(Topic ID: 282424)

RoadShow won't start a game

By Lhyrgoif

3 years ago


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  • 31 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Lhyrgoif
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#1 3 years ago

I just finished (or so I thought) a restoration of a newly bought RS. Powering up the game for the first time it goes into attract mode as it should. All PF lamps, flashers, coils and switches work in test. There is a credit dot but it's only because there were an issue with TED's eyes so I disabled TED in the software because I wanted to test the rest of the game by playing it a bit.

The game is factory reset, new batteries, and set to free-play. Running ROM L-6.

Start button blinks, but when I press it to start a game (in attract mode) nothing happens. The start button is sensed properly in switch edge test so I know it works, see pic. Tried to turn it off, wait then turn on and pressing start button directly but still nothing.
1 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg

I have four balls in the through and have verified that all of the optos work by dropping in the balls one at a time and verify that each opto (going from 1 to 4) changes from closed to open.

In the backbox, the three status LEDs seem to be correct; topmost is off, center blinks rapidly and lowest is lighted constantly.

Everything seems OK (except disabled TED but that's another issue) but it simply wont start a game. What should I try next?

Thanks

Edit: I haven't heard or seen Red do anything, but I guess attract mode isn't enough for her to move/talk so I need to start a game first ?

#2 3 years ago

That's a strange one.

I think I'd try changing to coin play. Put a credit on it. Then try it.

If nothing. Maybe a bad ribbon cable between CPU and driver board ?

LTG : )

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

That's a strange one.
I think I'd try changing to coin play. Put a credit on it. Then try it.
If nothing. Maybe a bad ribbon cable between CPU and driver board ?
LTG : )

There is no coin mech behind the door. There is no switch to activate behind the door either, so guess I can't try add credits manually.

Edit: I tried reseating all ribbon cables in the backbox, pretty sure I put them back exactly as they were. When I turned the power on all four flipper coils (and other coils too?) immediately activated with a "bang" so I turned it off immediately again. Re-checked ribbon cables and as far as I can see they are all correctly oriented but now I'm scared to turn the game on again

What to do...

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

There is no coin mech behind the door. There is no switch to activate behind the door either, so guess I can't try add credits manually.
Edit: I tried reseating all ribbon cables in the backbox, pretty sure I put them back exactly as they were. When I turned the power on all four flipper coils (and other coils too?) immediately activated with a "bang" so I turned it off immediately again. Re-checked ribbon cables and as far as I can see they are all correctly oriented but now I'm scared to turn the game on again
What to do...

As LTG said: a ribbon cable is suspicious.
Try another one.

#5 3 years ago

Be sure they are in the right spots. Red stripe pin one each end. And not off by a row.

LTG : )

#6 3 years ago

I triple-checked and all ribbon cables seem to be correctly seated, all have the purple stripe at the 1,2 numbering end. Only connector I can't find see any pinout on either the board or the manual is J201 on the CPU board. I'm pretty sure the purple stripe should be on the left side of the connector as the cables "memory" want it that way.

After checking the ribbon cables again I looked below the playfield for any loose cables but couldn't see any.

Decided to try again and turned on the power, this time flipper doesn't activate but the DMD display are just garbage dots and the two first status LEDs (D19, D20) on the CPU board is constantly off (which is wrong) while D21 lights up (5v ok). I can here one "bong" from the speakers as usual. Could this be a blown fuse or is some board damaged now?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

I triple-checked and all ribbon cables seem to be correctly seated, all have the purple stripe at the 1,2 numbering end. Only connector I can't find see any pinout on either the board or the manual is J201 on the CPU board. I'm pretty sure the purple stripe should be on the left side of the connector as the cables "memory" want it that way.
After checking the ribbon cables again I looked below the playfield for any loose cables but couldn't see any.
Decided to try again and turned on the power, this time flipper doesn't activate but the DMD display are just garbage dots and the two first status LEDs (D19, D20) on the CPU board is constantly off (which is wrong) while D21 lights up (5v ok). I can here one "bong" from the speakers as usual. Could this be a blown fuse or is some board damaged now?

Try the MPU boot without any connection but the power J210.

