(Topic ID: 252870)

(SOLVED) Right slingshot still not working


By JWitty

12 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 75 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 days ago by vireland
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 75 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 12 days ago

Hey guys, I have a f14 tomcat that’s had problems with right sling. Last year it blew some a transistor and a couple resistors in top right of board. Tried fixing a long time ago but didn’t work so I gave up on it. Well almost a full year since my last time trying. Got the resistors replaced, all checked with meter to make sure they were in range, also replaced two transistors. Plug machine in and no spoke or bad smells. Started it up and reset it, tried it out and still no sling. I did replace the coil and diode on that sling. Fuses all checked out. I have no idea where to go from here. Any ideas?

#2 12 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

I have no idea where to go from here. Any ideas?

Do you have a logic probe?

#3 12 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Do you have a logic probe?

I don’t, but can certainly get one.

#4 12 days ago

It will certainly make this easier to repair.

#5 12 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

It will certainly make this easier to repair.

what should I do first?

#6 12 days ago

Without knowing what troubleshooting has been done I would start with the following.

Check voltage at the coil

If there is voltage, make sure your switches work on that sling

If the switches work, make sure the coil is wired properly.

If there is no voltage, Check continuity from the coil to the driver board

If you have continuity from the coil to the pin, check the solder joints and crimps on the connection associated with that coil.

After that, I would continue to check continuity from that pin to the next, through the entire circuit.

#7 12 days ago

If the coil does NOT work in test mode, on the driver board in the backbox,

Did you check Q71 (TIP 122)?
Did you check Q70 (the 2N4401)?

Those directly drive that coil. If Q70 is bad, I suggest replacing the TIP122 with a TIP102, a heavier-duty transistor.

#8 12 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

If the coil does NOT work in test mode, on the driver board in the backbox,
Did you check Q71 (TIP 122)?
Did you check Q70 (the 2N4401)?
Those directly drive that coil. If Q70 is bad, I suggest replacing the TIP122 with a TIP102, a heavier-duty transistor.

I replaced q70 with a tip102. Also replaced q70 along with all three resistors above q70. Tested continuity throughout the 5 components and was all good.

#9 12 days ago
Quoted from chubtoad13:

Without knowing what troubleshooting has been done I would start with the following.
Check voltage at the coil
If there is voltage, make sure your switches work on that sling
If the switches work, make sure the coil is wired properly.
If there is no voltage, Check continuity from the coil to the driver board
If you have continuity from the coil to the pin, check the solder joints and crimps on the connection associated with that coil.
After that, I would continue to check continuity from that pin to the next, through the entire circuit.

I’ll go through this tomorrow and can report back on anything I might find.

#10 12 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

I replaced q70 with a tip102. Also replaced q70 along with all three resistors above q70. Tested continuity throughout the 5 components and was all good.

You must mean Q71. Q70 is a 2N4401 according to the schematic. And if Q70 is blown out, Q71 will never get the signal to do its job. Did you check the transistor at Q70?

F14-right-sling (resized).jpg
#11 12 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

You must mean Q71. Q70 is a 2N4401 according to the schematic. And if Q70 is blown out, Q71 will never get the signal to do its job. Did you check the transistor at Q70?[quoted image]

Actually, looking at the board again, I replaced q68 and q69. And the respective resistors. I have plenty of tip102 and 2n4401s that I can replace q70 and q71. What does q68 and q69 do? I’ll attach a pic of the board when I just started remove parts. (It’s not pretty)

5AB05EE7-D549-47B1-84D4-328C6768A92D (resized).jpeg
#12 12 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

Actually, looking at the board again, I replaced q68 and q69. And the respective resistors. I have plenty of tip102 and 2n4401s that I can replace q70 and q71. What does q68 and q69 do? I’ll attach a pic of the board when I just started remove parts. (It’s not pretty)[quoted image]

Q69 is the pop bumper.

#13 12 days ago

The pop bumper wont work without R-94.

#14 12 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

The pop bumper wont work without R-94.

This pic was taken while I started removing parts. Everything is back in now.

