I'm not sure who actually pays 1st Dibs prices, I guess those too wealthy to look anywhere else. I'm into mid century furniture and people will reference 1st Dibs prices in their ads a lot "this chair is listed for $3000 here so $2000 is a steal", annoying.

Equally ridiculous are the people that upon playing your collection, offer to give you $50-$100 for, oh, that nice Star Trek Next Generation machine they played for a couple hours. Shocked are they when they find out that pinball machines cost as much as they do (although not as much as the prices cited above)

The best offer was $25 for an AFM. Yeah, sure, all day. They actually got mad when I said no.

Tell them to check ebay...

People used to routinely pay 5K+ for classic EM's such as Captain Fantastic and Wizard out of the shop in Caesar's Palace in Vegas. These prices are high for us, but for antique buyers they do no appear to be enough to scare them off.

I've been in this hobby a long time and prices are ridiculously high right now, even among the pinball market. I mean, it was one thing back in the early 90's when prices were so cheap, but it's been the last five years or so where prices have really sky rocketed. A lot of SS machines that were $800-$1200 five years ago are now well over $3000 now, it's just really odd. It's hard to find any super nice machines for under $1,500 nowadays, that's even including games like Williams Big Ben, Jubilee, and Triple Action etc, games that were $400-$600 five years ago, and those were super clean examples.

Supply and demand. In the 90's/early 2000's there was no demand and tons of supply. Interest in the hobby has grown steadily until it really blew up a few years ago. Games became a part of someone's collection or part of a barcade type business and the supply of the "classics" dried up and prices have risen accordingly. Overall demand is way up and has lifted the prices of all games.

Compared to other hobbies that are based on nostalgia, ours hasn't risen as dramatically as something like classic cars.

It's not just the pinball market. My other hobby is film props & costumes, and those prices have risen dramatically too.

Yes, 21 grand for DE StarWars is a lot but understandable. Didn't you notice... "This piece can be returned within 3 days"

Who else is offering a return policy on pinball machines?

Yeah,

I've noticed some crazy prices at the farmers market too.

Here in the UK prices have shot up too, a decent machine is like £3000 on ebay (with better games in the £4/5,000 range) where as even up to a few years ago you could get a good 1980's or 1990's game for £500-£1000.

Also there seems to be a lot less of them for sale.

come on...someone really offered you 25 for your AFM? If so, that's pretty darn funny.

I would love more details on this. I mean, when you say "mad", how mad? They honestly thought it was worth less than that and they were offering to pay above fair value?

It's people that genuinely just didn't have a clue. Friend of friends, open party type thing. Who also ran around pressing 4 player games and chimp flipping just like poor children behavior at shows.... but the guy was 40.

The $25 was the most extreme. People that never thought about owning a machine so they have no clue. Xbox game=$60 and that's "new" so something old must be cheaper... right? Most of the would-be buyers were in the $100-$125 range as a "fair" price. Delivered, set up, and maintenance included forever.

The new people who come in between 20-25 are a lot more respectful and mindful of the rules - I didn't have to teach them anything about how to not start a 4 player game and run around like it's closing time or something.

I’m pretty sure it’s less of supply and demand and more of a way to pay for “new in box titles”. So the people that had pins circa 5-10+ years ago seem to be controlling the prices and most guys just set their prices based on the last 10 they saw regardless of title or condition. And of course the guys that just drive around, somehow finding games for cheap and selling them for a grand more than they paid a day or less later. If I didn’t have a full time job, I’d be doing the same thing!

Seller: Well I just saw a near mint AFM for $8k and a completely restored Taxi posted for $4k... so obviously my players condition HS (which really needs a new playfield or hardtop) is worth at least $3,800 because I just installed new chrome legs for $80 from Marco. And I used new bolts too!

Since one of the chief reasons to sell a machine is typically to buy another, it’s really the influx of several (Not all) great new games flooding onto the market. Owners are trying to finance the cost somehow and sometimes also need the physical space. I think $4000 is out of reach for most people (and unrealistic for most titles given the immediate and continuous maintenance needs). Especially when you can finance a brand new one (sometimes with super low interest) for an additional $1,500 more with a short warranty. That’s a new in box Pro model with no farts/booze smells, scratched glass, or questionable mods. So when the high priced 10+ year old machines are being compared to the one in the new Stern/JJP/SP from the factory are being compared... well, I really think the high priced old titles are just going to increase new sales from manufacturers. Which is probably a good thing because it keeps new titles coming and eventually will level out the prices on all of them.

