(Topic ID: 7260)

ROM burners - anyone got recommendations?


By DrAzzy

7 years ago



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  • 129 posts
  • 67 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by G-P-E
  • Topic is favorited by 64 Pinsiders

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    There are 129 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
    #101 1 year ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Wow!
    Those parts are just as bad - they are blatant counterfeits and ST would be real interested in that one. Really importing those by the case?!?! Takes balls bringing those in through customs -> with the right customs agent, a case of those can be accompanied with a $2M fine ($2M for an individual, $5M for a company) plus up to 10 years in jail. I would really think twice about ordering from that source.
    ST discontinued 2732s long, long before 2013. They are blatantly taking some parts from 'somewhere' and marking them with the ST logo, part number and selling them as new ST parts. That clearly qualifies them as counterfeit parts.
    Those could be 'fell of the back of a truck' parts remarked to make them look like STs. Or maybe trash canned 'failed functional test' parts. Or ... who knows.
    When we made parts (yes, unfortunately many were fabbed in China) - functional test was much more stringent than what we pinheads need for our uses. Most "failed" parts would pass what we would consider functional but will fail by small degrees in areas such as access time or power consumption. At the time, more and more of our failed parts were somehow making their way back into the consumer market. To curb this - we had to shred failed parts that were made in China, Korea, Singapore and other far east countries. We still had many parts fall off the backs of trucks. They would ship 100K of one part... and we would receive 95K. Happened quite often and nobody over there gave a fat rat's patootie. "Huh, well... we must have miscounted."
    If the Chinese were smart about this - they would sell them under their own name as new parts. Nobody could contest that. New DingDong brand parts would be better than mystery counterfeit ST parts or no parts at all.

    I guess box is a better description. 300 or so. First time i ran into those China eprom clones was actually came from an often recommended domestic seller. It was pretty obvious something was up when they are marked M2732A, say PGM at 12.5v, and you need to PGM them at 25v. At 21v they program really slow to the point it is suspicious even tho the data sticks. No problems erasing and re buring a few times at least at 25v.

    Most stuff im making now is using bigger sized eproms and luckily legit new ones are pretty easily found. But for old boards that want a 2716/2732, its easy for a hobbyist to snag the aliexpress ebay special. Scraping off old labels, erasing them, bent up legs, then it turns out the chip won't burn... no fun. One time programmables are fine for most purposes. How often are you really going to change the ROMs in a pinball board.

    #102 1 year ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    If the Chinese were smart about this - they would sell them under their own name as new parts.

    I 'think' they've already read your mind

    LM380N.jpg

    #103 1 year ago

    China crap that has wound up in my parts bins on accident that caused issues.

    CD4013. Had a stash of these from years ago. Been using them for a while in random boards. Turns out they don't work right in the SB300 sound baard.

    CD4070. Chip tester would say it is a CD4070 yet not work in a real circuit (SB300)

    CD4051. There was "something" inside this chip as I could get some voltage drop across legs, but chip tester declared them as bad and they did not work. New made looking part.

    74LS that are actually 74HCT chips (this one is rampant all over ebay, and shows up at domestic sellers now too). 74HCT240 causes solenoids to pull in while caps are charging and the CPU is /RESET.

    IRL540 marked transistor being IRF540 or similar (coil pulse weeny in game play made). China fake transistors seem the be the naughtiest of the bunch. The rogue branded IC chips at least usually work.

    FM16W08 new made clones from AliExpress. They where "to good to be true" priced so i wanted to see what was up with them. RAMTRON branded parts visually indistinguishable from legit RAMTRON parts besides a bogus data code. Legit Cypress / RAMTRON FM1608 always came blank, the knock offs had static data on them that didnt look logical at all. The ones i got about only 3/5 chips actually worked, but the ones that did work, seemed fine and electrically the same as a legit FM16W08. They where not pulls and all had the same tooling marks. China seems like that can make whatever components they want as long as the tech is not to extreme. I use legit Cypress parts for NVRAM, they are not cheap.....

    China makes brand new crap that can be hard to eye out anymore. Blatant remarks are easy to spot. Here are remarks example.... one of these op amps is not like the others, one of these op amps is not the same!

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    #104 1 year ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Hi guys, I have a tl866, but it won’t burn the 25v chips. I need to burn some 2532’s which are 25v. Is the gq-4x reliable for them? From what I’ve read here it should work, just need to know for sure as cash is tight and rather not buy another burner if it won’t work for me. Thx again guys, I kno very little about this.

