(Topic ID: 7260)

ROM burners - anyone got recommendations?


By DrAzzy

7 years ago



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  • 129 posts
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  • Latest reply 5 months ago by G-P-E
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    There are 129 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 3.
    #51 3 years ago
    Quoted from Riptor:

    I do not recommend the pocket programmer III. It is flaky and their tech support is total crap. I had an issue where it wouldnt program 2732 after a software update. They insisted I was using bad roms even after telling them many times they were NOS ones that program just fine in other programmer. I ended up sending them a tube of them to "test" but never got them back or even heard a peep from them again.
    I also bought a rather expensive prom adapter to burn bipolar proms and it never did work.
    Buy the GQ-4X and you wont be disappointed. It will do everything from 2716 to 27C080 without an adapter. For old bipolar proms I use an ancient Data IO 29B. I have a second GQ-4X nib as a backup in case mine ever fails. I have burned thousands of eproms with mine...wore out the original zif socket I used it so much. New zif socket and its still kicking along.
    Currently running GQ4X on windows 7 64 bit.
    When using USB programmers you should always use a usb port on the rear of the pc. Many times the front ports do not supply enough current and you may have issues. I run external power on mine always, it just stays plugged in all the time.
    The software says it does not support 2532 but no worrys there. 2532 are what I use the most and I have never had an issue burning them with the GQ-4X.

    Ironically, I'm using an old PP2 with over 25k burns on it, and the original ZIF socket is still humming along fine.

    I've got 4 parallel PP2s and 2 USB PP2s. Never tried a PP3. I still run the PP2s under Windows 2000 because I've found it is the most stable OS with them.

    #52 3 years ago

    Fuck PP2 !! And as stated by another there tech support crap. Purchased as a recommendation from old RGP post and wish I didn't.

    #53 3 years ago

    Another GQ-4X here and never had a problem with it for the few years I have used it.

    #54 3 years ago

    I use an array of programmers. I have a data i/o 29a (for really early stuff) an EEtools Topmax (does dam near everything except super early stuff) I have a Data i/o optima that was given to me, haven't played with that one yet. also have a EEtools chipmax that I had for years before I got my Topmax.

    #55 3 years ago

    I have the GQ-4X and the PP2. The PP2 I leave on my desk always as it is small and does most of what I need. The GQ-4X I break out for older stuff, it works great but takes up more desk space.

    #56 3 years ago

    I'd read recommendations in the past for the top853 but that's an older model..

    Bought a top2008 for less than $50 on alibaba as the chinese seller said that's a more recent model.. was cheap and has usb..
    Unfortunately I couldn't get it working in Win7 x64.. The software does work fine in windows xp (virtual machine).

    It programs most eproms I've tried, even 21/25v, but you do have to lookup and set the timing in ms as it is different for each type of eprom and the software defaults aren't always correct (it'll start writing and quickly fail).
    So if you only need to occasionally burn an eprom it's a cheap solution.

    If you have a 64-bit windows then their more recent top programmers (top2013/top3000/top3100) should work fine..

    #57 3 years ago

    GQ-4X = inexpensive but works great!

    #58 3 years ago

    GQ-4X - got it with the eraser last year on Black Friday special. Works great.

    #59 3 years ago

    gq-4x end of story

    #60 3 years ago

    I gave up on all these Chinese mini-burners. They're good for just EPROMs but not much beyond that. Most don't do the devices I need to program, some claimed to program all parts but just didn't work (TOP3000). Ended up with an Advin U128+ from ebay for $90 and use an old dedicated laptop to program the parts. Can now pretty much program anything including old PROMs and PALS without needing to pull out the old Data-OhNo.

    3 months later
    #61 3 years ago

    I got the GQ-4X to program some custom 2732s for the Bally -35 MPU. Also used an external 9VDC 300 mA power adapter. About half the time I started the application it would not be able to connect to the burner, so it would go into "demo mode". When it did connect, it would often stop in the middle of burning a chip. This behavior was consistent whether or not I used the power adapter.

