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(Topic ID: 256899)

Rick & Morty Pinball from Spooky!


By MEuRaH

12 months ago



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  • 12,233 posts
  • 776 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by DanQverymuch
  • Topic is favorited by 237 Pinsiders

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-6
#11701 8 months ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

I listen to Kaneda, and value his opinions. But fair enough.

Somehow people seem to gloss over some words. I specifically said “for a review”

The guy does not really play pinball. He is on the opposite end of the spectrum for sort of player whose game play opinion I would value at all. And yes, anyone that takes Kaneda’s opinion on any game as worthwhile is dumb as a rock in my book.

The guy is shock jock entertainer, and not any actual value of a critical or constructive review.

This is demonstrated even further by his review after playing a handful of games. The little value that would come from his review is the perspective of a non-player.

Game is on the challenging aide and I would never expect someone with his limited skill to like it or be able to get a handle on it in a single session where he played 5-10 games.

#11702 8 months ago
Quoted from Manic:

I think you'll be happy then. It's been here at Lyman's in DC for 2 or three weeks and while the upper loop is no "gimme" shot it's quite doable and rewarding if you can do a couple multiple loops (best I could do). You can do a backhand combo to the right ramp... then to the left ramp... then to the loop and then *maybe* to the garage. lol For me none of that was a given except maybe right ramp to left ramp
I did get to watch players better than myself finishing modes and generally kicking my ass. I was glad to see that as it proved my low scores were MY fault and not the machine. For a home game it seems just right - for casuals on location it may be a little too unforgiving. Maybe.
If anybody states the upper loop shot has only a 10% completion rate that would indeed be bullshit. I don't think they had tried to open the lane by loosening the PF screws and re-positioning also. A 10% rate would also contradict all the people that have played the machine in the last few weeks and have enjoyed it. Still I'm hoping Kanada can scare some early people into dumping or bailing on their spots so we all can move up the list. Do it K-man!
I can't listen to *any* noisy, deliberately opinionated shows on *anything* so I'll have to let you guys tell me if he can kick up a good scare

I think home owners have been more forgiving with their percentages for shots, which makes sense given the amount of games played. But location players, myself included, have echoed some of those upper flipper shots, not adjusted, are definitely a bit beyond challenging.

Kaneda didn't really state anything people on site, weren't saying, in most ways. Good or bad.

10
#11703 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Somehow people seem to gloss over some words. I specifically said “for a review”
The guy does not really play pinball. He is on the opposite end of the spectrum for sort of player whose game play opinion I would value at all. And yes, anyone that takes Kaneda’s opinion on any game as worthwhile is dumb as a rock in my book.
The guy is shock jock entertainer, and not any actual value of a critical or constructive review.
This is demonstrated even further by his review after playing a handful of games. The little value that would come from his review is the perspective of a non-player.
Game is on the challenging aide and I would never expect someone with his limited skill to like it or be able to get a handle on it in a single session where he played 5-10 games.

Yes, I read. but okay, please let me clarify... I listen to Kaneda, and value his opinions (which includes reviews of games, marketing strategy, and other). I also enjoy the Rick and Morty pin quite a bit.

Sure, I don't agree with everything he says, and his every review or take on a game. But like I said, I value his opinions. Games shouldn't just be made for the pinball obsessed or competitive players, so you really can't say there is only one dimension or lens to review a game through. Accessibility is important. Also, the guy knows his shit when it comes to marketing and communications... There is a lot of subtlety, research, data and strategy that's involved, and Kaneda gets it.

whysnow there have been many things you've written and shared that contribute to the pinball community too. I'm sure you mean well, I just disagree with your carte blanche statements.

-2
#11704 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Somehow people seem to gloss over some words. I specifically said “for a review”
The guy does not really play pinball. He is on the opposite end of the spectrum for sort of player whose game play opinion I would value at all. And yes, anyone that takes Kaneda’s opinion on any game as worthwhile is dumb as a rock in my book.
The guy is shock jock entertainer, and not any actual value of a critical or constructive review.
This is demonstrated even further by his review after playing a handful of games. The little value that would come from his review is the perspective of a non-player.
Game is on the challenging aide and I would never expect someone with his limited skill to like it or be able to get a handle on it in a single session where he played 5-10 games.

