2020


By AFM95

87 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 179 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 83 days ago by chuckwurt
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Round 4 - Elite Eight Voting”

    • (1) Pirates of the Caribbean (JJP) VS 204 votes
      11%
    • (8) Lord of the Rings 247 votes
      14%
    • (2) Medieval Madness VS 238 votes
      13%
    • (7) Twilight Zone 234 votes
      13%
    • (3) Attack From Mars VS 251 votes
      14%
    • (11) Indiana Jones (Williams) 202 votes
      11%
    • (4) Monster Bash VS 187 votes
      10%
    • (5) Jurassic Park (Stern) 259 votes
      14%

    (Multiple choice - 1822 votes by 520 Pinsiders)

    This poll has been closed.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 7 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    Roy-Square-6 (resized).jpg
    Screenshot_20200413-125018_Gmail (resized).jpg
    Record by Era (resized).JPG
    Record by Company (resized).JPG
    Round 3 Results (resized).JPG
    Round 4 Bracket Elite Eight (resized).JPG
    Round 4 Matchups (resized).JPG

    There are 179 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 4.
    #1 87 days ago

    Final Four voting can be found here:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/final-four-greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition
    _____________________________________________________________________________

    Good Evening Everyone,

    We're down to the elite eight, where you'll have four matchups to vote on. Voting will end at 10pm EST/7pm PST on Tuesday night. Stats, results, and brackets are below.

    For those of you who missed how this started, or are not familiar with the rules, please see this post:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/greatest-pinball-game-of-all-time-tournament-edition#post-5573218
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Statistics:

    1. 415 Pinsiders voted a total of 3016 times. That's a total of 7.27 votes per person (8 matchups). Thank you to everyone who voted.

    2. Biggest upset, was #11 Indiana Jones (Williams) over #6 Iron Maiden.

    3. Medieval Madness won by the biggest margin over Star Trek (Stern) - 75% to 25%.

    4. Records by Pinball Company (Winning Percentage): (See screenshot below)

    5. Records by Era (Winning Percentage): (See screenshot below)
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Enjoy tonight's early voting!

    Round 4 Matchups (resized).JPGRound 4 Bracket Elite Eight (resized).JPGRound 3 Results (resized).JPGRecord by Company (resized).JPG
    Record by Era (resized).JPG

    #2 87 days ago

    Gonna be some close ones this round.

    #3 87 days ago

    It looks like tp's Round 3 rant about Medieval Madness has gave Twilight Zone a super strong start.

    Quoted from tp:

    Destroy the castle, now do it again, and again, and again,and again, and again,and again,and again, and again, and again, and again, and again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and if you get bored of that we can destroy the spaceship, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again and again, and again , and again, and again and again and again and again, and again, and again, and again, because it's my #1 and #2 list of things I like to do over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... can I please have my votes back? Please.

    #4 87 days ago
    Quoted from AFM95:

    It looks like tp's Round 3 rant about Medieval Madness has gave Twilight Zone a super strong start.

    Whoa!!! Just saw this...

    Maybe people forget that TZ was #1 forever ( it seemed) on IPDB, without any remakes, different versions, etc.

    Very strong game...other voting seems to be going as prior rounds...

    #5 87 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Whoa!!! Just saw this...
    Maybe people forget that TZ was #1 forever ( it seemed) on IPDB, without any remakes, different versions, etc.
    Very strong game...other voting seems to be going as prior rounds...

    A lot of strong games in the final eight. Anything can happen.

    #6 87 days ago

    Not sure if I love the voting or your stats analysis better. Thanks for doing this, great fun.

    #7 87 days ago

    Thank you Yelobird. I myself enjoy the stats the best. It's interesting to see how each manufacturer and era stand up to its competition.

    #8 86 days ago

    Wow this will be exciting!
    Thanks for providing some fun in these times AFM95

    #9 86 days ago

    Others pulling away....what a battle between TZ and MM!!!! ...

    #10 86 days ago

    Happy Easter bump.

    #11 86 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Whoa!!! Just saw this...
    Maybe people forget that TZ was #1 forever ( it seemed) on IPDB, without any remakes, different versions, etc.
    Very strong game...other voting seems to be going as prior rounds...

    Yea, TZ and IJ are the two games that stand on their own over the test of time. No remakes to help boost their creds. That being said, MM, AFM,MB would most likely be here anyway, but, you have to wonder If the re makes help boost the number of votes.

