Hi. This does not seem to be my week for optos. I'm curious if some of you think my multiple issues are related or unrelated.

Issue One:
For some time I've been having an issue with the middle flipper on Roadshow. When the left flipper button is engaged the middle flipper continually flips. It's about a flip per second, full force. I figured it was EOS switch, but switch test says otherwise. Then I thought it was a bad coil on the hold side. Flipper test says otherwise. Hmmm...

Issue Two:
Then Roadshow's flippers in general seem to be weak intermittently. In test mode the flip full force. In the game, often not so much.

These two issues lead me to believe that either I've got a bad LM339 chip in my fliptronics board or that my optos are old and need replaced. I cleaned them and no help with the constantly pulsing middle flipper, but it did seem like the lower flipper strength issue got better (ish).

Issue Three:
Now I have what appears to be two failed optos on my bulldozer. In switch test if I put a piece of paper in front of up or down then they read closed. When they are open, they read open/close/open/close/open/close in very fast succession.

So what gives? Where would I even start (I do have three replacement optos coming from pinball life)? Are these issues related in any way or just bad luck this week for optos?

Thanks in advance.
Dan

Thanks Wayout. Good find. That sounds almost exactly like two of my issues all wrapped into one! I ordered a handful of LM339 chips from GPE just in case, and I do have another WPC (NGG) to swap opto boards out. NGG doesn't use Fliptronics, so no love there, but it seems that board is pretty simple to bench test. I'll report back what I find.

Thanks for the reply, RCA. There's no pot on the opto board itself, but now that you mention that I do recall one on a board close by. I had no idea but will try this and report back. Thanks again!

Yes, dozer up and dozer down opto switches. That makes more sense.

Well, I did Leon Borre's full Fliptronics 2 bench test, front to back. I bench tested it with a PC power supply and my o-scope. Shorted the pins Leon said to short and both LM339s test out good. All highs went low when he said they should change. I also did the second part of his test, shorting parts of U2 and lighting LEDS off the big connector. No failures. So it seems my fliptronics board is fine.

Switching one set of optos for another did help the weakness issues with the flippers and corrected the machine gunning of the middle flipper "some" meaning it machine guns much less noticably but still does it. But now I have occasional "phantom flips" where both flippers pulse slightly about every 30 seconds.

I do have new optics on order so will swap them just in case. I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the 12V to the optos, though. Any thoughts on the best way to test this?

Dan

_{Post edited by Curbfeeler: added that I have optics on order.}

Okay, I am about to pull my hair out! I did the Leon Borre bench test, and my Fliptronics showed 100% fine, but just in case I socketed and replaced both LM339 chips. Nothing changed.

I also replaced all 4 optos with brand new from GPE and nothing changed.

Then today I swapped Fliptronics boards with a buddy and mine tests fine in his machine. We also tested both my opto boards and both test fine as well. He sent me home with his board, and when I put it in my game the problem persists.

To recap, the problem is that I have weaker than normal flippers when there is a load on them such as the ball's weight. Many flips are fine but a flip that catches the ball barely lofts the ball at all. Also, I've got a middle flipper that is machine gunning like crazy. Finally, this is what I get in switch test mode (see youtube).

I just replaced all 4 of my optos with optos from GPE. Also, I put my opto boards in WCS94 and the flips are fine. This is on both sides, not just one side. I am stumped.

Also I think this is important. I had a very similar machine-gun like switch test reading with the bulldozer where it read open-close in succession like this. I have that board pulled out right now.

Thanks for any help!
Dan

Oh, that's good to know. I actually just checked before I saw this and found I only have 9.8 v on the 12VDC and 4.9 on the 5VDC, so you're right it's driver board for sure. Thanks! I will check AC voltage tomorrow as well.

Dan

Thanks Atomic. This coil is okay as in flipper test they react normally both pulse and hold. Plus this is every opto in the game, not just flippers.

I seem to have come upon a problem that is little-documented. It's not in the pinwiki and just barely mentioned on a few threads on here. When all your optos jitter, check TP1 on your driver board for 12V unregulated. If it's 9.5-10V or so, then your problem is in that circuit. It's a small circuit with just a BR and a cap. I will report back tonight. I have both parts on hand.

Dan

Okay, it drives me crazy when people post an issue and then don't post the resolution. The symptoms here were all my optos were going crazy in switch test. Further investigation found only 10VDC on TP1 on the driver board. The resolution? Cold solder joint on one of the legs of the big capacitor C30. I'd swapped all 5 big caps out about a year ago and reinforced the lifted traces with single strand copper and copper solder wick. Works great if you actually solder the legs to the wick properly instead of surface mount cold soldering it like a doofus. Live and learn.

I just went ahead and replaced C30 with a new one, but mine was probably still good. Game plays 100% now. Thanks to all who helped!

Dan