Something something spectrum

#11705 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Somehow people seem to gloss over some words. I specifically said “for a review”
The guy does not really play pinball. He is on the opposite end of the spectrum for sort of player whose game play opinion I would value at all. And yes, anyone that takes Kaneda’s opinion on any game as worthwhile is dumb as a rock in my book.
The guy is shock jock entertainer, and not any actual value of a critical or constructive review.
This is demonstrated even further by his review after playing a handful of games. The little value that would come from his review is the perspective of a non-player.
Game is on the challenging aide and I would never expect someone with his limited skill to like it or be able to get a handle on it in a single session where he played 5-10 games.

I think if you're someone that doesn't play a lot of pinball and just like looking at them or collecting them (which is the majority of the market) than his reviews might have some merit, but if you're a serious player I think you have to take his reviews with a grain of salt.

I've played a bunch of R&M on route and I'd agree that it's a game geared to the more serious players. It's pretty tough and I think if you don't have decent skills you aren't going to enjoy it as much as games with an easier fan layout. This is totally fine since they only are making 750 of them. It's not necessarily a game made for the masses.

#11707 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

no idea what foam is? maybe it fell off from somewhere else.
A simple bend of trough scoop that feeds the shooter lane along with a tweak to coil power should tune you in just fine.
I personally found a small bend to help direct ball into lane (instead of bounce back into through) combined with a step up 2 was the best answer for me.

"fell off from somewhere?" - lol...

shooter (resized).jpg

You've not listened to what the problem was... the ball was getting to the shooter lane, it would sit on this foam and wouldn't have the freedom to break away. I believe it was leaning between the trough bottom lip and the foam. So first question was 'why is this foam here?' -- what's its purpose... because it was just making things worse for us.

It hasn't done it in the last two days while I've played though. So it's wearing in or something...

I still don't understand why you'd put foam that breaks down quite easily in literally the spot every single ball hits.

#11708 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

"fell off from somewhere?" - lol...
[quoted image]
You've not listened to what the problem was... the ball was getting to the shooter lane, it would sit on this foam and wouldn't have the freedom to break away. I believe it was leaning between the trough bottom lip and the foam. So first question was 'why is this foam here?' -- what's its purpose... because it was just making things worse for us.
It hasn't done it in the last two days while I've played though. So it's wearing it, or something...
I still don't understand why you'd put foam that breaks down quite easily in literally the spot every single ball hits.

dont think our route game has that?

I would guess it was intended to help direct away from falling back in trough?

Just remove it if it is causing issue for you.

I am not sure why this is a tough adjustment to make. If you are getting a ball hang up, then make a small adjustment and should be golden.

#11709 8 months ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Yes, I read. but okay, please let me clarify... I listen to Kaneda, and value his opinions (which includes reviews of games, marketing strategy, and other). I also enjoy the Rick and Morty pin quite a bit.
Sure, I don't agree with everything he says, and his every review or take on a game. But like I said, I value his opinions. Games shouldn't just be made for the pinball obsessed or competitive players, so you really can't say there is only one dimension or lens to review a game through. Accessibility is important. Also, the guy knows his shit when it comes to marketing and communications... There is a lot of subtlety, research, data and strategy that's involved, and Kaneda gets it.
whysnow there have been many things you've written and shared that contribute to the pinball community too. I'm sure you mean well, I just disagree with your carte blanche statements.

all are entitled to opinions. It is what makes this passion filled hobby so fun.

#11710 8 months ago

Some of the nice touches they did do in the game...

They put foam under the lockbar on the sides so the lockbar doesn't wear the siderails (I often do the same with simple mylar on powdercoated games)
IMG_3918 copy (resized).jpg

They also put special tape+foam packing materials where the head meets the siderails that was under the other packaging materials. They really do a nice job protecting the game in its cocoon. I did miss the strap that runs front to back tho (that makes it easy to setup the game with head secured). They opt to shrinkwrap the game the full length of the cabinet (and again in another layer to secure the head). So it requires some selective shrinkwrap removal to get to the leg mount locations before you could remove the full shrinkwrap.

#11711 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I would guess it was intended to help direct away from falling back in trough?

Just remove it if it is causing issue for you.

I am not sure why this is a tough adjustment to make. If you are getting a ball hang up, then make a small adjustment and should be golden.

