Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991/SOLVED/ Has anyone been able to get customer support from Rottendog lately? I know that the company has changed hands but was hoping to get some insight into an issue with my WPC CPU board which is failing with a Ground short row 1 message even after all switch connectors have been removed from the CPU.
Thanks, Kevin
Quoted from DK:Best of luck w that
The founder/owner passed a couple of years ago
Didn’t Pinball Life buy Rottendog after Jim died?
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:Didn’t Pinball Life buy Rottendog after Jim died?
They couldn't have becaue the quality of shit
I am fairly sure Rottendog IP was bought by someone using the store name "prestige1" on eBay.
- ebay.com link: itm
- https://rottendog.us/contact-us/
The MPU9211 is "Located in: Walled Lake, Michigan, United States". Rottendog contact address on their page is "1877 E West Maple Rd Walled Lake, MI 48390".
I would guess that Pinball Life has a distribution agreement with Rottendog. It might be an exclusive distribution agreement since it is pretty much impossible to find another merchant selling Rottendog products (at least in the US). The only merchant selling Rottendog products on eBay is "prestige1" and that merchant sells most (if not all) the available line of products.
My opinion:
I would always recommend contacting the merchant or manufacturer of the product first before posting to a forum to give the manufacturer a chance to support their product.
A good manufacturer will support their product. A less than good manufacturer will not, and then you could proceed to a forum for help.
I tried getting support years ago - NADA. Ended up with a post on pinside and a super nice guy to help me out for the fix.
Good luck
Quoted from DumbAss:I am fairly sure Rottendog IP was bought by someone using the store name "prestige1" on eBay.
- ebay.com link: itm
- https://rottendog.us/contact-us/
The MPU9211 is "Located in: Walled Lake, Michigan, United States". Rottendog contact address on their page is "1877 E West Maple Rd Walled Lake, MI 48390".
I would guess that Pinball Life has a distribution agreement with Rottendog. It might be an exclusive distribution agreement since it is pretty much impossible to find another merchant selling Rottendog products (at least in the US). The only merchant selling Rottendog products on eBay is "prestige1" and that merchant sells most (if not all) the available line of products.
My opinion:
I would always recommend contacting the merchant or manufacturer of the product first before posting to a forum to give the manufacturer a chance to support their product.
A good manufacturer will support their product. A less than good manufacturer will not, and then you could proceed to a forum for help.
Thanks all for the input. I did contact them already and have not received a reply which is why I posted here. I have also searched Pinside and google regarding this issue with lots of information found but not any real specific solutions to what appears to be a somewhat common issue. Just hoping to see off the manufacturer had any insight on it.
Thanks, Kevin
Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:I did contact them already and have not received a reply which is why I posted here.
I have seen the pattern of behavior quite a few times on this forum.
A lot of people purchase products based on the price. Unfortunately, that price often does not include support. I normally don't bother supporting Rottendog products since that's their responsibility. Not mine. If you purchase one of my products then it's my responsibility to support it.
However, I guess I am feeling a little generous this evening.
Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:I have also searched Pinside and google regarding this issue with lots of information found but not any real specific solutions to what appears to be a somewhat common issue.
So you:
and you still get the ground short? Can you post an image of the board? Can you disconnect the (small) 34-pin ribbon cable (between J211 and J113) and try again?
Quoted from DumbAss:I have seen the pattern of behavior quite a few times on this forum.
A lot of people purchase products based on the price. Unfortunately, that price often does not include support. I normally don't bother supporting Rottendog products since that's their responsibility. Not mine. If you purchase one of my products then it's my responsibility to support it.
However, I guess I am feeling a little generous this evening.So you:
purchased a brand new MPU089
have J206/J207/J208/J209/J212 disconnected
ignored any check fuses messageand you still get the ground short? Can you post an image of the board? Can you disconnect the (small) 34-pin ribbon cable (between J211 and J113) and try again?
