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Quoted from winteriscoming:Ugh... that sucks. It seems like even from the same vendor things like price, description and pictures get changed pretty quickly after someone posts success...
This is a common challenge. We are working with Chinese sources to secure quality panels in the form factors needed. I will share details on pricing and availability when I feel like we have them locked down. I am waiting for a sample lot from another source now.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Sounds good guys. PM me and I hold a place in the order received.
Our goal is to source panels for the commercial "drop in" solution while using that buying power to make panels more easily accessible for the DIY crowd.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Mocean:I've been waiting for my panel to arrive for what feels like forever now. If the thing shows up as a single panel? Ugh... Here's hoping.
You should be able to remove the panels from the plastic backing frame and then cut the frame in half.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Claires-dad:I was one of the people who bought a 64*64 panel and got a single module rather than the two 64*32 modules fastened to a single frame that was shown in the listing. They shipped a panel that matches their specs, so I can't really complain about it. I placed a new order with a different vendor for two 64*32 panels, so eventually I hope to get what I need.
led-panel-160x160.jpg
Oh interesting. The images I had seen were of a 64x64 sized frame backing with two 32x64 panels on it.
Sorry you didn't get what you need!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
We will be sure to get some RGB DMD panel shots on the Twitch.tv/fastpinball stream of our event on the 19th.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:Will this be saved if we miss the stream?
I'll look into what it takes to do that.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Aurich:Are each if those 2 boards tall? The aspect ratio looks wrong. Or is the lens just playing tricks with the angle distorting?
Good thinking getting them tested all with full RGB.
It is 10 32x64 panels. Makings for 5 32x128 panels.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from ecurtz:There's an API you just feed an array of colors. I really doubt there will be RGBW versions, since these panels are pretty standardized, they just haven't been previously available in the exact size we needed. If there ever were it would require hardware changes to support the extra channel, but both the hardware and software changes would be trivial.
I agree with Eli, I don't expect the RGBW in this form factor for the reasons he describes. The whites looked white and not that light purple tint you see when driven in some cases.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
My RGB DMD Panel sample lot is at the post office. Will pick them up Saturday and see how they look.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Coyote:Aaron at FAST was, but I don't think he's gotten them yet..
Sorry I have been so quiet lately. We had our meet-up(which was awesome), then I got sick(not so awesome), then Thanksgiving(yum), then catching up with everything else going on(ugh). I received the sample lot of 10 and distributed them to a couple other guys already and have another to go out soon.
So far they look pretty good. One was a little streaky, but I want to test it more extensively. I am thinking there needs to be some sort of rating system on these. What I came up with so far was:
A+ = Looks perfect and functions perfect.
A = Looks really good, functions perfect. Differences might be slight heat effects on the LEDs when you are viewing them with light off, close up.
B = Functions perfect, but definitely looks a little rough. This is basically the line I would draw and not accept any worse than this. Basically, good enough to not be worth the return shipping expense.
People I have spoken to vary in what they want to buy but the majority say they want to pay more for the A+.
The idea would be if you pay for A+, you get that. If you pay for A, you get an A or better. I (and others) felt this was a fair way to set expectations right for the product. I have seen a few different panels that area gnarly. I expect most companies selling these are buying up the rejects and refurbishing them. Remember, these things go on giant screens and nobody puts them under the scrutiny that we pinball folk do. 
So I am going to be doing some more testing this weekend and grind the numbers and come up with what makes it worth doing. If all goes good with testing we will be doing a 100 piece order, enough for 50 panels.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:I wonder if at some point in the distant future, if this project gets off the ground, someone can make a cheaper version of this using single color LED displays and minimal signal processing as you described? Something that is driven by a simple microcontroller and uses the original clock and latch signals provided from the DMD driver board. Would it even be practical to try and source a 160mm x 160mm monochromatic display, when RGB ones are one of the most common types available?