    Hi,
    I've both a TL866CS and a GQ-4X (and some others ... ).

    The GQ-4X should be able to burn the old TMS2532. Never tried it, but my experience it that all chips announced by Mcumall have been really tested (not like some chineese programmer like Top series....).
    The GQ-4X can burn the old 2716 and 2732 at 25v without problem, of course it need an external power connected, but it works fine. Same for the A version (21v) or B (12.7v).
    2017-12-29_19h45_20 (resized).png
    As you know, the pinout of the 2532 from Texas Instrument is a little bit different from the 2732.
    Looking at the software option, the GQ-4X has the ability to program the 2532.
    But only read the 2532A.
    2017-12-29_20h14_22 (resized).png
    May be you can take a look at the Mcumall forum, there is a topic about 2532 programming here:
    http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2917

    This seems to confirm that the 2532 @ 25 volts can be programmed, from Texas (TMS2532) or Hitachi (HN462532), but the 2532A can only be read with the GQ-4X.
    Note : keep your TL866CS - it's a good device that work fine, but has some limitation (no more than 21v VPP). The GQ-4X can't program the PAL/GAL (sometime used in pinballs), but the TL866CS can.

    #105 1 year ago

    I have not been able to get the TL866CS to properly program GAL's either (specifically Lattice GAL16V8's). It would go through the motions -> Erase the part, program the part, verify the part and say everything went OK. Yet the part would still be blank. I use an old Advin for doing this stuff now - at least it works reliably.
    The TL866CS does work properly for late model EPROMs and OTPs.

    #106 1 year ago

    Thanks guys, looks like I’ll be ordering one come Jan 2. If my wife found out what I’ve been spending on parts and tools alone, in addition to the machines...........

    #107 1 year ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    I have not been able to get the TL866CS to properly program GAL's either (specifically Lattice GAL16V8's).

    I've never encounter problems with GAL programming with my TL866CS. I use often GAL 16V8D from Lattice (some -15, some -25) and also ATMEL AT16V8B, no problem at all with that.
    Fun ... I've also tried the "ST M2732A Singapore/China" from Ebay. The announce said Vpp 21 volts, but I receive this set (I also order 27C128) with a strange marking : Pgm 12.5v printed on it
    DSC03188 (resized).JPG
    But the seller was serious, and he clearly announced that the chip was really 21 volts and there was an error on the label print.
    In the 80's, I've programmed many 2716 and 2732, and for me, it's obvious that a 2732A is @ 21 volts and only special/cmos can be 12.5v !
    But as I'm curious, I first give it a try @ 12.5v - of course, this doesn't works.

    But at 21v, as expected - this M2732A program perfectly and also fast ! (I select AT2732 on Miniprog, and set Vpp to 21 volts).
    The M27C128 program also fine and fast (I select AM27C128 and uncheck the "check-id" box).
    So, for me, there is no problem with this kind of memories.

    #108 1 year ago
    Quoted from Riptor:

    When using USB programmers you should always use a usb port on the rear of the pc. Many times the front ports do not supply enough current and you may have issues. I run external power on mine always, it just stays plugged in all the time.

    Great advice right there. Worth my price of admission!

    #109 1 year ago

    So, I've bought a ROM burner (TL866CS), but for the life of me, there's too many options on what chips to buy!

    3 weeks later
    #110 1 year ago

    If the knowledgeable can weigh in here: is there a benefit to going with the newer GQ-4X4, or will the GQ-4x do everything I need for the purposes of programming for pinball EPROMs?

    #111 1 year ago
    Quoted from spiroagnew:

    If the knowledgeable can weigh in here: is there a benefit to going with the newer GQ-4X4, or will the GQ-4x do everything I need for the purposes of programming for pinball EPROMs?

    For just pinball, the 4x is fine. I never upgraded mine, I still use the 4x, no issues.

    #112 1 year ago

    My GQ-4X doesn't work reliably with Windows 7. The software often can't tell the programmer's connected, or it disconnects during a session. I've tried it on three different PCs, and different ports, and used the external power supply. Finally I returned it and the MCU Mall tech said it works fine, just needs an updated driver. I tried that and of course it worked when I had the guy on the phone, then returned to being flaky. Running it through a powered USB 3.0 hub seems to improve it a bit.

    I was about to write it off as cheap junk and get something else. But then I tried it with a new Windows 10 laptop and so far it's been dead reliable with that.
    YMMV.

    Michael

    #113 1 year ago

    My GQ4X worked reliably on Win7, and now I have another computer with Win10 which it also works well with. No issues on my end.