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

Try the MPU boot without any connection but the power J210.

With the above all 3 LEDs indicate correctly, so that's good.

Should I reattach the connectors in any specific order or just add one at a time and try power on between to see when it start to behave wrong?

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

With the above all 3 LEDs indicate correctly, so that's good.
Should I reattach the connectors in any specific order or just add one at a time and try power on between to see when it start to behave wrong?

Check to power board direction first, then move to fliptronic, sound, dmd.

#10 3 years ago

Added each connector one by one back to the cpu board and status leds are ok even when all are connected. DMD looks fine again.

I did disconnect the whole Ted head earlier so it might be a short or sonething in there (his eyes wont open so something is wrong).

Anyway, I'm now back to the initial problem. Game looks ok, leds ok, but it won't start when I press start button(that registers properly in switch edge test).

I've noticed another thing; when I power on the game (and coin door is closed so coils are active) the coil that feeds balls one by one in the pop-up assembly (multiball lock assy) tries to feed balls six times and then stops. To me this seem to indicate that the game thinks there are some balls locked and tries to release them. Could it be a switch issue ?

If the game think balls are locked I guess it will refuse to start a game even though it can see the four real balls in the through? It might think I have five balls in the game instead of four?

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Could it be a switch issue ?

Yes. Or switch matrix issue.

LTG : )

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Added each connector one by one back to the cpu board and status leds are ok even when all are connected. DMD looks fine again.
I did disconnect the whole Ted head earlier so it might be a short or sonething in there (his eyes wont open so something is wrong).
Anyway, I'm now back to the initial problem. Game looks ok, leds ok, but it won't start when I press start button(that registers properly in switch edge test).
I've noticed another thing; when I power on the game (and coin door is closed so coils are active) the coil that feeds balls one by one in the pop-up assembly (multiball lock assy) tries to feed balls six times and then stops. To me this seem to indicate that the game thinks there are some balls locked and tries to release them. Could it be a switch issue ?
If the game think balls are locked I guess it will refuse to start a game even though it can see the four real balls in the through? It might think I have five balls in the game instead of four?

How is your switch edges test look like?
Here is mine for reference.

20201127_192750 (resized).jpg20201127_192750 (resized).jpg
#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

How is your switch edges test look like?
Here is mine for reference.[quoted image]

I just checked mine, four closed switches:
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

12 Dozer up
15 Dozer down
24 Always closed
41 Through jam

Doesn't seem to be exactly the same as yours though. You have "coin door closed" (mine was open at screenshot time so we can ignore that one) but I have both up and down dozer! The thing is the dozer seem to behave fine in the dozer test, it goes up and down and the switches are only on one at a time at min and max position.

I did again verify that the through works fine by inserting a ball at a time and see 42 - 45 change from closed to open for each ball entered. Through jam changes to open if I put a pen in the way of the opto, so yes the through is 100% ok.

Again, when I turn power on the multiball lock assembly moves the "ball separator coil" six times and then stop. I disconnected the two switches for that assembly just for the sake of it and it didn't help, it still tries to find balls in the pop up assembly (ball lock). Here is a video of it:

Wonder if I should try to disconnect the connector for the dozer opto board so it's completely gone and see if I can start a game. It somehow feel more logical that the game refusing to start should be connected to the "ball search" in ball lock assembly than the function of the dozer blade though.

Edit: Come to think of if, the dozer up and coin door switch is on the same row (and just beside each other), could there be a bad diode or short that make it think the door switch is "dozer up" ? I will check what happens in the switch matrix if I close/open the coin door as I haven't really messed with the door (mostly kept it open for access to the buttons).

Edit2: Tried open and closing the coin door, the correct switch for coin door changed state in the switch matrix and all other switches unchanged, so my theory was wrong. Also tried to disconnect the dozer opto board connector and while they no longer reports closed in switch matrix, I still can't start a game.

Wtf, this is driving me insane :/

#14 3 years ago

Ok, another try: run a solenoid test. Check one by one.
Then push the asic chip.
Then rotate ribbon cable (MPU/PWR).

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

...
Then rotate ribbon cable (MPU/PWR).