I don't think sourcing them in monochromatic would be be worth it. These panels are only the price they are because they are being produced in high volume for other purposes. I really don't think the savings on LEDs would be worth setting up to manufacture single color panels. Maybe you shave a a few dollars off (if you can find the LEDs in 2.5p) but the NRE charges wouldn't be recouped for a while.
It wouldn't be that bad to just use these for single color uses.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Evening! I just wanted to post a quick update on our efforts to get good quality RGB DMD panels for our projects and to make available for the DIY crowd. I got my test images back earlier this week and the panels are probably already on a slow boat this way.
We made up a little mounting bracket with some legs at 2 different angles for desktop use too.
With shipping and packing to ship stateside, credit cards fees and all we are going to offer tested panels with all the stuff listed below for the DIY folks for $99.
Included:
2 - 32x64 RGB DMD Panels
1 - Black ABS Mounting Bracket
2 - Bracket Feet
2 - Bracket Feet w/ Steeper Angle
2 - 16 pin cables
2 - Power connector cables
I have been getting enough emails about these that I am going to be putting them on our FAST Pinball store in the next couple days. I will update this post with a link when they are online.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Coyote:Aaron - Good to hear!!
Which one of these - if any - allow the mounting into the existing mounting in a DMD game (to replace a plasma DMD)?
You would use just the bracket itself and no legs. The bracket design is based on the footprint the Eli made on the one he brought to me that lined right up on the TOTAN we put it in.
We added the legs to the offering because we could use the space that is cut away from the bracket to expose the backside of the RGB panels themselves. The shape of the bracket allowed us to make more per sheet to keep cost down.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from fly:or you can buy only Black ABS Mounting Bracket ???
Sure. I think we could do that. Help me out, what is a fair price?
We are using little projects like this to work the kinks out of the workflow from design to laser cutting. Lasers are cool........
Aaron
FAST Pinball
All right, the store now includes the kit.
https://squareup.com/market/fast-pinball-llc/rgb-dmd-panel-mounting-bracket-kit
I will have to tweak the photos later (sooo tired...) because the square cropping of the photos doesn't look good.
https://squareup.com/market/fast-pinball-llc/rgb-dmd-mounting-bracket-only
I will add the "mounting bracket only" photos when I get a chance.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Wow! Orders are coming in. Get in before this first lot is gone!
Follow up question for everyone based on customer questions.
Power Supplies: I may have missed it, but is there a power supply everyone likes for these kits? We have a relationship with Mean Well which would allow us to get supplies and make that an option to include with kits also. While it won't be a huge price savings on the supply compared to retail elsewhere, the combined shipping will certainly save a few bucks.
Alternative bracket materials: we can do brackets in other materials if there is enough interest. Different color plastic, wood veneers, etc. Might not matter much for mounting in a pinball machine, but some people have other plans for the panels (clocks, displaying weather/stock market/twitter data). If I could get enough interest in other material we could run them. It would take probably an order of 12 (I believe that is what fits in the 24"x48" sheets we can fit in the laser) to make it worth it. Additional material cost may apply.
I am really happy to help the DIY efforts and get more people making rad stuff in and around pinball!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
PS: who is going to be the first to get one in and running in a CV? I want to see that!
Quoted from Mocean:Very cool. At $9 each, it's clear you're not selling the brackets to get rich quick
Any chance you would share the template so others could take this to a local place to get one laser cut?
Thanks!
You would prefer to pay a local place to produce our design for you instead of buying what we produced?
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from winteriscoming:Ecurtz mentioned wanting to have his boards available through you at the time you ship out the panels. For those of us who have already put in an order would there be a way to upgrade and add a pcb?
We won't be shipping right away so Eli and I can sort packing things together in the meantime. We are practically neighbors up here!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from agodfrey:I would appreciate a power supply option.
I'll work on this tonight and post back with what I think looks good.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Mocean:Oh.. Man. Sorry.