So...should I go ahead and replace q71 and q70?

#15 12 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

So...should I go ahead and replace q71 and q70?

No, buy a logic probe and test the CPU.

#16 12 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

This pic was taken while I started removing parts. Everything is back in now.
So...should I go ahead and replace q71 and q70?

Do you have a multimeter? Better to test the transistors than start replacing them wholesale. You can test both of them in a couple minutes and verify if they're bad or not.

#17 12 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Do you have a multimeter? Better to test the transistors than start replacing them wholesale. You can test both of them in a couple minutes and verify if they're bad or not.

I do. How do I test them? Will they need to be out of the board?

#18 12 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

I do. How do I test them? Will they need to be out of the board?

Nope. You can test them right in the machine.

Jump to the TO-220 instructions here:

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=general#Testing_a_Transistor.2C_Silicon_Controlled_Rectifier_.28SCR.29_or_Field_Effect_Transistor_.28FET.29

#19 11 days ago

Ok update:

Went to test transistors and appeared bad, so I replaced both q70 and q71. Now the coil is locked on. I replaced with a tip 102 and 2N4401. Maybe bad transistors? This thing just keeps getting weirder.

#20 11 days ago

Also, the tip102 in q71 gets hot.

#21 11 days ago

New doesn't "always" mean good although I suspect something else is at play here. On the top side of your board use a multi meter set on continuity test and test one trace to the next component. Also you might want to see if you inadvertantly created a solder bridge. If so replace the components again.

#22 11 days ago

I'd get a logic probe and follow Grumpy's instructions. He's a great tech, and you will get the game fixed if you follow his directions.

#23 11 days ago

Just to confirm. Tip102 is a npn transistor? I’m trying to test my new transistors and can’t quite figure it out

#24 11 days ago

Ok got a logic probe. What should I do?

#25 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

What should I do

First disconnect J-18 and J-19 from the CPU board. This will stop further damage from happening. Connect the logic probe to the 5 volt and ground test points on the CPU board. Test the probe by touching it to ground, it should light the low led. Then test it for a high by touching the 5 volt test point.

#26 11 days ago

If that checks out, then test all the wires on the connector J-18. Do any read low?

#27 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

Ok update:
Went to test transistors and appeared bad, so I replaced both q70 and q71. Now the coil is locked on. I replaced with a tip 102 and 2N4401. Maybe bad transistors? This thing just keeps getting weirder.

Did you test the coil to make sure it's not shorted? Sounds like maybe the bad coil blew the transistor(s) and now that you've fixed them, it's going to blow them again.

#28 11 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

First disconnect J-18 and J-19 from the CPU board. This will stop further damage from happening. Connect the logic probe to the 5 volt and ground test points on the CPU board. Test the probe by touching it to ground, it should light the low led. Then test it for a high by touching the 5 volt test point.

Got those disconnected. Where is the 5 volt and ground test points?

#29 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

I did replace the coil and diode on that sling

Quoted from vireland:

Did you test the coil to make sure it's not shorted? Sounds like maybe the bad coil blew the transistor(s) and now that you've fixed them, it's going to blow them again.

#30 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

Where is the 5 volt and ground test points?

f (resized).PNG
#31 11 days ago

Also, did you replace the resistor at R101 or was that already done? It's the right value, but way overkill on the resistor size. Looks goofy.

#32 11 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

First disconnect J-18 and J-19 from the CPU board. This will stop further damage from happening. Connect the logic probe to the 5 volt and ground test points on the CPU board. Test the probe by touching it to ground, it should light the low led. Then test it for a high by touching the 5 volt test point.

Ok. Green lights when I touch ground, red when I touch 5v.

Quoted from GRUMPY:

If that checks out, then test all the wires on the connector J-18. Do any read low?

Going from top pin to bottom, I got red,red,red,red,green,green,red,red.

#33 11 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Also, did you replace the resistor at R101 or was that already done? It's the right value, but way overkill on the resistor size. Looks goofy.