    Pirates versus LOTR is a battle of two immersion/quest games. Pirates scarcity has got to hurt it here.

    #12 86 days ago
    Quoted from sulli10:

    Yea, TZ and IJ are the two games that stand on their own over the test of time. No remakes to help boost their creds. That being said, MM, AFM,MB would most likely be here anyway, but, you have to wonder If the re makes help boost the number of votes.
    Pirates versus LOTR is a battle of two immersion/quest games. Pirates scarcity has got to hurt it here.

    Couldn't agree more.....I own both games (POTC and LOTR), and although I love the journey of my LOTR. If I was being honest its not even a close battle with POTC...AFM and IJ was the difficult choice for me.....both just really fun games ...

    #13 86 days ago
    Quoted from Yelobird:

    Not sure if I love the voting or your stats analysis better. Thanks for doing this, great fun.

    Can't understand the Record by Pinball Company " winning percentage".

    Maybe it was explained earlier (?)

    All pins could only have participated in 4 rounds....

    Final 8 have never lost

    1-JJP
    2-Stern
    1-Williams
    4- Bally

    Is it going against their % if they "eat their own"?
    That's as close a guess that I've got.

    Missing something here...

    #14 86 days ago

    TZ vs. MM is a really tough call. Can easily justify a vote for either one.

    I seem to be in the minority though with MB over JP, and IJ over AFM.

    As to POTC vs. LOTR, I went with LOTR, but I have so few games on either of those machines that I can't say that it's really a fair analysis.

    #15 86 days ago

    Full disclosure I picked POTC, IJ, MM, and MB....the toughest choice for me was IJ versus AFM (really a coin toss)....all the others were no brainers ...

    #16 86 days ago

    I find it easier to look for what I dont like about each game. Only game I am 100% on is twilight zone.

    #17 86 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Can't understand the Record by Pinball Company " winning percentage".
    Maybe it was explained earlier (?)
    All pins could only have participated in 4 rounds....
    Final 8 have never lost
    1-JJP
    2-Stern
    1-Williams
    4- Bally
    Is it going against their % if they "eat their own"?
    Missing something here...

    Winning percentage is calculated by all matchups, not who is left. For example, JJP has had pins in 10 matchups. Their record for their 10 matchups is 6 wins, 4 losses. Winning percentage is calculated by wins/# of total matchups.

    Standings in most major sports use winning percentages to determine standings. We all know Stern would win if we just counted wins, but winning percentage evens the playing field a bit. It's not perfect - i.e. If The Big Lewbowski won its first two matchups, then lost, Dutch Pinball would have a .667 winning percentage and would be crowned the best manufacturer in the tournament. However, with one game and a little luck, the optics are obviously saying we need a bigger sample size. Same goes for Spooky. They had their two games lose right away. What if they won their first round matchups? They would have at minimum a .500 record.

    So again, not a perfect science, but it's a good way to measure Stern versus Williams, or Bally's versus JJP, etc. when opportunities aren't equal for all manufacturers.

    Sorry for the long explanation, but I hope that helps.

    #18 86 days ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    Couldn't agree more.....I own both games (POTC and LOTR), and although I love the journey of my LOTR. If I was being honest its not even a close battle with POTC...AFM and IJ was the difficult choice for me.....both just really fun games ...

    Same here. I own POTC and LOTR, love them both, but if I had to pick one... POTC all day. I would call myself a LOTR superfan too. I have a bunch of life size statues and props around my machine. Too bad these have to go against each other lol.

    #19 86 days ago
    Quoted from freeplay3:

    I find it easier to look for what I dont like about each game. Only game I am 100% on is twilight zone.

    TZ is a great game...curious what u didn't like about POTC?

    #20 86 days ago
    Quoted from AFM95:

    Winning percentage is calculated by all matchups, not who is left. For example, JJP has had pins in 10 matchups. Their record for their 10 matchups is 6 wins, 4 losses. Winning percentage is calculated by wins/# of total matchups.
    Standings in most major sports use winning percentages to determine standings. We all know Stern would win if we just counted wins, but winning percentage evens the playing field a bit. It's not perfect - i.e. If The Big Lewbowski won its first two matchups, then lost, Dutch Pinball would have a .667 winning percentage and would be crowned the best manufacturer in the tournament. However, with one game and a little luck, the optics are obviously saying we need a bigger sample size. Same goes for Spooky. They had their two games lose right away. What if they won their first round matchups? They would have at minimum a .500 record.
    So again, not a perfect science, but it's a good way to measure Stern versus Williams, or Bally's versus JJP, etc. when opportunities aren't equal for all manufacturers.
    Sorry for the long explanation, but I hope that helps.

