You are still rough around the edges, so don't think being nice is a bad thing Ron 
Now find a helper so i can send you back this Congo PF and pay you a fair price for your talent to make it a thing of perfection!
(Topic ID: 102648)
Linked Games
Fish Tales
Williams, 1992
Topic Gallery
Galesburg, MI
I think we need to get someone to make insert decals for that congo and it wont be a hard restore. hell half of the pf is cut out the middle
If anyone has a cpr bobby orr for cheap I will buy it to make a redwings pf. I have a used one to practice on, but I don't want to restore the whole thing
Quoted from chessiv:Absolutely nothing against you snaroff but Ron really shouldn't be taking $700 jobs with the work he does. Some math:
He can only do X playfields a year. Let's say x=30.
Current model:
Lets say his average price to restore a playfield is $700
30x700=21k a year
not including expenses
He also has a long backlog of customers and has to stop taking business because of it.
My suggestion:
Don't repair a playfield for less than $1100
30x1100=33k a year
Lower number of customers willing to spend but increased profits and quicker turn around time.
This doesn't take into consideration pure clear coat jobs.
33k still isn't a lot but it's a 63.3% increase in income and probably happier customers given turn around time. Sure he'll lose customers but I would bet he still has enough customers willing to pay that rate for a top notch job.
Your response is kind of odd...it implies I negotiated the rate (which is false). I paid Ron a rate that he came up. When someone quotes you for a job, do you offer to pay more? Estimating a job requires knowledge, which Ron has and I do not. All the other numbers are superfluous. What Ron, HEP, or any other restorer makes on an annual basis is none of my business.
Quoted from Whysnow:You are still rough around the edges, so don't think being nice is a bad thing Ron
Now find a helper so i can send you back this Congo PF and pay you a fair price for your talent to make it a thing of perfection!
Mine first, buddy. No jumping on my Congo bandwagon! 
Quoted from beelzeboob:Mine first, buddy. No jumping on my Congo bandwagon!
You are a couple years behind me and my congo love...
I just wanted to mention and remind the people who are supplying suggestions (some very good) everyone is forgetting consumable materials and the fixed costs. clearcoat with hardner is 200 plus a gal. sand paper over a dollar a 6 in disk. I have over 1000 bottles of paint. I use 5 grades of rubbing compound which runs 30-55 for 32 oz. then we have heat and electricity, which I have to use a lot of each. lastly since this is what I do for a living, I have to pay the man (IRS)
That is one of the things that kills me in pf sales. ave joe selling his extra cpr xenon for 1200 dosent pay income tax on it. and not to go off on a tangent, ave joe dosent have a rep that he has to maintain. I describe every single flaw on a pf, but when I bought it, there was 1 pic from far away. when I get it and call the seller he says, I never opened the box, or I didn't notice. It is very hard for me to compete in pf sales when I pay retail. 90% of the pf's I buy are second hand. I got a steal on a BK for 900 plus shipping last week, and of course it was suppose to be silver or gold, and it has registration off 1/8 th an inch. seller didn't notice, and it didn't show in the pics for 6 ft away. yes it is my fault for not investigating more. I am just saying that this stuff has to go in to the cost of doing biz, and there is a lot of it.
Its a complicated formula or equasion. I am holding off on thinking about it till oct first, then I will do a lot of meditation on it.
once again, thank all of you for the support, now and in the past. it is always noticed, and valued.
I do need to sell at least one or 2 pf's to cover my oct experiment, so here is the updated pf list for sept 12. everything is new/nos and uncleared by me unless noted. ther are several that are ready to go with my treatment. I will start with those lastly feel free to make an offer on anything. if we are close I will make it work, don't forget trades!!!
AFM cleared, tweeked, lots of stuff 1700 shipped in us
xenon nos cleared all inserts painted, any cracking painted 1700
xenon cpr rescreen on used pf. looks fresh new, plus my clear and tweek 1475
flight 2k cpr with my clear 950
sw episode 1 restore w my clear 800
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
stock new/nos stuff
shadow
game show
hot doggin
rocky
DE simpsons
corvette
airborne
charlies angels
TOMMY
SW episode 1
space station
Team One
break shot
world champ w. krauss
FIRE
Jackbot
WoOZ
trident
Evil Keniveal
wild fyre
contact
dragon EM
carhop
lights cam action plus ramps, plastics, decals, mini pf, animation parts
Buggs bunny birthdaybash
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
repros
centaur
strikes and spares
high speed
taxi
xenon
tz
sttng
-----------------------------------------------------------------
stern stuff
simpsons pin party
spiderman
lotr
tron
elvis
harly 2005
ripleys
wheel of fortune
star trek E-4 309 of 600 anyone know what this means?
rollercoaster tycoon
IJ 4
Pirates of the carrebean
monopoly
ac/dc
metallica
csi
wpt
T3
twister
GOLDENEYE
Jurassic park
south park
preview
liberty belle
what do you have for trade? make me an offer an any of them. thanks
[email protected]
Ron,
Everyone is waiting for TWD Kruzman Edition, please tell us all that you will make it happen...
Brad
PS - I apologize for the low-res image, it is hard to find pictures of you from PATZ as you are too busy running around!
