Paris
Quoted from Aurich:Last I heard SmartDMD coloring was struggling with running out of memory outside of ACDC and Metallica
Assigning a Side-Channel palette to a frame consumes 0 memory 
(Topic ID: 140896)
I would love the idea of making this compatible with SmartDMD colorized frames and palettes, but why would you suggest it goes closed source? I think the reason why people are getting excited about this is because it's an open source alternative to DMD Extender, which is closed source and has unofficially lost support.
Olympia, WA
Quoted from jwilson:It being closed source leads to situations like with the DMD Extender, where the original seller drops off the face of the earth and leaves people hanging.
This community is tiny enough that no one is getting rich, so making things closed source only hurts the effort.
Oga83 is justifiably concerned about people directly sharing ROMs which have been modified with his tool rather than macros. If anything is hidden in closed source it will be to help with that. It would be easy to recreate that small part of the code if I get hit by a bus, and Oga will have it as well.
The reality is these games are not open source. And if people abuse modifying them it will bring down heat. And no one wants that.
After some serious mucking about I think I have a way to keep everything simple and working in the Arduino IDE for people who want to mess with the base code, but still able to lock the colorization data to a single board so you can't just use a random ROM you got off the net.
The first 3 boards (with a known issue, but easy to jumper around) should be here by the weekend, as I just got the email from OSHPark that they were back from fabrication. So while all of you are off enjoying Expo I can do some good ol' surface mount soldering.
Karlsruhe
Your teensy like my STM32 discovery board do both have USB ports, why don't you use that
port to upload a SmartDMD license together with the palettes needed for the ROM.
That way you can hide the information in a closed source PC software.
I discussed this with oga and he is okay with it. That will be the way we do it.
Quoted from lucky1:Your teensy like my STM32 discovery board do both have USB ports, why don't you use that
port to upload a SmartDMD license together with the palettes needed for the ROM.
That way you can hide the information in a closed source PC software.
I discussed this with oga and he is okay with it. That will be the way we do it.
I don't think of combining a plain text file of palette information with the totally open source STM32 code as providing any barrier to making the two line change to ignore the check. However if it's good enough for oga's peace of mind that's great. It was interesting to figure out how to call arbitrary ARM data as code anyway so I'll probably continue down the path of having PinballBrowser patch the file directly before upload.
Quoted from ecurtz:I don't think of combining a plain text file of palette information with the totally open source STM32 code as providing any barrier to making the two line change to ignore the check. However if it's good enough for oga's peace of mind that's great. It was interesting to figure out how to call arbitrary ARM data as code anyway so I'll probably continue down the path of having PinballBrowser patch the file directly before upload.
Nothing we're doing on a community level from a DRM standpoint is going to withstand any serious effort to crack. But if there's just a mild gate that prevents the average person from uploading and linking modified ROMs all over Pinside that probably achieves enough.
Quoted from Aurich:Nothing we're doing on a community level from a DRM standpoint is going to withstand any serious effort to crack. But if there's just a mild gate that prevents the average person from uploading and linking modified ROMs all over Pinside that probably achieves enough.
I've actually had to do real copy protection stuff. Believe me, it's no fun from either side. But I think this system will be enough to discourage casual ROM sharing without any extra burden on the user, since they'd have to write the color data onto the board anyway.
Looks like no boards until Friday, so I'll have to work on the boring software until then.
Quoted from ecurtz:I don't think of combining a plain text file of palette information with the totally open source STM32 code as providing any barrier to making the two line change to ignore the check. However if it's good enough for oga's peace of mind that's great. It was interesting to figure out how to call arbitrary ARM data as code anyway so I'll probably continue down the path of having PinballBrowser patch the file directly before upload.
Without the uploaded signature the code will not trigger the smartDMD frames because of a missing header information.
This is nothing you can change by removing a line out of the code.
Here is a video testing palette switching of STERN Logo and POTC Logo
Just wanted to share an update. I've been talking to one of the Alibaba sellers.
They are sending me some more pics and information, but they say they will even sell me the panels without the plastic frame. I've told them what we would ideally want, and I'm waiting to hear back.
They seemed to understand my questions exactly, so we will see where this leads.
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:Just wanted to share an update. I've been talking to one of the Alibaba sellers.
They are sending me some more pics and information, but they say they will even sell me the panels without the plastic frame. I've told them what we would ideally want, and I'm waiting to hear back.
They seemed to understand my questions exactly, so we will see where this leads.
Awesome! Thanks for doing that. Hopefully a reliable purchasing solution comes out of it.
On aliexpress it seems like they only give slight discounts for high volume. I wonder if we could even drum up enough interest to make some kind of group buy a viable option.
I got a chance to see the panel in person yesterday (thanks Brian!) and it was pretty sweet. The whites were pretty good, not too pink or rainbow feeling. It's super bright, definitely pops.
I would love to see more, I'm intrigued after seeing it in the flesh.
