(Topic ID: 296594)

Rottendog system 11b no voice sounds

By CaptainNeo

2 years ago


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  • 33 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by pindel
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

Friend has an issue with a cyclone with a new rottendog system 11b voices. Plays music files fine. But none of the voice samples play in game or in test. They worked fine when the old board worked. Never worked once rottendog board was installed. Music is fine. Sound test isnt.

I have seen people had problems where sound was loud and distorted with rottendog boards

#2 2 years ago

I'd check the cables between the MPU and the sound board. Music and voices are generated by different boards on Earthshaker . Mine was missing all voices, replaced MPU with Rottendog and now it works.

Any diagnostic bongs happening from the sound board? https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Boot_Up_Diagnostic_Tones_for_the_D-11297.2C_D-11298.2C_and_D-11581_Sound_Boards

#3 2 years ago

Check the PIA chips. I’ve had this issue before on a Pinbot with the same board

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from DK:

Check the PIA chips. I’ve had this issue before on a Pinbot with the same board

Hmmm. . . .Rotten dog has the daughter board that does the voices, I would make sure everything is connected well including the audio "mixing cable" from the daughter board. If that is not connected there would be no voices.

#7 2 years ago

is the daughter board nest on top of the MPU board? what does that look like? I wonder if that is missing?

#8 2 years ago

It sits on top of mpu. Connects to sound board

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#9 2 years ago

i'll double check this aspect of it. does it connect board to board or is it all connectors. because all connectors have been reset about 10 times, and wiggled around. But if it nests into the other board like a sandwich with a solid connector, that might be a thing.

#10 2 years ago

Those are the connections from the mpu to the board.

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#11 2 years ago

I thought the daughter board was only for 11_ and 11A games. Cyclone is a 11B game.

Can you get some pictures of the MPU and sound board connected?

#12 2 years ago

Rottendog has two different implementations of the System 11 CPU board.

  • The initial implementation (MPU004 or MPU011C) implements the game logic on the main board and the speech/sound logic on the daughter board. The main board supports Data East and System 11C. System 11N/11A/11B is supported with the daughter board. The CVSD is implemented using an alternate CVSD (to the original Harris 55564/55536). This board is mostly no longer available.
  • The current implementation (MPU9211) implements everything on the single board. This board only supports Williams System 9/11N/11A/11B/11C. As with the previous implementation the CVSD is implemented using an alternate CVSD. Balance between speech and sound is implemented using a potentiometer.

Williams implemented different parts of the entire sound package in different places.

  • Background music is always generated by the separate sound board. For most System 11 games it is the YM2151 and YM3012 that does the work. For System 11 games the background music is generated on the separate sound board but the signal amplification is done by the main board.
  • Speech and sound effects are generated where the software author and hardware implementation decided and supported it. Most sound boards do not have the CVSD lane populated so CVSD generated speech is done by the main board. I think every sound board has the DAC lane populated so sound effects can be generated on either the sound board or the main board. The DAC generates the "bong" which is why it is always populated on the sound board - in order for the board to indicate it has correctly started with the bong.
#13 2 years ago

he has no daughter board at all. his sound roms are right on the main board.

#14 2 years ago

Pic of board with no speech

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#15 2 years ago

^^^^^ This is his board ^^^^^^^^^^

he also says the sound chips that say speech on them, are on the sound board that is off on it's own. They both say music/speech.

#16 2 years ago

Sound board

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#17 2 years ago

which all sounds and speech were working fine with the original board before it took a shit.

#18 2 years ago

What is wrong with the original MPU?

#20 2 years ago

bump for your thoughts on this version of the rottendog board?

#21 2 years ago

How about swapping the short ribbon cable around so the red wire is on the left on both boards? Try to rule out the ribbon cable as a suspect.

#23 2 years ago

Time to replace that Rottendog with a new board we know would be tested before it shipped.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/dumbass-test-and-reproduction-pcbs/page/10

#24 2 years ago

I think I would.swap the Hitachi 6821 that is in U109 of the sound section with the one in U38 of the switch matrix. I can't tell which brand is in U38, but if the speech works then you may have the switch matrix not work. So problem should follow.

#25 2 years ago

can't swap boards because we don't have another one. Rottendog is known to have these sound issues with system 11b. Guess it followed to this version of board too.

#26 2 years ago

Actually, I thought the speech issue was only when the daughter board was used with 11 and 11A games.

Just can just be a bad PIA, which is why I suggested swapping U109 with U38 on the same Rottendog board.

All in all, I was suggesting to sell back the Rottendog and buy one of the Dumbass boards, which we know get tested before shippimg.

#27 2 years ago

can't, he bought it off ebay. Only way you can seem to get rottendog boards anymore.

#28 2 years ago

I have no faith in the Rottendog board, especially now that the original guy manufactured the board has retired. Any Rottendog boards found these days are either until untested or have issues. It will be rare to find a working board. Sell it on Ebay or Pinside.

Buy the board from @dumbass, as we know he has very good support and stands behind his tested boards.

#29 2 years ago

Has to be the Rottendog having issues. As previously said, the speech call outs are generally generated from the main mpu. My whirlwind had the tiniest amount of acid on 2 SCRs directly above the battery holder and every once In a while would go through a crazed cycle of saying “well lookie here bye crackle! Whirlwind!” In a distorted voice repeatedly once it started until the game was shut down. Replaced those and cleaned entire area and it’s worked perfect since. With WW also being 11B I’m betting the Rottendog MPU is the issue.

4 months later
#30 2 years ago

DumbAss I echo all the thanks you’ve earned with your work on these machines. I’m hopeful I can get on your list for a Cyclone board! Thanks again!

3 months later
#31 2 years ago

After some research I finally have most of my first gen mpu9211 boards fixed. Various post pointed to adding a 10k resister to the aux sound board for reducing unbearable sound volume. The board was basically unusable new out of the box. The newer gen boards have a 2nd sound pot added below c112 on the mpu. I tried adding 10k to c112 and it works great. I also tried lower values but this was the winner. As others have stated, the single sound pot seems irrelevant since no difference in adjustment. However some said it needs to be turned bunches. I hooked a small flathead bit in my drill and went to town. I finally made a difference. This allowed me to balance out the sound. You may be missing half of your sounds like me because of one volume way to loud and the other way low. After 2 Years I’m ready to put this baby to good use. Now on to finding out the display is out on another nib 9211.

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9 months later
#32 1 year ago

After some research I finally have most of my first gen mpu9211 boards fixed. Various post pointed to adding a 10k resister to the aux sound board for reducing unbearable sound volume. The board was basically unusable new out of the box. The newer gen boards have a 2nd sound pot added below c112 on the mpu. I tried adding 10k to c112 and it works great. I also tried lower values but this was the winner. As others have stated, the single sound pot seems irrelevant since no difference in adjustment. However some said it needs to be turned bunches. I hooked a small flathead bit in my drill and went to town. I finally made a difference. This allowed me to balance out the sound. You may be missing half of your sounds like me because of one volume way to loud and the other way low. After 2 Years I’m ready to put this baby to good use. Now on to finding out the display is out on another nib 9211.

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#33 1 year ago

Important to know how to test your 13n10L

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