    I sent the unit back to MCUMall for a replacement, and to my surprise I got a call from one of their techs. He said it works fine and asked if I wanted a refund. I said I'll take it back if you'll walk me through the app and driver installation. When I got it back he helped me install it and it appeared to work fine, no more connection problems, but I was thinking, "This is exactly how I set it up before, why does it work now?"

    Sure enough, when I went to use it a couple of months later, it had the flaky connection problem again. I was about to give up and buy something more expensive, but then I tried running it through a powered USB hub. Happy to say it works reliably through the hub, no connection or burning problems. I used a Belkin F4U058TT USB 3.0 hub from Best Buy, but probably any powered hub would work.

    My particular unit may have a weak/flaky USB interface, and the tech who tested it at MCUMall may have been using a powered hub, I dunno.

    Michael Beverly

    #62 3 years ago

    Anywhere online to get a good old eprom burner? Maybe something that is not 100$

    I don't mind DOS based with serial connections.

    TY

    #63 3 years ago

    Does anyone know if the GQ-4X can burn the RUNDMD clock MCU? It's a dsPIC33EP MCU.

    I would like to burn EPROMs for my machines and update my clock.

    #64 3 years ago

    Good, ole does everything programmer -- rare to find them under $100.
    However, there is one on ebay right now. See item 172139907014. It's the high end U128+ for $56.

    Software can be downloaded from www.advin.com Can also find the device list for this programmer at that link.
    http://www.advin.com/universal-programmer-chip-list.htm#LEGACY for complete list of these older programmers.
    Requires a computer with a parallel port. For this, I have a dedicated Dell laptop for control. Will run on windows up to XP but no newer.

    Awesome programmer assuming the one they are selling works. Fortunately, these buggers are pretty tough.

    But won't do the later PICs such as the dsPIC33EP as mentioned by phillymadison

    #65 3 years ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    Good, ole does everything programmer -- rare to find them under $100.
    However, there is one on ebay right now. See item 172139907014. It's the high end U128+ for $56.
    Software can be downloaded from http://www.advin.com Can also find the device list for this programmer at that link.
    http://www.advin.com/universal-programmer-chip-list.htm#LEGACY for complete list of these older programmers.
    Requires a computer with a parallel port. For this, I have a dedicated Dell laptop for control. Will run on windows up to XP but no newer.
    Awesome programmer assuming the one they are selling works. Fortunately, these buggers are pretty tough.
    But won't do the later PICs such as the dsPIC33EP as mentioned by phillymadison

    Bah lol. Ok I'll just settle on updating my emproms and not worry about the MCU. Thanks

    Side note when will Great Plains be open again? I saw you are taking off a few days

    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from phillymadison:

    I saw you are taking off a few days

    Pretty much everybody came down with the flu at the same time. Everybody's doing better but I don't expect to be back to normal until Thursday.

    Regarding that Advin - it's a beast! Been using them since they first came out a kajillion years ago and they have never let me down.
    Only downside is parallel port driven and requires software to be XP or older. Item had been relisted at $50 -- awesome price! I'm waiting for somebody to put a gang programmer adapter on ebay at an affordable price.

    I also used to own a SuperPro (3000?). Hated it. Worked fine for EPROMs but didn't do PALs at all. Would go through the motions, say it programmed and tested yet the part would still be blank.
    And I have a fairly new MiniPro USB TL866CS sitting next to me. Very limited number of parts that it will do. It just sits there gathering dust.

    #67 3 years ago

    I have a advin Pilot too with some adapters and gang programmer.
    Great tool!

    #68 3 years ago

    Is there one that has Mac OS X drivers?

    7 months later
    #69 2 years ago

    Trying to burn the two display ROMS for Frankenstein using my dedicated vista laptop and TOP853 Programmer.

    The 2 chips are ST M27C4001-12FI.

    This chip isn't listed as a chip in the TOPWIN6 software chip selection.

    I see lots of SST chips but not even a category for ST.