That was the reason for ASKING SPOOKY about it... You don't read very well.

12
#11712 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I would never expect someone with his limited skill to like it or be able to get a handle on it in a single session where he played 5-10 games.

tell us, old wise-one...

what skill level and number of plays would you require, to meet your expectations for someone liking it, or "getting a handle" on it?

#11713 8 months ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

tell us, old wise-one...
what skill level and number of plays would you require, to meet your expectations of someone liking it, or "getting a handle" on it?

Hilton's reaction to Kaneda is what I never get.

Kaneda is the authority.....on HIS opinion. Just as we all are.

And impressions from players of all skill levels have merit. Casual players may be turned off. Hardcore the opposite, regarding hearing about these kinds of shots. So be it. All input has value.

#11714 8 months ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

tell us, old wise-one...
what skill level and number of plays would you require, to meet your expectations for someone liking it, or "getting a handle" on it?

JMHO

For anyone's opinion on a game to have any real value, I think you need a few sessions of play (ideally on more than a single early example), and probably good to play 20 games at absolute minimum. 3 sessions of at least 10 games each session is my norm before I feel I have given a game a chance from a player review perspective.

Sure you can give a first impression, but if you are trying to give an actual review then I think you own it to yourself, the designer, and the company that makes the game to actually put some time in. There are many games I really disliked on the first session and after a handful plays that are now top 20 games for me personally.

It often takes at least 2 sessions to really start finding shots, understanding ruleset, and the ability to be fully immersed in a modern game (they have lots going on)

#11715 8 months ago
Quoted from wesman:

Hilton's reaction to Kaneda is what I never get.
Kaneda is the authority.....on HIS opinion. Just as we all are.
And impressions from players of all skill levels have merit. Casual players may be turned off. Hardcore the opposite, regarding hearing about these kinds of shots. So be it. All input has value.

Because you gloss over the part where the person overvalues their own opinion or overstate's its scope.

Each person is entitled to their opinion - but not all people's opinions are equal. That's why it's important to consider the source, not just the words.

#11716 8 months ago
Quoted from FYMF:

Something something spectrum

odd thing to try and make an insult?

#11717 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Because you gloss over the part where the person overvalues their own opinion or overstate's its scope.
Each person is entitled to their opinion - but not all people's opinions are equal. That's why it's important to consider the source, not just the words.

I think we all somewhat saw his reaction coming. Which like you say, and Hilton above...is just that. Not a review, a reaction. And yeah.....we socially are in this rut where we thrive for quick social stimuli, and often overlook more dense views.

I take his view with a grain, for sure, based solely on his take where he never really allowed Wonka to mature, which it did, and Pirates was framed and never given much of a chance past again, initial reactions.

If it bleeds, it leads baby!

#11718 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

"fell off from somewhere?" - lol...
[quoted image]
I still don't understand why you'd put foam that breaks down quite easily in literally the spot every single ball hits.

Mine has this. It’s never caused any problems for me. We have about 275 games on it so far.

-6
#11719 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Anyone that listens to him for a review of a game is a moron. He does not play pinball, really own them (aside from the need to show them off as a trophy), has zero idea on how to do even basic maintainence, and is a really bad player.
Beyond “grain of salt”, Thales his review as the reality of what he is, a professional hype man and flipper that spends more time speculating on the next game rather than actually learning a few basic skills and playing pinball.
I know many find him entertaining but any review on game play from his is like believing what your weather man tells you about the stock market.

shenada should get his early pin order cancelled. spooky should tell him to F off.
he really was focusing too much on 2 hard shots and saying spooky needs more help designing pins.

#11720 8 months ago
Quoted from robotron:

shenada should get his early pin order cancelled. spooky should tell him to F off.
he really was focusing too much on 2 hard shots and saying spooky needs more help designing pins.

Exactly. More help to make games like every other fan layout on the market. Spooky are niche. This sort of design comes with the territory.

#11721 8 months ago

My TNA has this foam too. No issues here. Must be a Spooky thing because I never thought anything of it.

20200314_190057 (resized).jpg
#11722 8 months ago

Special K is a terrible player. He likes talking about pins more than playing them. His reviews hold absolutely no weight. He’s better off sticking with what he is good at... marketing manufactured pinball drama.

