(Topic ID: 130434)

Rob Zombie's Spook Show International


By Russell

4 years ago



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#1251 4 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

Apparently they dont have license to sell overseas/europe... what the hell :s

True (except for Australia). But I do not think this is a license issue, rather a EU certification problem.

#1252 4 years ago
Quoted from Edenecho:

Apparently they dont have license to sell overseas/europe... what the hell :s

I know dealing with the power differences might be an issue but what license do you need to sell overseas??

-3
#1253 4 years ago
Quoted from PinRebel:

I know dealing with the power differences might be an issue but what license do you need to sell overseas??

like you in particular are concerned with any license... LOL I thought this duplicate account of yours was frozen like the first one?

#1254 4 years ago
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:

this game isn't going to make it to Expo.

bummer but totally understand.

When is it likely that people will be able to see and play the pre-production game? I am sure many would like to book our travel plans and PTO ASAP.

-1
#1255 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

like you in particular are concerned with any license... LOL I thought this duplicate account of yours was frozen like the first one?

You can keep stalking all you want and accuse me of having multiple accounts but youre just wrong jerk.

#1256 4 years ago

Way to go charlie; I concur take your time and release the info when it is ready; instead of rushing it

#1257 4 years ago

Charlie, thanks for the communication!

#1258 4 years ago

I'm disappointed to not see it at Expo or Terry's, but I'd much rather you took the time to finish it properly first. Showing incomplete work sucks. Even if people are impatient!

(Not that it matters, but I'm on the list for one for the record.)

#1259 4 years ago

Just a note that i had friends over playing AMH and one of the really cool things with it is how the backglass LEDs change to match the mode or effect that's happening on the playfield. It's a really nice effect and on location is really catchy since most machines the backbox lighting is static. Not sure if it makes sense for this pin but it's something I really love on AMH and is great to attract attention if you are looking for it to earn on location.

#1260 4 years ago

Nice of Spooky to give something else the chance to shine at Expo rather than consuming all other news with the RZ playfield reveal

#1261 4 years ago
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:

Busy as hell guys, but just to be clear... this game isn't going to make it to Expo. Little more art to go, and until it's 100% complete we can't show anything more.
Won't be long... wish we would have made it to Expo with the game, but we'd rather have it right than rushed. Production is still looking pretty good for January, and that's what really matters! (keeps us in business and Minions working... kind of REALLY important).
Rob's an awesome guy to work with... Every detail of the game matters to him. I was hoping to just meet the guy when we delivered his game. Lol!!! Far beyond that... he cares a ton about this and is all over every aspect.
Thanks! See you guys at Pinball Life all day Friday for the AMH #150 charity auction with Svengoolie, and we'll be at Expo all day Saturday walking around & speaking at noon.

Thanks for the straightforward update. Love reading that production still looks good for January. So cool that Rob is all over it with you...must be surreal. It's certainly not going to hurt any of us to get a few more days to accumulate our $1k down deposits

selfishly, since I can't make it to expo, well I'm ok with it not being shown yet ^_^

#1262 4 years ago

Spooky Pinball panel from Expo (thanks to WaddleJrJr):

#1263 4 years ago

what I got out of that talk:

playfield art will be done in 2 weeks, with another week to populate a playfield before it's shown.
Playfield art by Alex is sketched, then watercolored, then oils, then dried, then scanned. Also rob zombie contributed to some of the art?
There are 700 people total on the waiting list
RZ will be easier to do code updates
There will be nudity in the dots, but there will be a family mode
The ball save is something new that hasn't been done before
Music license is as costly as the rob zombie license itself (every person in the room while recording a song has to get paid), it's no wonder why they are so adamant about buyers not replacing music (or at least publically showing it)
Any character made by rob zombie is included, characters used in the movie may not
The new manufacturing building will be 5,000 square feet

#1264 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

what I got out of that talk:
playfield art will be done in 2 weeks, with another week to populate a playfield before it's shown.
Playfield art by Alex is sketched, then watercolored, then oils, then dried, then scanned. Also rob zombie contributed to some of the art?
There are 700 people total on the waiting list
RZ will be easier to do code updates
There will be nudity in the dots, but there will be a family mode
The ball save is something new that hasn't been done before
The new manufacturing building will be 5,000 square feet

Rob did the logo that will be used on the game.

