(Topic ID: 140896)

RGB LED panels for DMD replacement

By ecurtz

8 years ago


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    #23 8 years ago

    Let´s throw the code together. ecrutz has the real pinball dmd interface running , i have
    the pinmame usb interface running.

    Currently have a 12bit palette (4096colors) to chose the 16colors from I use to map
    to the 16 shades of a Stern ROM or the 4 colors for the 4 shades of a WPC ROM.
    I have a code sample here with 33bit palette which may be adapted to my code
    but I think 4096 is enough by now. Sometimes it is already hard to seperate the 16 shades
    of one color.

    A video of my first colormapping implementation and more info can be found in the vpuniverse forum
    (I´m not allowed to post links here due to the fact that I´m new to the forum)

    I´m plannig to design a pcb with a connector for a classic DMDs like Stern, Vishay etc. driven by USB and Pinmame (like PINDMD2),
    a connector for the china 2.5pitch RGB panels driven by USB and a classic pinball interface to drive the china panel. All with
    color mapping to either a fixed palette or dynamic palettes with in-frame coding like SmartDMD.

    I will use two RGX panels side by side
    Search for "RGX-p3mm-Indoor-SMD2121-rgb-led-display-module-192mm-x-96mm-64-32-pixle-HD-Video" with the brackets on google.
    They cost 21.50$ each plus shipping.

    Regards

    Lucky1

    #24 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    My poor little Teensy is about at its limit with 2, so you'd need some beefier hardware driving them. Also they eat a lot of 5v so you'd want a serious power supply. You could maybe manage on/off for a single color depending on what the original refresh rate was like. Are they divided up somehow or is it all one monolithic signal?

    The STM32F407 I use should have enough power to handle this.
    Search for HUB75 STM32F4 in google for a 33bit example with 9 panels

    #38 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    DON'T use lucky1's search above if you want panels that will fit for a direct DMD replacement, you need the (brand new AFAIK) 2.5mm panels NOT the 3mm panels. "P2.5" often shows up in the description and the boards should be 32x64 pixels and 80x160mm. But unless you know C and like reading microcontroller datasheets it might be a little early to be buying panels anyway.

    Even if the words in the search string tell something else, it leads to the RGX board with 2.5mm pitch. Click on the link to the RGX panels Crash posted. If you want to use it single color with PinMAME my code is already working just fine. Color Code for PinMame is on its way.
    So why not be one of the first who tests it as a pindmd / pinball DMD alternative.

    #47 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    Did you order from those guys and get the 2.5mm panels? I'd be nervous about the weird description.

    Yes I ordered there but haven´t received them so far.

    Quoted from ecurtz:

    Looking at his project those are smaller panels, so I think even with the extra CPU you're going to have a hard time pushing enough data for one of the big Sega displays. I haven't looked at the datasheet for one of them though, so there may be some tricks to help.

    Since there is a pindmd2 version which can drive these panels and my board uses the same cpu, I still think it should work.

    #55 8 years ago

    Here is a video of the color mapping test of my PIN2DMD Interface using inframe palette switching

    #74 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    THAT looks freakin' awesome! I'm VERY impressed with how you managed to flawlessly process the signal and mesh the two panels side by side. Now that you seem to be beyond proof of concept (dang this is moving along fast), can you explain how everything is set up and what parts you used? Do you think this project is something that can be built by anyone for a reasonable cost?

    My setup uses the STM32F407 discovery board for around 20$. It has more pins and is more powerful compared to the Teensy. Right now I use jumper cables to connect to the DMD but I will design a pcb shield which adds a classic pinball interface to the USB input and a Pinball DMD interface as well as a china RGB panel interface. In classic pinball mode it will get the data from the wpc / stern board and output it on the china dmd. You can use static color mapping (4 or 16 colors for the whole pinball) or use modified ROMs with inframe coding like SmartDMD for different colors for each animation. In Virtual Pinball Mode it registers as PINDMD interface and gets the data from PinMame. Output will be either on a pinball DMD
    or china RGB DMD. All the coloring stuff will happen there too. Modified palettes will be uploaded before table starts.

    Code currently will only be shared with contributers.
    Here is the code having "only" PINDMD features.

    https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-cN1Dpc3Crcb1ZOZFJaWjlJdlU&usp=sharing

    Currently implemented is
    - PinMAME Interface
    - fixed palette color output
    - pinball DMD output

    I´m currently working on palette switching.

    Next will be
    - design new pcb
    - palette uploading code
    - add classic pinball interface (with the help of ecrutz code)

    Lucky1

    #75 8 years ago

    Here is a picture of my first PCB using a Pinball DMD for PinMAME

    http://postimg.org/image/3oecoetr9/

    #84 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    Maybe. It's 3 times as much data going in and going out. It depends on how fancy you want to get with the coding. The Teensy version is actually currently capable of better color depth than the Discovery one because the Teensy is using DMA to output the pixels, but if the Discovery code was optimized more it would have better throughput. It also depends on how they were driven. If it only updates 60 times a second that's a lot different than if it's doing 200+. Do you have a data sheet for the big DMD?
    EDIT: Never mind, I found the data sheet. Dot pitch is wrong, the large displays are 2mm, so unless they start making panels in that size you'll have to stick with the LCD replacement systems.

    For the current usage our code is fast enough,but we plan to implement more colors with the help of DMA later.
    Pinout is already prepared for this. Currently we send out 1 byte and feed 2 rows with 6 bits (2xRGB) simultaneously
    It is only 64bits more per row and we can feed 4 rows (12bits+clock) at one time by putting them on the same
    GPIO Pingroup.

    Lucky1

    #99 8 years ago

    Production of P2.5 panels has changed to 160x160mm. The 160x80mm panels are still available, but
    you should ask if they have it on stock before you order. It happened to me 3 times last week that I
    ordered on Aliexpress and got an e-mail that they want to send me one 160x160 instead .

    Regards

    lucky1

    #102 8 years ago

    Interesting aspect. The 32x64 boards are still available but you have to ask for them.
    I don´t know if you can disassemble the 160x160.
    I think you should ask them or just try. If it works, someone can make a new frame using e.g. a 3D Printer.