14
#11723 8 months ago

I don’t listen to kenafa b/c I’ve been doing this longer and he is dumb

#11724 8 months ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

My TNA has this foam too. No issues here. Must be a Spooky thing because I never thought anything of it.[quoted image]

Hmm.

So is it Spooky's version of a Cliffy Shooter Eject Guard.....?

#11725 8 months ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

I’ve been dining

We are about to. Pizza!

#11726 8 months ago

I would love to see what the made percentage of loops are on my Shadow by someone that hasn’t played it before. It would be very low, it’s low even for me and I’m good at it, it’s part of what makes the game great, along with the other low percentage mode start shot. I expect that to be comparable on R&M. Most casual players that play the game at my house don’t even realize there is an upper flipper there and even when I remind them they forget to flip it most of the time. They don’t even know the loop shot exists! Yet they still really enjoy the game.

I think it is a mistake to look at a game with a knowledgeable pinball person’s critical perspective and try to say that a casual player is going to not like something or be frustrated. They are enjoying the game on a different level and are unlikely to be turned off by a hard shot that they aren’t even aware of as being hard, they are just trying to keep the ball out of the trough. They tend to be most impressed by the theme integration, toys, lights and music, and this game looks like it is a home run on three of the four.

For an experienced player, these more difficult shots are great and make a game like the Shadow what it is, known for being a player’s game that never gets old because it can never be truly mastered by most people. It keeps the game from getting boring. I find that I get bored with fan layouts the fastest, so I think this will be the perfect layout for me as a home owner that plans on keeping the game forever. So Kaneda’s review makes me even more excited for the game!

#11727 8 months ago
Quoted from ziz:

I would love to see what the made percentage of loops are on my Shadow by someone that hasn’t played it before. It would be very low, it’s low even for me and I’m good at it, it’s part of what makes the game great, along with the other low percentage mode start shot. I expect that to be comparable on R&M. Most casual players that play the game at my house don’t even realize there is an upper flipper there and even when I remind them they forget to flip it most of the time. They don’t even know the loop shot exists! Yet they still really enjoy the game.
I think it is a mistake to look at a game with a knowledgeable pinball person’s critical perspective and try to say that a casual player is going to not like something or be frustrated. They are enjoying the game on a different level and are unlikely to be turned off by a hard shot that they aren’t even aware of as being hard, they are just trying to keep the ball out of the trough. They tend to be most impressed by the theme integration, toys, lights and music, and this game looks like it is a home run on three of the four.
For an experienced player, these more difficult shots are great and make a game like the Shadow what it is, known for being a player’s game that never gets old because it can never be truly mastered by most people. It keeps the game from getting boring. I find that I get bored with fan layouts the fastest, so I think this will be the perfect layout for me as a home owner that plans on keeping the game forever. So Kaneda’s review makes me even more excited for the game!

I was thinking this too....

If there are 1 or 2 legitimately tricky shots, those will be easier as time goes by, but never truly easy.

So yeah, for home collection purposes, that gives it legs, and for competition surely as well!

I just set up my Hobbit, and the shot design are reverse. Basically all fairly easy.

Variety is the spice of life, and all that jazz!

#11728 8 months ago
Quoted from FYMF:

You clearly dont own a Stranger Things lol

I actually own three pros.. epoxied the lock post, and fixed the gate and ball lock release on all three.

#11729 8 months ago
Quoted from FatPanda:

My TNA has this foam too. No issues here. Must be a Spooky thing because I never thought anything of it.[quoted image]

Interesting find - thx for that. I don't remember seeing it on the TNAs that were local - but it also was never a problem... so I can't say I remember looking there!

#11730 8 months ago

I’m really looking forward to this game being tough. ACNC is a ball buster and I can’t get enough of it. The next pin I get will probably be Iron Man so my murderers row will be IM, R&M, ACNC, Tron, GOT all in a row. I’m a very average player too. Bring the pain!

#11731 8 months ago

About the right flipper shots, there have been some legit good players that struggle making them. Jack Danger struggled with those shots. It does seem like a sorta unnecessarily difficulty. But this is tricky to say since people are getting their expensive coveted game and don't want anything negative being said about it so darn soon.

