(Topic ID: 178845)

Road Kings will not BOOT.

By Mope161616

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 22 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by barakandl
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_7107 (resized).JPG
IMG_7109 (resized).JPG
IMG_7108 (resized).JPG
IMG_7106 (resized).JPG
IMG_7104 (resized).JPG
IMG_7105 (resized).JPG
IMG_7103 (resized).JPG
IMG_7102 (resized).JPG
IMG_7101 (resized).JPG
IMG_7049 (resized).JPG

#1 5 years ago

I just bought a Road Kings project that will not boot. The 7 segment display shows a solid 8 at powerup. And I get the single tone. The board is very clean and shows no sign of acid damage, or history of repairs. I did confirm battery voltage at battery holder and nearby diode. Machine will respond to coin drop with audio, and can hear a very faint 'chug chug chug' if you press the start switch but nothing else. Checked voltages on power supply and I believe they all check out per online references. Nothing comes on any of the displays. Machine will not go into attract mode. (I don't think)(no lights ever flash on playfield, but if left on, sometimes plays audio) If I play with the adjustment buttons I can blindly come across audio test which all work. I almost think I have dead displays AND mpu problems, which will really suck.

New batteries installed and checked voltage with machine off, good. I did replace all caps and high voltage section of power supply and still have exact same problems. Also reseated roms and went through most connections. Press the CPU button on the mpu board and after a second or two the 7 segment display shows a distorted 3, the upper right segment of the 3 is blank.

Reading dozens of posts it sounds like an MPU problem, which is a little out of my comfort zone.

Where to next? any specifics I can check before I try and find someone to send the MPU board to? whats the going repair cost for an MPU board? Board is really clean.

Thanks

mope~

IMG_7049 (resized).JPG

#2 5 years ago

Starting with the basics...did you check all fuses to make sure they are good and the correct fuse that is required for proper function? Next step would be to check voltage from there. Do you have the owner's manual? Might be able to find it for download on ipdb.org . Check the Power Supply Board usually in the upper right of the backbox. On the bottom center of that board you will be a black capacitor, just to the left of that is a square 12 pin cable....the 5V comes thru there....look for possibly burnt connector? I think it's the middle row pin on the far right that brings the 5V power in. Test that to see if you are getting 5 Volts. I've seen that connector burn on other system 11 games. If that connector is burnt you can replace it...also check for a cold solder joint on the back of the board and reflow some new solder if you can do that type of thing. Hopefully some other good people here can lend some insight to help you get it up and running. Good Luck!

#3 5 years ago

Huh.. I have a,road kings .I had trouble with another system 11 and it ended up being the start switch and batteries .. if you need me to check things on mine message me .. IL help if I can.. mine is 100 percent working..

#4 5 years ago

Well, while checking over some simple things before I decide to send this MPU out, I checked my trough switches and found one out of adjustment. I adjusted it and it will get closer to starting a game. It will play game music and switches will respond with noises and effects. I get no controlled lights lighting on the playfield, just a handful of GI stay on.

No flippers or solenoids are working. I do have 71 volts at the flippers. And by tripping the transistors with a ground wire I can get most solenoids to respond, but not the flippers.

I read somewhere that by pressing the red switch inside the coin door, i should hear the relay on the mpu click....it doesnt. At a quick glance it looks like Q8 is controlling the relay. If I trip Q8 with a ground wire my solenoid fuse blows.

I will play with this thing a little more and see what I find. Any suggestions?

Thanks

#5 5 years ago

Sounds like a switch or connector man.
I've had weird stuff happen. Genraly ends up being something simple .. not sure on your issue man.

#6 5 years ago

Both troff switches deff have to register ... also make sure the diodes are good on the switches ...

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from Mope161616:

If I trip Q8 with a ground wire my solenoid fuse blows.

Then something is wrong with the A/C relay, or the wiring going to the relay. Something has very low ohms.

Quoted from Mope161616:I get no controlled lights lighting on the playfield

Is the CPU booting up, or do you just not have power for the lamps?
What does your blanking signal measure?

#8 5 years ago

I assume the cpu is not booting properly since I show an 8 on display, I guess it should show a 0 when it boots properly.

I will dig into the relay a little more.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Mope161616:

I will dig into the relay a little more.

The coil for the relay is shorted or the diode across the coil is shorted. I would cut the diode off and measure the coil's ohms (220-280 ohms). Then check the diode. Replace as needed. You need to post each and every voltage on the machine also check for AC ripple on the 5 volt line. If you think this is not booting then you need to disconnect all connectors on the CPU board except the input power connector. Then power it up and see what you have on the LED display.

#10 5 years ago

Grumps is the man at diagnostic...

#11 5 years ago

Grumpy,

Thank you for the input. I will get back to this machine this weekend and see whats up. I will sit with a notepad and get some voltage readings and take a closer look at the relay.

#12 5 years ago

So I got 5 mins of free time to check some other minor things....

I pulled all plugs off the board except the power and still get the "8".
I measure 4.9vdc at the batteries and at the 1st pins on the roms, ac ripple of .002vac (I did change caps on power supply already)

I dont know where exactly to check 'blanking' voltage but found a test point marked 'blanking' but i only get .074vdc

I am timid to cut the diode off the board for the relay yet because I dont want to start chopping on the board if i might be sending it out anyway. Could the diode for the relay or the relay cause the board not to boot?