The pendulum swings both ways in marketing and sales. I predict in the next 2 years the prices will drop for all but maybe 20 super desirable titles from the mid 80’s to early 00’s. At that time, EMs will drop to $400-$500, lame SS titles will be below $1,400 in good/average condition, and highly desirable titles remaining close to where they are now. Might even see the “new” titles from today dropping rather fast and only the well laid out titles holding value.

Or maybe not

You and every single person in your exact same time frame (early into entering the hobby) has predicted this exact same thing for the last 20 years... There are over 100 threads about it on Pinside. It's well beyond the point of nonsense.

"The economy is going to tank and all prices will fall." Average machines values actually increased quite a bit from 2007-2012...

When Stern was barely open and couldn't sell a game for 3 grand, people said the same thing.
When games were NIB at 3499.99 and they were not selling for Stern, people said the same thing.
When games were NIB at 4499.99 and they were selling better, people said the same thing.
Now, people are saying the same thing.

There are so many factors that you are not considering regarding the actual "price" of any given item. Condition, location, distance, shipping, rarity, all affect the asking or sale "price", quite dramatically.

Most pinball purists actually hope what you are predicting DOES happen. Because if it does, then there will be some great deals for the true fans who are actually buying machines so that they can play pinball. Pinball is so many different things to so many in this community that you can NEVER say for certain that anything is going to happen, so just stop. Whatever happens happens and given the diversity of the hobby, no one event or person has so much influence that it will effect the market more than a hill of beans.

my guess:

prices dropped in the early 00s. then they probably rose from like 2002 to ~2007/8, they might have dropped a bit or stagnated until ~2010 when they started to rise again.

Not trying to offend or predict the future economy. Just sharing my opinion on an existing thread.

It's a theory that has existed since people declared 3k for a Twilight Zone or Addams Family is way too much money. Hope in one hand...

I agree with much of what you said. Pinball pricing is one of the favorite subjects people love to discuss. There are those who don't want any discussion, however, and will attempt to berate you into silence with "Its all been discussed before, no need to bring it up again" or " go to this old thread. Not certain why they feel so triggered when it comes up, its obvious people want to talk pricing trends.
Perhaps the next new thread that does come up concerning pricing they can blow out of it and keep quiet so everyone can have at it.

There is nothing to discuss unless you can predict the future. No one wants to discuss the history of pinball pricing (facts), they mostly want to make wild predictions of what's to come (not possible). You see the difference? You can make whatever predictions you want about what game is next or what you want to see Stern make, or what you want the prices of games to be, but no one has any control over those things. Discuss whatever you want, you must enjoy hearing people babble. There is no anger or bad will in my posts, it's just been discussed so many times, and beaten and beaten and beaten into the threads on Pinside.

Anyone paying attention to the 1970-1990 video game market? Major Havoc $8000, Chiller $4500, Ice Cold Beer $3500, and most recently an Atari Skydiver from 1978 for $7500 in unrestored condition.

These are games that the average person cannot maintain properly and have unobtanium parts (mostly the monitors).

The funny thing is that I think the pin/video/home/car/boat/etc market has some legs yet. A 30k stock market is making a lot of people "Rich" or at least they think they are. Taking out 95% loans on homes they don't need to impress people they don't even know with the dream that a 100k stock market will be their retirement.

I just bought my last few machines. I'm going to enjoy what I have and stack cash from here on out. Deals are coming.

So why can't you and several others just butt out and let idiots hash it over instead of repeating this tired mantra? We get it, it irritates certain people, stop trying to squelch free discussion through derision.

Must be nice to be able to walk up and buy pinball machines at the farmers market!

I think all but the really best old games will plummet.
Many new titles coming out with much more advanced ruleset and theme integration.

There is zero appeal in old and simple titles unless you have a barn full of old crap games.

A modern collector with room for 2-8 titles will have almost zero interest in having fishtales or such in their home-collection, esp if they are overpriced.

Also over time, you may feel prices going up, but honestly, compare to other real values as land or gold, and you will soon realise it s not prices going up, its money going down.

I have actually noticed cheaper games going up the most lately. I think newer collectors are more comfortable paying 2k or less to get into the hobby than 10k for a NIB.

EMS used to be 100 bucks, now everyone wants 400 for non working ones...and they are selling.
Early ss pins that used to be 200-300 are now 1k and more.