You totally misunderstood me on this. I've got a place that does laser cutting that I drive past every day on my way to work. I figured it would be easy to bring it there and not deal with shipping. It would also give me an excuse to stop in and start to play with their laser cutter.
Anyway, I'm sorry if you thought I was trying to avoid buying from you or something. As I said, I didn't think you were making money on it and so I didn't think it was a rude question. Sorry if I offended you in some way. I really didn't mean anything by it!
I didn't see Eli's post had a download link. I'll check that out. Makes the awkward exchange with you especially pointless. Sorry.
No worries, man. It's all good.
Can't wait to see what you are working on next!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from rubberducks:Would be great to be able to buy a whole kit, lock stock and barrel, and you might be able to add a bit more margin to compensate for all your hard work, which I'd be happy to support.
Getting there. Just getting the panels in was step 1. Demand was more than I expected.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
RGB DMD Panel shipment has arrived! Wow. This was the fastest yet. I didn't expect them until next week.
Any orders between now and Friday I will ship on Monday. Bracket Only orders, as well. I will be picking up new packaging for these tomorrow. Hoping to get a nice thin, rigid option for the bracket only orders.
If anyone working on different projects wants to order bulk panels (think 50panels for 25 displays or more), please email me at [email protected] So far I have been very happy with this supplier and would love to help out with the sourcing.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Ok first lot has arrived. Based on current orders I believe I have room to sell 20 more complete RGB DMD (using 2 panels). We will do testing over the next couple days and pack and ship to send out Monday.
So any stateside orders (and maybe Canada) should be in hand the following weekend!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from djb_rh:I *want* to make a huge bulk order of about 500 of them.
Then I *want* to arrange them into an HD display, which would be nearly 15' diagonal.
Then I *want* to use them as a video display in a room that is hard to control the lighting but needs a TV screen that big.
But alas, the $25k price tag for JUST the panels is a big excessive still, let alone the other $5k or so of processing gear to get the signals to the boards.
But let me know when we can hit $10/each in quantities of 500.
--Donnie
Personal jumbotron!!!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
PS: $10 aint happening. 
Quoted from Coyote:My order will be in Friday. Tryin' to figure out how many I need.. (Not *want*..)
Right on! The number available will go down by then, so that might help you?
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Mean Well makes some solid power supplies. I am adding some Mean Well RS-50-5's (5v 10amp) to my supplier order. If anyone is interested in saving some hassle I can add those to any RGB DMD Panel or Bracket Only order for $19. These should be in early next week.
http://www.meanwell.com/mw_search/RS-50/RS-50-spec.pdf
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from winteriscoming:I see Fast currently has a listing in their store for FAST RGB DMD at $199. I'm curious to know if that's a complete kit. I'm probably seeing it before they have finalized the listing.
Doh! I didn't realize that was on. Too many late nights recently!
But yes, we have a turnkey option in the works. I didn't want to go on and on about it until it was available to order. Been burned before by sharing things too soon without knowing what could drag things out. Yes, I have learned some things over the last couple years.
I will say that for anyone buying panels from us in the meantime, you will be able to purchase the turnkey solution at a discounted price and use the panels we sold you in the new package.
Update on Orders: I was at ULINE today getting new packaging boxes, etc. I discovered that this mounting bracket size pushed us into an expensive shipping category, but I was able to get creative and get the price back down. Phew! I will be testing and packing up all the orders for shipment on Monday.
I also want to say that I have met a lot of new, cool people through this process of providing a source for RGB DMD panels. We really do enjoy the opportunity to bring cool stuff to our new pinball friends!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from ecurtz:$50 fully assembled including Teensy. I have to do a few and see how long/annoying it is to determine the you-solder price, but $40-$45.
Bring up the parts and we can rally together on those tonight if you want! I'll be here LATE working on FAST system wiring diagrams and updating the damn website. Is it sick that I enjoy doing SMD work? As long as it's not a 300+ part controller board, it's pretty fun. We can live stream the most boring Twitch stream ever!
