(Topic ID: 102648)

Ron Kruzman..."Ron Kruzman is the Playfield restore King!"


By theke

5 years ago



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  • 35 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by mmr61184
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#1 5 years ago

Yeah, that’s right he and this playfield have ruined it for all of my other pins…title got you here now read on.

I sent in a NOS Fish Tales playfield to be touched up and cleared by Kruzman. I have done this over the years with other folks as I put my pins back together and try to make them look and play nice. All have been pretty good…..then…

I purchase a TZ playfield from a fellow Pinsider that has had the Ron Kruzman treatment, Wow!

So, I get in touch with him, (Ron) to see if he can work his magic on a NOS Fish Tales playfield, he says yes and I send him my - only one left in the world NOS Fish Tales playfield, expecting a pretty good job, then I get this back via FedEx in a hand built wood shipping crate for extra protection….

A perfect Playfield. I can not emphasize the word perfect enough! The lines are square and bright, the clear is, well perfect. There is not as much as a ripple in the clear, it is mirror smooth & clear. Yeah, perfect. Perfect, perfect, perfect. I know there are a few folks out there doing Playfield restorations, but I will only send my stuff to Ron Kruzman from now on.

Yeah, Ron, you stink ‘cause now I have to send the rest of my machines boards to you to make them look as good, I can’t have all of my other machines looking sub-par…

Thank you!!!

here are some snapshots, I wish I had a real camera to show just how perfect this playfield is.

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#2 5 years ago

Thank you Ron Kruzman!!! I will now have the nicest Fish Tales in the West!!

#3 5 years ago

Actually, he sucks because he won't take restoration work for the next three years. (I say that as a joke, of course.) I wanted my Congo touched up (chipped hole and a small paint touch-up), but it's only clear-coating right now if you want Ron. If you want the best, you gotta wait for the best. But at my age, I might not be around long enough to have him get to me...

#4 5 years ago

Yeah, there is no way I would ever put that in my machine. Seems like by now he could figure out how to get those playfields to look nice.

Looks great and I agree with beelzeboob. Wish he (and a few others) could take on more restoration work. They are just so dang busy with clear jobs and light touch-ups. Good thing for them though.

#5 5 years ago

B-boob . . . just use your Magic Markers like you did on your other PF's to touch them up!

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Actually, he sucks because he won't take restoration work for the next three years. (I say that as a joke, of course.).

Agree! If we could only perfect the human cloning process!

#7 5 years ago

So Mr. Kruzman is terribly busy and it did take a while to get the play field back, but I heard from him quite a bit with progress updates and e-mails, he is crazy polite and the end product is well worth the reasonable wait...he does have a life outside the spray booth 'ya know...

-1
#8 5 years ago

Enjoy, I wish I could round up the guts to remove my Addams playfield to send in for touchup and CC but just cant. Plus money might be a factor.

#9 5 years ago

OP - change the title of the thread because it sucks.

#10 5 years ago

mrbillishere,

You're right...I only put that in the title to get your attention...it worked.

As far as I am concerned, Ron Kruzman is the Playfield restore King!

#11 5 years ago
Quoted from mrbillishere:

OP - change the title of the thread because it sucks.

+1

#12 5 years ago

clickbait!

1535714_10152107068024088_1677879524_n.jpg

#13 5 years ago

RK's work is the shit. The CFTBL pf I bought from him is perfect. You cant tell that it isn't NOS except that the girl is nekkid. Although why he would leave the white space for the bar code Ill never know. It is a shame that he doesn't take in restores but if he is backed up that is understandable. He told me that it isn't worth it because people don't want to pay what the work is worth. Ill bet there are many people willing to pay what the work is worth to get their stuff done. Meanwhile Joe Mamma does great restore work, give him a shout.