I guess rotating would work as its a "straight" cable, so even if the banded edge would change side the signals still just go straight over, right? Kind of feels nervous about this part, even though it sound really straightforward.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

I guess rotating would work as its a "straight" cable, so even if the banded edge would change side the signals still just go straight over, right? Kind of feels nervous about this part, even though it sound really straightforward.

Yes, don't worry about that between MPU and Power driver.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

Ok, another try: run a solenoid test. Check one by one.
Then push the asic chip.
Then rotate ribbon cable (MPU/PWR).

Ted is still disconnected but I tested all other coils in the game and they work as they should, the correct coil activates and only one at a time.

I pressed on the asic chip (big square one right?) and tested again, still can't start a game.

Just to clarify, I do need balls in the through to start right ? It's kind of annoying adding and removing the balls for the 1334th time while looking for this error.

The two dozer optos register correctly when I move some paper through them, so the reason both are being closed are simply because my motor have stopped between them and thus not registering. Still feels like the dozer shouldn't be the cause to why I can't start a game. Why the heck is the ball lock assembly looking for balls there when the through properly reads all four installed.... !?!?!?

Edit: Rotated the cable between MPU and Power, no change.

#18 3 years ago

Game should do a ball search if start button is pressed with no balls. Still better to have them in.

Power off, reseat all the connectors on the coin door interface board. Start button wiring goes through that board. While you're in there, closely inspect the interface board and start button for anything that doesn't look right. Solder splash, bent diode, fallen screw behind board, etc.

Also reseat all the connectors on the bottom of the CPU board. Those connectors are for the switch matrix and dedicated switches. Inspect connectors and pins for any sign of corrosion.

If none of that works, try blocking one of the dozer optos. Both being in the same state may be preventing game start.

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Game should do a ball search if start button is pressed with no balls. Still better to have them in.
Power off, reseat all the connectors on the coin door interface board. Start button wiring goes through that board. While you're in there, closely inspect the interface board and start button for anything that doesn't look right. Solder splash, bent diode, fallen screw behind board, etc.
Also reseat all the connectors on the bottom of the CPU board. Those connectors are for the switch matrix and dedicated switches. Inspect connectors and pins for any sign of corrosion.
If none of that works, try blocking one of the dozer optos. Both being in the same state may be preventing game start.

Already reseated the connectors at the bottom of the MPU board (I did that earlier when I removed all connectors and then re-added them one by one).

I haven't really checked anything on the door interface board, simply because the start button registers in the switch matrix, but sure I can go over it visually and reseating all connectors for proper connection.

Game does NOT ballsearch when no balls in through and I press start button, simply nothing happens.

I think the key to the game refusing to start is tied to the coil looking for balls in the multiball lock assembly (as if It think I have the wrong amount of balls), but I have no idea why it does it. I have four balls in tray as standard and the game has been factory reset, so shouldn't be set to 3 or 5 balls in software.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

How are your fuses?

Haven't checked them today, but went through ALL yesterday, removed them and measured with MM, and all fine then. I'm having the same issue as yesterday so I don't think a fuse should have blown since then. Also, all coils work in single coil test, all lamps, switches and motors too (apart from Ted that I have disconnected completely due to issues with him, have disabled him in software too so the game is aware he is missing). If a fuse was broken some stuff shouldn't work.

This is so annoying, the game looks great with all leds going in attract mode, DMD shows properly and such. It just wont start a game.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Haven't checked them today, but went through ALL yesterday, removed them and measured with MM, and all fine then. I'm having the same issue as yesterday so I don't think a fuse should have blown since then. Also, all coils work in single coil test, all lamps, switches and motors too (apart from Ted that I have disconnected completely due to issues with him, have disabled him in software too so the game is aware he is missing). If a fuse was broken some stuff shouldn't work.

What if you load the balls manually to lock and start city, then restart a pin?

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

What if you load the balls manually to lock and start city, then restart a pin?

Loaded 3 balls in multiball lock and 1 in start city and powered on: game ejected all four balls back to through immediately then did the usual "moving six times the coil in the ball lock assembly" and then nothing more. Still can't start a game.