#11732 8 months ago
Quoted from ziz:

They are enjoying the game on a different level and are unlikely to be turned off by a hard shot that they aren’t even aware of as being hard, they are just trying to keep the ball out of the trough. They tend to be most impressed by the theme integration, toys, lights and music, and this game looks like it is a home run on three of the four.

But those players are still trying to PLAY the game - not just watch it. They may not understand how/why everything is happening.. but they still want to be entertained and get SATISFACTION from their play.. and hopefully a feeling to want to try again.

They want to see the game dance... they want to see things happen.. They want to achieve some payoff, even if it's something 'easy' to more advanced players.

If they play a game and nothing happens... they will quickly bore of it. Why play this, when that one over there I can make the dinosaur move! Or I can get multiball on that one.. etc

This is why you heard lingo from Stern in recent titles like "moving XYZ closer to the start button" - They are referring to the concept of how likely a player is going to experience something. It's why on JP2 they changed the feed t-rex MB start... because the game lacked a multiball experience 'close to the start button' that novice players could experience.

No one wants to flail around and have nothing exciting happen. Designers do things to make sure those novice players still have a shot to make things happen. Like having a mode start qualified at the start of a game, or really easy.. or why games like DE had multiball on ball three.. They were all things trying to make the game accessible to novice players so they could still get something interesting and fun out of the game.

This is where design is an art... to make a game accessible enough to a novice player so they can see it dance and get hooked... while still making it challenging enough to sustain play... and ensure better players get an experience they will enjoy as well. It takes a balance that is difficult to do without stupid obvious choices like spotting everything, or simply making progression harder.

Iron Maiden is an amazing example of how they made a game easy enough for the novice (shoot the middle!) that still challenges great players within the very same rules and game play.

All that said.. getting back to RaM... novices need to have enough opportunity to do and see things that will get them interested. They don't need to make every shot... but if everything were behind one of those impossible shots.. you'd have a problem. Right now, players can make RaM dance without the two difficult spinner and garage shots. But they do need to make one ramp and hit the scoop. If you don't do that... the game doesn't open up much. You could flail at the middle and probably get horseshoe locks. That's probably what they would be drawn to. But the upper flipper will likely be more a negative than a positive for them.

#11733 8 months ago
Quoted from ziz:

I would love to see what the made percentage of loops are on my Shadow by someone that hasn’t played it before. It would be very low, it’s low even for me and I’m good at it, it’s part of what makes the game great, along with the other low percentage mode start shot. I expect that to be comparable on R&M. Most casual players that play the game at my house don’t even realize there is an upper flipper there and even when I remind them they forget to flip it most of the time. They don’t even know the loop shot exists! Yet they still really enjoy the game.
I think it is a mistake to look at a game with a knowledgeable pinball person’s critical perspective and try to say that a casual player is going to not like something or be frustrated. They are enjoying the game on a different level and are unlikely to be turned off by a hard shot that they aren’t even aware of as being hard, they are just trying to keep the ball out of the trough. They tend to be most impressed by the theme integration, toys, lights and music, and this game looks like it is a home run on three of the four.
For an experienced player, these more difficult shots are great and make a game like the Shadow what it is, known for being a player’s game that never gets old because it can never be truly mastered by most people. It keeps the game from getting boring. I find that I get bored with fan layouts the fastest, so I think this will be the perfect layout for me as a home owner that plans on keeping the game forever. So Kaneda’s review makes me even more excited for the game!

Great comparison with The Shadow. That happens to be my favorite game of the 90's. I think the upper right flipper shots on Shadow are also difficult. I'd say that Shadow loops on my game are similar difficulty to R&M loops, and hitting the Kahn saucer is comparable to the garage shot. I love both games and could see R&M being my modern day favorite. I like the difficulty and that it doesn't feel conventional to play.

#11734 8 months ago
Quoted from MikeS:

Great comparison with The Shadow. That happens to be my favorite game of the 90's. I think the upper right flipper shots on Shadow are also difficult. I'd say that Shadow loops on my game are similar difficulty to R&M loops, and hitting the Kahn saucer is comparable to the garage shot. I love both games and could see R&M being my modern day favorite. I like the difficulty and that it doesn't feel conventional to play.