15
#14 5 years ago

I should start a post for this info, but I don't want to sound self important, but after this post.... actually I love the compliments.
anyway here it is:
Starting oct 1. I am going to close the studio doors and just work on restorations. There are 6 that have been waiting well over a year to get done and I feel horrible. My plan is to figure out if there is any way to do restorations again and still make enough to pay my rent.
Here was the problem. The shop motto is nothing leaves unless it is as good as it can be: when I would give people a price, and then a bunch of stuff would come up, or stuff that wants painted just didn't match the new stuff. Almoist always I would eat 10-20 hours. If it was over that I would feel like a total dick and ask for more money but never as much as it actually cost. This is almost manageable but then you get a fireball, catacomb, or paragon, that needs to be 100% painted. when done it looks better than any nos, but it took 100-200 hours (seriously) all colors have to be double coated, and some more for the color, plus texture, or achieving no texture. anyway that happens and takes the whole month and I cant make the house payment, and it takes 5 months just to get back on my feet. Meanwhile in some cases, a person who I have never met has one of my best pieces of art for 2 dollars an hour, and I have to sell a game.
One thing that would make it possible is if I had a helper. I would gladly train and pay well someone to prep, sand clean, wrap, build crates, stuff like that. I had one for a year and it worked great, but she insisted on doing painting because she considered herself an artist, but everything she did, I had to re do, which caused her to cop an attitude, and all of the sudden she was above prep, and the whole thing fell apart. The issue was if one bad job gets out there it could ruin my name.

So the best part of my job is turning worn pf's in to perfection, and I want to get back to that. I just have to figure out how. First off people have to realize I only have one level or color, no bronze and silver. Only gold, so if you are looking for good enough, there are plenty of people who can help you. Or not, I cant. I just have to find the people who want the best and will pay for it. The thing that wrecks my day, is when I go the extra mile on something, but it comes out of my pocket. It ruins the whole process. Plus I know it is not reasonable but when I cant afford to have a game with one of my pf;s in it, let alone pay the morg, I have people spending 15k on a restoration, but want to squeeze every penny out of me.

So not to burden everyone with my sorry assed life, I just want people who care to know that I am trying to figure out a way that I can do restorations again. They bring me the most joy, fo sure!

Lastly on these compliments. Keep em coming!!! ha!!! I write down names , and I don't forget. Same as the people who ride my ass. The best people to work with are the customers who it fells like you are working together for the final product. I like to know where my pf';s end up, how they fair, if they get sold.

So If I end up at expo, and you see me, ask how the whole thing is going.
cheers, kruzman

#15 5 years ago

Damn Ron, If I lived close to you I would volunteer to help for free in my spare time, what little of it I have, to learn from you.

#16 5 years ago

<Damn Ron, If I lived close to you I would volunteer to help for free in my spare time, what little of it I have, to learn from you.

People who know your work know it is the best and they should be willing to pay for it. Nothing is free and you get what you pay for.

#17 5 years ago

Ron,

I have great memories of the Paragon work you did for me last summer. You were great to work with. I let the PF cure for 1 year and admired it as art. When I decided against doing the swap of my already pristine original PF, I sold it to Pinsider to use it in a worthy restoration. fwiw, I just don't get any enjoyment out of collecting PF's...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-nos-paragon-pf-restoredcleared-by-ron-kruzman-in-june-2013

Thanks again for taking my job.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from kruzman:

I should start a post for this info, but I don't want to sound self important, but after this post.... actually I love the compliments.
anyway here it is:
Starting oct 1. I am going to close the studio doors and just work on restorations. There are 6 that have been waiting well over a year to get done and I feel horrible. My plan is to figure out if there is any way to do restorations again and still make enough to pay my rent.
Here was the problem. The shop motto is nothing leaves unless it is as good as it can be: when I would give people a price, and then a bunch of stuff would come up, or stuff that wants painted just didn't match the new stuff. Almoist always I would eat 10-20 hours. If it was over that I would feel like a total dick and ask for more money but never as much as it actually cost. This is almost manageable but then you get a fireball, catacomb, or paragon, that needs to be 100% painted. when done it looks better than any nos, but it took 100-200 hours (seriously) all colors have to be double coated, and some more for the color, plus texture, or achieving no texture. anyway that happens and takes the whole month and I cant make the house payment, and it takes 5 months just to get back on my feet. Meanwhile in some cases, a person who I have never met has one of my best pieces of art for 2 dollars an hour, and I have to sell a game.
One thing that would make it possible is if I had a helper. I would gladly train and pay well someone to prep, sand clean, wrap, build crates, stuff like that. I had one for a year and it worked great, but she insisted on doing painting because she considered herself an artist, but everything she did, I had to re do, which caused her to cop an attitude, and all of the sudden she was above prep, and the whole thing fell apart. The issue was if one bad job gets out there it could ruin my name.
So the best part of my job is turning worn pf's in to perfection, and I want to get back to that. I just have to figure out how. First off people have to realize I only have one level or color, no bronze and silver. Only gold, so if you are looking for good enough, there are plenty of people who can help you. Or not, I cant. I just have to find the people who want the best and will pay for it. The thing that wrecks my day, is when I go the extra mile on something, but it comes out of my pocket. It ruins the whole process. Plus I know it is not reasonable but when I cant afford to have a game with one of my pf;s in it, let alone pay the morg, I have people spending 15k on a restoration, but want to squeeze every penny out of me.
So not to burden everyone with my sorry assed life, I just want people who care to know that I am trying to figure out a way that I can do restorations again. They bring me the most joy, fo sure!
Lastly on these compliments. Keep em coming!!! ha!!! I write down names , and I don't forget. Same as the people who ride my ass. The best people to work with are the customers who it fells like you are working together for the final product. I like to know where my pf';s end up, how they fair, if they get sold.
So If I end up at expo, and you see me, ask how the whole thing is going.
cheers, kruzman