Quoted from snaroff:Your response is kind of odd...it implies I negotiated the rate (which is false). I paid Ron a rate that he came up. When someone quotes you for a job, do you offer to pay more? Estimating a job requires knowledge, which Ron has and I do not. All the other numbers are superfluous. What Ron, HEP, or any other restorer makes on an annual basis is none of my business.
Like I said nothing against you at all. I'm suggesting Ron would be better off setting a floor price as he always goes way past customer expectations and loses money in the meanwhile. Don't take that as a dig against you in any way. I was pointing out that Ron needs to improve his business plan.
5 months later
Ron Kruzman’s shop motto is nothing leaves unless it is as good as it can be. For his own sake, I wish it were: Perfection has a Price and it will not be borne by its Producer!
Earlier in this thread, he noted that after negotiating a fixed price, he routinely ate 10-20 hours of work before even reluctantly asking for higher compensation, though still at a substantial loss.
I’m just a newb who lucked into finding Ron but would not be able to enjoy his masterful work if I knew I was responsible for one of the projects that wound up netting him $2/hour and forcing him to sell a machine. Since my particular order is for his eye as a purchaser of stock (and I know he is not selling at a loss) and for relatively straightforward clearcoating services, I’ll sleep soundly.
It seems to me that one good way to even out cash flow would be to establish a rate for his restoration services instead of an estimated price for a sight unseen playfield. The man should guarantee himself more than a quarter of Michigan’s minimum wage and never have to sell a machine out of his collection to subsidize others’ playfields.
Just to play it all out, an estimate that set forth line items for labor and materials would help, along with a disclaimer that his eye is keener than many others’, including experts’, and that he will find more flaws than most customers ever noticed and will fix them, too. A preliminary estimate based on photos and a revised one upon receipt of the PF. Prospective customers to pay for shipping if the revised estimate is too high for them, and perhaps an agreed upon value for the PF in its original state if the final invoice is more than the customer is willing to pay.
That way, if a project fell through, RK could “buy” the PF and pay with proceeds from an auction style sale on pinside or elsewhere. It seems like there is much much more demand than supply for Ron’s work. Just my $.02.
Quoted from Tribonian:Ron Kruzman’s shop motto is nothing leaves unless it is as good as it can be. For his own sake, I wish it were: Perfection has a Price and it will not be borne by its Producer!
Earlier in this thread, he noted that after negotiating a fixed price, he routinely ate 10-20 hours of work before even reluctantly asking for higher compensation, though still at a substantial loss.
I’m just a newb who lucked into finding Ron but would not be able to enjoy his masterful work if I knew I was responsible for one of the projects that wound up netting him $2/hour and forcing him to sell a machine. Since my particular order is for his eye as a purchaser of stock (and I know he is not selling at a loss) and for relatively straightforward clearcoating services, I’ll sleep soundly.
It seems to me that one good way to even out cash flow would be to establish a rate for his restoration services instead of an estimated price for a sight unseen playfield. The man should guarantee himself more than a quarter of Michigan’s minimum wage and never have to sell a machine out of his collection to subsidize others’ playfields.
Just to play it all out, an estimate that set forth line items for labor and materials would help, along with a disclaimer that his eye is keener than many others’, including experts’, and that he will find more flaws than most customers ever noticed and will fix them, too. A preliminary estimate based on photos and a revised one upon receipt of the PF. Prospective customers to pay for shipping if the revised estimate is too high for them, and perhaps an agreed upon value for the PF in its original state if the final invoice is more than the customer is willing to pay.
That way, if a project fell through, RK could “buy” the PF and pay with proceeds from an auction style sale on pinside or elsewhere. It seems like there is much much more demand than supply for Ron’s work. Just my $.02.
Happy you are looking to helpnout Ron, i am lucky enough to have him as a friend and i have seen some of what he goes through. He will take a pf up to a gloss finish and find a little spec and start the whole process again. Restoration is hard and pics will never tell the whole story.
Just bought a creature that he got from a guy who ended up sticking Ron with it because the person clearly didn't communicate to Ron what he wanted. I got to know Ron very well during the whole buying process and we traded a bunch of emails back and forth. He's a really good guy and should get compensated fairly for his work. If you want the best quality work you have to pay for it.
I get that, just wondering what an average playfield runs, i know years ago when bill did mine, it was around 550 to 600 for minor/heavy touch up, hole repair and clear. I know that was years ago, just wondering what people pay these days.
I would say closer to 1k
Quoted from twinmice:I get that, just wondering what an average playfield runs, i know years ago when bill did mine, it was around 550 to 600 for minor/heavy touch up, hole repair and clear. I know that was years ago, just wondering what people pay these days.
Quoted from twinmice:Whats the ball park price for a playfield with touch-up (hole, minor paint ect) and CC?
From what I have seen of Ron's work, whatever he charges is worth it.
Just had a nice pm session with him and he seem like a great guy! If I had the money to blow he would be my first choice for playfield work.
Quoted from zippydapinhead:From what I have seen of Ron's work, whatever he charges is worth it.
Just had a nice pm session with him and he seem like a great guy! If I had the money to blow he would be my first choice for playfield work.
Absolutely right worth every cent he brings shit back to life
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