    Question: Can I use another listed CHIP to burn from the menu or am I needing to get a different EPROM Burner?

    #70 2 years ago
    Quoted from CUJO:

    Trying to burn the two display ROMS for Frankenstein using my dedicated vista laptop and TOP853 Programmer.
    The 2 chips are ST M27C4001-12FI.
    This chip isn't listed as a chip in the TOPWIN6 software chip selection.
    I see lots of SST chips but not even a category for ST.
    Question: Can I use another listed CHIP to burn from the menu or am I needing to get a different EPROM Burner?

    I'm not famiiar with TOP burner, but..
    Any 4001 or 040 ID should work. A 28C.... may work as well, as long as you don't try erasing it in the burner.

    #71 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    I'm not famiiar with TOP burner, but..
    Any 4001 or 040 ID should work. A 28C.... may work as well, as long as you don't try erasing it in the burner.

    Question on cleaning the sticky residue off the eprom clear window.
    Is Goo Gone on a Q-TIP ok? They were really gunked up.

    #72 2 years ago
    Quoted from CUJO:

    Question on cleaning the sticky residue off the eprom clear window.
    Is Goo Gone on a Q-TIP ok? They were really gunked up.

    Yeah. You could stick the thing in a dishwasher if you wanted. I usually use a alcohol swab.

    #73 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Yeah. You could stick the thing in a dishwasher if you wanted. I usually use a alcohol swab.

    LOL.
    I got one of the two burned ok. A1.03

    I burnished up the pins of them after erasing them for 20 min.

    The other still failed in the middle of the burn so back in the ulraviolet tank.

    Going to try again.

    #74 2 years ago
    Quoted from CUJO:

    Question on cleaning the sticky residue off the eprom clear window.
    Is Goo Gone on a Q-TIP ok? They were really gunked up.

    That's what I used, followed by isopropyl alcohol to clean up anything left over.

    1 week later
    #75 2 years ago
    Quoted from phillymadison:

    Does anyone know if the GQ-4X can burn the RUNDMD clock MCU? It's a dsPIC33EP MCU.
    I would like to burn EPROMs for my machines and update my clock.

    I realize this question is seven months old, but the RUN-DMD clock uses a PIC chip. The GQ-4X cannot be used to program these. See this thread for more details ...

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/run-dmd-programming-the-pic-chip-1

    2 months later
    #76 2 years ago

    Do you still recommend the G840? Thinking of buying one and its like $45 cheaper than the the GQ4X. Really just trying to upgrade the CPU and Display roms on my JP machine.

    #78 2 years ago
    Quoted from Time:

    Do you still recommend the G840? Thinking of buying one and its like $45 cheaper than the the GQ4X. Really just trying to upgrade the CPU and Display roms on my JP machine.

    Why bother buying a programmer then. Just contact one of the many people in the community to burn you new chips.

    1 month later
    #79 2 years ago

    Looking even for a webpage with a matrix on it--showing compatible pinball games & EPROMs.
    Anyone have a list of EPROMs (burnable in the GQ-4X) compatible with:

    (Stern Whitestar)
    Lord of the Rings
    Ripley's Believe it or Not!

    (WPC Fliptronics)
    BSD

    (Data East)
    Adventures of Rocky & Bullwinkle

    There's a matrix linked from here, but there are a zillion choices and I don't know how to match pinball machine (MPU) to compatible EPROM.

    How do I go about finding a match (for compatibility's sake) for those games? I assume part numbers from Stern/D.E./Williams don't match current part numbers.

    #80 2 years ago

    GQ-4X will support all of those games

    #81 2 years ago
    Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

    GQ-4X will support all of those games

    What if I don't want to erase the EPROMs currently on the boards, and just want to burn new EPROMs?

    Where do you get them, and how do I figure out the part numbers for those? I assume the part numbers may not match what is in the manual for each game (given that they're all older games).