I've said this a number of times to everyone here and Ron directly, he's an artist and he charges too little for his work. Ron, get your ass out of the studio and lets have lunch at that mexican place. I need to remind you of some things I've told you over the years. Plus I'm sure you missed some photographs you could have shown me

#19 5 years ago

Ron - just got Annie back - and I can say the pictures do not do it justice - just amazing work.

Ron got my playfield because he responds to emails in a timely manner, gave me a price, and wasnt booked 6 years in advance.

#20 5 years ago

OP, this would be a better subject,

Ron Kruzman is the Playfield restore King!

#21 5 years ago

scott_freeman,

Quoted from scott_freeman:

OP, this would be a better subject,

Ron Kruzman is the Playfield restore King!

Done...

#22 5 years ago

Ron's work is really amazing! I would LOVE to have him do some pfs for games I want to restore and am happy to pay the man what he is worth.

I hope you can find a helper Ron and then you can take a pf or 2 from me. I still have a Centaur CPR gold I would like you to turn into a Ron K Platinum (calling your work "gold" level is an insult considering how good it is).

#23 5 years ago

So glad I have a nos p/f with Ron now and it's nearly finished

I will post pictures when I get it as it's an unusual one.

Can't wait to get it but equally happy to wait for however long it takes, as it's worth waiting for perfection

#24 5 years ago

Ron restored a White Water playfield set for me a couple of years ago. It turned out great! The touch-ups are invisible and it's glassy smooth. Love it! I also love the crown symbol on the underside of the playfield signifying it's a Kruzman restoration. Nice touch!!

Jeff R.

#25 5 years ago

I've said this before and I'll say it again. There is nobody out there that can touch Rons work, infact from what I've seen of some people's "restorations" they should be ashamed. I wont name any names of course but nobody but Ron will ever get any of my playfields. If you want the best you will have to pay up for it and then wait your turn. You get what you pay for and Ron has been undercharging for years. He always tells me how alot of people wont pay for a finished playfield thats already done. But they will buy a playfield thats not done and then send it to him to have him touch it up and clear it, which makes no sense unless the person is trying to break down how much there paying and at different times....? Who knows ?? I know its frustrating for him at times but thank God he's still doing what he loves to do and hopefully the burn out phase will never come, we just need to figure out like he said how to make it more profitable for him........hmmmmm?

Suggestions ??

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from Dayhuff:

I've said this before and I'll say it again. There is nobody out there that can touch Rons work, infact from what I've seen of some people's "restorations" they should be ashamed. I wont name any names of course but nobody but Ron will ever get any of my playfields. If you want the best you will have to pay up for it and then wait your turn. You get what you pay for and Ron has been undercharging for years. He always tells me how alot of people wont pay for a finished playfield thats already done. But they will buy a playfield thats not done and then send it to him to have him touch it up and clear it, which makes no sense unless the person is trying to break down how much there paying and at different times....? Who knows ?? I know its frustrating for him at times but thank God he's still doing what he loves to do and hopefully the burn out phase will never come, we just need to figure out like he said how to make it more profitable for him........hmmmmm?
Suggestions ??
John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

I gave him the playbook. I think he needs a reminder.

