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All the fuses are good. Like I said, when I go into tests everything fires, also in ball search everything works.

#1103 6 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Hey guys, thanks for all the help so far. I got the Kahr board and even though I didn't need it, I plugged it in, everything has been working fine. Until tonight, when my son was playing I noticed the pop bumpers and the slingshots weren't firing, when just a few minutes earlier they were working fine for me. I went into tests and they all fire fine. I looked at all connections underneath play field, and also on top, checking all leaf switches. I couldn't see anything out of the ordinary. Is it odd that just the slings and bumpers would stop working and the rest of the game would play fine?
What is my next course of action?

Switch edge test. Check to see if the switches that activate them are working. In ball search mode and in the test mode for coils the switches don't fire the coils, the game does.

#1104 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Quoted from dsuperbee:
Switch edge test. Check to see if the switches that activate them are working. In ball search mode and in the test mode for coils the switches don't fire the coils, the game does.

Ok, so I did the switch test and they are not activating the coils? I can't see any loose solder connections or broken connections underneath the play field.

#1105 6 years ago

DIO

Hey Induguys... i dunno if its worth it. (Price wise) But here's a link to a thread with some RS parts for sale.. i see he has a shaker motor on the list... cheers
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/selling-pinball-parts/page/6#post-4038311

#1106 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Quoted from Dee-Bow:
Hey Induguys... i dunno if its worth it. (Price wise) But here's a link to a thread with some RS parts for sale.. i see he has a shaker motor on the list... cheers
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/selling-pinball-parts/page/6#post-4038311

Thanks man, just sent him a pm!

#1107 6 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Ok, so I did the switch test and they are not activating the coils? I can't see any loose solder connections or broken connections underneath the play field.

Check what row/column those switches are in. There could be a loose or broken wire in the daisy chain, or it could be a bad drive/pre drive transistor. If you don't have a manual yet, use ipbd.org to check.

#1108 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Thanks, I have the manual, haven't found anything yet, I keep hoping I will find a loose cable or connector.

#1109 6 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Thanks, I have the manual, haven't found anything yet, I keep hoping I will find a loose cable or connector.

If everything else in the row/column works, probably a loose wire. If nothing else works, probably a transistor

#1110 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Quoted from dsuperbee:
If everything else in the row/column works, probably a loose wire. If nothing else works, probably a transistor

Yeah nothing in the column works, so next step is to check transistor. I have used a multi meter before but not to check transistors, I will see if I can figure it out.

#1111 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

I am having trouble checking transistors, with the board in place it is very difficult to get my leads on the contacts. Where in the manual will it say which transistor(s) are responsible for the pop bumpers and slings?

#1112 6 years ago

MJO

Mocean

Pinside member

11y 75,050 1,367

Quoted from Indusguys:
I am having trouble checking transistors, with the board in place it is very difficult to get my leads on the contacts. Where in the manual will it say which transistor(s) are responsible for the pop bumpers and slings?

Second page of the PDF. See the column "drive xistor" with the Q values? Those correspond to values screened on the driver board

#1113 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Ok found that thank you. Do I have to pull the board to check the transistors?

#1114 6 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Ok found that thank you. Do I have to pull the board to check the transistors?

No, just keep the game off

#1115 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Ok, I'm on it!

#1116 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Ok just checked the transistors that correspond with pop bumpers and slingshots, they are all reading fine. Where do you guys think I should look next?

#1117 6 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Ok just checked the transistors that correspond with pop bumpers and slingshots, they are all reading fine. Where do you guys think I should look next?

What readings did you get?

#1118 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Quoted from dsuperbee:
What readings did you get?

Right around .569, is that right? I got around the same reading for all transistors that I checked.

#1119 6 years ago

PR!

pkrobin

Pinside member

Calgary, AB

8y 33,300 281 5

Quoted from Indusguys:
Right around .569, is that right? I got around the same reading for all transistors that I checked.

Yup. Sorry might have missed the start of this. I assume you unplugged and reseated the connector? Might be J207 IIR?

#1120 6 years ago

SRT

TheOnlyest

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Ok just checked the transistors that correspond with pop bumpers and slingshots, they are all reading fine. Where do you guys think I should look next?

OK, enuff of this... Time to jump in and offer some real help to this dude... If your coils all work in solenoid test mode, you're wasting your time playing with the driver transistors. Go into switch test and see if the sling and pop switches register... I suspect they wont. i'm 98% sure you have a switch matrix problem, which can be as simple as a broken common wire, to replacing the U20 chip on the CPU board.
Look under the PF and find the green w/blue stripe wire which is common to the switches on both slings and all 3 pop bumpers... follow it to every sling and pop switch, also making sure that the diode leads at those switches are not broken on either side, and then follow the wire all the way up to the J207 connector on the CPU board and make sure it isn't broken anywhere. Report back and we'll go from there.