Quoted from Aurich:It's super bright, definitely pops.
This is good to hear. This makes it possible to use gel filters to improve contrast and darken the areas between dots. Using this approach also reduces flicker as opposed to just dimming the LEDs.
Quoted from Crash:Looks awesome! Is the "extra I/O" header used for possible expansion to drive larger panels?
No, that would still be sent through the matrix header (if it turns out that the big Sega DMDs have huge throughput you could theoretically double up the output and drive two sections at once, but there aren't enough pins currently hooked up for that.) The Extra I/O is for playing with the PinballBrowser side-channel color, or hooking up buttons or pots for adjusting the screen, or ???.
I removed the power headers in the updated design, there wasn't really any reason to run the power for the panels through this board instead of directly to them.
Toronto, ON
I looked at the model they have here at Expo and I don't see any reason why it couldn't be a plug and play kit if they figure out the power supply issue. I believe they're considering using the high current 12V and regulating down to 5V.
Got to see it installed in a game and playing some test footage of ripped video.
It's very cool. I don't know that I like it better than ColorDMD, it's not as sharp and clean. But it's bright and very authentic looking. I'd love to see more from it.
Interesting... Ive been playing with the P10 boards.... they cost like $12/eac and they just stack together to make any size display you want.
I'm driving them off a very low cost Beagle Bone Black + Octoscroller device... like $50 total!
I'm testing it for my annual holiday display, but Im also on my kids local high school booster club and was thinking we could build a kick-ass "jumbotron" for the sports field REALLY inexpensively...
Quoted from Crash:Any news on board development?
I'm working on the software while I wait for things in the mail. I have the SMT stuff on the 3 boards from my original OSHPark order and am sending 2 of those on to the MPF guys, I'll have 3 more slightly updated boards by the end of the week.
I need dumps of the DMD signals from as many machines as possible, so I ordered a few cheap Logic Analyzers to mail around to people to collect those, but they seem to be on the slow boat from China, even though I made sure to order from a "USA" seller.
Quoted from Mocean:Oh man, why do the MPF guys get to have all the fun?
It's because Brian is so sexy, everyone wants him.
Quoted from Aurich:It's because Brian is so sexy, everyone wants him.
That, and I was able to sucker him into ordering the panels for us to experiment with.
Prototype of PIN2DMD is also on it´s way. PCB design is done. I will solder the components tomorrow and test if everything is working as expected. I added a HUB08 Interface for other chinese displays and a sdcard reader for configuration storage and easy palette editing from
a pc with a card reader.
Anyone want to manage a small group buy of panels?
I'm interested in participating in testing, but don't have any experience with AliExpress and don't like that it's going to require I enter my payment info rather than doing something I trust a little more like PayPal.
Assembled the first prototype today. With a little plastic angle it fits perfectly as a replacement for
standard DMDs. The controller can be mounted on the back.
See more pictures and videos in my google album.
Quoted from lucky1:Assembled the first prototype today. With a little plastic angle it fits perfectly as a replacement for
standard DMDs. The controller can be mounted on the back.
See more pictures and videos in my google album.
https://goo.gl/photos/71JdG2SgaQZPuxFF9
IMG_5669.jpg
Awesome! So you're leaving the panels attached to their stock frames and securing your brackets to those? Is there a lot more added depth with that approach? I'm just curious if that makes the screen sit too close to the DMD window or if it comes in at a similar depth, or even if it sits a little closer, maybe it's not an issue? Could you take a picture of both of your displays from a side angle to show compare depth?
Quoted from lucky1:Some of the manufacturers on Aliexpress accept paypal if you ask them. Just write them a mail.
I wonder if a pre-paid Visa would work... 
I'm just a little leery of providing my credit card info to a Chinese site (not that all the American companies that have my private info in their databases have proved to be super secure...). I guess it's a matter of preferring the devil I know and maybe just a matter of having one less risk of my payment info getting out there.
Quoted from lucky1:Assembled the first prototype today. With a little plastic angle it fits perfectly as a replacement for
standard DMDs. The controller can be mounted on the back.
See more pictures and videos in my google album.
looks promising. can't wait to see what you guys do with this.
That looks amazing!! Great work! A few of questions, can you get a photo or two of the display installed in a game to give us an idea of width, height, and depth? I noticed a few dimly lit green pixels that should be completely off, is this fixable (just a software issue maybe)? Also, the Stern logo scrolling looks kind of choppy on camera. Is it smoother in person, or is the original animation not very smooth frame rate wise?
Quoted from Crash:That looks amazing!! Great work! A few of questions, can you get a photo or two of the display installed in a game to give us an idea of width, height, and depth? I noticed a few dimly lit green pixels that should be completely off, is this fixable (just a software issue maybe)? Also, the Stern logo scrolling looks kind of choppy on camera. Is it smoother in person, or is the original animation not very smooth frame rate wise?
image.jpg
image_1.jpg
The displays just arrived today. The dimly lit green pixels are timing related on the software side.