    #82 2 years ago
    Quoted from chadderack:

    What if I don't want to erase the EPROMs currently on the boards, and just want to burn new EPROMs?
    Where do you get them, and how do I figure out the part numbers for those? I assume the part numbers may not match what is in the manual for each game (given that they're all older games).

    Download the firmware's image file from your favorite pinball site.
    Look at the size of the firmware file.
    Get a chip that holds the data that matches the size of the firmware file.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM

    #83 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Download the firmware's image file from your favorite pinball site.
    Look at the size of the firmware file.
    Get a chip that holds the data that matches the size of the firmware file.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM

    Thanks. There's a matrix of types on that page. Apparently the chip size should be 8 x the size of the rom image file.

    #84 2 years ago
    Quoted from chadderack:

    Thanks. There's a matrix of types on that page. Apparently the chip size should be 8 x the size of the rom image file.

    That is correct. File sizes are in kilobytes, and eproms are sized by their capacity in kilobits.

    #85 2 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Download the firmware's image file from your favorite pinball site.
    Look at the size of the firmware file.
    Get a chip that holds the data that matches the size of the firmware file.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM

    Here is the chart Coyote is talking about.
    Untitled (resized).png

    For old EPROMs, you have to pretty much use a 2nd source or gray market product. China makes clones of the smaller EPROMs that no main manufacturer is still producing. They work fine for the most part.

    Another tip.... You can sub larger EPROMs for a smaller one when the pin out matches. Take a 2764 (64Kb) and a 27128 (128Kb). They both are in the same 28 pin package. Yet the 27128 has an extra address line at P26 that is not connected in 2764. That means you can fill up a 27128 with two copies of a 2764 image and use that in its place. So if you don't want to stock 2764, you don't have too. Same goes for 2732 vs 2716 and other larger eproms. A lot of times a 2732 is the same price as 2716, so you dont have to buy both.

    2764 (1) (resized).png download (resized).png

    Example of new manufactured Chinese clones. I like to use them (pre erased, clean straight legs, typically work fine, cheap).
    ebay.com link » 50pcs M2732a 2f1 M2732a Eproms St

    #86 2 years ago
    Quoted from ngreenup:

    Has anyone used this burner? amazon.com link »
    from what I understand it should do everything I need it to do to burn most pinball roms... is that correct?

    I've used this one for almost two years now and it has more than paid for itself. Combine it with a UV eraser and you can reuse chips easily.

    Here's the link again: amazon.com link »

    #87 2 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    Here is the chart Coyote is talking about.

    For old EPROMs, you have to pretty much use a 2nd source or gray market product. China makes clones of the smaller EPROMs that no main manufacturer is still producing. They work fine for the most part.
    Another tip.... You can sub larger EPROMs for a smaller one when the pin out matches. Take a 2764 (64Kb) and a 27128 (128Kb). They both are in the same 28 pin package. Yet the 27128 has an extra address line at P26 that is not connected in 2764. That means you can fill up a 27128 with two copies of a 2764 image and use that in its place. So if you don't want to stock 2764, you don't have too. Same goes for 2732 vs 2716 and other larger eproms. A lot of times a 2732 is the same price as 2716, so you dont have to buy both.

    Example of new manufactured Chinese clones. I like to use them (pre erased, clean straight legs, typically work fine, cheap).
    ebay.com link » 50pcs M2732a 2f1 M2732a Eproms St

    Thank you. Just the type of info I was looking for.

    9 months later
    #88 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    We bought one of these just to play with and see, and my guys like it. Does everything we need and we have used it more then a doz times with out issue. We have a big burner too, but this is good for us as a secondary or in the field burner.
    ebay.com link » Newes Universal Willem Eprom Programmer Pcb50x Spi Flash Bios Ecu Pic

    Are these still considered a good choice as a general purpose ROM burner? I am mainly looking to update display, sound and game ROMs on 80s, 90s and 00s games.

    #89 1 year ago
    Quoted from arolden:

    Are these still considered a good choice as a general purpose ROM burner? I am mainly looking to update display, sound and game ROMs on 80s, 90s and 00s games.