    Helpful, but doesn't account for a " Bally eating a Bally, Stern eating Stern, etc."

    Like NFC vs. AFC , East vs West, etc. in sports.
    When NFC beats NFC, it doesn't count in conference W/L.

    I think if you looked at each manufacturer beating or losing to another, that would easily give an accurate view of which companies truly had the highest winning %.

    No biggie, and just really appreciate you doing this...something fun

    #21 86 days ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    TZ is a great game...curious what u didn't like about POTC?

    That's an easy one. Only saw it once and didnt get a chance to play it. It maybe the greatest game ever made but I can't vote for a game I never played. If the game loses because of its scarcity, that's on JJP. Before anyone complains that I'm not being fair, it definitely affects a games standings. Theme, artwork, layout, code, and of course access.
    Monster Bash was a highly sought after game. Once the remake came along, many people finally got a chance to play it and were disappointed. Cactus Canyon will be the same. If JJP starts churning out more pirates then we can see where it stands once more players can get more time on them.

    #22 86 days ago
    Quoted from freeplay3:

    That's an easy one. Only saw it once and didnt get a chance to play it. It maybe the greatest game ever made but I can't vote for a game I never played. If the game loses because of its scarcity, that's on JJP. Before anyone complains that I'm not being fair, it definitely affects a games standings. Theme, artwork, layout, code, and of course access.
    Monster Bash was a highly sought after game. Once the remake came along, many people finally got a chance to play it and were disappointed. Cactus Canyon will be the same. If JJP starts churning out more pirates then we can see where it stands once more players can get more time on them.

    I hear ya...people vote for what they know or own or possibly love As an owner of both games its not even a close battle ....

    #23 86 days ago
    Quoted from freeplay3:

    If the game loses because of its scarcity, that's on JJP. Before anyone complains that I'm not being fair, it definitely affects a games standings.

    In this case, I think scarcity helps JJPPOTC's standing. IM was considered an all-time great...until Stern released it as its first vault game. When the market became flooded with them, amazingly the game lost its luster to a lot of people.

    #24 86 days ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    I hear ya...people vote for what they know or own or possibly love As an owner of both games its not even a close battle ....

    I am fortunate that I get a lot of games. Been buying and selling for many years and there were not too many games I haven't had in my life. In the earlier rounds I did withhold on voting in some match ups if i wasn't familiar with either game. I'm sure others did the same. Why else would STTNG come as close as it did against pirates.

    #25 86 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Helpful, but doesn't account for a " Bally eating a Bally, Stern eating Stern, etc."
    Like NFC vs. AFC , East vs West, etc. in sports.
    When NFC beats NFC, it doesn't count in conference W/L.
    I think if you looked at each manufacturer beating or losing to another, that would easily give an accurate view of which companies truly had the highest winning %.
    No biggie, and just really appreciate you doing this...something fun

    Completely understand your point, but they do have conference records of NFC vs. NFC teams.
    It's actually a commonly used tie breaker in the NFL.

    With four "main" manufacturers in this tournament, it's hard to avoid each other.

    You could always comb through the results and take cannibalism out of it.

    #26 86 days ago

    Still early, but are we going to see these matchups in the final four?

    5 Jurassic Park vs 8 Lord of the Rings

    3 Attack from Mars vs 2 MM/TZ?

    Who would fair better against Attack from Mars out of the two?

    #27 86 days ago
    Quoted from AFM95:

    Still early, but are we going to see these matchups in the final four?
    5 Jurassic Park vs 8 Lord of the Rings
    3 Attack from Mars vs 2 MM/TZ?
    Who would fair better against Attack from Mars out of the two?

    I think you are right....and though I voted TZ ( as I like it personally better), I think MM will fair better against AFM.

    Still believe the 2 most dominant games in this whole thing will end up fighting for the gold (gold?) JP vs MM (though TZ will not go down easily).

    Brutal final on the horizon.....

    #28 86 days ago
    Quoted from AFM95:

    Conpletely understand your point. With four "main" manufacturers in the tournament, it's hard to avoid each other.
    You could always comb through the results and take cannibalism out of it.