We can open the arcade downstairs on free play and see who wanders in!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from winteriscoming:For now I'm more than happy to purchase from Fast knowing that the risk has been removed, and I'll pay a premium for that.
Happy to help!
If I wasn't so damn busy (and if I had enough 5v to push it) I would setup a mini jumbotron to test all these panels! We will have to do that on the next shipment!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from agodfrey:Well I know I want to get 2 of Eli's boards. I think I found the power supply that will work for me as I need some 12v as well. So just the board.
Since I ordered my panels from Aaron and don't mind waiting maybe I'll wait to ship together, or from the sounds of it together might be the complete kit. So, whats my best option? Go direct to you Eli and have two shipments?
We will be getting together probably Tuesday. I can hold any shipments in order to include Eli's boards. If anyone would like us to ship together, please email me at [email protected] to let me know. If you could include your FAST order #, that would be a sweet!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from agodfrey:For anyone wondering if getting your dmd from Aaron is a good idea I just watched him personally inspect, under a freaking microscope, each individual led from a group of panels to ensure theyll work. To me that's totally worth it!!!
Thanks!!!
Sorry the feed was so flakey. Any "mark-up" as these pass through our hands is going into making sure the pinball market isn't looded with shitty panels.
I took a break to let my eyes adjust and I am trying different packaging to keep the postage low.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Taking Wi-Fi out of the mix really helps! Check out the most boring feed tonight!
Feel free to pop in and ask any questions. Please excuse the karaoke in the background!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
OK I am going to call it for tonight. I made a guess when I started testing the lot of 100 tonight that maaaaybe 4 would have issues. Turns out it was only 3! I have already been in contact with my supplier and they did not hesitate to credit 3 panels in the upcoming shipment.
My task for tomorrow will be to create a methodical way to test these a little more efficiently. The cumbersome part is keeping them from sliding all over the place while connecting and disconnecting cables. It is fairly easy to damage the the pixels so I want to be careful.
OK time for some dinner and then a some more wiring diagrams for the FAST boards. That might be better as a nap and an early breakfast.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:Nice feed! I noticed near the end you adjusted something on the power supply during the brightness test to turn the brightness down from full bright to dim red, what did you change? The amount of current the power supply will provide?
I believe it was powered only at that time by what was available over the USB. It was probably when I switched off the 5v from the bench. When they do not have adequate power the colors aren't right.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:Gotchya, makes sense. That didn't cause any USB overloading issues?
I am not certain. I was getting tired and called it. The hardware connecting to the panels isn't ours so I don't know what it does.
I know my macbookpro disables a USB device if it draws too much.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
I wanted to post a quick update tonight. So Friday night I completed visual inspection. I was working though a lot of 100. 3 failed visual inspection. I guessed I would have 4, so winning?
Tonight I am running test screens on panels. First test, bam, one of the panels has a failed pixel. See if you can spot it in the attached pics. Makes sure any panels you buy get thoroughly tested.
image_(resized).jpeg
image_(resized).jpeg
Ok back to testing and packing!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Answer: Left panel, 2nd row at the 2/3 mark from the left side. It's glaring in real life!
Quoted from pfinny:What test board / rig do you use to test your LED panels ?
I used one of Eli's teensy breakout boards to run sketches while connected to my bench power supply. I created a power wiring harness to make the testing from panel to panel a little easier.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
I had a question regarding whether or not the panels and bracket came assembled. I timed packing up each part separately vs. mounting the panels to the bracket and packing as a whole and it was a wash. This is only because we are testing the panels and packing them in a single workflow to get the first orders out the door today. Getting the panels aligned just right on the bracket takes a little effort and I found that after doing a few of them I got in a rhythm and they looked pretty nice. Assembled panels/bracket makes for more a more enjoyable unboxing too.
