(Topic ID: 103552)

Rottendog Data East Power Supply Board design issue


By markmon

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by cody_chunn
  • Topic is favorited by 22 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

I emailed Jim at Rottendog, but didn't get a response so I guess I'll post here about this.

But I have a Guns N Roses with a new rottendog power supply board. I installed updated speakers into the machine. The sub I installed requires more power to drive it which requires turning the vol knob up higher. When I do this, the machine sound starts cutting out. It's much worse when multiball starts or a lot is happening on the machine.

I tracked this down to the unregulated 12vdc being a bit weak to the audio board. When I traced this back, it did wire correctly to CN6 pin 6 labelled +12VU. But that meters around 11.5v for me. When I meter the test point labelled +12VU, it meters around 14.5v. The test point C15 which is 12v *regulated* meters 11.5v. When sound is going crazy, the voltage drops down to under 6v. Metering test point C15, the regulated 12v shows the same drop as at the sound board. It appears to me that the rottendog board has reversed the regulated vs unregulated 12v.

I thought maybe my board was defective, so I bought another. It's the same way. I consider this a major flaw with the board design. It may be ok for some cases but over taxing the regulated circuit has negative effects as seen here. This is something i think i can fix by cutting traces and running jumpers so that the correct circuits attach to the correct pins. It seems the 12vdc regulated only powers the dmd on this board.

By the way, putting in a regular data east power board does solve the audio problem and everything runs fine.

#2 5 years ago

Ok I hacked the boards to work around this problem. This requires cutting 2 traces and running 2 jumper wires. This puts the two circuits to where they should go. Here are pictures.

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#3 5 years ago

Not the first time people have had issues with these boards. I've been using originals and X-Pins when the originals have lived their life. I can happily say that any issues I've had with those Brett has been very helpful in acknowledging the problem and shipping me replacement boards.

#4 5 years ago

Nice work around.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

I emailed Jim at Rottendog, but didn't get a response so I guess I'll post here about this.

He's busy moving to Florida.

#6 5 years ago

I wonder is this just for the Data East power supply boards or do his Bally/Williams power boards have this issue also ?

#7 5 years ago

holy shit; that's a major fux up.
IMHO; he owes you a fixed board.

#8 5 years ago

Why would he owe markmon a board? He modified the speakers so he had to modify the board. If the machine was left stock I am sure the board provided adequate power.

#9 5 years ago

People install custom speakers all the time. Why all of a sudden is this situation special? This is actually the first I've heard of this type of issue with custom speakers.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from windsoreight:

Why would he owe markmon a board? He modified the speakers so he had to modify the board. If the machine was left stock I am sure the board provided adequate power.

Actually that's absolutely not the case. Cranking the volume would have displayed the symptom. Changing the speakers didn't cause the problem. It only made me want to crank the volume higher. This used more power on the 12v. The under powered regulated circuit isn't made for this type of power draw. The Dmd was being over powered. The board had the circuits wrong. I don't need new boards as my change solved it completely I believe. But the design needs to be fixed.

Quoted from Zitt:

holy shit; that's a major fux up.
IMHO; he owes you a fixed board.

I don't need another board. They're all working great with the changes.

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

It appears to me that the rottendog board has reversed the regulated vs unregulated 12v.

Quoted from windsoreight:

Why would he owe markmon a board?

Simply put - the board was designed with improper voltage rails - not to spec of the original board. Designing a "replacement" board must require verification that it exceeds the specs of the NOS board it's replacing. It's clear that Rottendog did NOT validate their design before offering it for purchase.

#12 5 years ago

I have the same issues Markmon was having. I'm running a Xpin power supply and pinball pro speaker kit. There was a thread about some other guys having the same problem as well but nobody noted what power supply and speakers they were useing.

Wish I had the stock power supply to test and see if it helps.

Found the other thread. It is names guns n roses sound problem.

1 month later
#13 5 years ago

Markmon did this mod on my board and it fixed my failing 12 volt problem. The game sound no longer cuts out when in multiball , magnets on, all flippers, ect. Works perfect. Game is GNR with pinball pro sound upgrade and Rottendog power supply. I have a extra board if anyone needs. First crack goes to a Pinsider who started a different thread with same problem. Pm me if interested and the other Pinsider does not respond.

Thanks Markmon!

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from PinRob:

I wonder is this just for the Data East power supply boards or do his Bally/Williams power boards have this issue also ?

I believe it may be all as sometimes my Getaway has a similar problem if volume too high. Game has rottendog power supply and pinball pro sound upgrade.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from MJW:

I believe it may be all as sometimes my Getaway has a similar problem if volume too high. Game has rottendog power supply and pinball pro sound upgrade.

The getaway issue is different. The power boards in WPC are nothing like these data east. So it's not related. But the real issue is low impedance with speakers on one amp and wired poorly. Then as the amp ages it cannot handle the load and heat. I bet if you stick a fan on the heat sink, it works better (for a while). In my opinion, the ff pre DCS speaker kits aren't that great. A better method is to rewire the whole thing with an 8 ohm sub in parallel with 2 series backbox speakers with some resistance on the back box. I think a while back I wrote a DIY Predcs speaker thread that explains it more.

#16 5 years ago

Regarding my experience with RD I had a similar Sound issue using RottenDog power supply in my DE Simpsons when I un hooked the back box speakers it went away (of course these were stock speakers). Believe it or not the sound was good enough thru the cabinet speaker . I eventually repaired the OEM board and tucked away the rottendog as a spare and never pursued the issue any further. Last spring my flipper board went out on my GNR right before a family reunion and I didn't have time to fix it so I ordered a RD replacement and had it overnighted ... it worked about a week and started blowing fuses. Contacted Jim at Rottendog and he asked me to send him the board. I got it back a couple weeks later and he had repaired the issue no questions asked. So my customer service experience with them has been good. I went ahead and fixed the OEM flipper board but I switched them out for about a month and had no issues ,,,, again tucked the RD board away as a spare just in case

1 year later
#17 4 years ago

I am bringing back an old thread to update it. The Rottendog is shipped using regulated 12v. Not sure why but all you have to do is swap the jumpers on RS1 and RS2 to change from regulated to unregulated. The schematic shows this. I believe the reason Rottendog felt the need to regulate the 12v was to stop sound interference with the sound board.

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2 weeks later
#18 4 years ago

Was any of this corrected in the 005 version of the board?

#19 4 years ago
Quoted from windsoreight:

I am bringing back an old thread to update it. The Rottendog is shipped using regulated 12v. Not sure why but all you have to do is swap the jumpers on RS1 and RS2 to change from regulated to unregulated. The schematic shows this. I believe the reason Rottendog felt the need to regulate the 12v was to stop sound interference with the sound board.

I had a similar issue with an X-Pin Data East PSU. The regulated +12v supply is weak and Brett suggested bypassing it. Was causing sound amps to drop out. Removed U3 and jumped the traces, now getting +14v unloaded which seems normal.

#20 4 years ago

The newer 005 Rottendog is unregulated. So as long as you have a stock pin the 005 is good. In my case I am using a Pinsound board and the Rottendog is too anemic to power it. Even unregulated the 12v on the Rottendog barely pushed 11.6v-12v.

#21 4 years ago

There may be components under-rated/over-taxed for the purpose they are serving on those boards.

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