    #114 1 year ago

    Yeah I think mine's just defective in some way. I should have demanded a replacement from MCUMall instead of letting them return mine with the assurance it was a "driver issue". But as long as it works well with Win10 I'm okay with it.

    #115 1 year ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    My GQ4X worked reliably on Win7, and now I have another computer with Win10 which it also works well with.

    Ditto.

    #116 1 year ago

    While on this topic -- I saw this bit of good info posted by hailrazer over on KLOV --

    Just an FYI for those of us trying to burn Mitsubishi M5L2764's on the GQ-4X

    They are incredibly difficult to burn. A lot of times they won't even pass a blank check. I have over 40 of them from Nintendo VS boards and they were giving me tons of trouble. Only 1 in 10 would pass a blank check after "erasing" them. And those that did pass would hardly ever burn.

    So in order to get them to work you need to open the devices.txt file in the GQ USB Programmer folder on your PC. Remove the following line:

    Name="M5L2764",ID="XXXX",Class="2764(21V Vpp)",Category="EPROM",MFG="Mitsubishi",Message="A pply external power !";//by EZo

    And add this line in it's place:

    Name="M5L2764",ID="XXXX",Class="2764(21V Vpp)",Category="EPROM",MFG="Mitsubishi",VCC="5V",W VPP="21V",WVCC="6.2V",BVCC="5V",RVPP="5V",Message= "Apply external power !";//by EZo

    Then they will burn and blank check every time

    #117 1 year ago
    Quoted from RoyGBev:

    My GQ-4X doesn't work reliably with Windows 7. The software often can't tell the programmer's connected, or it disconnects during a session. I've tried it on three different PCs, and different ports, and used the external power supply. Finally I returned it and the MCU Mall tech said it works fine, just needs an updated driver. I tried that and of course it worked when I had the guy on the phone, then returned to being flaky. Running it through a powered USB 3.0 hub seems to improve it a bit.
    I was about to write it off as cheap junk and get something else. But then I tried it with a new Windows 10 laptop and so far it's been dead reliable with that.
    YMMV.
    Michael

    Check your BIOS settings for the USB ports on your computer.

    #118 1 year ago

    Took the plunge. Got the GQ-4X bundled with eraser.

    Where should I begin the search for a couple spare EPROMs to experiment with? Mainly working with classic Bally/Stern, Sys11 and WPC.

    #119 1 year ago
    Quoted from spiroagnew:

    Took the plunge. Got the GQ-4X bundled with eraser.
    Where should I begin the search for a couple spare EPROMs to experiment with? Mainly working with classic Bally/Stern, Sys11 and WPC.

    I buy all mine on eBay. Just make sure you buy from a reputable seller with good feedback.

    #120 1 year ago

    Just about any 2732 will work for modified classic Bally/stern Boards and they will be about the cheapest. Do an eBay search and sort lowest price for cheapest or distance nearest first if you want them fast.

    2 months later
    #121 1 year ago

    well, after reading this thread I'm convinced I'll buy a GQ-4x. I visited amazon (because it offers free shipping to EU) and found many versions of GQ-4x v4 each having a different price (PRG-109, PRG-110, PRG-112, PRG-113 etc...)
    What version should I buy?

    #122 1 year ago
    Quoted from provato:

    well, after reading this thread I'm convinced I'll buy a GQ-4x. I visited amazon (because it offers free shipping to EU) and found many versions of GQ-4x v4 each having a different price (PRG-109, PRG-110, PRG-112, PRG-113 etc...)
    What version should I buy?

    http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4282
    http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3204
    and if you need it
    http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4301

    #123 1 year ago

    Not sure anybody really covered erasers.
    By far the best eraser to get is from Spectroline - something like the PE140T (1 bulb) or PE240T (2 bulbs).
    Watch ebay for them. I got a like new PE240T off ebay for something like $30 with a 'buy it now'. I didn't see any today at a reasonable price but they do pop up often.

    #124 1 year ago

    Just had an issue with a Texas instruments 2764 using the TL866. It would read and verify blank but when trying to program it would error claiming over current. And just trying a different chip worked just fine. It was nice to see it flag an issue and not self destruct.

    10 months later
    #125 3 months ago
    Quoted from Phat_Jay:

    Hi guys, I have a tl866, but it won’t burn the 25v chips. I need to burn some 2532’s which are 25v. Is the gq-4x reliable for them? From what I’ve read here it should work, just need to know for sure as cash is tight and rather not buy another burner if it won’t work for me. Thx again guys, I kno very little about this.