Thanks. No worries and no obligation to support me. I bought this board 10 years ago and installed it in my buddies Gilligan's Island as the original CPU was toast. I recently restored the game and all was good for awhile. The game is now at another friend's house so its not in front of me now but I can go over shortly to do more troubleshooting.
Yes to your above questions. Next on my troubleshooting list was to look at the ribbon cables.
Screenshot 2024-01-12 at 6.08.12?PM (resized).pngQuoted from Kevin_LHeureux:Next on my troubleshooting list was to look at the ribbon cables.
If the problem goes away when you disconnect the ribbon cable then go straight to the 4N25 optocouplers (U7 and U8) on the power board and test them. See the PinWiki for the test procedure.
If the problem persists then you have completely isolated the CPU and the problem is on the CPU board. In this case, go first to U20 before considering U18 and U19 second.
Quoted from DumbAss:If the problem goes away when you disconnect the ribbon cable then go straight to the 4N25 optocouplers (U7 and U8) on the power board and test them. See the PinWiki for the test procedure.
If the problem persists then you have completely isolated the CPU and the problem is on the CPU board. In this case, go first to U20 before considering U18 and U19 second.
Your help is greatly appreciated sir. Thank you. I will report back.
Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:failing with a Ground short row 1 message even after all switch connectors have been removed from the CPU.
Probably a shorted switch matrix chip.
Ok. Problem persists with ribbon cable at J211 unplugged on the MPU so will replace U20 and go from there. Unfortunately the U20 location was not socketed from the factory.
Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:Ok. Problem persists with ribbon cable at J211 unplugged on the MPU so will replace U20 and go from there. Unfortunately the U20 location was not socketed from the factory.
Correction: consider U18/U19 first. The only way the software can register the row closed when all the connectors are disconnected is if the LM339 is not functioning properly. U20 provides the path to ground under normal (playfield connected) operation.
Quoted from DumbAss:Correction: consider U18/U19 first. The only way the software can register the row closed when all the connectors are disconnected is if the LM339 is not functioning properly. U20 provides the path to ground under normal (playfield connected) operation.
I had started the process of removing U20 already when I saw your last reply so continued on that as well as U18/19 all with sockets since the process was done away from the game.
Went back to plug it in and test and have run into another, perhaps associated issue with the ribbon cable seemingly making an intermittent connection which would not allow the game to get past the “factory settings restored” prompt which had happened once before. I will order a new ribbon cable to see where we stand.
Quoted from Kevin_LHeureux:Went back to plug it in and test and have run into another, perhaps associated issue with the ribbon cable seemingly making an intermittent connection which would not allow the game to get past the “factory settings restored” prompt which had happened once before. I will order a new ribbon cable to see where we stand.
Ribbon cable is irrelevant to entering diagnostics. You only need to be able to press D8 (enter). You can even short the appropriate pins at J205 if the buttons don't work. If you cannot enter diagnostics then you have another problem. Check your voltages. Particularly +12VR (regulated 12V) since this is required for switches to work properly.
Quoted from DumbAss:Ribbon cable is irrelevant to entering diagnostics. You only need to be able to press D8 (enter). You can even short the appropriate pins at J205 if the buttons don't work. If you cannot enter diagnostics then you have another problem. Check your voltages. Particularly +12VR (regulated 12V) since this is required for switches to work properly.
SOLVED - Thanks for all your help. I had checked the 12v unregulated signal along with the 4N25 optocouplers as initially suggested which all tested fine. All board LED's were lit though I did notice that LED 1 (12V regulated) while lit was dim so checked that voltage at TP 3 which only yielded 3.9V.
It turns out that the LM340T12 voltage regulator was failing and thus only passing along 3.9V to the switch matrix. I was able to locate a new LM340T12 component yesterday, install it and the game is back up and running.
Hopefully documenting the solution here can help others in the future.
BTW, Rottendog did get back to me about a week after emailing them.
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