I tested on bigger panels and wanted to wait how it looks on the smaller ones.
The animation is, how it is sent from the software. There are no framedrops or anything on my
side. We should ask someone who has a Stern Pinball how it looks on a real machine.
I have no idea.
Well, hell. I've never been a fan of the ColorDMD and the large screens used. But this.. this looks to be drawing me in.
Quoted from lucky1:The displays just arrived today. The dimly lit green pixels are timing related on the software side.
I tested on bigger panels and wanted to wait how it looks on the smaller ones.
The animation is, how it is sent from the software. There are no framedrops or anything on my
side. We should ask someone who has a Stern Pinball how it looks on a real machine.
I have no idea.
I actually think it might be a (minor) hardware issue with the panels, since I get some very dim green pixels at times as well, and my code is completely different. It shouldn't be at all visible from playing distance / brightness.
Quoted from winteriscoming:Awesome! So you're leaving the panels attached to their stock frames and securing your brackets to those? Is there a lot more added depth with that approach? I'm just curious if that makes the screen sit too close to the DMD window or if it comes in at a similar depth, or even if it sits a little closer, maybe it's not an issue? Could you take a picture of both of your displays from a side angle to show compare depth?
The stock frames are nice and sturdy and they have a (presumably) standard mounting pattern, which I doubt is true with the raw panels, so if they fit well, which I'll have to double check, there's no reason to remove them.
Quoted from ecurtz:The stock frames are nice and sturdy and they have a (presumably) standard mounting pattern, which I doubt is true with the raw panels, so if they fit well, which I'll have to double check, there's no reason to remove them.
At worst you might want to put spacers at the four corners to back the screen up a bit.
With that in mind, I don't see keeping them on the stock frames being an issue.
The issue might be whether or not they'll keep manufacturing them in these frames. There were some posts mentioning that the 160x160 might be more of a standard. Hopefully it's not an issue.
The panels with frames are 15mm deep. Per the datasheet the Cherry DMDs are only 10mm deep, but that doesn't seem to correspond with how they're mounted in the game, so they must have a pretty large gap between the front of the display and the speaker panel.
I'm pretty sure there is a bit of a gap between plasma glass and the plastic cover in the speaker panel. At least on Data East games.
Hasn't been tested yet, but if anybody has access to a laser cutter or wants to order from Ponoko. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8494826/DMD_Frame_P2.svg
Quoted from ecurtz:I actually think it might be a (minor) hardware issue with the panels, since I get some very dim green pixels at times as well, and my code is completely different. It shouldn't be at all visible from playing distance / brightness.
Have you checked your supply voltages?
I noticed with my pixels that they are very sensitive to over-voltage situations. I had one power supply outputting 12.15volts and it was enough to light some extra pixels.... dialing it back down to 11.9 resolved it completely...
Unknown
Maidstone
Always interesting to see what turns up when you order from China
I found these :
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6975846817.html?orderId=69872696151262
So as they are listed as 64x32 pixel I ordered 2 of them. What actually arrived was 2 of the 64x64 items with ribbon and power cables, which as pictured earlier in this thread actually comprise 2 of the 64x32 mounted into a single frame. So for just over £50 (just under $80 US) including shipping I've got enough panels to make 2 DMD displays. Happy
Quoted from Snux:Always interesting to see what turns up when you order from China
I found these :
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6975846817.html?orderId=69872696151262
So as they are listed as 64x32 pixel I ordered 2 of them. What actually arrived was 2 of the 64x64 items with ribbon and power cables, which as pictured earlier in this thread actually comprise 2 of the 64x32 mounted into a single frame. So for just over £50 (just under $80 US) including shipping I've got enough panels to make 2 DMD displays. Happy
Awesome! Granted you're in the UK, what was the turn-around time for you from ordering to receipt?
Unfortunately it looks like the price has nearly doubled since you bought. Your link is showing a historical page with the price $28 compared to $49 in the updated listing.
Quoted from Snux:Always interesting to see what turns up when you order from China
I found these :
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/6975846817.html?orderId=69872696151262
So as they are listed as 64x32 pixel I ordered 2 of them. What actually arrived was 2 of the 64x64 items with ribbon and power cables, which as pictured earlier in this thread actually comprise 2 of the 64x32 mounted into a single frame. So for just over £50 (just under $80 US) including shipping I've got enough panels to make 2 DMD displays. Happy
Wow what an incredible deal!! We definitely need to set up some kind of group buy for the 64x64 panels. I don't have a credit card so I wouldn't be able to buy directly from them, but would be happy to have a Pinsider ship one to me and I'll pay the shipping difference and a little extra for the effort. I'm currently trying SmartDMD and it's not working out at all. If I can't get the issues with that straightened out looks like I'll be going this route in the future.
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
