I totally agree I would have to sell either STLE or METLE neither of which will happen for anything less than an amazing machine I have played or at least seen. I don't do the preorder BS or NIB for the most part either I just don't have money to throw away on "open the box depreciation" like some folks but I think all sales should be open and on a first come first served basis for any item not a "hey you're in the club, are you in" basis. I thought more highly of spooky previous to hearing that's how things on this game are being handled as far as preorders. What's next? an elitist preorder club that is entitled to first chance to buy and jack the price up for their own profit after the fact?

The first customers helped launch the company. There's 150 plus 150 potential new customers. I highly doubt this sells out asap. My thoughts are spooky gets 200 pre orders and has to show the game to sell another 100. Does anyone remember how hard and how long it took to sell 150 AMH?

I do agree that the LE run is too small and Chuck may want to think about making 100 special editions and 250 regular editions.

Should be 200 LE and 300 standards.....

They are drastically underestimating the potential of this pin. A run of 300 is way too low, given both artists..........If they can nail the flow and rules, this pin will walk among the top 20.

If he wants me to consider one, he'll totally have to redesign the playfield layout. When I played it (ZFBTG) at Allentown 2 years ago, I stopped playing after a couple of shots realizing that it was a total turd not exciting at all to me. The sots were boring and the flow was lacking. I'm glad to hear that he listened to our feedback and pulled this game from production. I think it may have killed the company before they finished getting AMH out the door. Without seeing the layout and art package, I'm going to wait and see one before making any decision on a purchase through Spooky...especially after my Hobbit experience.

I'm happy for Spooky and I wish them success. I can't say I'm a Rob Zombie fan, but he's doing okay without me.

I don't really care for the LE concept, despite owning a few myself. I much prefer the WOZ version of LE over the Stern version. It sounds like Spooky is going that way.

Why not just offer "limited" alternate backglasses as aftermarket upgrades? Opinions are like...

I'm looking forward to seeing a playfield or something specific.

The reason for 300 as explained by Spooky is that's the licensing agreement and it has a 3 year expiration. At their current manufacturing capacity, they're only able to reasonably accomplish 100 games a year. They are 'hoping' to ramp that up, but are being cautious as they don't want to promise what they can't ALREADY deliver. They are avoiding the Skit-B/Jpop model of making promises they can't currently keep.

I understand Spooky's need to control their growth. Better to play it safe than have everything blow up in their face with the first game that under performs.

Having said that, I wonder if there's a better way to manage this than an arbitrary "300" number. What that is going to do is create pressure on pre-order sales, which is good for instant sales, but do they really want to sell games sight unseen?

Maybe there's a solution here with the 3 year license. Basically announce batches of 50 to 100 machines. Squeeze in as many batches as the license window will allow. Don't have a fixed number, but leave some wiggle room.

Obviously they are working with another fixed number which is the # of machines per week they can produce. I also understand the sense in keeping that number fixed, keeping your staff trained and employed, and be able to navigate bumps in the road down the road if/when sales are soft. I wonder if the solution might be to be in a larger facility, with spare room, and that spare room could be used to hire temp workers to do straight forward tasks. And the core team does the builds still, but with some of the weight lifted for them. And if things slow down, the core team remains and the temp workers are not brought in.

Just spit balling ideas here, as a "business guy"... I just want the best for Spooky.

I highly doubt, they are going to rework Charlies zombie pin. Charlies knows that design was dead in the water. I'm sure he's got a team redesigning the game. The game needs to be higher quality of design better than AMH. AMH was awesome, but he knows he has the attention of a super star who does everything off the chart. Game needs flow, high speed and 2 to 3 ramps. All Zombies music is high octane in your face gonna run you over, music. Lets just say it can't just have gruesome artwork. This games is going to flip like a mothef#$÷=r, As Zombie would put it.

This Rob Zombie guy... He's famous?

I want to thx spooky for doing it right. I going get one but I'm patient and all negative post should stop until we see the game. I think there doing it right to give amh 1st crack as if it was not for them spooky would not be like it is now.

Why cap it at 300? Seems like putting a fixed number on it may just be to pressure people to preorder. I would love a R Zombie pin fwiw

They can always negotiate a new license to build more if this thing sells like hotcakes.