#1121 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

I have checked everything under the PF a few times now, I will check one more time to make sure the diode leads at the switches aren't broken. I have followed all the wires and everything looks good, but I didn't look that close at the diodes. I will check first thing in the morning. Thanks!

#1122 6 years ago

SRT

TheOnlyest

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
I have checked everything under the PF a few times now, I will check one more time to make sure the diode leads at the switches aren't broken. I have followed all the wires and everything looks good, but I didn't look that close at the diodes. I will check first thing in the morning. Thanks!

Ok well, if you're sure, then you need to replace the U20 (ULN2803A) chip on your CPU board, it should be socketed, so it is easy to pull and replace. Based on your scenario, I find it hard to believe that you blew the U20 somewhere between playing games... 99 out of 100 times, the only way to blow a U20 is by accidentally shorting voltage from the GI circuit or elsewhere to a switch while recklessly working under the playfield with the game powered on.
I am still convinced that since your entire column 6 is out, you have a broken or disconnected wire, either on the J207 connector, or at one of the pop switches. Did you do the switch test? Do you know how to do a continuity test with an ohm meter?

Obviously if I put eyes on your game, i'd be able to tell you whats wrong in a matter of seconds, there's only so much I can do here blindly.

#1123 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Quoted from TheOnlyest:
Ok well, if you're sure, then you need to replace the U20 (ULN2803A) chip on your CPU board, it should be socketed, so it is easy to pull and replace. Based on your scenario, I find it hard to believe that you blew the U20 somewhere between playing games... 99 out of 100 times, the only way to blow a U20 is by accidentally shorting voltage from the GI circuit or elsewhere to a switch while recklessly working under the playfield with the game powered on.
I am still convinced that since your entire column 6 is out, you have a broken or disconnected wire, either on the J207 connector, or at one of the pop switches. Did you do the switch test? Do you know how to do a continuity test with an ohm meter?
Obviously if I put eyes on your game, i'd be able to tell you whats wrong in a matter of seconds, there's only so much I can do here blindly.

Did you mean J107 connection? If so everything is fine there. All diodes and wires are good. When I turn on the game it says press enter for test report, I go into the tests and it says all the switches in column 6 aren't working. I have done a switch edge test and none of the switches for my problem area are working. I do know how to do continuity test, what should I test? The diodes? I do not have access to a ULN2803A chip in my city. Would it be ok to remove the same chip from my Addams family and see if it fixes my problem? Otherwise I will have to wait a few days to get the chip. What do you think?

#1124 6 years ago

PR!

pkrobin

Pinside member

Calgary, AB

8y 33,300 281 5

Quoted from Indusguys:
Did you mean J107 connection? If so everything is fine there. All diodes and wires are good. When I turn on the game it says press enter for test report, I go into the tests and it says all the switches in column 6 aren't working. I have done a switch edge test and none of the switches for my problem area are working. I do know how to do continuity test, what should I test? The diodes? I do not have access to a ULN2803A chip in my city. Would it be ok to remove the same chip from my Addams family and see if it fixes my problem? Otherwise I will have to wait a few days to get the chip. What do you think?

Should be j207 looking at matrix

#1125 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Yup, my mistake.

#1126 6 years ago

SRT

TheOnlyest

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Did you mean J107 connection? If so everything is fine there. All diodes and wires are good. When I turn on the game it says press enter for test report, I go into the tests and it says all the switches in column 6 aren't working. I have done a switch edge test and none of the switches for my problem area are working. I do know how to do continuity test, what should I test? The diodes? I do not have access to a ULN2803A chip in my city. Would it be ok to remove the same chip from my Addams family and see if it fixes my problem? Otherwise I will have to wait a few days to get the chip. What do you think?

No, J207 on the CPU board (bottom of the farthest left board), not the big power/driver board. A continuity test is done using your ohm meter with the leads at each end of a wire, you should have 0 ohms if the wire is good, if no change, the wire is bad. It is not uncommon for a wire to be broken inside the insulation and not be visibly obvious. To connect a test lead at the connector end, you will need to insert a metal pin or thin paperclip into the connector where the Green w/Blue stripe wire is (pin 7).

While the Addams Family is not a WPC-S game, U20 would be the same chip. If it is socketed on your AF, then yes, you could swap it over... But if its soldered directly to the board, DONT remove it for testing in your RS.

Do I need to remind you to have the games powered OFF when doing any of this stuff??

ULN2803A -- http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/ULN2803A

#1127 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Everything looks good at J207.

#1128 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Yep, machine off, I am going to do a continuity test at J207, focused on pin 7.

#1129 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

I am having a hard time finding something tiny enough to test the connector, but I will find something. Is there only one U20 location? What tool do you use to pull the chip?

#1130 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

A small sewing needle should work to test the connector continuity right?

#1131 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Ok I took the chip from Addams family and moved it to Road Show, and now everything works!

Theonlyest thank you so much!

#1132 6 years ago

SRT

TheOnlyest

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Is there only one U20 location? What tool do you use to pull the chip?