#25 3 years ago

I solved it, yay!
1 (resized).png1 (resized).png

For future references, it was an issue with the extra ball/buy in button that were wired wrong. One of the two button lamp cables were wired to the switch instead. This was not picked up/shown in the switch matrix but this incorrect wiring perhaps made the game think someone was pressing "buy in" constantly or something like that, anyway it made the game refuse to start (even though it recognized the actual start button press separately). The multiball lock assembly also stopped doing its ball search

The button wasn't lit so I thought it was a broken bulb and didn't really bother with it first, but when I went to replace it today I saw it was wired to the switch and realized it probably had something to do with the start issue.

Game now starts but there are still an issue with Ted and also the dozer blade (it works nice in dozer test mode but in play it hangs in the middle of the air instead of resting against the play field). Those things feel like minor things though when I got like 95% of the game running now.

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

this incorrect wiring perhaps made the game think someone was pressing "buy in" constantly or something like that

Why it was not visible in switch test?

#27 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

Why it was not visible in switch test?

No idea. Maybe it didn't actually sent a button press signal, but in that case I don't understand how it would prevent the game from starting.

I'm 100% sure this is the solution as the moment I removed the wiring to the buy in button I tested to press start and immediately the game started a normal ballsearch (as trough were empty), something it never had done before. Then I just loaded the balls and started playing.

#28 3 years ago

I'm happy you solved it!

My dozer also sat like yours did. It was mechanical, the left side of the jaw (his right) had a screw that didn't hold it correctly, causing it to bind. Maybe yours is similar.

Nice job on the fix/restoration!

#29 3 years ago
Quoted from ThePinballCo-op:

I'm happy you solved it!
My dozer also sat like yours did. It was mechanical, the left side of the jaw (his right) had a screw that didn't hold it correctly, causing it to bind. Maybe yours is similar.
Nice job on the fix/restoration!

Thanks for the hint, I will look at the dozer screws while I disassemble Ted to fix his eyes not opening.

His eyes did work (mechanically, without electricity) when I renovated the head earlier on the bench and he opened his eyes first time I tested his coils in the game, but after that they remain shut so something have happened inside. Too bad I have to remove half of the game to access him, why couldn't it been Red instead. Darn Murphy lol.

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Thanks for the hint, I will look at the dozer screws while I disassemble Ted to fix his eyes not opening.
His eyes did work (mechanically, without electricity) when I renovated the head earlier on the bench and he opened his eyes first time I tested his coils in the game, but after that they remain shut so something have happened inside. Too bad I have to remove half of the game to access him, why couldn't it been Red instead. Darn Murphy lol.

No need to remove half of the game: use a bit/wrench method, like this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/road-show-club-hard-hats-required-on-site/page/41#post-5594904

While you are there, I recommend to use metal crank for the left/right eye movement (A-16258), the plastic breaks easily.
https://pinball-parts.shop/kategoriesuche/spielfeldteile/plastics/30783/crank-roadshow-funhouse

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from Davi:

No need to remove half of the game: use a bit/wrench method, like this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/road-show-club-hard-hats-required-on-site/page/41#post-5594904
While you are there, I recommend to use metal crank for the left/right eye movement (A-16258), the plastic breaks easily.
https://pinball-parts.shop/kategoriesuche/spielfeldteile/plastics/30783/crank-roadshow-funhouse

Well, it only took like 30 minutes to remove hat, face, neck, the left shooter habit rail, the left ramp diverter, the two main ramps, the subway beneath ted, teds motor and the bulldozer only to get Teds head out... Serviceability was obviously not their first priority when designing this game

I'm pretty annoyed now as it turns out the problem with Teds eyes not working was due to me replacing the original springs with new replacements as I thought "why not put in all new stuff when I'm restoring it". The small coils didn't have the strength to handle the brand new, a bit harder, springs and thus got stuck. Maybe I should stick to the "If it work then don't fix it" saying lol

I did find a few bad looking solder points on the dozer opto board so reheated all of them, played a ball or two and it seems the dozer is behaving correctly, but will play a few more tomorrow to verify properly before I put everything back again on the upside of PF.

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