Don't act like everything is so final.

Its a small shop and they know the numbers they're capable of building during the timeframe. Its smart not to overpromise.
The theme is great. I like Rob Zombie (not a huge fan) and that style art and music will work so well together.

I'm a Spooky distributor and I have had Soooky's products (AMH) at Allentown the last two years. PZFBTG was never at Allentown so you played something else you hated. Hopefully it wasn't in my booth - lol. : )

For those who seem to be unfamiliar with Rob Zombie, here is a snip for Wikipedia. I'm most familiar with him from listening to La Sexorcisto about 74,000 times and also from House of 1000 Corpses.

"Rob Zombie[1] (born Robert Bartleh Cummings;[2] January 12, 1965) is an American musician, film director, screenwriter and film producer. He rose to prominence as a founding member of the band White Zombie which formed in the mid-1980s and rose to fame in the early 1990s. As a solo artist, he has released five studio albums, three compilation albums, two remix albums, two live albums, a video album, and 15 singles. In 2003 he expanded his career and became a film director, and has directed a total of six films, the majority of which he also wrote or co-wrote. He has also released numerous brands of comic books, and appeared as an actor on numerous occasions.

White Zombie's debut album, Soul-Crusher, was released in 1987 and was followed by their second album Make Them Die Slowly in 1989. They rose to prominence after the success of their third album, La Sexorcisto: Devil Music, Vol. 1, and its lead single "Thunder Kiss '65" in 1993. The album went on to be certified multi-platinum by the RIAA, for sales exceeding two million copies in the US. Their fourth and final studio album, Astro-Creep: 2000, became their first top-10 entry on the Billboard 200, and their second album to reach multi-platinum status.

Zombie began his solo career with the release of his 1998 debut album Hellbilly Deluxe. The album was both a critical and commercial success, spawning three hit singles, reaching the Top 5 of the Billboard 200, and selling over three million copies worldwide. Hellbilly is Zombie's highest selling album to date. He followed the success of the album with The Sinister Urge in 2001, which had similar success to that of its predecessor. Zombie's first greatest hits album, Past, Present & Future, was released in 2003, and reached Platinum status by the RIAA. His third studio album, Educated Horses, was released in 2006, and was his third Top 10 entry on the Billboard 200. In 2010, he released his fourth studio album Hellbilly Deluxe 2, which is a sequel to Hellbilly Deluxe. His fifth album, Venomous Rat Regeneration Vendor, was released on April 23, 2013.

Following his success as a musician, Zombie began directing, writing and producing films. His first film, House of 1000 Corpses, was completed in 2000, but numerous struggles with the distributor led to the film's release being delayed until 2003. Its sequel, The Devil's Rejects was released in 2005. In 2007, he released his third film, a remake of the 1978 classic film Halloween. The film went on to gross over $80 million, the highest-grossing film in the Halloween franchise. In 2009, Zombie released a sequel for the film, titled Halloween II. In 2009, Zombie released his first animated film, The Haunted World of El Superbeasto, based on his comic book series of the same name. His film The Lords of Salem was released in 2013. Zombie bought the rights to a film about the NHL team Philadelphia Flyers, titled The Broad Street Bullies, though no release date for the film has been announced yet.

Zombie directed the majority of White Zombie's music videos, as well as numerous videos for his solo work. Zombie's lyrics are noted for their horror and sci-fi themes, and his live shows for their elaborate shock rock theatricality.[3] He has sold over 15 million albums worldwide, and had six Top 20 hits on the Billboard Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks chart in the United States.[4]"

There's photos of the original playfield, video & other info about the pin here

http://www.publicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=10&p=115

That seems like way too many games for a company still so young in their cycle. I hope they stick with the under-promising and over-delivering model and don't flip it or else they could be in trouble later and I really want these guys around for the long haul!

My wife has informed me that we will be in for this. She said she'll even fork over the deposit!

ummm.... could your wife call my wife today

Absolutely amazing that in light of recent events, people are ready to throw money at a game that they haven't even seen yet. No Playfield design or art has been shown! That's Jpop logic all over again, and I'm surprised Spooky announced it in this vague way.