    Lucky1

    #146 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    Chatting with oga83 about support for PinballBrowser colorized frames. Is there anyone who has strong objections to that version of the code being closed source if it meant it was more convenient for regular users to install and use?

    My code on the MCU will stay open source. I will upload the needed signature for SmartDMD from a little PC program or put it on a sd card.

    #147 8 years ago

    I just bought a license for pinball browser for further testing of the SmartDMD implementation.
    Here is a video of the upload mechanism using smartDMD.txt palette information copied
    into pin2dmd.txt textfile. Commandline parameter is section in the textfile ([red] [potc]) which
    contains the palette information for the different games.

    #156 8 years ago

    Your teensy like my STM32 discovery board do both have USB ports, why don't you use that
    port to upload a SmartDMD license together with the palettes needed for the ROM.
    That way you can hide the information in a closed source PC software.
    I discussed this with oga and he is okay with it. That will be the way we do it.

    #160 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    I don't think of combining a plain text file of palette information with the totally open source STM32 code as providing any barrier to making the two line change to ignore the check. However if it's good enough for oga's peace of mind that's great. It was interesting to figure out how to call arbitrary ARM data as code anyway so I'll probably continue down the path of having PinballBrowser patch the file directly before upload.

    Without the uploaded signature the code will not trigger the smartDMD frames because of a missing header information.
    This is nothing you can change by removing a line out of the code.

    Here is a video testing palette switching of STERN Logo and POTC Logo

    #178 8 years ago

    Prototype of PIN2DMD is also on it´s way. PCB design is done. I will solder the components tomorrow and test if everything is working as expected. I added a HUB08 Interface for other chinese displays and a sdcard reader for configuration storage and easy palette editing from
    a pc with a card reader.

    http://s24.postimg.org/7fcu1tfxx/IMG_5655.jpg

    #180 8 years ago

    Some of the manufacturers on Aliexpress accept paypal if you ask them. Just write them a mail.

    #181 8 years ago

    Assembled the first prototype today. With a little plastic angle it fits perfectly as a replacement for
    standard DMDs. The controller can be mounted on the back.
    See more pictures and videos in my google album.

    https://goo.gl/photos/71JdG2SgaQZPuxFF9

    IMG_5669.jpgIMG_5669.jpg

    #186 8 years ago

    Picture from the side angle is added to my album on google.
    Difference is about 0,4inches , so there should be another 0,4 left to
    the window. You can use spacers to adjust this.

    #187 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    That looks amazing!! Great work! A few of questions, can you get a photo or two of the display installed in a game to give us an idea of width, height, and depth? I noticed a few dimly lit green pixels that should be completely off, is this fixable (just a software issue maybe)? Also, the Stern logo scrolling looks kind of choppy on camera. Is it smoother in person, or is the original animation not very smooth frame rate wise?
    image.jpg
    image_1.jpg

    The displays just arrived today. The dimly lit green pixels are timing related on the software side.
    I tested on bigger panels and wanted to wait how it looks on the smaller ones.
    The animation is, how it is sent from the software. There are no framedrops or anything on my
    side. We should ask someone who has a Stern Pinball how it looks on a real machine.
    I have no idea.

    #203 8 years ago

    The STM32 discovery board I use costs about 15$.
    The connector board should be around the same price
    if you sum up the price for the needed components.
    Our software will be open source and free for non-commercial
    DIY use. If somebody want´s to sell a plug and play package with
    our software, I´m open to offers Currently I haven´t planed to
    do this by myself.

    #206 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Sounds promising! So the software will be free unless you're selling it as a kit or something?

    Software is free unless you try to make money in any kind with it.

    #219 8 years ago
    Quoted from lyonsden:

    Major thumbs up for doing this! Slap on a license and post it to GitHub!

    Done ! https://github.com/lucky01/PIN2DMD

    #225 8 years ago

    Here is a part list for the connector board. Layout can be found on here
    https://github.com/lucky01/PIN2DMD/tree/master/pcb

    STM32F4 discovery board
    China shop
    ebay.com link: Stm32f4discovery Stm32f407 Cortex m4 Development Board st link V2

    50 Pin Header (2x25 female, 2.54mm pitch):
    China Shop:
    ebay.com link: 2 54mm 100 Female pin header 50pin 2x25pin dual row pcb receptacle 4pcs
    ebay.com link: 10 pcs Pitch 2 54mm 2x25 Pin 50 Pin Female Double Row Straight Header Connector
    Thailand Shop:
    ebay.com link: 3 pcs PCB Socket 2x25 Pins Double Row 50 Pins Female Header 2 54mm

    16 Pin IDC Header: (10pcs)
    China Shop:
    ebay.com link: 10pcs DC3 16P Straight JTAG Socket Connector For Flat Ribbon Cable 2 Row 16 Pin

    US Shop:
    ebay.com link: Shrouded Header Connector AMP 16 Position Pin Straight Copper Tin 2 5mmX 8mm

    14 Pin IDC Header:
    Thailand Shop:
    ebay.com link: 3 Pcs 2x7 14 Pin Box Header Connector 2 54 mm IDC Male Sockets Straight

    China Shop:
    ebay.com link: 10pcs 2 54mm IDC Box header DC3 DC3 14P 2 7 14 pins Pitch

    US Shop:
    ebay.com link: 4pk 2 x 7 Header Pins Straight 24653

    10 Pin (or more) breakaway Header:
    China Shop:
    ebay.com link: 10pc black 40pin 2 54mm Single Row Breakaway Male Pin Header for Arduino uno R3

    US Shop:
    ebay.com link: 5pcs 1x40 Male Breakaway Pin Header Color Red Green White Yellow Black

    Jumper:
    China Shop:
    ebay.com link: 100pcs 2pin mini micro jumper for 2 54 mm Pin Header Black Standard PCB shunts
    ebay.com link: 10pcs gold plated 2 pin jumper 2 54mmHard Drive IDE CD0 1 ShuntsComputer black

    US Shop:
    ebay.com link: 25 2 Pin Jumpers 2 54mm 1 CD pc Scsi Ide HD net
    ebay.com link: 10pcs 2 54mm 0 1 Jumper Shunts 2 pin 2 position USA Seller Free Shipping