Yes lol. Got that replaced

#34 11 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Did you test the coil to make sure it's not shorted? Sounds like maybe the bad coil blew the transistor(s) and now that you've fixed them, it's going to blow them again.

yes. New coil, tested at 4.2 ohms. New diode. Also checked good.

#35 11 days ago

Does that Info I gave help at all? Is there anything else I can test?

#36 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

Does that Info I gave help at all? Is there anything else I can test?

Connector J18-3 is the switch for the (special solenoid #2) Right sling
Connector J19-4 is the solenoid drive for the(special solenoid #2) right sling

I'm assuming Grumpy is checking to see if the switch circuit isn't working properly on the board, but you'll have to wait until he replies to continue with his diagnostic flow.

#37 11 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Connector J18-3 is the switch for the (special solenoid #2) Right sling
Connector J19-4 is the solenoid drive for the(special solenoid #2) right sling
I'm assuming Grumpy is checking to see if the switch circuit isn't working properly on the board, but you'll have to wait until he replies to continue with his diagnostic flow.

While waiting for grumpy, I’ve been going around that right upper area with the probe. It’s odd, when testing q68 and 72, I get (from left to right) green green red. On q70 I get nothing on all legs. When I take out u45, this happens on q68 and 72, I get nothing on all three legs. I’m getting curious if that 14pin chip or whatever it is in u45 is bad. Thankfully it’s in a socket so it’s easy to remove to test if there’s a way I can do that. I’ll wait for grumpy to get back to me first before starting any conclusions.

#38 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

I got red,red,red,red,green,green,red,red.

The two green lights are grounds. The switches are stuck closed or the wire is shorted to ground.

#39 11 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

The two green lights are grounds. The switches are stuck closed or the wire is shorted to ground.

So should all of them be red then?

#40 11 days ago

It looks like the 2 low (green) signals were from the NC pins, so that should be fine. With the game on and in attract mode, test U-45 pins 4, 5 and 6. Let me know what you get.

#41 11 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

It looks like the 2 low (green) signals were from the NC pins, so that should be fine. With the game on and in attract mode, test U-45 pins 4, 5 and 6. Let me know what you get.

Just to make sure, are you talking about on the top side of u45 from left to right?

#42 11 days ago

You start at the notch of the chip and count in a counter clockwise direction.

pasted_image (resized).png
#43 11 days ago

Ok so starting from that notch and going counter clockwise, 4 nothing, 5 red, 6 nothing.

#44 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

4 nothing, 5 red, 6 nothing.

For other people following along you should say pin 5 high. Now most TTL chips are designed to duel outputs, a high or a low and not a in between signal. So you need to replace U-45 with a new chip and then we need to retest everything before connecting the coils again. Let me know when you get a new chip like this.

https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=7402

#45 11 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

For other people following along you should say pin 5 high. Now most TTL chips are designed to duel outputs, a high or a low and not a in between signal. So you need to replace U-45 with a new chip and then we need to retest everything before connecting the coils again. Let me know when you get a new chip like this.
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=7402

will do. Is there a part number besides 7402? I get my stuff from digikey usually.

#46 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

will do. Is there a part number besides 7402? I get my stuff from digikey usually.

Make sure you socket it when you replace it. That way it's easy if it ever needs to be replaced again. No de-soldering.

(you break off as many pins as you need with these)

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/aries-electronics/40-0518-10/A460-ND/261892

#47 11 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

Make sure you socket it when you replace it. That way it's easy if it ever needs to be replaced again. No de-soldering.
(you break off as many pins as you need with these)
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/aries-electronics/40-0518-10/A460-ND/261892

It actually has a socket on it already thankfully. But I would have definitely done that if it didn’t already.

#49 11 days ago

Alright great that was the one I found just wanted to make sure it was the same thing.
Is there anything else you guys can think of that I should get now while I’m putting in an order?

#50 11 days ago
Quoted from JWitty:

It actually has a socket on it already thankfully. But I would have definitely done that if it didn’t already.

Where are you? If you have a good electronics store, you might be able to walk in and just buy one rather than waiting on digikey and paying $8 to ship a $2 part.

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