Progress is being made!! Getting more and more modes added in.

Probably been said but I'm surprised by the 300 limit. Seems like a game they could really make a profit in if done right. I could see them selling double that.

I am in for now

You can still make a profit at this price. Sure they could have sold more but taking a conservative approach helps them grow their business and stay around for the long haul. The more they grow and figure out what works best, future games would probably have larger production. And still if your doing it all yourself, you need to train your employees to your standards.

Slow and steady wins the race in my opinion.

To me, this is another great example of why Spooky Pinball is great - they talk to us and we get updates. Now, of course, no good deed goes unpunished...so...can you give us some general info on the intended depth of the code? I am sure I am like most buyers in that I really like the idea of deep code with multiple wizards modes and different scoring strategies for my home games. Is it wrong to get excited by a game based upon the number of inserts on its playfield? Call me a masochist, but I love the challenge of a looming wizard mode that I may never see, as long as there are mini wizard modes and other mid-way awards for "good-but-not-great" play. Anyway, care to share general programming ideas/modes/goals etc with us?

I could see them selling triple that. But the catch is they can't actually *build* triple that.

Remember, Spooky is a small operation, not Stern. They aren't pumping out 30 games a week. They need to keep their build numbers realistic. Inevitably someone will want this and not be able to get it. That's just how it goes, if it's a dream theme then get on the list now, instead of waiting.

One of the best things about Spooky pinball is that it is a small family owned business, and they really care about their customers and their products; whenever I go over to my buddy's house who has 30 plus games I am always on his AMH; just a fun and cool game.

And simple things like the Do or Die countdown 35 million jackpot in Iron Man just make games addictive. Hint, hint

Unfortunately, I can't say anything about what going into the game.; not till its first shown. I'll tell you this though, damn.. probably can't even do that. Anyway, your concerns are well received.

Please send me an Iron Man for investigation

I felt the art, theme and sounds on AMH left something to be desired. This pin is sure to improve on all of the above.

Sorry Chuck, just added another idea to the doc, if you like it.. you've got your work cut out for you lol

If you guys can nail the layout and the code, this is going to be something special.

Yup! I do the same thing when I buy live concert DVD's. If I put in my Led Zeppelin concert, and they don't play "Four Sticks", I turn that stuff on mute and watch the band drum along to it streaming on Spotify!!! It's my house, i'll do whut i wunt!

I still see no good reason for limiting to 300 games. There have been three possible reasons presented for this:

1. They can't build more than 300.

This is just false. If they can't build more than 300 per year, or 10 per month, or whatever, given enough time they can build more than 300. They could instead say: "We're planning to build 300 initially and only if there is enough demand in the future we will try to accommodate it." In other words it would be nice to leave the door open if one of their games becomes a major hit. A great title will do little to help the pinball scene if it isn't available in quantity.

2. They do this as means to get buyers locked in as soon as possible and justify going forward.

If they need the $300k deposit money to design and build the game, it's understandable. However that money could have come from selling more AMH's, but that too was limited and is sold out. So, again, it's pre-order buyers on the hook for funding the design of a game they have yet to see or play. If the game turns out to be great, there will be tons of unmet demand. If it's a dud, the pre-order buyers are left holding the bag.

3. They just want to do a small run of games and move onto the next title.

IMO, out of the 3 options this is the only plausible one. This would be an enthusiast decision rather than a business decision; a desire to build small runs of exclusive titles for a handful of collectors. It is what JPop was trying to do as well, but I was never a fan of that approach either. In Spooky's defense, at least each of AMH and SSI are being made in quantities greater than all of JPop's games combined, a minor improvement, but it's still half of a single Stern LE run, which rarely meets demand if a game turns out to be a great one.

But, I suppose there doesn't have to be a good reason, It's Spooky perogative to do what they want. Everything about the game sounds great, but as I won't be a pre-order buyer on principal, all games will likely be spoken for before I get to try it. It's a really awkward sales strategy for customers that all manufacturers continue to participate in.

Spooky knows how fast they can make games. Licenses are set to a certain amount of time. 300 games is how many they can safely say they can make in that amount of time.

Spooky isn't making promises they're not sure they can keep. One can't complain about other boutiques screwing the pooch, then wonder why Spooky is bring conservative with estimates.

It's 300 games, you can get on the list right now without putting down a dime, so if you don't end up with one it's really because you didn't want it badly enough to take a little initiative. Spooky isn't some giant company that can announce something and then have one you can buy off the shelf the next week. It is what it is.