    Nah.....gives me a headache (correct but NFC vs NFC W/L has nothing to do w interconference W/L). keeping it fun, as the "big 3" have consistently performed, while JJP had all 5 of its games eligible to compete...also commendable.

    Probably biggest shock for me in this whole thing is how WOZ didn't make it deeper in the brackets....

    -5
    #29 86 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    I think you are right....and though I voted TZ ( as I like it personally better), I think MM will fair better against AFM.
    Still believe the 2 most dominant games in this whole thing will end up fighting for the gold (gold?) JP vs MM (though TZ will not go down easily).
    Brutal final on the horizon.....

    By far the best game on that list is POTC...it just hasn't been played by enough people....LOTR can't hold a candle to that game...I've only put a few games on JPLE and it was fun, but not in the same league ...

    #30 86 days ago
    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    Probably biggest shock for me in this whole thing is how WOZ didn't make it deeper in the brackets....

    100% agree with this. However, matching up with Indiana Jones didn't do it any favors.

    WOZ is one of my favorites, and even with all the early problems it had, in my opinion, it changed the landscape of pinball.

    #31 86 days ago

    MM takes the lead over TZ. 115-114.

    #32 86 days ago
    Quoted from AFM95:

    MM takes the lead over TZ. 115-114.

    Long way to go on the only race left..

    #33 86 days ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    By far the best game on that list is POTC...it just hasn't been played by enough people....LOTR can't hold a candle to that game...I've only put a few games on JPLE and it was fun, but not in the same league ...

    Point taken on your opinion..I leave it at that..

    #34 86 days ago
    Quoted from PtownPin:

    By far the best game on that list is POTC...it just hasn't been played by enough people....LOTR can't hold a candle to that game...I've only put a few games on JPLE and it was fun, but not in the same league ...

    Funny thing is, most people only played a few games on POTC and a ton on JP pro or premium. A lot of those people swear JP is the best game ever.

    I have a JP prem. I only played 20 games on it before it went on route. I didnt care for it mainly because I didnt like the DE version. I won't say it's the worst game because I didnt like it on a handful of games. I also wouldn't say it's the best game if I really liked it. 20 games is not enough to form an opinion on any game. Hopefully in the future we will see some JJP pirates produced again. I would definitely get 1 for the route and get enough plays to form a legit opinion.

    #35 86 days ago

    Rofl. Would anybody honestly rather come home to a LOTR than a pirates?

    Here in Sweden a used pirates nets twice the amount of a rings game.

    10
    #36 86 days ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Rofl. Would anybody honestly rather come home to a LOTR than a pirates?
    Here in Sweden a used pirates nets twice the amount of a rings game.

    Yes, I'd honestly rather have a LOTR to play, this poll has nothing to do with selling price.

    It amazes me how hard a time some people have wrapping their head around the fact that someone's opinion differs from theirs.

    A friend of mine loves, I mean loves, Old Chicago, I think it's a steaming heap, but that doesn't make his opinion 'wrong'.

    #37 86 days ago

    Yep, totally personal. TAF over AFM for me in round 3. IJ over AFM ths round. It makes me think I need to revisit AFM. Can't wait for barcades to open up!

    #38 86 days ago

    As stated, the remakes will skew the results in their favour, but it's still cool to see the battle!

    Also, I agree that MM and ATM are center bash over and over, where TZ and Indy make use of the entire pf in creative ways. TZ is a fabulous game without the power ball, but his unique feature puts the game over the top, best game ever made. MM has the greatest single toy (the drawbridge gate), but she's a one trick pony after that.

    #39 86 days ago
    Quoted from Dr-pin:

    Rofl. Would anybody honestly rather come home to a LOTR than a pirates?
    Here in Sweden a used pirates nets twice the amount of a rings game.

    Having owned and now sold both I would go with Lord of the Rings. Pirates has more shots and toys but its ruleset is severely hampered by a lack of licensed assets. All of Lord of the Rings main modes, mulitballs, and wizard modes are filled with assets from the films which are each brilliantly told as their own mini story.

    Pirates is an amazing pin but its main modes (the chapter modes) feel dull in my opinion due to only ever hearing Gibbs callouts versus multiple actor callouts timed to animations unique to that mode. All of Pirates multiballs are also very generic with no stages and only the same callout voice ever being heard. Pirates does have 5 wizard modes but again only Gibbs callouts and for some reason they are only 1 ball which makes them disappointingly short.

    If JJP had the rights to use actor video and actor audio across all 5 films Pirates would easily go down as the GOAT in my opinion as it has everything else going for it.