Yes, Ideally an electronics "hook" but you can do it with a tiny flat jewelers screwdriver, pry gently back and forth on each side to remove it straight, as to not bend the pins. If you bend any pins, gently bend them back dead straight before reinstalling.

Quoted from Indusguys:
A small sewing needle should work to test the connector continuity right?

Indeed, any rigid metal that will fit in the connector, dont force something too big. Use the pins on the board as a reference for size.

#1133 6 years ago

SRT

TheOnlyest

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Ok I took the chip from Addams family and moved it to Road Show, and now everything works!
Theonlyest thank you so much!

Yay! order a couple ULN2803A's... they're cheap and its good to have a spare or 2 on-hand.

#1134 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

A fellow Pinsider near me had a couple to spare! Everything is working great, except for now when I turn on the machine all the coils fire for a couple seconds, it seems like it might be stuck, and then the machine boots up as normal?

#1135 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Also Ted's mouth is not working. Checked connections there, they look solid.

#1136 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Gear on Ted's mouth was binding a bit, gave it a small adjustment and it seems to be working fine now.

#1137 6 years ago

SRT

TheOnlyest

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
A fellow Pinsider near me had a couple to spare! Everything is working great, except for now when I turn on the machine all the coils fire for a couple seconds, it seems like it might be stuck, and then the machine boots up as normal?

Normal. The diagnostic system causes that from the previous errors in memory, it will stop.

#1138 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Ok so I got a package in the mail today with my replacement ULN2803A (ordered a couple extra). So I took the Addams Family chip out put it back in Addams Family and played a couple games, works great! However, I put the new chip in Road Show and I am having all sorts of problems/glitchy stuff going on. Just to check I put the same chip in Addams Family and it started acting the same. What is going on?

Whoops, put the chip in upside down.

#1139 6 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Ok so I got a package in the mail today with my replacement ULN2803A (ordered a couple extra). So I took the Addams Family chip out put it back in Addams Family and played a couple games, works great! However, I put the new chip in Road Show and I am having all sorts of problems/glitchy stuff going on. Just to check I put the same chip in Addams Family and it started acting the same. What is going on?

Is the chip socketed properly?

#1140 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member

Upside down.

#1141 6 years ago

SRT

TheOnlyest

Pinside member

Quoted from Indusguys:
Upside down.

#1142 6 years ago

JUN

jbug

Pinside member

Chicago, IL

11y 41,050 179

Here is a problem I've noticed on my RS since the day I got it. When in falling rocks, it's hit and miss whether or not you hear the sound effects of the rocks falling. I've re-seated and replaced ribbon cables and a couple of other things that I forgot. Have any of you ever had that problem?

I'm still waiting on a repair guy to stop by to fix a problem with the heads and so RS is out of commission for now but I picked up a like new POTC which is a great game also.

#1143 6 years ago

PHB

purplemunkydishw

Inactive member

Hartford, CT

8y 35,400 286 1 7

Quoted from jbug:
When in falling rocks, it's hit and miss whether or not you hear the sound effects of the rocks falling. I've re-seated and replaced ribbon cables and a couple of other things that I forgot. Have any of you ever had that problem?

I've had that happen a few times, always figured it was a bug of some sort. Happens maybe once in like 50 times...

If yours is more frequent, maybe your sound roms are failing? You checked everything else I would check.

#1144 6 years ago

JUN

jbug

Pinside member

Chicago, IL

11y 41,050 179

Quoted from purplemunkydishw:
I've had that happen a few times, always figured it was a bug of some sort. Happens maybe once in like 50 times...
If yours is more frequent, maybe your sound roms are failing? You checked everything else I would check.

Thanks, I am going to get a new ROM and see what happens. Falling rocks is no fun without the effect (lol).

#1145 6 years ago

BAK

dsuperbee

Pinside member

I would reseat the roms before ordering. I saw you did the cables, but roms weren't mentioned.

#1146 6 years ago

JUN

jbug

Pinside member

Chicago, IL

11y 41,050 179

Quoted from dsuperbee:
I would reseat the roms before ordering. I saw you did the cables, but roms weren't mentioned.

Thanks and will do. I also finally got a date from a repair person also so good news there. I haven't been able to play RS since late spring.

#1147 6 years ago

DIO

Dee-Bow

Pinside member

Regina, SK

8y 101K 5,297 4

AHHHHH, FALLING ROCKS.........FALLING ROCKS. (i miss this game!)

#1148 6 years ago

RMS

dirtbag66

Blocked

9y 2,405

Okay gentlemen, there's a good chance I will be joining this club (finally) very soon. Got a game on the chopping block, got the unofficial "okay" from the wife last night, and there's a Road Show for sale up north, so I have one important question to ask all of you before I take the plunge:

How much of a pain in the ass are Red and Ted to fix/maintain?

Any/all advice and feedback will be greatly appreciated!

#1149 6 years ago

RAW

Indusguys

Pinside member