No responses makes me wonder if it really was a common fault & maybe mine is just a one off case of bad luck, can someone comfirm they have had & played this machine long enough to be certain their machine is not affected. Spooky did seem to be aware of this happening they told me to wrap it in tape to stop it shorting out when the switch gets bent but only lasted 20 minutes. If your machines dont do it then what could be different with mine, the switch itself or the posts that hold up the upf

It's common to all RZ games. Happened to me once so far although I have fairly low plays on my game.

Well I think they need to get on the RZ code and finish the damn thing. ACNC’s aren’t exactly flying out the door.

I don't. I'd rather they get ACNC to somewhere near where they want it to be in the long run, and then do RZ.

Much better that it gets the time it needs than have something minimal and rushed.

Are you talking the RZ code update or ACNC?

At some points it’s just time to pick the low hanging fruit and finish off a project. I don’t see them adding much more code content to the game. I hope they have additional new items but I’m doubting it. The majority will be bug fixes and some minor adjustments.

Take 2-3 weeks and finish the damn thing. In fact it may be a nice break from ACNC as they’ve been working on that for months. Not many of those games have shipped and at the current time code is sufficient for the release.

I doubt they either will or feel they can spend 2 or 3 days, let alone 2 or 3 weeks on RZ at the moment. Not happening.

It's much better for all concerned if it gets finished properly with the time it needs.

Then this ball continually just gets kicked down the road. They will always be behind.

It’s time to get it finished and put in the rear view.

The code at current state of ACNC is sufficient enough for release. I’ve played it several times on location at an arcade near me.

RZ is a 2016 release. We’ve waited long enough. It’s not like ACNC is going to be code complete in a couple months.

What exactly are you waiting for on RZ? I have pretty much zero issues with the code.

Charlie has spoke about improvements to the code. Spooky has things they have acknowledged that need addressed. Just do it and get it done

They're never going to prioritise a game that was sold out years ago, production has long since finished on, and which has had 23 updates over a new game which they're badly behind on code with due to the platform switch, which they want to actually begin shipping units of to non-test / location customers.

I trust them to finish it properly. But if there's a chorus of people complaining, they'll just be more tempted to rush a bodge out to quell the whining.

Like what, all I can see are a few bug fixes? Personally I'm fine with were the code is it. It doesn't seem to matter how deep coders go, there are always going to be people that want more.

The code has a lot going on for it I agree. But some of those bugs are annoying as all hell.

At times when you start LDG and drain a single ball with ball save lit the game doesn’t return that ball. It will keep you in the mode until ball save runs out and the mode ends.

Sometimes on a new ball the display will be blank for awhile after the ball is plunged. It’s infrequent but happens and just annoys the hell out of me everytime.

Charlie has already spoke about how difficult h1kc corpses is and redoing how that mode plays out and adding some more flare to it.

Infected could be a cool feature but the way it was implemented makes no sense. Therefore I just leave it off.

I think the jackpot animations could be changed. When I hit a jackpot I like to look up to see the value, but I rarely get to see it. The animation that reads “jackpot” is lengthy and the value is displayed after that. By the time it’s displayed I have to get back to watching the ball as it’s screaming around the playfield. Maybe incorporating the jackpot value into that animation is a solution for that.

I think some of the animations are pretty good but a couple could use some updates. Like the lightning round when it’s activated and cashed out. They seem a bit boring.

Due to how difficult this game is co-op could be a cool feature. Worked well with TNA so why not with this game?

Of course any new features are appreciated! I mean they now have Bowen onboard so im sure he may have a couple ideas that would be cool.

My biggest gripe that I know won’t be addressed by Spooky is the display. The theme of this game is AWESOME! Good music, awesome art, crazy fast in your face gameplay, but that damn display lets it down. I know the history of it so no use anyone writing how it was added at no cost. I get it and appreciate it but there is a lot of potential that’s not being used. Without a mod I know the boardset doesn’t have anymore horsepower to run such graphics. I also get the time involved in re-doing the graphics. I just hope one day that someone take this on as a passion project. Looking at the badass display of ACNC makes me wish spooky had switch to PROC for RZ and could have done something like that for RZ.

The game is good and I really do like it. I’m just ready for that final polish to be placed on it. I get that they are busy. I just don’t see them getting any less busy as time goes on. Therefore I feel like it’s just time to take the time now while ACNC is in its earliest stage of getting to homeowners to finish off RZ.

^^Agree with everything you said - Co-Op mode should be Spooky's "Thing" since no other machine does it.

It’s difficult because in the last few versions of the code, the blue multiplier targets don’t multiply corpse numbers.

When they work, getting 1000 corpses is pretty easy. Without them, it’s impossible.