#27 5 years ago

I have seen Ron's work and it is amazing. He's done some work for me (clearing/improving an NOS WMS MB PF that is for a game being restored for me). Although I haven't seen it yet, the restorer says the picture of perfection.

Ron is great to talk to and seems very fair. If he were to raise his prices, I doubt I would have an issue, because I can't even imagine doing what he does in how I would calculate a reasonable hourly rate.

I'm sure there are others that do good work, but until Ron decides to retire I won't find out.

Of course, now that the cat is out of the bag, I'll be tough to get on his schedule ...

#28 5 years ago

I have a Kruzman in my Mata Hari. It is stellar!

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I have seen Ron's work and it is amazing. He's done some work for me (clearing/improving an NOS WMS MB PF that is for a game being restored for me). Although I haven't seen it yet, the restorer says the picture of perfection.
Ron is great to talk to and seems very fair. If he were to raise his prices, I doubt I would have an issue, because I can't even imagine doing what he does in how I would calculate a reasonable hourly rate.
I'm sure there are others that do good work, but until Ron decides to retire I won't find out.
Of course, now that the cat is out of the bag, I'll be tough to get on his schedule ...

The trick with Ron, as he mentioned, is he will not let a playfield go out with a flaw. If you send the playfield in with an estimate to fix 5 flaws and a clearcoat. He'll find 20 flaws and fix them for the same price making his estimates way too low. Some may think this is a good thing but it's really not. A man has bills and occasionally likes to eat =) He has to charge a flat price to repair a playfield that will be high but you'll know you're going to get a playfield back that probably looks better than factory. We have to pay Ron well so he'll keep repairing our playfields. Without Ron there is no one else who does his level of work. Well, not that I've seen.

#30 5 years ago

Ron wears his heart on his sleeve and I imagine it may often be difficult for him to separate his passion for pinball from business operations. I have told the story before, but I will tell it again. I met Ron when he came to buy a Big Guns pinball machine from me some years ago when I was living in Grand Rapids. While he was at the house we spoke very little about the machine, but he came into the house and I was talking to him about it as it was a skill-center home built by students. I mention this as it had a number of custom features that he looked over as we spoke about it. He was absolutely pleasant to deal with and great to talk with about houses, construction, and eventually pinball. I will say it is people like Ron that have continued to make the hobby fun for me to be involved in, as they aren't so simply focused on a one thing and he "extended" himself to me.

I am happy to call Ron a friend. The work he has done for the pinball community over the years has been fantastic, now he needs to find a way to give himself the same attention!

Brad

#31 5 years ago

One of the most pleasant people to deal with that I have met in this hobby....great guy!

#32 5 years ago

Ron's work is simply the best. Above that, Ron is a great guy.

#33 5 years ago

With Ron's talent maybe he should forget the playfields and become a artist. I have seen some ugly shit sell for millions maybe with his talent he could create beautiful art that rich people would pay stupid money for.

#34 5 years ago

Here's another suggestion . Maybe he could design PFs for Stern and they could put out games with beautiful PFs instead of pixelated photoshoped collages.

#35 5 years ago

I just wanted to echo everyone's sentiment here: that Ron is a great guy and does outstanding work. A few years back I traded him a Bad Cats playfield and cash for a SS pf he restored. Even though I've yet to get it in my game, I still drag it out to admire the perfect clear on it. So perfect. Also, Ron was extremely cool to deal with. Thanks, Ron!

#36 5 years ago

I have an NOS IM pf with Ron right now and its been a pleasant experience and I can tell that he is very detail oriented.

#37 5 years ago

Ron is one of our State Treasures! Great guy, with an unbelievable talent!

Ron,
Here's some advice from a guy that has owned his own business since (several along the way)he was 19.

1) you need an apprentice. Someone who is young, & can do the grunt work for an honest hourly wage, that is also interested in learning from "The Best". Your wasting your time building pallets & the such, you mentioned that, & your right. Your only making $ when your working on playfields.
2) You have to charge more. That's one of the reasons your so backed up. You want the customers who are willing to Pay for "The Best". The rest can go to the "other guys" & that's ok.

Just my $.02 take it or leave it.