    #40 86 days ago
    Quoted from Tranquilize:

    As stated, the remakes will skew the results in their favour, but it's still cool to see the battle!

    MM and AFM were highly regarded before there were remakes. I for one hope TZ knocks out MM.

    #41 86 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    MM and AFM were highly regarded before there were remakes. I for one hope TZ knocks out MM.

    With you 100%...don't know if it will, but definitely a game that deserves it...down to the wire for sure on this one...(my AFMr nervously awaits the outcome)

    #42 86 days ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    MM and AFM were highly regarded before there were remakes. I for one hope TZ knocks out MM.

    Quoted from MK6PIN:

    With you 100%...don't know if it will, but definitely a game that deserves it...down to the wire for sure on this one...

    I also am rooting for TZ. I am one of those guys who think it is the GOAT. Certainly was a game changer in the 90’s.

    #43 86 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Having owned and now sold both I would go with Lord of the Rings. Pirates has more shots and toys but its ruleset is severely hampered by a lack of licensed assets. All of Lord of the Rings main modes, mulitballs, and wizard modes are filled with assets from the films which are each brilliantly told as their own mini story.
    Pirates is an amazing pin but its main modes (the chapter modes) feel dull in my opinion due to only ever hearing Gibbs callouts versus multiple actor callouts timed to animations unique to that mode. All of Pirates multiballs are also very generic with no stages and only the same callout voice ever being heard. Pirates does have 5 wizard modes but again only Gibbs callouts and for some reason they are only 1 ball which makes them disappointingly short.
    If JJP had the rights to use actor video and actor audio across all 5 films Pirates would easily go down as the GOAT in my opinion as it has everything else going for it.

    Some good points. If only Pirates had Hobbit type assets.

    #44 86 days ago

    I have an AFMr and a TZ right now; I had an original MM for about a year or so. All three of the games are superb machines.

    MM suffers in the eyes of many due to the scoring being somewhat unbalanced. Many tournament players do not particularly like MM. The scoring is really the games only weakness though.

    TZ suffers in the eyes of many because it is a high maintenance game. Some people dislike the stop and go gameplay style of it as well...it has so many interactive toys that the ball stops constantly. This doesn’t bother me one bit, I love all the jam packed features TZ has and the theme integration is really the best of the B/W era other than maybe TAF.

    AFM has the most balanced code of the three, really superior software to MM in particular as AFM has three distinct viable strategies to pursue in tourney play. Some people are not a fan of the artwork on AFM, but it doesn’t bother me.

    My personal rating of the three head to head is TZ #1, AFM #2, and MM #3. All that said, modern games just have so much deeper code that it is hard to compare them. Games like BM66 and Dialed IN are just so loaded with things to do and ways to approach the game play. Of course, complexity doesn’t mean better, sometime a simple game is what someone wants to play (hence, MM is so highly regarded).

    #45 86 days ago
    Quoted from freeplay3:

    I have a JP prem. I only played 20 games on it before it went on route. I didnt care for it mainly because I didnt like the DE version.

    Just curious, how does the DE JP impact your opinion on Stern JP?

    #46 86 days ago

    I've played both LOTR and JJPPOTC a good amount and even though neither are personal favorites, I prefer LOTR. I think it has better flow and I like the code better. POTC is an absolutely stunning machine to look at, but not my jam.

    #47 86 days ago
    Quoted from sulli10:

    ... Pirates versus LOTR is a battle of two immersion/quest games. Pirates scarcity has got to hurt it here.

    Yep - if you haven't had the opportunity to really experience all that Pirates has to offer in a home environment, you're not likely to value it as much as it deserves.

    #48 86 days ago

    Pirates is cool but Lotr wins on theme immersion alone. I also think its a better shooter. All these pins are top notch, there are no losers its all preference.

    #49 86 days ago
    Quoted from DBLM:

    Just curious, how does the DE JP impact your opinion on Stern JP?

    It's still jurrassic park. Not my favorite theme. I admit I didnt give it a fair chance. I do enjoy the POTC movies and if the chance comes along for me to really beat on a JJP it will help me get into quicker. That's always been my attitude towards pins. I really wanted to like Wonka a lot. I enjoy the game but if I sold it tomorrow I wouldn't feel the need to get another...but that's another thread, several actually.

    #50 86 days ago

    Looks like MM is bringing fortitude to the castle....
    ( 2 days on this one)

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