Ball save is nothing new, they just said the animation is incredibly shocking and awesome.

#1265 4 years ago

Why was ben dressed up as python?

#1266 4 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

what I got out of that talk:
playfield art will be done in 2 weeks, with another week to populate a playfield before it's shown.
Playfield art by Alex is sketched, then watercolored, then oils, then dried, then scanned. Also rob zombie contributed to some of the art?
There are 700 people total on the waiting list
RZ will be easier to do code updates
There will be nudity in the dots, but there will be a family mode
The ball save is something new that hasn't been done before
The new manufacturing building will be 5,000 square feet

I got pretty same thing from the talk. It's going to be a awesome game

-3
#1267 4 years ago

Shame to limit it to 300, this pin seems to be a winner so far, no guarantee the next pin will be, so why not make hay when the sun shines?

Larger factory means ability for more staff and equipment

Doesnt make business sense to me.

No one would begrudge spooky for increasing the run and im sure rob zombie would get on board too.

17
#1268 4 years ago

I think limiting to 300 is actually smart business for a new company. They want to keep coming out with new pins every year rather than do 1000 units which may or may not sell and take 2-3 years to produce. This is a conservative intelligent approach for a new up and coming pinball company. Good job Spooky!

#1270 4 years ago

Somebody modded Ben?

#1271 4 years ago

C'mon fellas trust their biz model and style.
Let them build these and move onto pin #3.
When 'RZ' proves to be a success, I can imagine 300 people pre-paying in FULL for the the VAULT edition in 2018 or so...

Scarcity, and a proven track record on the pin will make it happen when the time is right. No reason to cry about it this year. You may get your 'RZ' pin in round 2...

-mof

#1272 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

for the the VAULT edition in 2018 or so...

I really don't see spooky ever doing that. They pick a number and stick to it. They have integrity and once they say something they would never do that. They understand the added value of something being rare helping to influence people to purchase (value tends to hold when limited so many pinheads see it as a safe game to buy knowing if they do not like it then they can sell later for a similar price ). Remember that nobody paid in on amh when it first came out and it was only after they decided to limit it to 150 that things picked up. Vault edition is Sterns thing.

#1273 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I really don't see spooky ever doing that. They pick a number and stick to it. They have integrity and once they say something they would never do that. They understand the added value of something being collectible. Remember that nobody paid in on amh when it first came out and it was only after they decided to limit it to 150 that things picked up. Vault edition is Sterns thing.

Collectible? Like Stern doing 1,000 LEs as still being collectible? I don't think Spooky would make pins just to be collectible. I would think it's more or of love for... And sharing that love with others. As such, in the camp of increasing the production numbers. Who is buyin pins to turn a profit? We are buying to enjoy and share the love. I don't think he should be coerced to produce more. That's his decision... But certainly the market wants to see more... 700 more and would be nice to see more float in the market instead of be horded by 'collectors' instead of moving in open market as players games. If I owned a cool 1 of 300 I would never let it leave my collection. That's a shame...

#1274 4 years ago

Edited post to be more clear. Rare to help influence purchase is probably better that collectible as a way to say it.

Reality is that they have been very clear for making 300 so they can get them built in a 2 year span. Makes sense and my added point is that when they pick a number they stick to it; they have shown that with amh already.

10
#1275 4 years ago

I'd prefer to work on more than one game every 5+ years

#1276 4 years ago

How about just letting these guys make great pins that people want?

They feel comfortable making 300 of them without undue pressure and overhead build.

Not everybody is going to get one on day one. So what. Pick one up later HUO.

Pinball is not about "exclusive" or "limited" BS. Really no such thing as an "LE"

#1277 4 years ago

Overfunding causes a lot of crowdsourced projects to fail.