    SPI Micro SD-Card (Pin2DMD pinout match):
    China Shop:
    ebay.com link: Micro SD Card Module 6 Pin SPI Interface for Arduino
    ebay.com link: Arduino Micro SD Card Module TF Card Reader SPI Interface Level Converter Chip D
    ebay.com link: Micro SD Card Module 6Pin SPI Interface for Arduino UNO R3 MEGA 2560 DUE

    US Shop:
    ebay.com link: Micro SD Storage Board Card Reader Memory Shield Module SPI for Arduino
    ebay.com link: 1 PC MICRO SD STORAGE CARD MEMORY SHIELD MODULE SPI INTERFACE FOR ARDUINO

    Ribbon Cable with connector (16pin):
    US Shop:
    ebay.com link: HQ 2x8 16 Pin 2 0mm IDC JTAG ISP Cable Multiple Color Ribbon Wire

    Ribbon Cable with connector (14pin):
    US Shop:
    ebay.com link: 2x7 14 pin IDC Ribbon Cable 2 54mm pitch 15cm USA Seller Free Shipping

    #250 8 years ago

    4 colors per FRAME is already implemented on my STM32. You can switch palettes during gameplay which means more colors.

    #252 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    There's currently no way I'm aware of to get any per frame palette information into a Data East game. That's the issue, not switching palettes. Snux is playing 24bit video at 64x128 on the Teensy, but that doesn't mean it's coming from the F-14s ROMS...

    #255 8 years ago
    Quoted from BrianMadden:

    I just wrote a How To guide which walks through buying the hardware and hooking everything up.
    https://missionpinball.com/docs/howto/smartmatrix-rgb-dmd/
    This is geared towards people using MPF and controlling the content of the display from the USB port, however I included mentions of how Eli's board will fit into this, and everything else about the panels, power, the Teensy, the connections, etc. still applies to either scenario.

    You forget to mention the STM32 discovery board solution It has SmartDMD frame recognition and PinMame USB interface.
    Pinball interface is also starting to work. Will post a video about this later.

    #256 8 years ago

    Here is the video of STM32 PIN2DMD Project connected to a Dr. Who pinball machine

    #260 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    Does the STM32 have 5v outputs? Some of the panels don't work reliably with 3.3v signals.

    My project partner Steve has a lot of experience with different chinese panels from his go-dmd project, which is a wall clock using pinball animations as a backgound. There is no panel I´m aware of which didn´t work with 3,3V. Even the old plasma DMDs can be driven
    with the STM32 and PinMAME as input.

    #261 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Very nice! I like the choice of colors. Seems like softer more pastel tones will look great. I imagine more saturated colors could easily be overpowering. Did you turn the power off at the end?

    The blackout at the end was problem in the code yesterday evening, which already got fixed today

    #264 8 years ago

    WPC interface is working good and we can switch color palettes now.
    Here is a short video of paletteswitching implementation on a Dr.Who WPC machine using PIN2DMD STM32 interface.
    Bally Logo is blue and "Dots in Motion" has a pink background.


    Quoted from ecurtz:There's currently no way I'm aware of to get any per frame palette information into a Data East game. That's the issue, not switching palettes. Snux is playing 24bit video at 64x128 on the Teensy, but that doesn't mean it's coming from the F-14s ROMS...

    WPC interface is working good and we can switch palettes now to get more colors instead of a fixed palette for the whole game.
    Here is a short video of paletteswitching implementation on a Dr.Who WPC machine using PIN2DMD STM32 interface.
    Bally Logo is blue and "Dots in Motion" has a pink background.

    #269 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    As a US citizen I'm reluctant to do that on my version without talking to a lawyer.

    We already had a talk about this. My first thought was how can somebody get a patent for creating a hash on received data ?
    I searched for the patent and read it closely. I had no idea of the existence of colordmd or smartdmd when I started this project.
    There really is a part in it talking about detecting frames by creating a hash. But as far as I understand a patent, it is only valid when all claims of it are used. We don´t use a LCD screen in our project, we don´t use a higher resolution or a version with more colors of the frame (4 shades of red are also 4 colors) and many other points are totally different to the patented technology. So I see no reason why our hobby project should endanger the success of colordmd.

    #272 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    If you're going to provide the hashing code for frame detection I'm sure any enterprising user who happened to be using my hardware could merge that bit in themselves.

    Seems to be that the US is the land of the free, but not for hobby engineering. Maybe we have to create a european and US branch in github. The code for frame detection is already there, so anyone is invited to port it to arduino teensy.

    #273 8 years ago

    Here is a video of PIN2DMD interface installed in my visual pinball cabinet.

    #278 8 years ago

    Pinout is in the rgb_out.h file on github

    Quoted from fly:I could ask a scheme to connect the microcontroller to the plate ??

    Pinout is in the rgb_out.h file on github or in the pcb directory

    #281 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Well looks like everyone involved is hard at work spending their personal time trying to make this a reality. I feel it won't be much longer until we have some beta boards that will be available for testing. If we get to that point I will be available to test.

    Boards for PIN2DMD solution are already beeing sold by UncleSash in the vpuniverse forum.
    He organized a group buy. There are only a few left.
    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2219-pin2dmd-color-pindmd-compatible-interface-with-led-rgb-color-dmd/?p=24193
    This works with PinMAME and works with real pinball machines better every day.

    #282 8 years ago
    Quoted from kapsreiter:

    i hope we will see a 1 alternative for colordmd soon.

    This project can´t be compared to ColorDMD because we don´t use a LCD or do upscaling.

    #285 8 years ago

    For the color adjustment, Steve, co author of pin2dmd, is currently working on a editor tool that is capable to load "pinmame recordings" and then later on colorize the dmd animations for different games. the tool is an extension to goDMD editor (see above).

    You can use the editor to scroll through the recording mark scenes and then give them an alternate palette.

    The editor will save a file containing for upload via usb before you start playing the table with pinmame or to permanently upload it (or storing it on sd card) for use in a real pinball machine.