Fawzma knows they don’t work and are down to be fixed in the next update.

rd

Not positive, but I think this is a P-ROC thing. The P3 games have this feature, and then TNA incorporated because it uses the same boards. I don't think the boards in RZ can do this, but I could be wrong.

I didnt realize p3 had it. That’s cool.

Will RZ code ever be completed? Will known bugs get squashed? Will enhancements promised by Charlie even occur? This kid was born after the game was released in 2016. What will occur first ... new code drops or the kid gets into college? Excuses have been tolerated for too long. Where’s my complete RZ code Spooky?

C4791EE8-5618-47E1-948D-3E765253A054 (resized).jpeg

The more you complain, the more you risk getting something you don't want.

Stern abandon code for years, having barely touched it after release. Then, frequently, when they finally issue an update, it's a slap in the face - WWE / ST etc.

People were crying incessantly about Hobbit, then got a complete game changer once Ted had the time for it .... imagine if they'd caved to the whinging, put out a couple of bug fixes much sooner and called it quits.

Fawzma is one guy, and rightly he's full time on ACNC at the moment. Spooky have nobody else. Scott's doing his own games (and sound effects for ACNC), and despite what people seem to think, Bowen is not a coder.

Everyone knows they're behind because of the switch from PinHeck to P3ROC. Just be patient.

"Good things come to those who wait."

I’ve been waiting for good things. **warning - long winded post**

RZ is fun but it is maybe 92% complete. That last little bit will make a big impact. Notice I am not crying to get the final code, 1 day after the game came out, I’ve waited. Charlie has twice promised the code would be fixed and enhancements would be done, and I believe him, but he didn’t give a timeframe. If he announced a date to make this happen (say Dec 31, 2018) we could cut them slack and let them get things done. But they seem to be operating without a strategy, always running around and putting out fires, which is not efficient or sustainable. It tends to piss off the customer base which have been buying multiple Spooky titles.

I waited six months and it was a breeze. Then I waited a year with no problem. At one and a half years I cleared my throat. Two years in I began to grumble. It is now 2.5 years and I’ve reached the end of the line. We know ACNC is in the hopper, and once released, Spooky’s next game will be here. All hands on deck to get that one working and to polish ACNC. I’ve heard Jetsons is expected to get some meat added, which is great news for the owners, when it happens. Until then it is a promise. You see where this is going? Spooky has become like Stern was - release a game, allow 2-5 years to pass, while customers dream and hope the programming will be completed. Some titles were, some were not.

There is never a good time. As a general rule there should be a maximum timeframe established, say one year. If the timeframe passes, everything else should be dropped until the code done. That is purposely exaggerated because it is only the programmers that are needed for this effort with some part-time brainstorming and support from others. The other 15 employees of Spooky can stay on course doing whatever they do. Status of Spooky Games -

1) AMH - done
2) Dominos- done
——————-
3) Jetsons - not done
4) RZ - not done
5) TNA - in production, code is done but somehow continues to get better
6) ACNC - in pre-production and code is being programmed now
7) Scott’s next title - in development
8) Charlie’s next title - in development

How about it Spooky? Oct and Nov should be full bore ACNC, then dedicate the month of December to completing RZ and Jetsons. Give us a Christmas present by releasing a power pack (major code dump to polish a game off). That is three months away, my home was built and I moved in three months later. The beauty of this arrangement is that Spooky benefits just as much from completing the code. Their games are improved and their reputation for building awesome boutique games solidified.

Spooky has found excellent themes, created imaginative games, built them and shipped them - currently producing game #6, they haven proven to be a real pinball company. Some people have a short attention span when buying pinball machines. Heck, what percentage of people own a particular game 2.5 years later instead of trading it away for something else (maybe 50%??). We are at that point now with RZ, so I am venting my displeasure with how this process has dragged out and am suggesting Spooky do a reset to refocus their efforts to complete their earlier pins and move them into their archives.

btw - I hope Spooky has been setting aside one of every pinball machine they’ve produced. It would nice to house the growing collection at their factory, where staff and visitors could play them. But if space was an issue, they could create a Spooky Pinball Museum in the Chamber of Commerce building (hint, hint). City provides the air conditioned space, Spooky provides the games and maintains them. Spooky provides signage and information and the city gets to showcase a business success story.

I think Jeff is spot on in his explanation.

A month on RZ (it doesn't need THAT much time), and worse Jetsons, whilst ACNC will still be early? You're dreaming.

They do that and they hold up the rest of the team doing audio, animations, graphics. Plus Bowen is also left to twiddle his thumbs.

It makes absolutely no sense.

It would be really nice if they had a second full time coder, but they don't, and I'm dubious that they'll get one who would work on the old PinHeck system games anyway, as it'd be a waste of time learning the old system.

I hope it can be done in a few weeks time, but if takes longer and has to be tested, I suggested a month. Maybe it is more complicated than it appears, but if it is truely minimal, why not JUST DO IT I procrastinate cleaning out my garage. But that is a chore to do in my spare time, this is business.