On one hand it's Charlie, we know he's a stand up guy and can build games. However, AMH was Ben's design/programming. This one isn't. We have no idea what it's going to be until theres a proper reveal. Until that point, slow down guys ....

I was totally expecting we'd see a reveal of the game at the announcement. Hope it's coming soon before I have to commit...

You're making assumptions not in evidence....Charlie just posted in the other thread. They are not taking money currently...they're opposed to the preorder model as much as the rest of us. At some point they will require a 1000 down payment but from what I'm reading that'll be after a game is complete.

I think what he means is leave an LE for me

In addition to only having 3 years to build these there may be another reason for a run of only 300. Here's why:

I'm a custom home builder and when I build a custom home, based on my own design, the initial stages are the most fun. The dreaming and design are the best part of the project followed by the completion of the project and the money at the end. Everything else in between is hard, hard work. By the time I get to the end of the project I am somewhat sick of it and I can't wait to start my latest custom project. Now the excitement starts all over again and my motivation is renewed.

Maybe Spooky also needs some renewed excitement and motivation and they too look forward to getting onto something new. I tell you it can be torture getting stuck on a custom project for years. I personally get a little squirrely when my custom homes run over 18 months so a 3 year build would make me crazy.

I think 300 machines is plenty and if the 50 LE's go to AMH owners then awesome. They jumped in and supported Spooky so they deserve a little extra bonus for that. Well done Spooky.

QSS

For reference, here's Charlie's recent post from the other thread:

"Typing on my phone with bad internet connection here... Still working the Denver show.

Again, NOT taking money on this in advance. When we do, it will be a $1,000 deposit down and NOTHING more until your game is done. I wish we could be mini Stern and just sell you a game... Very hard at this level, but we'll keep working towards that goal.

Hoping to have all AMH's out by January 1st, then switch to Rob Zombie immediately. We all know that rarely goes as planned but we'll do our best to stay on track.

The 50 LE's will be offered to AMH customers as a thank you... Many are already claimed. What's left will go to those on the interested email list in order received... Which is long at this point. You won't see anything more on the game until the art & playfield are fully assembled with all the bells, toys, and goodues, and close to production quality. We can't handle building more than 300 units at this time... Thats just being honest. Our contract (I hear those are really important) clearly states this number, and we WILL NOT make more. Same as AMH.

Alex Horley is a crazy talented artist... Rob insisted on him, and I'm still shocked we have access to his talents! Check his stuff out... Its pretty incredible.

The playfield has undergone changes for sure. I want it to be more "random chaos" than a typical fan-layout game, but yep, Aurich and Ben (and many of you) were right... It needed more flow and more toy interaction. It also needed to lose the physical ball lock, get a bigger trough (6 ball House of 1,000 Corpses multiball, 7 ball wizard mode anyone?!) and auto launcher to keep the action going... We did all that and more. I hope you like it, I fully understand that not all of you will. It's pinball... If w all agreed PS would be boring as hell!
Thanks everyone... We're doing our best here and making lots of improvemnts across the board (total pun intended) both in our games and with our company. With all that has happened this year in pinball, we just want to show this absolutely can and is working. I'm a nervous guy by nature... We've put everything we possibly can into Spooky Pinball, and words dont even begin to cover how grateful we are to be here.

Gotta head back down to the booth and get back to work.

Sincerely, thank you all.
Charlie Emery"

Source:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-spooky-pinballs-next-game/page/17#post-2512060

Seems like they're trying to design a rather deep game around a playfield that looked like it played more like Black Hole than Lord of the Rings... not sure how that's going to go over. I know it's been dicked with, but still...if you're going for more random action, a bunch of modes and a wizard mode might be REAL tough for anyone but the most dedicated players to get to. AMH is already super-hard IMO thanks to the wide open outlanes and super strong kickers...the pops in the video of the earlier playfield design were also ridiculously strong and super fast... looks like this game is going to be out for blood. 6/7 ball multiball with wide open pop nest like that is going to be absurd....

Theme and art package seem intruiging, but I'm holding my wallet until I see the layout and final design. I hope it's another success for Team Spooky!

I posted this on facepage and a local concert promoter with 2 venues already posted that we need one in town, haha, it's a hit!