    "pinmame recordings" have to be recorded first with another special vpinmame.dll to get a "dmd screen recording" while playing the game. This must be used later to get original frame data in the editor tool.

    see screenshot of the actual work ...

    post-9256-0-66568800-1446631641.pngpost-9256-0-66568800-1446631641.png

    #292 8 years ago

    Here is a video of PIN2DMD connected to a real WPC Twilight Zone
    pinball machine. Palette was quick & dirty black,red,blue,white.

    #341 8 years ago

    Did you connect your logic analyzer to your teensy. What is the lowest DisplayEnable time you have ?
    I´m currently running at 4.5us.

    #346 8 years ago

    Stern Metallica with PIN2DMD

    Stern Shrek with PIN2DMD

    #349 8 years ago

    I used pinmame to test it and pinmame still has some timing issues with this ROM.

    #358 8 years ago

    Game detection ! Clever move

    #367 8 years ago

    For the STM32F4 discovery board project PIN2DMD from me, there is a group buy organized in the vpuniverse forum.
    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2250-pin2dmd-prorder-backorder/

    For the teensy based project from ecrutz you have to contact him.

    #369 8 years ago

    Here is a video of PIN2DMD connected to a Stern Avatar pinball machine.

    4 weeks later
    #399 8 years ago
    Quoted from Curbfeeler:

    We're close, but something not quite right.
    » YouTube video

    You have the wrong device mode configured in PIN2DMD.exe config tool. I assume you are still in Devicemode0 which is PinMame USB input. You need to set devicemode3 for Stern input. From your video in vpuniverse forum I can see you already fixed that but still have noise.

    Random pixels and sync problems are coming from bad input signal quality, which differs from machine to machine. Try to put 220Ohm resistor in line of data and clock signal and also a 33,47 or 100pf capacitor to ground. I hope that kills the noise. Got this from a Stern LED DMD which I removed from my vpin cab. You may also use shorter connections or a shielded cable. We are still in beta with real pinball
    input but getting closer to a reliable solution from day to day. However code seems to work fine. Unfortunately I don´t have a Stern machine here to test myself.
    Thanks for your support. Great to see the real pinball community also supporting this project.

    #400 8 years ago

    Here is PIN2DMD working in a STTNG. No Signal quality problems in this machine.

    #402 8 years ago

    The issues are not game, they are machine related. One WPC board has noise on the DMD line and another has none. It can be seen on the oscilloscope. We are working on a way to get rid of it. Screen tearing is from the camera. Unfortunatelly the machines I have don´t have the problem.The Dr. Who from Steve has the problem but he didn´t have the time to try some things out so far. He is working more on the editor side right now.

    1 week later
    #404 8 years ago

    PIN2DMD interface with dual Hub75 output pcb from UncleSash to drive 2 panels.

    #411 8 years ago
    Quoted from tezting:

    I want to replace my DMD in my T2 with this

    You can join the group buy here
    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2250-pin2dmd-prorder-backorder/

    1 week later
    #446 8 years ago
    Quoted from agodfrey:

    ... OBV you can do this all right now with boards that can be had from VP universe. (Sorry I'm a little slow sometimes) it seems like ecurtz is working on a board that is more suited to real pins as opposed to a board that is supposed to be used in Virtual pinball but CAN be used in real pins.

    That is not totally right. The PIN2DMD project was started by me as a color dmd solution for virtual pinball machines, but was shortly after joined by Steve who wanted to have it for his real pinball machines. It is already tested on Stern and WPC machines and working fine.
    I just recently implemented Whitestar, Gottlieb and DataEast for testing. Steve has some Gottlieb and DE machines and will do the test
    in the next few weeks. A LOTR is about 70km away and will also be tested soon. So in the end it is supposed to be used in both worlds with all the advantages you get from it, like using colorization profiles from virtual pinmame etc.

    1 week later
    #449 8 years ago
    Quoted from agodfrey:

    So what are the advantages or differences with the other board that is being made?

    It is hard to talk about advantages or disadvantages. PIN2DMD is fully integrated in visual pinmame and is already used by more than 150
    users. There are already some real pin users but they are in the minority so far. The idea is to melt the virtual and real pinball world together when it comes to colors und use palettes etc. also for real pins. You can use the virtual pinball to test new settings and install in the real pin when you are done PIN2DMD is not maintained by a single person, it is open source and already more than a hand full of people contribute to the development. Go to the vpuniverse forum and see for yourself.

    #481 8 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    I ordered from Lucky1 (I believe), and got more than I needed at $50. If Aaron sells these for $99, that's $149. (Plus whatever Aaron charges for shipping..) I ordered the board and control set for Virtual Pin, even though I'm putting mine in my TZ. (I wanted to have the extras for any future project). So that's a good $50 less, plus power supply. So yeah, just under the cost. More under if you don't get the unneeded extras.

    If you want to put it into TZ, I would advice to order for real pinball since that pcbs have a filter which the virtual pin pcbs don´t have.

    #483 8 years ago
    Quoted from fastpinball:

    PS: who is going to be the first to get one in and running in a CV? I want to see that!

    Here is a video of pin2dmd in a CV

    There is a little sync problem of the first row because the pcb didn´t have the filter and
    maybe we have to adjust the timing a bit, but I think that are the little things that come
    up the more different machines we connect.

    #486 8 years ago

    The package F is from UncleSash who organized a group buy for the pcbs. Pin2DMD is a open source community project of which I´m a part of doing mostly the firmware on the discovery board and others taking care of e.g. utilities like the pin2dmd editor from steve (aka go-dmd editor) which uses some additional code of my firmware.

    I´m talking about the Rev.2.0 board from here http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2250-pin2dmd-prorder-backorder/?p=26700

    #489 8 years ago

    It is not a Raspberry Pi based. Pin2DMD uses a STM32F407 discovery board. The software is charityware which means
    that you are asked to donate for it and we forward the money to a charity project of our choice. The best place to get
    more information is vpuniverse, since most of the questions you have are already answered there.

    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/forum/132-pin2dmd/

    #490 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Looks great, but is it possible to fix the trailing issue when scrolling? I see the same problem with DMD Extender, but David said its not possible to fix, that these dim trailing planes are in the actual signal and it's simply not noticed with a plasma display. Much like with interlaced video and seeing scanlines on a flat screen TV vs. on a CRT.