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from Zampinator:

Ron is one of our State Treasures! Great guy, with an unbelievable talent!
Ron,
Here's some advice from a guy that has owned his own business since (several along the way)he was 19.
1) you need an apprentice. Someone who is young, & can do the grunt work for an honest hourly wage, that is also interested in learning from "The Best". Your wasting your time building pallets & the such, you mentioned that, & your right. Your only making $ when your working on playfields.
2) You have to charge more. That's one of the reasons your so backed up. You want the customers who are willing to Pay for "The Best". The rest can go to the "other guys" & that's ok.
Just my $.02 take it or leave it.

I've never owned my own business, but don't see how charging more is a solution. Using my job as an example...

I paid Ron $700 to restore/clear a Paragon PF. If Ron spent 100 hours on it, he made $7 per hour. Even if Ron doubled his prices, that's still only $14 per/hour.

Ron's passion for pinball clearly transcends his passion for $$. No doubt that adding an apprentice is goodness...however you still need to pay them.

#39 5 years ago

I suggest getting an apprentice also. Then work with them and when they get "good enough", offer that level of work for those that are only willing to pay for it. Don't put your name on this work, but also do not put that persons name on it. Call it "shop RK good enough" and stamp the beack of each pf accordingly to keep it clear for any future buyer.

Pay the apprentice accordingly as they get better (also to prevent them from just ditching you after they get "good enough" and going off on their own with instant name recognition) and you could really get back to doing what you love. Granted you really need to find the right person to make it work.

Increase the cost of your work to make it worth your time. There are plenty that will pay for the best >> as evidenced from your LONG time and inability to take on more work.

#40 5 years ago

Ron, one thing I would like to add, while I have not had the honor of you working on one of my playfields, I contacted you to get a time and cost estimate to restore one of them. I appreciate the speed at which you got back to me and your honesty in estimating the turnaround time. Your honest and quick communication shows your integrity and helps me (the customer) to make an informed decision (ie do I wait 2 year for a restore or look for a NOS PF to get a quick clear coat).

Thanks for all you do and good luck on clearing your backlog. (Pun intended )

#41 5 years ago

While I do not have a restored Kruzman PF, he did sell me a nice ES PF years ago! Arrived packaged very well, and the pf (while not perfect, nor did I expect it to be) is in MUCH nicer shape than the one that is currently in the game.

(Now if I can only find someone willing to work on the problematic sys 11 PFs!, or if the repro will finally come to fruition!)

If I ever have a game that needs a PF touched up, I will be contacting Ron (many years from now)

#42 5 years ago

Few pictures of my BOPP that Ron did the clear-coat on!

PlayfieldInstalled.JPG

Playfield4.JPG DSC08337.JPG Playfield1.JPG
#43 5 years ago

I went with Rob Anthony to expo last year and he introduced me to Ron. He is one of the coolest cats you will EVER meet in pinball. Just a straight up cool dude, pleasure to talk to, the kind of guy you just want to buy a beer and chill. And guess what? He is the PF genius. The STAR of playfields. Just the "Kruzman did this" adds hundreds of value to a machine or a playfield. He is a credit to this hobby and his standard of work is unsurpassed.

Cheers Ron!

-1
#44 5 years ago
Quoted from meSz:

Few pictures of my BOPP that Ron did the clear-coat on!

PlayfieldInstalled.JPG 486 KB

Playfield4.JPG 512 KB

DSC08337.JPG 328 KB

Playfield1.JPG 548 KB

There's a major flaw in that playfield. Ron should have changed the blackhawk logo to redwings

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I've never owned my own business, but don't see how charging more is a solution. Using my job as an example...
I paid Ron $700 to restore/clear a Paragon PF. If Ron spent 100 hours on it, he made $7 per hour. Even if Ron doubled his prices, that's still only $14 per/hour.
Ron's passion for pinball clearly transcends his passion for $$. No doubt that adding an apprentice is goodness...however you still need to pay them.

Yes. But time = $

The auto body gets to charge for time plus material, why can't Ron?
One of my drivers this past winter bumped a Honda Accord in the rear bumper.
It cost me $910!
1) bumper skin $198
2) The rest was mostly labor (priming, painting, clear coat) $712
Seems like a pretty similar process.

#46 5 years ago
Quoted from Zampinator:

Yes. But time = $
The auto body gets to charge for time plus material, why can't Ron?
One of my drivers this past winter bumped a Honda Accord in the rear bumper.
It cost me $910!
1) bumper skin $198
2) The rest was mostly labor (priming, painting, clear coat) $712
Seems like a pretty similar process.