Yeah Spooky needs to add another programmer. Spooky (Nor Stern nor JJP) knew how involved and labor intensive coding would become, but that is the reality. Stern reacted by ratching up resources this past year. JJP has added people and have a great mix of coders, and could probably grow more staff. American Pinball is off to a strong start with near complete code on Houdini and have recently added a seasoned programmer to handle their next game. They should probably be looking to add more staff to handle lcd and another coder. Spooky is past due for another coder and probably need two.

Because you hold up the rest of the team, and give customers of new machines a less favourable impression. You also rush yourself to 'finish' a game that deserves some time when there's a lull.

It makes no sense for either their customers or from a business standpoint.

So in the past 2.5 years there have been no lulls. Going forward when do you expect the next lull? This small company came off the blocks sprinting and has probably picked up the pace since. They need to hire one more senior and one apprentice coder imo.

Historians will note that beginning 2015, electronic technology and software operating systems had advanced far enough and they converged, seeding an explosion in the number of pinball designers & manufacturers. These emerging companies brought new theming ideas and artistic techniques.

The need for programming and graphic design talent to produce a pinball game grew exponentially. None of the manufacturers were prepared for this, which often meant games were shipped before software was 100% complete to keep the production line moving. Shipping games before code was fully baked or hardware properly tested had become the norm.

With the advent of the lcd screen and the sophistication of software interface, it became the amount of coding required and caliber of talent available that became the biggest bottleneck to building pinballs.

I beg to differ. The current state of RZ code is the single biggest factor in why I do not have a deposit down on ACNC. I'm a big fan of all things Spooky, and have been in on the Rob Zombie ride from the beginning; however, the most recent software releases introduced debilitating software bugs. The worst for me is the well documented ball loader bug. I have to open the coin door and clear a ball jam on at least half of the games played. That's a pretty big deal, but I guess maybe I'm just "whining."

BTW, do you even own a RZ?

If I remember correctly Charlie had said in a previous post they do have a second coder in training so I think they are trying to get things moving along quicker.

Being that they aren’t shipping many ACNC’s at this point now would be a great time to just finish off RZ.

Better to get another game finalized for good then kick this can down the road until you have two groups of owners clamoring for code updates.

What version code are you running? I was getting double ball ejects, but that went away with the latest code update.

I think the infected mode being on when you fail a mode is really fun. It gets intense trying to hit the one or two targets before the timer counts down and the flippers die.

This notion that pinball companies should be given a break for allowing a product to lag in functionality for years is utterly ridiculous.

Can you imagine if a video game was released like that - noticeably incomplete or bugs galore? Or a car?

“How’s your new car?”

“It’s pretty good, accept when I engage the right turn signal, the left signal comes on. Bluetooth doesn’t work yet. And sometimes it shuts off when I hit 65mph.”

“That sucks.”

“It’s okay. They’re working on another model right now. When they release that model next year, then they’ll come back and start to fix those problems.”

The environment that allows this silliness to exist is: (1) home collectors are crazy and impulsive. We’ve seen time and time again that the community as a whole will throw money at anything with a general disregard in completeness at launch, and (2) 99% of people that play pinball on location (a) have no idea that pinball machine have rules and (b) don’t care. And frankly, current pinball companies do zero to rectify OR encourage a change to #2.

I’ll say this: if initial sales were driven by completeness, you’d be wise to bet that Spooky would have busted its ass to get a near complete out the door with frequent software updates to address functionality issues. But, hey, this is pinball. Drop $6 or $7k on pin and wait years for the game to be complete.

None of you are listening still.

Because you want something, that does not make it so.

They have limited resources. That's a fact. They would be mad to divert attention from ACNC to Rob Zombie, and much less Jetsons at this moment.

Of course it would be better if they had more coders. But they don't.

You're also pretending that RZ hasn't been updated, when it's had a mass of updates since its release. I've no particular desire to play mine until stuff gets fixed / added, but screeching that it has to be done NOW won't help anybody, especially when it would be commercial suicide. They're really behind on ACNC and need to catch up.

That might be the case. But you’re not listening either.

It’s a dumb business model that only this crazy collecting community allows to exist.

Can you imagine spooky walking into a random bar and saying: buy this for $6,000. We’ll give you relatively complete code a year or so after you receive it. And if any bugs arise, we’ll take care of it at some point. Could be another year again.

It’s flawed and ridiculous. Name another multi-thousand dollar product that ships incomplete with a non-determined finish date. Oh - and if sales suck, that finish date may never happen.

and thats the truth!

I am running v22, the latest official release. I have had some mixed luck running previous betas, so have been a little reluctant to install v23b. I have not heard that it directly addresses the ball load issue, but perhaps I should take a closer look at it.