    I didn´t even notice and David could be right about that. I´m pretty much sure that you have the same
    when you connect a monochrome LED DMD to it but maybe it is more obvious when you have different
    colors for each shade. But who plays pinball in slow-motion or still picture anyways

    #491 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    I noticed a few dimly lit green pixels that should be completely off, is this fixable (just a software issue maybe)?

    Your last post remembered me of another still picture analysis from you and
    there is a fix from a member of the community for the dim lights problem here
    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2385-color-bleeding-of-chinese-rgb-panels/

    That´s a good demonstration of the strength of community projects,
    I would never have had the idea to investigate that problem deeper.

    #525 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    I believe the source for the goDMD editor is here:
    https://github.com/sker65/go-dmd-clock
    The editor stores the checksum for each frame in the palette text file. Alternatively, would it be possible to write a script to convert the checksums to a different type of hash?

    It is also the source of pin2dmd editor from Steve

    #529 8 years ago
    Quoted from rubberducks:

    Would it not be a good idea to try to standardise this somewhat, rather than have people using numerous different mini-computers and software with it? If people were working on the same platform, surely more games could be done (and more ambitiously), whilst providing a much clearer, more desirable platform to buy into for consumers?

    I just agreed with Eli on some standards. He will also be able use the data generated by the PIN2DMD Editor from Steve in the near
    future for machine detection and default palette assignment. So the user / machine data will be interchangeable or at least convertible.
    He is using Arduino IDE with Teensy. I decided to use C++ with a bit more powerful but still cheap hardware. So unfortunatelly
    it is not possible to use even parts of his code in my interface und vice versa. But the user shouldn´t matter about that.

    #530 8 years ago
    Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:

    Ok... I want to do this with every pin that I have that doesn't have a topper... I will have to read this entire thread... But can anyone give me the cliff notes on how much this mirror-dmd-converter will cost me?

    The dual hub interface is no longer available because of signal problems. You still have the possibility to add a second display
    by cimping a second connector to the ribbon cable and attach a controller to it. We have tested with smartdmd as main display
    connected to one end the wpc dmd controller in the middle and pin2dmd at the other end. Worked without a problem.
    the controller costs about 60 Euro alltogether. Then you just need a display and a power supply e.g. from fast pinball .

    #542 8 years ago
    Quoted from winteriscoming:

    Awesome!
    So in the current iteration, it's not full on colorization as the screen is limited to a 4 color palette. That is to say, for example, in your frames that show clowns, you can't color each clown's hat a different color.

    look at the colors of Steves Dr. Who logo

    #543 8 years ago

    or even

    It is all currently beta and I think not even released in the current version of the editor

    #559 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Wow, full bitmap replacement. I wasn't sure if these computers would have the power needed to pull this off. This is huge, not only can you colorize frames yourself without the limitation of a 2-bit palette, you could even re-draw the artwork entirely! I think this will be a big selling point over ColorDMD. And if anyone is wondering no, this does not infringe on ColorDMD's patents. Their system analyzes monochromatic frames and injects chroma information into the stream and displays it as a full-color bitmap, preserving the original luma component of the image. This update skips the chroma processing altogether and injects full color frames in real time.

    Yeah these little things are powerful. We get about 30fps when reading from SD Card.
    Not sure what the teensy is capable of.
    About the selling point. PIN2DMD is "charity ware" which means that you don´t pay for
    it for private use but you are kindly asked to donate for the work Steve and I have done.
    We forward the donation to a charity project of our choice which is currently a orphans home.

    Here is a link to the donation button
    https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=QNNL5UDYRH4MA

    #561 8 years ago
    Quoted from Mocean:

    Any thoughts on a VGA connector so I can support this in PyProcGameHD? If not maybe there's something else I can work into the HD branch to make it easier to do color on these on P-ROC?
    Post expo, I want to play with this... Let me know how I can help.

    You can use the USB interface to send raw picture data or video.
    PM me if you need further info how to do this.

    #563 8 years ago

    Eli told me that is uses the same timing like SAM. But it is not a big issue to add other timings.

    #579 8 years ago
    Quoted from ecurtz:

    curbfeeler has successfully used my version in a DE Last Action Hero, which looks to have almost identical DMD timings to the Gottlieb System 3, so it should be possible. I'm not sure if the Pin2DMD group has tested non-WPC games yet or not.

    We currently have tested PIN2DMD successfully WITH WPC(Fliptronics), WPC95 and SAM.
    The timing for DataEast, Whitestar and Gottlieb is already implemented but not tested.
    Steve has a Stargate and a Lethal Weapon to test which will be done the next week or so.
    A LOTR is a one hour trip away and is on our to do list.

    All platforms are supported by the pin2dmd editor.
    SAM can additionally be used with pinball browser colored ROMs.

    #595 8 years ago

    Here is a more or less complete list of current features of PIN2DMD interface:

    Hardware specs:
    - 168MHZ STM32F407VGT6 microcontroller with ARM Cortex-M4F core, 1 MB Flash, 192 KB RAM
    - external SD-card slot for micro SD
    - real pinball interface with input signal filter
    - micro USB interface
    - Hub75 Interface for China RGB DMD

    Software supports:
    -WPC95 real pinball input
    -WPC Fliptronics real pinball input
    -Stern SAM real pinball input
    -Whitestar real pinball input (beta)
    -DataEast real pinball input (beta)
    -Gottlieb real pinball input (beta)
    -SmartDMD inframe color switching with Pinball Browser modified SAM ROMs
    -Frame colorization with PIN2DMD Editor by Steve (beta) (all systems)
    -Frame / Animation replacement with PIN2DMD Editor by Steve (beta) (all systems)
    -Storage of custom data on SD-Card (animation, frames, palettes, config etc)
    -WCID automated USB driver installation (no driver hassle)
    -config tool to adjust brightness/default palette/mode

    -Visual Pinball / PinMame with recording of DMD output to be used with PIN2DMD Editor
    for colorization of virtual and real pinball
    -Future Pinball with DMD interceptor DLL
    -Unit3d Pinball
    -Ultra DMD
    -XDMD
    -PinballX

    Already 5 revisions of pcb layout with improvements (latest Rev 2.0) from UncleSash
    Large user community (200+) with shareable custom data and experience.