Absolutely. The whitewater, fishtales, no good gofers etc are still nice start up pins, but nobody will buy them if the cost are to high.
With old titles going for 8k, i assume you mean TZ, TOM and the likes?
I dont think it´s new collectors picking up thoose. It´s large collectors, just missing that one rare and exclusive pin.

On lower grade pins going up abit:

I´ve noticed the same over here. There was recently here in sweden a diner for 3.5k, but if you look at them and their lack of sound, depth etc, they are seriously lacking. They honestly dont belong in that price range, but i think a few will go high, but that´s for some crazy large size collector.

What´s interesting to this is also how semi to semi modern game will fare. What will happen to mediocre early spike titles price wise?

As i said before, the best titles will keep and if keept well maintain even gain in price. But i wouldn´t be surprised to se a bk-pro go for under 2k in two years.

Not Under 2K, but a couple of Stern Titles could be in the $3XXX, in that period. Munsters for sure. Aerosmith could be there. Star Trek can already dip to $3900.

Thunderbirds will be a $1500 game by then.

Chances are the same folks who predict lower prices in the future “hope” or “wish” prices will go down so they can buy more pins because they enjoy pinball. In reality if they have these thoughts that means thousands of folks wouldn’t mind prices lowering significantly also so they can buy more also, which would mean, well, prices would remain stable.

Pinball prices will go lower when the folks who are predicting prices will go down become a large group and are also quitting pinball because they don’t care about it any more and are moving on to other things.

So how many of the lower price prediction people are getting out of pinball and not buying more if prices drop?

In my neck of the woods its 1000 or more. Any non-desirable Title. Not sure they are selling though. Irritating. One Flipper actually purchased a Darling at 300 and is trying to flip it for 1200. Another a 300 Boomerang went up to 1350. Guess they didn't do their research.

KLOV. A skydiver just sold for $7500. The seller put it for sale as "make me an offer". He had multiple offers above $5k. I thought $3k would be max.

The ice cold beer actually just sold for $3800 there as well.

Looks like we got a good old fashioned price bubble thread on our hands boys!

Mister mo, aren't you kind of a bottom feeder? I'm casting ZERO shade here, as when I was your age I was also hunting for the cheapest, rattiest shit I could get. But I also know when you aren't buying the expensive stuff you really aren't keyed into it either.

A $3900 star trek without flood damage would last about 10 seconds here. That's simply not the reality, the bubble has yet to burst, and the state of our union remains strong.

I'm dying for a $3,900 Aerosmith. Folks, please PM if you have one of these and are within 3 hours of NYC.

Oh, none taken friend. I am a cheap bastard, this has been well documented - and it’s something I’m proud of. Nothing to do with my age, just extremely cheap. Gonna send you a DM, you’ll have a laugh about just how cheap.

A few examples I can share with everyone;

I once negotiated the price of a lap dance,

I only buy Peanut Butter on sale, and refuse to pay more than 9 cents an ounce,

Most of my clothing is clearance or factory rejected, and then I fix it myself.

REGARDLESS:

Star Trek - HUO examples have sold here on the site for $4,100. I’ve seen a routed example for $3,900 before on Craigslist some time ago.

If anyone has a $3,800 Aerosmith, send me a message, and I’ll knock ya down to $3,775.

I was in Orlando, on business. It was a Thursday. 2pm. She approached me, there were five girls there, and two coworkers and I. It ended up being 15% cheaper than her asking, and I bought her a drink. I only even entertained such a thing because I felt bad it was so empty in there. Didn’t wanna be in the place to begin with.

I’m cheap, not horrible.

Ladies, gentleman, and those that are in between - I’d like to introduce you to a little something called *SATIRE.*

The real question is, did you pay exact amount or have to ask for change?

She got everything that was in my wallet. Why it came to 15% off.

So she knew exactly what she was doing

When it comes to extremely rare games it depends on whether someone *actually* cares, not just what they say.

For example, as part of a group I got a large quantity of 25" Medium Resolution monitors that were drop in replacements for the Star Wars Cockpit Amplifone.
They had burn-in and needed a yoke swap, but still worked just fine.
I had them up for sale for $20 each, after a couple weeks I offered them for free, and a couple weeks later I paid to have them recycled.

Another example, I had a Space Fury cabinet (good shape converted original that was gutted, no tube or boards) which I offered for free.
Nobody wanted the cabinet, so after a few weeks I demolished it.

It sucks good stuff sometimes goes to waste, but even if one of some game sells for big money doesn't mean there's more demand out there.

I'm glad to see the hobby doing well; but the more reliable measure is what the common games sell for rather than the rare ones.