It does fix the ball load issue. No problems since install.

In addition to gameplay bugs and fixes there's just silly stuff that needs to be fixed, like the fact that you can no longer disable the smallest score since the latest update, so every first game of the day you have to enter your initials unless you get a high score (and then you would also have to enter your initials but that wouldn't bother me, lol)

V23 - default is No smallest score of the day.

Ball load issues gone also.

You’re right they are behind. However I’m guessing the contractual agreements with the license timelines only pertain to having all 500 machines built. Per your thought process code can be completed whenever it’s convenient. Right?

Im not trashing Charlie or Spooky in anyway. I think they are trying like hell to do the best they can. I just don’t think holding out for this final code update to RZ is going to sink the business or throw them into a deeper hole. With the current operation there will never be a time where they aren’t behind the curve. It’s just time to get this completed and put it in the rearview.

It's nothing to do with the license or contracts. It's getting their customers a decently playable and fun game in a reasonable time frame.

ACNC is miles behind RZ, or was when we last saw it. It may be better system wise (some of the things most needed for RZ), but that would be because of the change in software framework ... also due to the change in software framework and hardware, game code is obviously months behind where they wanted it to be.

BM'66, GotG and now Deadpool got absolutely shit on for shipping with either non-existent or basic code.

The former recovered somewhat, I don't think sales ever really did with GotG, and word on the street is Deadpool isn't selling too well ... most likely explanation being the very obviously basic code. Maiden ships with very good code ... apparently selling brilliantly.

For initial release the code is decent. The time is now to finish off RZ

Thanks for the confirmation. I'm downloading the v23 beta now. What do you have that coil power set at if you don't mind my asking?

Where did you get the V23 beta?

Fawzma's site. The URL is not public, but I bet he will give you a link if you PM him.

Maybe I am running a different V23 beta? There is no way to disable smallest score.

It's quite obvious to me where Spooky's priorities lie. I don't like it, but it has affected my buying decisions going forward with Spooky. No sense for me to buy their next game when my current game is unfinished. Those of you defending this practice will be bitching in two years when your AC is unfinished while Spooky is on to their next title. It's a vicious cycle and a poor way to do business IMO.

It hasn't been too long since July when this was posted and I do believe Charlie when he says something, I just wish I had an idea of when it will be done.

Gentlemen a solution ....

1) Spooky needs more programmers.

2) Spooky could bring someone on via a consulting basis and assign them to fix RZ code and then to beef up Jetsons. This frees up 100% of current staff to stay on ACNC.

3) Person needs to be a seasoned pinball software programmer who can take the ball and run. They’d need to know Ben Heck board language and be able to interpret existing code and reconcile with bugs list. And be versed in testing the game using high quality assurance standards.

4) Not many people fit these requirements. Oh wait, there was a guy, real good guy who designed a Pinball game. His name was .... Ben Heck.

5) Wonder if Ben would take on this assignment to help out Spooky? And whether Spooky was serious about wanting to complete current log jam on coding? Ben would get a nice gig that he could do from home in front of a game on his own schedule. Spooky pays a little bit to get done, what needs to be done. Customers get completed code. Win / Win / Win

I doubt you’ll see Ben coming in to lend a hand on this. I think he’s a bit burnt out on pinball at the moment. That and from interviews I’ve heard that he wasn’t excited about the RZ theme. So unless they could somehow offer him a boatload of cash I don’t see him taking it on

Hey! You just explained the Stern code cycle. And all the other manufacturers.

Although Stern seems to improved lately, with their extra resources. I consider Aerosmith now finished - that took 2 years. GB and KISS guys are still waiting, 3 years on.

The way I look at the Spooky situation - they have to get as much done on ACNC at launch, which is what they’re doing now.

After that, there is a huge wait until the next title. They’ll be making TnA and ACNC for 18 months. I presume the next title will be Scott Danesi’s second game, which presumably he will do the bulk of the coding for. That creates lots of spare time for Fawzma to do RZ and Jetsons updates he moves into the next Charlie game.

That all make sense? Sounds plausible to me.

rd

Yes and no....your assumption doesn't take into account that as ACNC rolls into buyers hands there will be considerable bug fixes just like RZ had. The difference from AMH to RZ was Heck was allowed to finish AMH while Fawzma worked on RZ. But now the same guy is working on both, and other than Charlies post 3 months ago about a new programmer in training, I've heard nothing else about the development of a 2nd guy. Then there's the whole handoff inefficiency...do we want someone else trying to finish the RZ code or for continuity sake do we want Fawzma.

No, in my opinion Spooky dropped the ball. Maybe they didn't anticipate Heck's departure. But to me, they should have two seasoned programmers alternating titles. Not one guy who gets pulled in multiple directions. I've been that programmer before and it leads to extreme inefficiency having to pick up where you left off months or years later.