    Currently working on improvement of the PIN2DMD Editor features
    (hardware acceleration of frame handling)and dump routine of real pinball
    machine DMD output via USB for use with editor.

    #608 8 years ago
    Quoted from Crash:

    Whoa, seriously? That would be very useful for getting dumps of specific animations. To my knowledge there is no way to do this in PinMAME since you cannot drag the ball around in Visual Pinball or manually trigger switches. Just take the glass off, start recording, and start the mode you want to record animations for.

    It is just for convenience since not every pinhead is capable of installing visual pinball on his pc.

    Quoted from Crash:

    Does this mean I can get just the microcontroller/shield, install it into an existing plasma/DMD Extender/SmartDMD game and use the shield to chain the signal over to the existing display I have installed? This would allow me to move the shield to multiple games easily and record frames straight from the game.

    You can connect PIN2DMD parallel to you existing installation by crimping an additional connector to your ribbon cable.
    There are also plans of using this version of the discovery board, which would display the dmd data on a little screen for verification or modding.

    IMG_5908_(resized).jpgIMG_5908_(resized).jpg

    #626 8 years ago
    Quoted from Fifty:

    Is there a step-by-step on how to get this installed and up and running so noobs like myself can do it? I've read through this entire thread and I still feel like I'm missing something. I am guessing I need to read up more on PIN2DMD.

    You can start with the tutorials on github here
    https://github.com/lucky01/PIN2DMD
    and with the threads here
    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/forum/132-pin2dmd/

    #647 8 years ago

    ACDC with PIN2DMD

    #692 8 years ago
    Quoted from agodfrey:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/colorizing-rgbdmd-using-pin2dmd
    SO I started a thread about using Pin2DMD editor to colorize RGB.DMD stuff. MOST of it will also apply to lucky's Pin2DMD board but I figured I would document my experience working with the software and using it with Eli's RGB.DMD.
    I know there are still some developments that need to be made to get the two to talk to each other but I figured I would at least document using the software and figuring out the most efficient way to colorize files. Also would be a good place to share data dumps and other stuff. I'm sure it'll develop and maybe even get replaced but.....it's where I'll post my findings for now.

    So far Eli and I have only agreed to using the same detection mechanism that it may be possible in the future to use Steve´s editor with RGBDMD.

    #697 8 years ago
    Quoted from agodfrey:

    Seems it started out as a thread for Eli to document his new product for the Pinball community. Then lucky came in to offer the pin2dmd.

    In fact it was the other way around. Shortly after I posted info about pin2dmd here
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/smartdmd-dmd-interface-with-colors-upscaling-network-and-more/page/8#post-2726632
    Eli presented his board in this thread. From that day we shared infos about each others projects like logic analyzer recordings and source code.

    #707 8 years ago
    Quoted from rubberducks:

    I know I'll be getting one of the Lucky1 controller based full DMD kits (if that's the one that can do full recolouring) as soon as they're available.

    Available ? Our controller kit has been available for months now as a group buy at vpuniverse.com forum organized by UncleSash.
    We have already 200 users of pin2dmd. http://vpuniverse.com/forums/forum/132-pin2dmd/
    You can order the displays from fast pinball and connect the controller kit, which is in fact plug & play

    #716 8 years ago

    PIN2DMD is a non commercial community project which will and can not compete to ColorDMD under
    professional aspects. It is no turnkey, plug & play solution with preprogrammed colorization for certain machines and professional support.
    It is a platform where every motivated programmer can contribute to and give any idea a try
    or every user with basic pc knowledge can share his colorization mods with the community. A special advantage for me is that it brings the community from real pinball machines and virtual pinball machines together to share their mods.
    Although a lot a requests came from dealers all over the world, there is no intention to commercialize it in any way.
    The only thing we do is kindly request a donation for our work, which we forward to a charity project.

    #719 8 years ago
    Quoted from djb_rh:

    Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that it was a commercial competitor. Or that it could or should be.
    It's an option for someone wanting to DIY, though, and thus some comparisons are valid. Nothing more, nothing less.
    --Donnie

    Was not a reply to your post. Just to make our point clear. In the case of ColorDMD competition leads to nothing but having to deal with patents they own and maybe lawyers. From my point of view the money we would make out of pin2dmd is not worth the trouble.
    It´s just a hobby.

    #721 8 years ago

    That´s just interpretation. I don´t know what or what not is part of the patent, because I´m not a patent lawyer and even a lawyer is not a judge. So to definitely find out we would have to go to court. In europe, where I live, every private, non commercial development is free of patent infringement of any kind anyways. So no danger for me from that side, but I totally respect the work of ColorDMD and don´t want to endanger his business by competing commercially.

    #723 8 years ago

    I had a longer conversation with Randy about his patent (http://www.google.com/patents/US8773452).
    We came to the agreement, that that US patent issues may not be a concern until Pin2DMD is commercialized for sale in the US, which is totally O.K. for me.

    removed on request

    #726 8 years ago
    Quoted from rubberducks:

    If your solution is novel and developed indepedently, it won't infringe the patent even in the US, even if the mechanic is identical. But since your software is non commercial, freely distributed and you're not in the US it's moot anyway.

    That is what I told Randy also. He believes that every color pinball DMD output which is not a static palette mapped to the 4/16 shades is covered by his patent and threatens everybody with his lawyer who thinks different. He believes that even the PIN2DMD Editor is infringing his patent and not allowed in the land of the free. Steve and I had a longer conversation with him the last days. Where I live a idea is not patentable only the technical realization of it. If he thinks he is safe from competition of any kind with his patent and leave colordmd as it is as the only solution for the next years, he maybe should rethink his business strategy. Here is my last E-Mail I sent him about that.

    Your patent clearly only covers a piece of hardware and not software.
    Software is not even patentable in germany.

    I think this leads to nothing. All I can see is that the community has created
    something which obviously wasn´t there before and there seems to be a demand
    for it. I just started it, but I don´t think you can stop this by trying to convince Steve or me.
    There are still a lot of users asking for a turnkey solution with a color LED display and a professional
    editor tool to be creative, which we won´t serve. Maybe you should do it before somebody else
    does.