They've proved they can ship actual games. Rob Zombie himself filmed a video to announce the pinball, there's no license questions. You only put up a fraction of the cash before your game is built. It's just the best case scenario for what is still a very small boutique operation. Nothing else to be done about it.

People will drop out, that's just the nature of this stuff. Hell it's one reason I think a $1000 deposit is smart, people are fickle that way when they have nothing on the line. You can probably get in later if you're lucky.

Baiter - Spooky has already explained in the thread why they are limiting to 300 and then it has been reiterated by others throughout the thread. Have you read the whole thread? Time on the license is limited and the clock is already clicking.

300 seems like a good number to me. It's twice that of AMH which shows good steady growth. Smart move to know your limitations. We've seen way too much over promising and under delivering lately.

I don't see why so many are all going on about only 300 made. Its simple if you think you want the game send a email to kt its that easy. Once you see the game then make it final or cancel it b4 you put down the $1000

I think buyers have to pony up $1000 once the art package is revealed, not once the pin is revealed. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you read his quote above he says $1000 down once you see the completed package (not just the art)

Whole game. No money down until you see what you're buying. As it should be!

I know nothing about purchasing a license. Why are licenses "timed?" I'm wondering if someone can someone elaborate on that. Seems like with a factory situation -- that that is quite the hinderance/constraint. If one wanted to extend the license to a longer term, does that mean more $$$ ? Is not something that can be extended later on?

-mof

Everything's different depending on who you're dealing with... but the reason you put a time limit on it is so you don't end up with people procrastinating (I.E., everybody in the pinball design business except Stern and Charlie, basically) and tying up your license for years.

So from Rob Zombie's perspective, if this is for 3 years, they're done after 3 years and if someone wants to make, for instance, a pinball ap game with his license he's free to sign a new deal with that person.

Of course you could probably extend it (unless there's another deal that prohibits it) but it wouldn't make good sense for Rob to just leave his contracts open ended like that, it would limit his possibilities down the road.

If he would have signed an open ended time commitment, like for instance, you have the license to make 1000 machines... a company could string that along and still be selling them brand new 15 years from now because they only built 20 a year. If 10 years from now Stern wants to work with Rob to do something, they're not going to want to do that if another company is still manufacturing games with his license. Etc.

Much better to make contracts as specific as possible, in about every way possible, so there's no misunderstandings, and no hard feelings when the contract plays out exactly how it's written.

BTW Rob Zombie's a pretty smart guy, and you're talking about a license so big he's made money in the music industry, the comic book industry, and even in Hollywood. Big time license here...

Yes, licenses are generally timed. There are different terms and details for each one, but here's how a license might look:

You approach say a movie studio, and say "hey, we make pinball machines, and we like your movie Chainsaw Hookers, and think it would make a great pin, let's talk". They're game.

The deal might be something like you pay an up front fee for the license, say $30k. That gets you in the door, and you can then work out the details of using their style guide and assets etc.

The license will be for a time period, say 2 years. During that time you can manufacture as many games as you want, paying a licensing fee on each one (in addition to the lump sum you paid). Once the license period is up you have to stop. At that point yes, you can negotiate extending the license. The terms of which will be up to the situation. If the game is selling well the studio might be happy to just extend it and keep getting those fees. They might ask for another $30k for another 2 years. They could say "that property no longer represents the brand, we don't wish to renew it". All depends.

Keep in mind that having the license for Chainsaw Hookers (they charge you an arm and a leg!) doesn't mean you have the rights to the actor likenesses and voice recordings. On an old film like that it won't be written into their contract, you're going to have to approach them separately to work out a deal. They're going to have restrictions about how they want to be portrayed. No hand drawings, only this single approved PR photo. Not next to this other actor they hate. No guns, the actor is anti-gun. Whatever.

You may not have the rights to the music either. Could be an entire different company you have to negotiate with.

It can get complicated.

Thanks for the reply, I did not think about license expiration because it was not a factor with AMH. In that I'll accept your limits are reasonable for what you are doing. I hope there is a way for future licensing to be unit based moreso than time based considering your limited production capacity.

Actually I'm usually good about reading an entire thread, but I'll admit in this case I didn't think I'd miss a lot in the 400 posts I skipped. In my defense I asked the question about production limits to Ben in another thread and no one, including Ben, brought up the license expiration issue.