A business model that may have worked on a 50k project to sell qnty 100 $500 3D printers completely goes out the window when you get funded for $1,000,000 and now have to build 2000 of them.

Chuck can't jump from 2000 sq ft to Stern - he has to have manageable growth. Biting off more than he can chew is a good way to end up in the weeds

Plus RZ isn't a hard limit of 300 like AMH was. If things go well, he could always extend the contract.

#1278 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Plus RZ isn't a hard limit of 300 like AMH was. If things go well, he could always extend the contract.

As someone on the list who's hoping the final game is awesome and then will buy it I totally would not mind if he made more than 300. But I can see some bitching from some, so I'd probably clarify that as the policy before it's built, just to avoid any pissed of people.

#1279 4 years ago

Chuck is going to roll with it at 300 because that's a safe number. We don't want people to feel left out, but also can't over promise and do something even worse which is fail to get the games done.

Small runs - it's still boutique after all.

#1280 4 years ago

All I am saying that obviously if the demand is there expand the business not to stern size but even doubling the capacity should allow 600 to be built in the same time frame.

The design is done the BOM is done, seems a shame to not take advantage of a winner.

They will still have demand at 600 units, the price is competitive and the artwork looks like it will destroy everything out there. ( I am presuming it wont be a dog gameplay wise)
17 k likes on facebook for the translight, even if 2% of these people want to but a machine that is virtually another 340 customers that will be unable to buy.

Bigger picture, future licenses may want more than 300 units so the capacity needs to be there.

PS I am an admirer of what these guys have done and what they are doing.

#1281 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Plus RZ isn't a hard limit of 300 like AMH was. If things go well, he could always extend the contract.

This seems to contradict this previous post from Charlie (any clarification?):

Quoted from SpookyCharlie:

We do have it in place should the need arise that we can extend the contract to complete the build, but we can't extend the contract for number of games sold. 300 is double what AMH was, so this is a BIG jump for our facility and team.
.

#1282 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I really don't see spooky ever doing that. They pick a number and stick to it. They have integrity and once they say something they would never do that. They understand the added value of something being rare helping to influence people to purchase (value tends to hold when limited so many pinheads see it as a safe game to buy knowing if they do not like it then they can sell later for a similar price ). Remember that nobody paid in on amh when it first came out and it was only after they decided to limit it to 150 that things picked up. Vault edition is Sterns thing.

I am just curious. So would you hold it against them if they changed their mind? If they decided to do more of a game that they stated would only be 300 or whatever, would you be upset with them? I could see situations where licenses would take longer to get approved and they run out of work and they just decide to do 100 or 200 of this game they used to make because there's demand and they have to keep people working. I am in favor of this low run model but it seems to me they should just make games till they're ready to move on to the next title.

#1283 4 years ago

I think if they'd change their minds, it'd be no problem is they told people before paying for their 1 of 300 games that they might do more. I think numbers fold for this title may be ok with that, but as someone else mentioned: with AMH the announcement 'we'll produce no more than 150' seemed to be needed to get people ordering the game.

#1284 4 years ago
Quoted from dmbjunky:

I am just curious. So would you hold it against them if they changed their mind?

They can do whatever they want, but any change of number or 'vault' crap post taking even a single dollar from a customer would not be a good thing IMHO.

To me it sounds like we are about a month out before they reveal the full game? and I think we each have to pay our 1k then? If that is correct then the sooner they can drop any info about change in number the better for them. From a business perspective they are dealing with a small and fickle bunch of repeat customers. I know I have made multiple buying decisions for both my personal collection and what we hope to put on route based on what was previously laid out by spooky and my plans to buy a RZ. I will understand if they change before money changes hands. Afterward and I will have little understanding.

I think they are doing it right based on their ability to build in a reasonable time, desire to keep it fresh with a new game every 2 years, timelines for reasonable development, keeping it a boutique model which tries to keep both ego and greed in check (hard things to do), etc... I like their business model and do not envy the tricky balance they need to make as they go forward. IMO they are doing it all right to this point and hope to see more of the same since their honest and open nature and desire to always improve and make things better is what makes much of it so cool.