    If JJ recommends it, then I'm assuming it's a decent burner. It's definitely priced right.

    #90 1 year ago
    Quoted from arolden:

    Are these still considered a good choice as a general purpose ROM burner? I am mainly looking to update display, sound and game ROMs on 80s, 90s and 00s games.

    Looks like the smallest EPROM listed is 2764. If you plan on doing the 2716, 2532, 2732s for early wms, bally, stern, etc get a GQ-4X and powered USB hub / 9v wall wart so you can do the 25v chips.

    Measuring the Vpp the GQ-4X never actually gets to 25v, even with an external power supply and/or powered USB hub, but it still seems to handle most 25v chips. Probably why I had problems getting GQ-4X to do TMS2732. Sometimes they would burn ok and then have bad bits start showing up in 24 hours, burn incredibly slow, or just refuse to burn. I just avoid those EPROMs. GQ-4X handles the china clones of the old 25v EPROMs just fine (assuming the chip is OK) and 2532s.

    #91 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gexchange:

    We bought one of these just to play with and see, and my guys like it. Does everything we need and we have used it more then a doz times with out issue. We have a big burner too, but this is good for us as a secondary or in the field burner.
    ebay.com link » Newes Universal Willem Eprom Programmer Pcb50x Spi Flash Bios Ecu Pic

    Quoted from arolden:

    Are these still considered a good choice as a general purpose ROM burner? I am mainly looking to update display, sound and game ROMs on 80s, 90s and 00s games.

    Stay away from anything that's a Willem-based design. You're asking for problems.

    I've used a TL866 for a while and it's served me well but I haven't tried to burn any of the really old / high voltage EPROMs. GQ-4X seems to be popular choice as well.

    #92 1 year ago
    Quoted from RatShack:

    Stay away from anything that's a Willem-based design. You're asking for problems.

    Quoted from RatShack:

    GQ-4X seems to be popular choice as well.

    I'm confused. Isn't the GQ-4X a "Willem-based design"?

    #93 1 year ago

    I've used a number of different burners from Batronix. Always been happy with them. I only had to upgrade the last one to a better model when it couldn't program the chips in a Hyperball. Support was always good, too.

    https://www.batronix.com/shop/programmer/index.html

    #94 1 year ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I'm confused. Isn't the GQ-4X a "Willem-based design"?

    I wasn't aware the GQ-4X was marketed as such, maybe it's compatible with existing adapters? Maybe they're using Willem as a synonym for universal programmer? Maybe it's just in there so it shows up in search results? Who knows.

    By Willem, I am referring to the cheap, PCB-only programmers that require setting jumpers, dip switches, and probably connect via parallel port. These are all over eBay.

    DualPowerWillemAT29C256 (resized).jpg

    #95 1 year ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    Example of new manufactured Chinese clones. I like to use them (pre erased, clean straight legs, typically work fine, cheap).
    ebay.com link » 50pcs M2732a 2f1 M2732a Eproms St

    Any issues with using different revisions / manufacturers of EPROMs? Especially ones from ebay?

    Do you usually substitute 27128 -> 2764 regularly?

    #96 1 year ago
    Quoted from comment23:

    Any issues with using different revisions / manufacturers of EPROMs? Especially ones from ebay?

    I buy all my EPROMs from eBay (mostly used ones that have been erased and tested). As long as you deal with a reputable seller with good feedback, you should be fine.

    #97 1 year ago

    China doesn't "make" newly manufactured clones. They remove old EPROMs from waste boards, make them look pretty and resell them as new. For now it seems most work but as supplies dwindle....

    In most cases you can mix and match revisions and manufacturers. Exceptions to this are the really old EPROMs that require multiple voltages. You can often move up in size easy enough but you need to look at the extended address pin of the larger device. Does it get tied to ground/+5V? Unconnected & floating? Usually they are tied off to ground or +5V.
    For example -- a 27C64 doesn't use pin 26. A 27C128 uses pin 26 as the high order address pin. If the destination board has this tied to ground then you simply copy the smaller EPROM into the larger EPROM. If the destination board has this tied to +5V then you double the image or program the smaller EPROM into the larger EPROM's high order of memory.