Missing your point and analogy...sorry.

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from Zampinator:

Yes. But time = $
The auto body gets to charge for time plus material, why can't Ron?

Ron can, problem is that nobody is going to buy a playfield for $600 base price ( for instance ) and then spend another $910 for Ron to do his magic to it. He's told me this a hundred times. Yes a few people will, depending on the game...but most wont and he spends hours each day on the computer answering peoples questions about why it cost so much...blah, blah = time lost and in the end it was never meant to be. Ron could use someone to help him with all the non restoring stuff like emails, crate building, shipping etc.....but he really cant afford to pay somone out of his pocket. Unless he was a tenant....? Hmmm....? Ron are you reading this ??

John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I've never owned my own business, but don't see how charging more is a solution. Using my job as an example...
I paid Ron $700 to restore/clear a Paragon PF. If Ron spent 100 hours on it, he made $7 per hour. Even if Ron doubled his prices, that's still only $14 per/hour.
Ron's passion for pinball clearly transcends his passion for $$. No doubt that adding an apprentice is goodness...however you still need to pay them.

Absolutely nothing against you snaroff but Ron really shouldn't be taking $700 jobs with the work he does. Some math:

He can only do X playfields a year. Let's say x=30.

Current model:

Lets say his average price to restore a playfield is $700

30x700=21k a year
not including expenses
He also has a long backlog of customers and has to stop taking business because of it.

My suggestion:

Don't repair a playfield for less than $1100
30x1100=33k a year
Lower number of customers willing to spend but increased profits and quicker turn around time.

This doesn't take into consideration pure clear coat jobs.

33k still isn't a lot but it's a 63.3% increase in income and probably happier customers given turn around time. Sure he'll lose customers but I would bet he still has enough customers willing to pay that rate for a top notch job.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from chessiv:

There's a major flaw in that playfield. Ron should have changed the blackhawk logo to redwings

You're correct but that would mean the machine would be younger than most of the players on the Red Wings

#50 5 years ago

First off guys, I am going to save this page for next time I have the barrel in my mouth.
It really helps my attitude after all of the compliments, and while I am thinking and painting in the month of October, it will be positive because I know I have people backing me.
Its nice to have free access to chucks business advice. Here is the joke of the day... I have a bba from wmu!!!! ahhahahahahaah! I do. also a BS, but that is a statement on their business college. Graduated with above 3.0 (strung out most of the time though)

Since I don't have kids I am not really afraid of failure. I would rather try something and fail, rather than not. One of my friends who is worth 50 mil, last time I looked, ran 7 business in to the ground before he got it right. Either way, I am going to change things around here for 2 reasons, to bring my income at least to the poverty line, and so I don't get burned out, because I would consider being an artist for the rest of my life a beautiful success.

John is very right, in that the biggest waste of time, or better said as the biggest use of my time that dosen't result in income is 2-3 hours of email every day. So I am going to have to get a website, besides being mentioned on kickasspinball and a couple others. I just have to get someone that can do it and work with me that I can afford. all in time.
I will post pics of restor's that get done in oct. one is going to be a herc which I don't think has ever been done, plus I have 6 that are halfway done or more.

Last night I made the woman naked on genie, and it looks awesome. I did it on paper, so the bummer is I will have to restore a whole used pf to get to do it, so if anyone has a nos genie, please let me know. I am trying/experimenting on a nude stingray for a customer. This is a perfect example of the problems I have. I don't like the idea of having to charge the customer for the time I spend sketching a girl for the pf, and chances are that if I cant come up with something that looks awesome, I wont do anything at all. It is drawn with a odd perspective so the nips just don't go on easily, whatever, but I am afraid to spend a night trying different things and nothing comes out very good. I just wasted a night, and cant bill for it, and feel confident. If it was my pf I could price accordingly to the amount of time invested, but like mentioned above, people get sticker shock if the pf is already cleared. Though they have no prob at all buying the pf and paying to have it cleared, same price. Its a goofy biz.

so back to work, but I want to thank everyone including the poster for the acknowledgment of the effort I put in to it. It is also strange to hear I am a nice guy, I am positive this has to do with sobriety, because it was the opposite reaction, back in the days... It is so unusual and new, that it is honestly kind of embarrassing. I will get over it! cheers, ron k. galesburg

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