#1285 4 years ago
Quoted from Medisinyl:

This seems to contradict this previous post from Charlie (any clarification?):

AMH was a hard stop at 150. RZ is set to 300 within 3 years.

One was a promise to spur sales, second was a safe estimate of capacity knowing full well they'd all sell.

If building more RZ becomes an option Chuck will explore it. Until such time he's not going to promise more games than he can build within the time he has.

Whereas with AMH it will never be made again, period.

#1286 4 years ago

I imagine Charlie and crew are currently looking at a list of 600 wanting in on this pin and they are starting to question whether 300 makes sense? At the same time, they are worried that if they commit to more they will be screwed. That's business! Before they take the 1000, they need to clarify or the community will flip. I personally would like to see them open up the run to 500 and let me explain why. The higher the run, the more profit this pin will generate and honestly, I want it to be the best pin possible. The larger the project, the more flexibility they will have with making adjustments and investing in the project. I could be wrong???

#1287 4 years ago

Its good for them to set it at 300 because they don't want to rush the builds or fail to meet what they promised.

#1288 4 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

AMH was a hard stop at 150. RZ is set to 300 within 3 years.
One was a promise to spur sales, second was a safe estimate of capacity knowing full well they'd all sell.
If building more RZ becomes an option Chuck will explore it. Until such time he's not going to promise more games than he can build within the time he has.
Whereas with AMH it will never be made again, period.

This is an adjustment to the original statement as I and many others understood it.....That being said, I am ok with it as long as someone puts a production cap at sometime in the near future or don't and just come forward and say we will make these until the cows come driving home.

#1289 4 years ago

Why not just let Spooky handle their production? If you want to buy their pin then buy their pin. If they make more or less that should not matter if you like the pin. If the purchase is an investment so you can flip down the road or being exclusive is that important then that is the risk you take. I don't give a butt what you think. I would love to see Spooky grow and make more unique pins. Same goes for Heighway. With their success, maybe Stern will put more effort into their pins. Success and more pins is good for all.

#1290 4 years ago

Wait for the reveal. When it's time for cash on the glass, that's the real list.

#1291 4 years ago

Exactly ! This crap about needing to know if it's one or a thousand is what has ruined pinball.
If you want one buy one. If there is excess demand please keep building to make buyers happy and more profit.

#1292 4 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Exactly ! This crap about needing to know if it's one or a thousand is what has ruined pinball.
If you want one buy one. If there is excess demand please keep building to make buyers happy and more profit.

lack of clear communication and changing the rules mid stream is what has hampered the pinball hobby.

Short sighted decisions by greedy businessmen is a large part of what has ruined pinball. These are expensive toys and if you cant both bring in new people and retain current collectors/players then it will all crumble and fall. You scare off new buyers when you tell them one thing (providing some perceived assurance of rarity which tends to connotate retained value over time) and then switch it up.

i.e. people had the false/wrong perception that MM was off the table and IM were off the table and see what happened... This has resulted in the new idea that every game is on the table when it comes to high end B/W and high resale Stern games (as it should be). Perceptions have been altered but in the long term this has put a bit of a cap on pinball sales of older games and popular Sterns (likely smart business if you are Stern making new games or remaking old games).

With spooky they need to continue to set clear expectations and perceptions. Up till now charlie has been clear that 150 is it for AMH and 300 is the RZ run. Ben is now saying differently and this leads to confusing expectations which IMO is not a great thing when you are in business. "Controlling expectations/perceptions is hard"

Set your parameters and hold to them. So long as all expectations are solid before money changes hands then game on.

First and foremost is make a F U N game. Secondary is make sure you dont screw it up by letting perceptions become fuzzy.

I am looking forward to the big reveal and seeing how this thing plays very soon! I love our AMH that we have on route and it is holding up well (after the typical tweaks for every route game we put out; also big props to Ben for adding all sorts of user functionality in code that is very important for route use!).