Wait, are you saying there is no deposit due until game is available to play?

How can anyone have anything bad to say about spooky, the planned 300, the theme, anything? It's like some people need drama just to keep a thread going. This thread should be quiet now until we see some of that gorgeous art!

Good question. I guess it depends on where the final game is revealed. If it's at a show or party where you could play it that would be cool. Hopefully it's at Expo.

Also, my example was just a random movie off the top of my head, but you have to admit, this would make a great Spooky game!

Chainsaw Hookers!

you beat me at the reply lol but i 2nd what aurich said

I understand this view. But, why tell how many pins the limited run is, before you know how big the response and interest is?

Why dont keep that info for yourself? Then you always keep the option, after you have build the 300, and there is still demand, to look if anything is possible with the license. Why? Cause you sell more, is more money.

Now you closed that door.

Dont know, it could be an opportunity for you guys to do another run when a pin is really succesfull.

What good is the potential to sell more games if you can't make them before the license runs out? You just end up with people waiting forever to get games that a small company like Spooky can't deliver. I greatly prefer them to under promise and over deliver then the opposite which is what everyone else but stern is doing right now.

Did you even read my post?

They could renew a license after it has expired and after they build the 300. And do another run if there is demand.

Now they cant anymore. Yeah, they still can do it, but then many LE owners wont be happy.

If you just dont tell how big the limited run is, you dont have that issue. And you keep a nice option to keep your 'assembly line' running after the initial run has been done.

And this aint critism, just a genuine question to Ben, why would you not consider this?

Yes i read your post. The response doesn't mean anything if Spooky cannot deliver that amount of games. They seem to be interested in small controlled growth. I'm glad they are playing it safe and focusing on what they feel they can deliver rather then promising the world.

Jeeehhh... Promising what?

Forget about it. You can read but still have no clue sadly.

They're making 300. Don't like it? Life is full of things you can't control, might as well get used to it.

Remember, limiting a game also sells it.

It stays limited. Only you dont know yet if it will be 250 or 500. And you never know anyway before you make an announcement. Cause it works both ways.

If they plan to do 300, and the demand is not there. You have less then 300.

200 or 500. Does it make a differance? Dont think so. Only a few will not buy cause of a few more.

But then you keep your options open as a company. Dont think thats a bad thing.

There only making 300 period what does it matter anyway you can still can get one now if you want one...

Calm down.

This is not the last pin they will make. Just asking if this will be an option to consider in future pins.

I am almost 100% certain they already have had second thaughts about this, cause they did not expect this massive response. Well, this an option which you could use.

-

Sad to see these days on pinside you cant say or ask anything anymore without being attacked.

Two words. Reading Comprehension

300 is double the number of AMH's they sold. Thats a pretty ambitious goal from their side.

And given they are only capable of producing 100 machines per year, they wouldn't want to make a 500 limit and be tied to only producing Rob Zombie machines for the next 5 years. Companies need to be always introducing new products to stay relevant. They don't want to be known only as the Rob Zombie pinball manufacturer.

They are not tied to anything (extra). After the license expires, then you decide what to do, if possible.

What if the next pin has next to none demand?

Then the whole company is on hold. Would be nice if you had an option on the side to do another run of the previous pin, keep the line running before the next one is ready for manufacturing.

With this slow proces Spooky has to make a homerun every pin they make. And that is a very difficult task i am afraid.

I pay $29.95 a month for Internet. I am now entitled to tell everyone how to run their business even after they have made a statement and promise of exactly how things will be.

.

I am not telling anything, i am asking. Its just a normal question.

But forget about it, what a shitty site has this become with all those childish haters. You cant even have a simple normal convo.

Cause anything that moves is seen as hate or moaning and gets attacked with inmature comments by people that do nothing else but moan and attack other members.

Your enthusiasm is appreciated, but as you or I do not own a pinball company, these decisions are not ours to make. This site, just like people in real life, is filled with haters, optimists, realists, pessimists etc. you expressed your opinion and they expressed theirs..it's all wonderful, and not something we have control over.

So yay. Get on the list or don't. It's really Boolean.

-c

Put them (the shitty, childish, immature, haters,etc..)on ignore, man. Simple and it will probably lower your blood pressure.

And on a brighter note......The AMH dmd is a green xpin led dmd. Wonder if they're planing for a colour LCD for RZ?

indeed we need happy thoughts. i would think they make it red or white would work with that game.