    It should, but for me at least, it has not. I've got six TMS2532A-##JL chips, and can not get them burned on the GQ-4X. I am in the process of experimenting with the different options, but to this point, I have had no success with this lot of chips. I can't remember where I got them right now, went looking through my receipts and can't find one for those chips.

    I've got 2732's that I have burned with no issues whatsoever with the GQ-4X. I also have 27C128's for D&D, that I can not get to burn on the GQ-4X.

    Got those last two from Marco, so all else aside they "should" be reliable. So, I've got this new burner, and two of the three chips I want to be able to burn, I can't get to burn. The 2732's and the 2532's are for Fireball II.

    I haven't even begun to consider chips for the Lord of the Rings pin.

    This is frustrating.

    All ROM zips downloaded from IPDB, btw. I am using the 9v power source, but it has made no difference. I can - and have - burned the 2732's without it. I've tried it on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, and a new XP machine I built for legacy stuff I still use.

    eta

    it is likely that I got the 2532's from Marco.

    #126 3 months ago

    For what it's worth, I have a Pocket Programmer II (Parallel port, external 9v power supply) and I use it mainly for 2816 chips. They are the electronically erasable version of the 2716 (so you don't need to erase via UV light).

    I recently started having issues burning images into the 2816. I'm sure the issue isnt related to the chip, but rather the power supply. I find if I leave it plugged in 24/7 it starts failing to write images. Unplugging for a few moments fixes the issue, so now I always just unplug it after use.

    Aside from that, it has given me decades of great service

    #127 3 months ago
    Quoted from pincoder:

    For what it's worth, I have a Pocket Programmer II (Parallel port, external 9v power supply) and I use it mainly for 2816 chips. They are the electronically erasable version of the 2716 (so you don't need to erase via UV light).
    I recently started having issues burning images into the 2816. I'm sure the issue isnt related to the chip, but rather the power supply. I find if I leave it plugged in 24/7 it starts failing to write images. Unplugging for a few moments fixes the issue, so now I always just unplug it after use.
    Aside from that, it has given me decades of great service

    Electronically erasable you say? Sounds appealing! I'll have to check those out.

    #128 3 months ago
    Quoted from jlbintn:

    It should, but for me at least, it has not. I've got six TMS2532A-##JL chips, and can not get them burned on the GQ-4X. I am in the process of experimenting with the different options, but to this point, I have had no success with this lot of chips. I can't remember where I got them right now, went looking through my receipts and can't find one for those chips.
    I've got 2732's that I have burned with no issues whatsoever with the GQ-4X. I also have 27C128's for D&D, that I can not get to burn on the GQ-4X.
    Got those last two from Marco, so all else aside they "should" be reliable. So, I've got this new burner, and two of the three chips I want to be able to burn, I can't get to burn. The 2732's and the 2532's are for Fireball II.
    I haven't even begun to consider chips for the Lord of the Rings pin.
    This is frustrating.
    All ROM zips downloaded from IPDB, btw. I am using the 9v power source, but it has made no difference. I can - and have - burned the 2732's without it. I've tried it on Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, and a new XP machine I built for legacy stuff I still use.
    eta
    it is likely that I got the 2532's from Marco.

    Ive only burnt M27Cxxxx chip with my GQ-4X so far, after a while it stopped working and failed but after cleaning the ZIF socket with electronic cleaner spray and air duster spray it worked again.
    Might be worth a try, I removed the socket board when I cleaned it.
    Ive bought a better gold socket but havent changed it yet.

    #129 3 months ago

    UV erasable EPROMs are no longer made.
    But - you can still buy alternates:

    OTPs (I use these often) -- One time programmable Programmable Memory. Essentially the same as an EPROM but in a plastic DIP package without the window. Not erasable, program it once: if wrong or changes need to be made then you toss it and get another. These can often be purchased cheap enough to compete with the Chinese EBAY EPROMs. And with the OTPs (through a reputable source) - you get new, non-questionable parts. These are available down to size 27256 (32K x 8).

    FLASH PROMs. Bit trickier to use than an EPROM. Dirt cheap but only larger sizes available and in surface mount packages. DIP parts are NLA.

    EEPROMs -- Electrically Erasable, Programmable Memory. Inexpensive and can get these down to 6K x 8 (equivalent to a 27C64), they cost a bit more than 2x that of an OTP but still cheaper than what the UV EPROMs cost when they were still making them. These will run you about $2.50 each at this size.

    Sizes under 27C64 - SOL for replacements.

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