15
#1293 4 years ago

I think the short answer here is don't buy a pin if you are speculating and trying to hold or flip to make a quick profit. Isn't that what this 300 number discussion is all about? "Well, if Spooky builds more than 300 my RZ game is devalued!". Grow up.

Let Spooky run their damn business to make money and stay in the game. If someone gets burned because they speculated on something like this then go find another investment strategy.

Idiots trying to make money speculating on "rare" games messed up this hobby, not Stern vaults or anything else.

Buy a pinball because it's fun and leave it at that.

#1294 4 years ago
Quoted from Medisinyl:

This seems to contradict this previous post from Charlie (any clarification?):

I don't see a conflict. As I understand it, contract says they can sell/build 300 games in two years. If it takes them longer than the two years to build them all, the contract can be extended to complete the games that have been sold, but cannot be extended for the purpose of selling more than 300 games.

#1295 4 years ago

the only number I care about is the one at our arcade we will be playing when game is done.

#1296 4 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

I don't see a conflict. As I understand it, contract says they can sell/build 300 games in two years. If it takes them longer than the two years to build them all, the contract can be extended to complete the games that have been sold, but cannot be extended for the purpose of selling more than 300 games.

Exactly as I read it. The contradiction is that Ben is now saying that 300 isn't a cap as it had previously been stated (that they could actually make more than 300). In other words, the vast majority of people on the list are likely under the impression that there is a cap at 300. Many of them may not care if things change, but the fact that many will makes it something that needs clarification before money is exchanged. Either way, I'm thrilled a RZ pinball is getting made in any quantity.

#1297 4 years ago

Maybe one day we can get over feeling special for having something like a pinball machine that other people aren't able to obtain.

While I'm sure they want to move onto the next great idea, 300 is a really low number. Even if only 2/3 of the people who jumped are serious, and 1/2 the people on the waitlist are serious, they need to run at least 600 to come close to demand.

However, like AMH, first I play the game, then I decide if I like it, then I decide if I want to buy it. If they want to switch up that order in any way, they lost a customer. If they only want to make limited bunches, they could be fine with that.

I decided I was interested in AMH after I played it, and by then it was too late. I'll get over it, and they seem happy to limit their production, so I'm personally not sure if I'll ever own a pinball they make.

Which is a shame, if RZ is as good as AMH, I'd want one.

It's odd, to almost have to beg someone to take $6,000.

That's how I feel about it. Not judging them, if it works for them, they are doing what they need to do, and so am I.

I've got the means to buy RZ, I'd like to play and decide, it just seems like that should translate to a sale, but I have a feeling it won't in this case.

Quoted from benheck:

Plus RZ isn't a hard limit of 300 like AMH was.

Quoted from Aurich:

But I can see some bitching from some, so I'd probably clarify that as the policy before it's built, just to avoid any pissed of people.

11
#1298 4 years ago

How about you grow up and stop insulting people like a 12 year old man-child? It matters. $5000 is not an insignificant purchase. If Spooky plans on making more RZ pinballs, then that affects the urgency of buying one now. I can think of several reasons beyond "Investment flips" of why a clear, precise production intent is required before money collection starts. If round 2 could happen, then those pins would presumably have more bugs worked out.....round 2 could allow actual hands on game play for purchasing decision, etc etc etc........But reasonable discussions aren't possible on pinside without the insult trolls coming out calling everyone 'idiots'. Such a miserable place for the supposed 'serious of the serious' enthusiasts.

#1299 4 years ago

He did not call everyone an idiot . It was very specific as to who those folks are.

#1300 4 years ago

As long as rules do not change after money changes hands (deposit asked) I do not mind if they announce more than 300 games.
I am on the list but I have not paid anything, so Spooky can change the rules if they think they can make more than 300. They do not owe me anything.

Once / if I pay a $1000 deposit I expect a clear policy. Which can basically be anything from:
-"we will stick to 300"
-"we will make 400 or 500""
- "We will produce as many games as we can in 24 months - or 36..."

On the other hand, if producing more pins means waiting longer to see game #3, stick to 300!

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