Shadow upper flipper shots are not very difficult once you play a few games - the shots from that flipper are in the sweet spot. Nothing like ripping a few loops and then slamming the ball into Khan multiball or into the Battlefield. VERY satisfying and VERY doable and VERY fun to attempt.

#11735 8 months ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

and fixed the gate and ball lock release on all three

Off topic, but what is the advice for fixing this? Thx

#11736 8 months ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

I actually own three pros.. epoxied the lock post, and fixed the gate and ball lock release on all three.

Did you rant in the Stranger Things thread about this also?

#11737 8 months ago
Quoted from ziz:

I would love to see what the made percentage of loops are on my Shadow by someone that hasn’t played it before. It would be very low, it’s low even for me and I’m good at it, it’s part of what makes the game great, along with the other low percentage mode start shot. I expect that to be comparable on R&M. Most casual players that play the game at my house don’t even realize there is an upper flipper there and even when I remind them they forget to flip it most of the time. They don’t even know the loop shot exists! Yet they still really enjoy the game.
I think it is a mistake to look at a game with a knowledgeable pinball person’s critical perspective and try to say that a casual player is going to not like something or be frustrated. They are enjoying the game on a different level and are unlikely to be turned off by a hard shot that they aren’t even aware of as being hard, they are just trying to keep the ball out of the trough. They tend to be most impressed by the theme integration, toys, lights and music, and this game looks like it is a home run on three of the four.
For an experienced player, these more difficult shots are great and make a game like the Shadow what it is, known for being a player’s game that never gets old because it can never be truly mastered by most people. It keeps the game from getting boring. I find that I get bored with fan layouts the fastest, so I think this will be the perfect layout for me as a home owner that plans on keeping the game forever. So Kaneda’s review makes me even more excited for the game!

I own a Shadow and would say that the Rick and Morty inner orbit is more difficult. Geometry is just one factor at play here, the other thing is speed of the shot. The challenge of the inner orbit on R&M is that it's from the very top of the flipper, where flipper speed is slowest. This coupled with the vertical (non-curved) wall on the inner orbit where the ball hits makes the the shot difficult.

My guess of what's happening, and potential solution (having played the games multiple times). It's a hypothesis, to be proven right or wrong:
1. The flipper is being advised to be moved a 1/8-1/4 from the wall. This is to give the ball more upward momentum to get around the inner orbit (to compensate for the flat inner orbit wall). This doesn't address the key issue of the curve.
2. When the flipper spaced out, it makes the lower garage shot even harder to hit.
3. Solution: Somehow fix the curve in the inner orbit outer wall, put the flipper tip closer to the wall (almost touching), and hopefully the inner orbit shot will be smoother, and the garage will be easier to hit.

It's worth a shot.

I touch on this a bit more in my earlier post: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rick-amp-morty-pinball-from-spooky/page/208#post-5463422

#11738 8 months ago
Quoted from PoMC:

Shadow upper flipper shots are not very difficult once you play a few games - the shots from that flipper are in the sweet spot. Nothing like ripping a few loops and then slamming the ball into Khan multiball or into the Battlefield. VERY satisfying and VERY doable and VERY fun to attempt.

I've owned 2 different Shadows over the course of 15 years and I have trouble ripping more than 2-3 consecutive loops and the Kahn shot isn't a gimme. It is very satisfying though! I have played other Shadow machines where the loops were easier and the Kahn was makeable just by holding up that flipper on an orbit shot Really depends on game setup.

#11739 8 months ago

It amazes me how Kaneda’s opinion gets so many of you fired up. I appreciate listening to anybody’s thoughts on games. Doesn’t mean I can’t like a game if my opinion is different. Seriously, I appreciate an HONEST opinion from a guy that purchased a game over some guy trying to defend his purchase as a fanboy.