    #737 8 years ago

    I totally understand that Randy tries to protect what is his, and that is ColorDMD how it is and sold for years now.
    Ideas are not patentable. Only technical realizations of it are. I only wrote the device software and didn´t use a single line of code from colordmd. We use a widely usable dev board and a adapter pcb, which is also totally different. We use a different display type etc.
    As technology moves on new possiblities came up and we used them to realize our own ideas. In my case it was using a color LED display instead of a standard pinball display for my virtual pin project. I think there are two potential customer groups in the community. On one side we have the ones which prefer high res / high color like ColorDMD offers it. And on the other we have the ones who like the brightness and look of a LED Display. Only a few would switch. Problem for Randy might be that he couldn´t serve the second group, because technology was not available and now that it is available he doesn´t have the product to serve it. But that has nothing to do with patent infringement.

    #739 8 years ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    ColorDMD should just add a hub75 connector to there hardware spend 5min writing the fpga driver to drive those displays and offer the LED modules as an lcd alternative. Not that much work for them. They most likely are already doing this?

    That´s exactly what I suggested to Randy.

    #750 8 years ago
    Quoted from winteriscoming:

    I don't think you'll be disappointed. I ordered an assembled unit from ecurtz and it worked out of the box in my JP and SST. The only thing you might need to do is set up the software on your computer so you can write your own palette to the board and adjust the brightness to your liking. Unless something has changed, the default pallet is shades of gray (kind of a black and white tv look).
    I have no experience with PIN2DMD yet. I think I'm receiving my board for that today or tomorrow.

    Send me a PM when you have it. I want to make sure that you have the latest version with new USB dump functionality from real pinball machine for the upcoming version of Steves editor. The activation thing was necessary because there were some rumors about unapproved commercial sale of our little community project which we want to prevent.

    1 week later
    #787 8 years ago

    Here is one of the reasons why we introduced the activation system:

    www.pinballsp.com

    He recently introduce his own pcb to sell with our software without even asking for permission.
    We will make sure that not one of his pcbs will work with PIN2DMD

    #793 8 years ago

    I think he is pretty aware of what he is doing. I sent him a note on facebook in spanish and english and a PM here to remove our product from his company site. The only thing that happened is that my comment on facebook got deleted shortly after. I´m glad that we introduced the activation key system because it is these guys that pisses me off. He will have to stay forever with the 1.x firmware which is still open source on github. I doubt that he is capable of adding any features like the V2 has.

    #795 8 years ago
    Quoted from BloodyCactus:

    hmm i posted on his facebook on the page that had the actual pin2dmd screenshot on the panel, comment is gone in < 5 minutes heh and the photo is gone too. heh. he certainly knows he should not be using pin2dmd for commercial purposes per the CC-NC license... you should report it for using your intellectual property on the facebook page. i think its an option on that pages 'report' button.

    Thanks for your investigation. Wrote a small letter to the customers of him commenting on his "invention". Also created a topic here.
    The community is that small the news will spread anyways and do more harm to him that way.
    To be honest, I like his design, but since we really don´t know which hardware features we will add in the future
    it is better to stay modular. That way you can keep the core components and just add features by swapping the shield at
    low costs. The contributor Team got just joined by two people. One is trying to make it possible to read the animations
    directly from the ROM for the editor and the other is thinking about adding WIFI functionalities to the shield.
    We will see where this leads to.

    #799 8 years ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    I am a bit confused.
    can we buy a http://www.pinballsp.com board and install the pin2dmd firmware on it if we buy(donate) the pin2dmd key. Or is this hardware just completely banned from the pin2dmd "OPEN SOURCE" project?
    The http://www.pinballsp.com is only illegal if it comes pre installed with pin2dmd firmware?

    To be honest I like the idea of that all-in-one board and would be proud to see pin2dmd like that one day but,
    since we are doing it for free I don´t want to mess around with and give support for different hardware even if it claims to be 100% compatible. If I stay with the disco board for now I can easily reproduce any problem and fix it. We are still in the development phase of this project and I want to focus on implementing new features and not on supporting somebody else´s hardware. That is a waste of my personal time. That is the reason why there will be no key for this.

    #812 8 years ago
    Quoted from djb_rh:

    As for knocking anyone down, I don't believe anyone is doing that. I only care to make sure people understand what kind of "open source" this is or isn't. You wanna use it, feel free. Enjoy. Become a contributor. Doesn't bother me a bit. But just know that at any moment the owner of this particular software could lose interest, die, get too tied up to care for a long period, etc, and you might not be able to get a new key for any new hardware you buy/build and thus not be able to use it at all. *shrug*
    --Donnie

    Absolutely right, but where is the difference to any other solution on the market out there except the fact that you get more for less money ?
    I think that is worth the risk to trust my word that we will release the source again when all contributors lost interest in the project.

    #816 8 years ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    But when you release the source that is when people will copy it again and you will have to lock it again. In this day and age if its on the internet people will take it and do what they want with it (use personally or sell it or what ever) Just the way it is these days. So really it either has to just stay locked and NOT be a open source project but just a normal project you work on and give out releases to people who give donations(which sort of is a business?) Or make it actually OPEN source where any one can download it. And yes people will put it on other hardware and yes people will sell it. Just the way it is these days.
    But need to make a choice I think?? Its either open source or its not. It cant just be open when you feel like it, really confuses every body.

    But that is the day I and all other contributors don´t care anymore.
    Choice is already made
    V1 - opensource
    V2 - contributors access to source only.

    about the charity "business" - very , very bad payment

    #821 8 years ago
    Quoted from djb_rh:

    Sorry if it seems mundane or unfair to you, but it's kind of an important topic. True open source would be pretty easy to understand. True closed source, same. This stuff in the middle? Not so clear cut.
    The one thing people need to remember is that the entire point of lucky1's more restrictive licensing is to keep anyone from being able to sell a complete kit (particularly in the US due to ColorDMD's patent). Which currently means you could order a panel and bracket from FAST, and then a board from Sascha (UncleSash), and have what you need. But if UncleSash were to stop making boards then you'd need to DIY or someone else would have to step up AND you'd have to hope lucky1 will give you a key. At any point he COULD choose to stop giving keys to anyone in the US, for example. Or he could choose to not give keys to a different board maker who was "charging too much" or "making one board and thus it isn't modular enough" or "selling boards in the US" or whatever reason he chooses.
    --Donnie

    ...or I could fall into a coma over your arguments and endless discussion about this which never get to a point.