Thanks guys, I am sort of a noob and appreciate the step by help.

~mope

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from Mope161616:

I measure 4.9vdc at the batteries and at the 1st pins on the roms, ac ripple of .002vac (I did change caps on power supply already)

This is fine. But you need 12 volts to the board for the reset pulse also. Test for this at the cathode side of ZR1.

Quoted from Mope161616:I dont know where exactly to check 'blanking' voltage but found a test point marked 'blanking' but i only get .074vdc

This is the correct place to check this and it should be 4.85 volts when the board boots.

Quoted from Mope161616:I am timid to cut the diode off the board for the relay yet because I dont want to start chopping on the board if i might be sending it out anyway. Could the diode for the relay or the relay cause the board not to boot?

The relay I was talking about was the A/C relay which is controlled by Q-8 is under the p/f not on the CPU board. The relay on the CPU board is for the flippers. And no its not causing the CPU board to not boot.

Also if you are downloading the manual from the web for Road Kings its missing pages for the CPU. You can use the High Speed manual as they are the same.

Since this is a new pin for you, give the CPU board a very good visual inspection. It may be a good idea to remove the board for this as you can look on the back side for any old repairs. Not a bad Idea to post some pics of both sides also. Check socket chips for bent pins, corrosion and make sure they are inserted all the way. Then reinstall board with just the power connector and retest.

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

The coil for the relay is shorted or the diode across the coil is shorted. I would cut the diode off and measure the coil's ohms (220-280 ohms). Then check the diode. Replace as needed. You need to post each and every voltage on the machine also check for AC ripple on the 5 volt line. If you think this is not booting then you need to disconnect all connectors on the CPU board except the input power connector. Then power it up and see what you have on the LED display.

The A-C relay toggles the hot side of the solenoid banks, right? Could it be a shorted driver transistor (plus attacehd solenoid is low ohm) that is only used on one side? So unless the relay pulls in the to bring the solenoid voltage to the shorted coil, the fuse won't blow.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

The A-C relay toggles the hot side of the solenoid banks, right? Could it be a shorted driver transistor (plus attacehd solenoid is low ohm) that is only used on one side? So unless the relay pulls in the to bring the solenoid voltage to the shorted coil, the fuse won't blow

This can be true, most system11 don't have coils on the A side just flasher bulbs but in the case of Road Kings the knocker coil is on the A side. Also a pinched and grounded wire on the A side can cause this. I get forgetful now and then as I am old enough for a senior discount, so keep me on my toes.

#16 5 years ago

12.8 vdc on zener, 6.5vdc on the other side. .200vac on both sides.

So I pulled the board....and I am glad I did, Q75 has been replaced at some point, which I didnt notice with it in the machine. And Q7 has a piece blown out of it.

See attached pictures for more of a trained eye inspection.

Thanks in advance.

IMG_7101 (resized).JPG

IMG_7102 (resized).JPG

IMG_7103 (resized).JPG

IMG_7105 (resized).JPG

IMG_7104 (resized).JPG

IMG_7106 (resized).JPG

IMG_7108 (resized).JPG

IMG_7109 (resized).JPG

IMG_7107 (resized).JPG

#17 5 years ago

My main concern obviously is still that the board does not boot. I have OK soldering skills to attack the transistors, so I am not worried about those so much. In my mind neither would cause a no boot situation. BUT, my personal diagnostic experience has been less than useful on pinball machines so far. I know how one thing effects others down the line.

I guess what I am saying is I don't want to mutilate these parts on the board if I am going to end up sending it out anyway.

Let me know what you guys think.

#18 5 years ago

Do you have a logic probe? Check out the basic things that the cpus need to run.

Reset, pin 40, high
External clock, pulse at 1mhz

Swap in known good roms and cpu.

#19 5 years ago

I do not have a logic probe. While I would love the learning experience...board work scares me.

For a couple bucks to have someone that knows what they are doing take care of it is more my style. I am a good parts changer, but that might be about it. I had thought about ordering a new set of ROMs and CPU just to try, but John Wart includes them with his repairs, so I may just go that route or another board guy.

I dunno sometimes I am cheap....and sometimes I know when I am outside of my comfort zone.

#20 5 years ago

That's a nice looking board. No matters what you decide to do on repairs keep in mind that you have testing to do on the P/F for at least Q-7.

#21 5 years ago

Thanks for all the help, I am going to get this board out and see what happens. I know I have some other things to address with this machine, I will have some time waiting on the board to go through the playfield and make sure all is good.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Mope161616:

I do not have a logic probe. While I would love the learning experience...board work scares me.
For a couple bucks to have someone that knows what they are doing take care of it is more my style. I am a good parts changer, but that might be about it. I had thought about ordering a new set of ROMs and CPU just to try, but John Wart includes them with his repairs, so I may just go that route or another board guy.
I dunno sometimes I am cheap....and sometimes I know when I am outside of my comfort zone.

I would send it to a pro if you are not comfortable soldering on the PCB. John Wart will get you fixed up. That is a nice board, once gone through it should be rock solid.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 15.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
$ 12.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
$ 17.00
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 27.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 22.50
$ 54.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Lighted Pinball Mods
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
2,500
Machine - For Sale
San Marcos, CA
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Bokchito, OK
Hey modders!
Your shop name here

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, become a Pinside+ member!