#11740 8 months ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

But those players are still trying to PLAY the game - not just watch it. They may not understand how/why everything is happening.. but they still want to be entertained and get SATISFACTION from their play.. and hopefully a feeling to want to try again.
They want to see the game dance... they want to see things happen.. They want to achieve some payoff, even if it's something 'easy' to more advanced players.
If they play a game and nothing happens... they will quickly bore of it. Why play this, when that one over there I can make the dinosaur move! Or I can get multiball on that one.. etc
This is why you heard lingo from Stern in recent titles like "moving XYZ closer to the start button" - They are referring to the concept of how likely a player is going to experience something. It's why on JP2 they changed the feed t-rex MB start... because the game lacked a multiball experience 'close to the start button' that novice players could experience.
No one wants to flail around and have nothing exciting happen. Designers do things to make sure those novice players still have a shot to make things happen. Like having a mode start qualified at the start of a game, or really easy.. or why games like DE had multiball on ball three.. They were all things trying to make the game accessible to novice players so they could still get something interesting and fun out of the game.
This is where design is an art... to make a game accessible enough to a novice player so they can see it dance and get hooked... while still making it challenging enough to sustain play... and ensure better players get an experience they will enjoy as well. It takes a balance that is difficult to do without stupid obvious choices like spotting everything, or simply making progression harder.
Iron Maiden is an amazing example of how they made a game easy enough for the novice (shoot the middle!) that still challenges great players within the very same rules and game play.
All that said.. getting back to RaM... novices need to have enough opportunity to do and see things that will get them interested. They don't need to make every shot... but if everything were behind one of those impossible shots.. you'd have a problem. Right now, players can make RaM dance without the two difficult spinner and garage shots. But they do need to make one ramp and hit the scoop. If you don't do that... the game doesn't open up much. You could flail at the middle and probably get horseshoe locks. That's probably what they would be drawn to. But the upper flipper will likely be more a negative than a positive for them.

Thing is though, this game can also be quite fast. So even when making those easier shots, the ball's velocity heading back still might be an issue for very casual players. Case in point, that opened up horseshoe can really race back atcha.

So at that point, ball times can be brief early on.

Quoted from konghusker:

HONEST opinion from a guy that purchased a game over some guy trying to defend his purchase as a fanboy.

How often are these discussion points mutually exclusive though?

#11741 8 months ago
Quoted from bigehrl:

tell us, old wise-one...
what skill level and number of plays would you require, to meet your expectations for someone liking it, or "getting a handle" on it?

Peed myself.

EDIT: Poor taste in joke.

#11742 8 months ago

I listened to Scott talk to Chris on his podcast just now. Remove the Noob Noob plastic and open the upper loop a little. The upper flipper doesn’t need to be adjusted. The upper loop (spinner shot) is high on the flipper. The garage shot is lower on the flipper.

#11743 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

odd thing to try and make an insult?

I was quoting you. While not clearly expressed. Your one side of the spectrum nature really baffles me.

It's either you are in or you're out with you from what I've seen.

I guess I never saw such black and white.

Understood or not, I found it funny that you were referring to any spectrum at all when it seems if anyone, yours has minimal middle.

I dont mean this with disrespect however hard to believe. I mean it purely from my observations of anyone who disagrees with you.

Anyway. Agreed with them (you) or not I appreciate everyone (and your,) comments. Good and bad. Understood or not

#11744 8 months ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

I actually own three pros.. epoxied the lock post, and fixed the gate and ball lock release

Peed myself

EDIT: Corona jokes out. My bad. Shits too real already.

#11745 8 months ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I listened to Scott talk to Chris on his podcast just now. Remove the Noob Noob plastic and open the upper loop a little. The upper flipper doesn’t need to be adjusted. The upper loop (spinner shot) is high on the flipper. The garage shot is lower on the flipper.

Which podcast are you talking aboot.

-2
#11746 8 months ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Somehow people seem to gloss over some words. I specifically said “for a review”
The guy does not really play pinball. He is on the opposite end of the spectrum for sort of player whose game play opinion I would value at all. And yes, anyone that takes Kaneda’s opinion on any game as worthwhile is dumb as a rock in my book.
The guy is shock jock entertainer, and not any actual value of a critical or constructive review.
This is demonstrated even further by his review after playing a handful of games. The little value that would come from his review is the perspective of a non-player.
Game is on the challenging aide and I would never expect someone with his limited skill to like it or be able to get a handle on it in a single session where he played 5-10 games.

You have about ZERO credibility Hilton

#11748 8 months ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Did you rant in the Stranger Things thread about this also?

And an absolutely fantastic pin I might add

#11749 8 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And an absolutely fantastic pin I might add

Once you get done with all the lay-a-ways I completely agree.

#11750 8 months ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And an absolutely fantastic pin I might add

Stranger things is a turd of the tirds.

Cheers ice

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