For any orders that come in before the end of the week we will continue to assemble the panels and brackets. After that, we should be finished testing the rest of the panel shipment and will have the panels individually wrapped, ready for shipment.
Each panel kit includes:
2 TESTED RGB DMD Panels
8 panel mounting screws
1 black ABS mounting bracket
2 sets of bracket feet (2 angles)
2 16 pin ribbon cables with connectors
1 power cable for connecting the two panels
FAST Pinball Stickers (because stickers are fun!)
Here is a pic I shared in our FAST Slack group of some panels after testing, waiting for their power cables before being boxed.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Coyote:Whew, okay. Wasn't complaining - I love getting home and finding boxes on my front porch! But that seemed a little excessive for a display panel.
Everyone should get one box. I had some trouble with the USPS.com process (you can google 'USPS click and ship" and see others did too this week) but was given unique tracking for each. The post office confirmed they were all right when I brought them in.
Please let me know if you get a massive bounty of panels.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Claires-dad:Aaron, my mounting bracket (and stickers) arrived today; thanks, and very creative packaging!
I had gotten my panels from China and they came in a single square frame, which I sliced in half on the table saw (I removed the displays first). The two half-frames fit fine in the mounting bracket, but I only have four threaded inserts (two per frame) rather than eight. Everything seems to hold together OK, and once it's installed in a game it should be even more secure.
Thanks for making these available.
Right on! I was contacted by others who had also bought the 64x64 panels. I suggested separating them but was also curious how they would secure but you answered that.
Glad you liked the packaging. I literally drove to ULINE with a bin of every FAST board, panel, bracket, RGB LED sheets, etc. and tried different box and packing options. I couldn't find a good option for the panels until I remembered some tricks we used to do when shipping 7" records.
The boxes for the complete RGB DMD panel and brackets were perfect! But they also fit FAST hardware kits for building custom games really well too.
Ok enough nerding out on packaging and back to documentation. 
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Coyote:Hey!
If anyone wants extra standups, let me know. I have three - two tall ones, and one steeper one. (Apparently, somehow, I only got one steeper one. But I'm not complaining- I'll never ever use them, so..)
Oh man! Sorry about that! Cleaning up yesterday after a crazy week I found an extra one on the floor.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from winteriscoming:I'm jealous! I haven't ordered one of Eli's boards yet and no idea when I'll get the one I ordered from the vpniverse seller.
Eli left me with a couple extras. I could send one out on Monday if you want to settle up with Eli.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from agodfrey:I guess people called "scientists" call it "microlouver film". Here is a thread with before and after:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/comets-dmd-glare-guardwow
PinRob gave a me a piece to try out when he bought some of my wares. It's pretty cool stuff. I THINK Comet sells it.
A buddy of mine suggested getting some of the microlouver film to try with these. He thought they had some. I'll follow up with him and see what it looks like. Would be a great thing to ship with panels/brackets.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:I would love to see this as an option!
I will inquire about this tomorrow. I am going to expect we would need to buy in large rolls/sheets as the per laptop screen prices are pretty pricy. I found even a thin sheet of smoke plexi helped too.
I'll get back to everyone when I hear back.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:No kidding! I seriously want one to test on location.
I am going to be packing more panels and FAST boards tonight (our new manufacturing run came in last week!). Just saying, if you ordered tonight it would ship tomorrow and be in your hands before the weekend.
No pressure!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from pfinny:Where is all the information on your FAST line of products, visited your web site but not much there as far as documentation, pricing etc. ?
Like to learn more about it if it can be used to drive RGB LED Modules.
We have been working on getting the content onto our new website but have been swamped!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Keep the thread open. It can start to get back to the topic you started, focused on your board and display methods.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:There appears to be some screen tearing between colors especially during flashing sequences. Do you know if this is a bug or the way the planes are actually displayed from the DMD driver board? If it's the latter that would be distracting.