    #825 8 years ago

    Or you can use the V1 open source code from PIN2DMD from here https://github.com/lucky01/PIN2DMD/tree/master/firmware/deprecated/source
    which has a bit more functionality as RGB.DMD and is written in C
    instead of Arduino language.

    #828 8 years ago

    You are right. I mixed this up since I worked on tooling today.

    #835 8 years ago

    We got a new contributor who joined the team who implemeted PIN2DMD into Mission Pinball Framework.
    It can be easily ported to any other python based application like PyProc

    Thanks Pouet for your work

    #847 8 years ago
    Quoted from russdx:

    Nothing wrong with good old printf apart from wen debugging interrupts.
    Yeah i use the KUID as well to lock the firmware to a given device. Stops people just installing your firmware on there own hardware (in a commercial situation) (looks over at lucky1 haha)

    Russ, at least you can laugh about it now and btw wouldn´t stop me if I really want to get it working.
    Passing the looks over to DJJoke haha.

    #849 8 years ago

    Bypassing is better then breaking But don´t be afraid not at all interested. Too easy to do from scratch
    Every protection can be hacked or bypassed, it is just a matter effort you want to put into it.

    #865 8 years ago

    Here is a preview of a feature in the PIN2DMD editor of Steve . Max, a new member of our dev team, has added a import filter to read the animations directly from the ROM of WPC machines. It will be integrated in one of the following releases. Together with the USB dump routine for real pinball machines (WPC,STERN, DE, Gottlieb, WHITESTAR) you have the possibility to catch pretty much every situation of the gameplay and colorize it.

    first_test_using_frames_directly_from_game-rom_(resized).jpgfirst_test_using_frames_directly_from_game-rom_(resized).jpg

    #874 8 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    What about text overlays, though? (i.e. TZ's Hitchiker animation, etc..)

    We have added a mask option to blank out any score display on detection in the upcoming editor.

    Quoted from Coyote:

    Pin2Dmd v1.27 on the display, TZ 9.33H (beta) on the game. Sorry, I had forgotten to mention that I was on the PIN2DMD, not yours, d'oh.

    The version is very old. We are currently working on 2.03 with a completely new input routine using lossless doublebuffer recording and automatic resync on such an error. 2.03 should be released this week. We have a date with a Stern Startrek to verify SAM input and a Stern Kiss for first Spike implementation this evening.

    #876 8 years ago

    The whole discussion was started in the smartdmd thread by me, when Eli decided to open this new general thread about RGB LED panels for both pin2dmd and rgb.dmd. I agree we should split now, but we also should lock this thread then, to prevent that the users continue here to post things about both developments.

    #881 8 years ago

    Test of the editor with STTNG

    #884 8 years ago

    Palettes.dat generated by pin2dmd editor

    #887 8 years ago
    Quoted from Deez:

    So If I just put that file and the key file on there it should do color switching?

    If you generate a project for that game in the editor and export it to palettes.dat - yes

    1 week later
    #913 8 years ago

    New Version 2.05 for PIN2DMD is out. See changelog here
    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2436-pin2dmd-colorprism-v20-firmware/

    #915 8 years ago
    Quoted from pinball_customs:

    This is great, is there open-source software to colourize the dots ourselves?

    You can either use pinballbrowser for Stern SAM ROMs or pin2dmd editor (beta stadium) for WPC, DataEast,Stern etc.

    #925 8 years ago

    Since you are from europe you can contact rappelbox here
    http://www.flippermarkt.de/community/forum/showthread.php?t=167139
    PIN2DMD is already tested on a Getaway since one of the developers owns one.
    No coding necessary.

    #932 8 years ago

    Nice !!
    If you would share your layout together with supply source would be great.

    Quoted from Coyote:

    Well my little board came in, and I assembled it. I made an error on one of the plugs, and will need to replace it, but, I'm set!
    If I had to do the board over, I woulda added a fuse and an LED to indicate when it was putting out power, to help in any troubleshooting necessary, if necessary. But it mounts directly to the mounting studs of the display. It accepts 120vac or 100vac, and the plug matches the high voltage transformer plug for the display driver board. (So, easy unplug from display driver board in WPC games, and plug into this board.)

    IMG_20160325_191509_(resized).jpg

    #940 8 years ago

    contact unclesash on vpuniverse.com about the rest

    #941 8 years ago

    New Version 2.07 for PIN2DMD is out with some bugfixes for real pinball. See changelog here
    http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/2436-pin2dmd-colorprism-v20-firmware/

    1 week later
    3 weeks later
    #963 7 years ago
    Quoted from mgpasman:

    Hm, I seem to be stuck again. The pin2dmd.exe program starts, but won't let me do anything useful. I am trying to run the program standalone, not connected to the board. I can select proper mode, but cannot save palette or config file. I can click the buttons, just nothing happens.

    I told you that you need to be connected to the controller (microUSB) when you use pin2dmd.exe. There is nothing to do with this tool offline.

    #964 7 years ago
    Quoted from mgpasman:

    .
    I tried modifying the default palette as Rensh mentioned, but when I try to save it, it does not offer palette.dat format (just XML or JSON), whereas the pin2dmd.exe tool can only read .dmc files. And so far I have not been able to make the dmd2pin.exe tool save any file to my SD.

    You need to use "export" to save your palette as palettes.dat. That is written under 2.1.3 of the editor tutorial.

    #969 7 years ago
    Quoted from mgpasman:

    Cool, now it seems to work here as well . I read somewhere it takes colors 0, 1, 5 and 15 from the palette, but that does not seem to be the case, it takes 0, 1, 7 and 15 (at least, in WILLIAMS mode).

    I think you don´t run the latest 2.10 version of pin2dmd firmware. There was a bug with the color mappings. Should be 0,1,4,15 in the latest version of editor and firmware.

    6 months later
    #989 7 years ago

    PIN2DMD has been successfully tested on Capcom Airborne and Pinball Magic as well as on AlvinG PistolPoker

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider lucky1.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

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