    You can still buy OTP type memories from places like Mouser but smallest is 32K x 8. Search for AT27C256R-70PU.
    These are much cheaper than regular EPROMs (just over a buck apiece) but are not eraseable. If you need to update or screw up programming - you simply toss it in the trash and grab another.

    #98 1 year ago
    Quoted from G-P-E:

    China doesn't "make" newly manufactured clones. They remove old EPROMs from waste boards, make them look pretty and resell them as new. For now it seems most work but as supplies dwindle....
    In most cases you can mix and match revisions and manufacturers. Exceptions to this are the really old EPROMs that require multiple voltages. You can often move up in size easy enough but you need to look at the extended address pin of the larger device. Does it get tied to ground/+5V? Unconnected & floating? Usually they are tied off to ground or +5V.
    For example -- a 27C64 doesn't use pin 26. A 27C128 uses pin 26 as the high order address pin. If the destination board has this tied to ground then you simply copy the smaller EPROM into the larger EPROM. If the destination board has this tied to +5V then you double the image or program the smaller EPROM into the larger EPROM's high order of memory.
    You can still buy OTP type memories from places like Mouser but smallest is 32K x 8. Search for AT27C256R-70PU.
    These are much cheaper than regular EPROMs (just over a buck apiece) but are not eraseable. If you need to update or screw up programming - you simply toss it in the trash and grab another.

    You are wrong on this one. They most certainly make EPROMs under the STMicro brand name. Some rogue manufacturer has the functional dyes and makes the parts.

    When you order them by the case they even came in fake STMicro branded packaging with some Engrish on it, logo printed wrong, etc.

    There are rogue manufacturers pumping out 7400 and 4000 series parts too. Sometimes they have issues, sometims they mark HC chips as LS. But they are new made counterfiets , not refurbs. Fake new made transistors (dodgy as all hell) are out there too.

    20171228_204914 (resized).jpg
    20171228_204827 (resized).jpg

    #99 1 year ago

    Hi guys, I have a tl866, but it won’t burn the 25v chips. I need to burn some 2532’s which are 25v. Is the gq-4x reliable for them? From what I’ve read here it should work, just need to know for sure as cash is tight and rather not buy another burner if it won’t work for me. Thx again guys, I kno very little about this.

    #100 1 year ago

    Wow!
    Those parts are just as bad - they are blatant counterfeits and ST would be real interested in that one. Really importing those by the case?!?! Takes balls bringing those in through customs -> with the right customs agent, a case of those can be accompanied with a $2M fine ($2M for an individual, $5M for a company) plus up to 10 years in jail. I would really think twice about ordering from that source.

    ST discontinued 2732s long, long before 2013. They are blatantly taking some parts from 'somewhere' and marking them with the ST logo, part number and selling them as new ST parts. That clearly qualifies them as counterfeit parts.
    Those could be 'fell of the back of a truck' parts remarked to make them look like STs. Or maybe trash canned 'failed functional test' parts. Or ... who knows.
    When we made parts (yes, unfortunately many were fabbed in China) - functional test was much more stringent than what we pinheads need for our uses. Most "failed" parts would pass what we would consider functional but will fail by small degrees in areas such as access time or power consumption. At the time, more and more of our failed parts were somehow making their way back into the consumer market. To curb this - we had to shred failed parts that were made in China, Korea, Singapore and other far east countries. We still had many parts fall off the backs of trucks. They would ship 100K of one part... and we would receive 95K. Happened quite often and nobody over there gave a fat rat's patootie. "Huh, well... we must have miscounted."

    If the Chinese were smart about this - they would sell them under their own name as new parts. Nobody could contest that. New DingDong brand parts would be better than mystery counterfeit ST parts or no parts at all.

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