That is hard to watch. It it specific to that game? I have only seen Eli's in real life, and don't recall the flashes. But it wasn't on the same game.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from mgpasman:I recently acquired a Getaway that could do with some TLC. As it sits currently, it's not worth a ColorDMD, so I would love to experiment as well with RGB-panels as described here. Lately, the discussion seems to focus on patent issues, but is there already a relatively plug-and-play solution that would allow me to map a palette (like 100%=yellow, 75%=orange, 50%=red, etc) and replace the DMD, or is coding always required? I am fairly confident in assembling stuff, but not much of a coder
We can ship panels on a mounting bracket + 10amp 5v power which you can connect to the control system of your choice. All panels are individually inspected and tested. The attached photos are using Eli's board which we can ship together if you make arrangements with him. Visit the store link on fastpinball.com for the display.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from Crash:There's a small gap dividing the two panels in that last photo. Is the fit adjustable?
Yes. That is the bench display which gets handled a lot. I ship the panels mounted on the bracket, but you probably will need to adjust alignment after a bumpy shipment. But when mounted in a game you don't see the space.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from redundor:What kind of kits are you going to have available? Fully plug and play, or screen only, or some combination of the two?
It is a plug and play solution. I am so excited. I was up til 6am building the first few for design testing.
We will also be selling them without the RGB DMD panels for those who bought the panels from us already. Selling with or without the panels doesn't change the shipping costs but some folks were very eager to get started and we wanted to have the panels be interchangeable anyway because they may need replacement far before the controller board ever would.
We won't have them for pickup at the show, but expect to have them in some games and (assuming all the testing goes smoothly) in production ASAP. Sourcing is all established already. This has been such a rad project. I have waited literally years for all the stars to align to have it make sense do to this!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
PS: The few parts I was waiting for came in while writing this post. Sweet!
Quoted from Coyote:Interesting. Assuming this would, in one way or another, be compatible with the FAST board system?
As a display, it will work with different pinball hardware controllers (using the pc to control the display content), ours obviously included.
From there it gets interesting. I think what we have cooking is going to draw in more people interested in making and programming and enhancing pinball games.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from agodfrey:What did I miss?Aaron what is that new board young r there? I see no other talk of it on the forum .....
We weren't just sourcing RGB DMD panels to sell them raw. 
Our board will be sold with and without the RGB Panels for those who bought panels from us in the past.
We haven't been talking about this because we are trying to break the habit of talking about things too much before they can be purchased.
Really excited. I have wanted to make this display for years. We have been watching the price and pixel size come down on the panels to the point where it made sense to do it. Time is now!
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from russdx:It won't be a confusing scattered mess like pin2dmd
(awaits flame responses lol)
@FAST do you have rough pricing yet? Will it be running stock rgb.dmd firmware? or customised version for fastPinball?
Oh wow, I missed this post ages ago! Our price goal all along has been to stay under $300. The RGB.DMD code is customized to do some things needed for some of the other features in the display.
Aaron
FAST Pinball
Quoted from dung:Aaron did you ever get the full kit together? Also, has anyone tested this on an alvin g?
Our FAST RGB DMD is back and running. I don't have access to an alvin g. Maybe someone in the Washington area would let us bring a display by for some testing/get some readings.
We had the display at Expo in the FAST Booth in Fish Tales, TOTAN and in the Brooks & Dunn. Super fun. Dialing in the software portion and also the power integration. Tapping into the 12v supply is easier and more reliable in some games than others. So we want to make sure we provide options for the best results before a broad release. It looks like the $299 price point is going to work too, which was a big goal. There are some other rad features about it that we will layout in detail soon too.
I have been dragging a bit. Been pretty sick since we got back from Expo and finally on the mend. I have shipments, website updates and correspondence to catch up on!
Here are a few pics I had handy of the display.
FAST RGB DMD Front
FAST RGB DMD Back
FAST RGB DMD in Brooks & Dunn
Aaron
FAST Pinball
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