< Highly interested in this pin. The theme has a ton of potential. Hopefully I can get a slot before they're all spoken for. I'm in the camp that believes they will sell out quickly.

I love that Warcraft style art. I really like RZs music, particularly the ones selected. I am sure this will be a great looking and sounding pin. I just hope it is a great player too. I wish I had the funds to pre-order one and take that chance.
Catch 22 is, if its not fun, then you will have no problem buying one. If it is fun, you won't, unless you want to pay an excessive amount.

I so agree. I really wish Stern was doing the Rob Zombie theme, so at least I might have a chance of getting one.

I can't believe people are crying thst AMH owners get first crack. It's called rewarding your early adopters guys. A great move. Also they need to set a pin limit to drive sales otherwise everyone would just wait. Spooky knows what they are doing and they deliver. Don't change a thing guys.

Also I think they know at their size they will need 2 years to make 300 pins. So by the time they are done they can get game 3 going. They don't want to just make one pin for years and years. It's a good move.

It's like everyone forgot how hard it was to sell AMH for Spooky and that was with it done at ship time. Those who supported the company from the start get first crack I think that's fair. No idea yet if I'll be in for one like many need to see more first. Good thing is if anyone has actually paid attention Spooky isn't taking money, they have said the gane is re-designed, and currently none of us know anything so get some patience sit back and wait. If it interests you email Spooky their communication is great and let them know. If you know an AMH owner and they aren't in ask if they can order for you. Mostly just calm down and enjoy pinball and be happy we have three companies shipping games.

sheesh... i don't know if I want this pin more or Aliens. uhhhhgggg... 1st world problemo

stop the stupid crying let's all just be happy and play pinball

Actually that's exactly what they are doing. Charlie and I had talked very early on in this project's development about me maybe being involved, and honestly it was that game's layout and philosophy that stopped us going further together, I just wasn't feeling it.

Since then Charlie has realized that the game really did need to be reworked, and while I haven't seen the new version I know about a lot of the changes, and it sounds like they're really trying to address the problems. More flow, less of an "old school" feel.

Can't wait to see how the whole thing comes together.

I don't like when "old school" is used as an excuse for 2nd rate. Same thing was said about Predator by skit-b.

Spooky can work within the limits of their platform and abilities, but I'm sure they can still come up with a compelling game by 2015 standards.

It was really true in this case though. Was going to be alphanumeric displays. Physical ball locks. No auto launcher. Not ramp heavy. More random action. Simpler rules.

It's evolved since then. But I think old school was accurate.

Kinda excited. looking forward to see the whole package at some point

Rob Zombie seems to be over the top in all his endeavors from music to movies...even his appearances on shows like Counts Kustoms he is a force. I think it's a good thing to be a part of this license as I imagine with his name tied to it he's going to drive spooky to over achieve and go over the top. Not that spooky wasn't capable of doing that anyway, but with zombie involved I see extra incentive. And Robs a pinball guy so he understands what's good and what isn't.

Me too. It looked like a throwback to Black Hole minus the lower playfield.

Rob Zombie 'fantasy art' style is a great theme idea. Horror themed pins rock IMHO.

The groove metal music is very approachable for most rock music fans.

Just can't wrap my brain around a limited production run - sure it drives hype, and should increases demand, and potential resale value if it's a hit, but those things don't impress me.

Wow, does anyone read? Over and over people ask "Why 300"? Over and over people answer "3 years limited license and production run time that can be produced". Within a few post someone else will say "why 300".

Thank you

so you're saying there's a chance for more than 300 ?

That remains to be seen...what's been said by Charlie is that they negotiated a license of 300 units that expires in 3 years. They don't have carte Blanche to produce as many as they want or we want. Based on current production capability they felt 300 units in 3 years was realistic. They haven't yet produced 150 amh so I for one appreciate their conservatism.

My bad. Was there a similar reason why AMH was limited?

First game and they don't have the production capacity to produce multiple games concurrently...and I'm sure they wanted to strike while the iron was hot so to speak on a licensed pin. Also don't forget it took awhile even at 150 for amh to sell out. So it was time to move on. These are just my opinions based on what I've read and have no inside knowledge.