I'd colourize Starship Troopers for free if it meant I got a free display... but ColorDMD never returned my emails

That was my impression. I should have phrased it differently. I'm also not a patent lawyer.

I was under the impression that most of the colorization efforts were unpaid/unquantified and that no actual discussion of algorithms has taken place in public. You've got my curiosity now though so I'll pull the patent filings when I have a chance. I can't stand the made-up bullshit arguments because they ruin the SNR of these threads.

Frame detection is key to the colordmd patent.

United States Patent Application 20120190440
Kind Code A1
Perlow; Randall Bret July 26, 2012
COLOR DISPLAY CONVERTER FOR PINBALL MACHINES

Abstract
A later generation display device may be connected to the video output port of an older electronic device which utilized an earlier generation display such as a dot matrix display. The early generation display is replaced with the later generation display. The display device includes software which receives graphic data through the video output port and identifies which frame is currently being streamed. The display device matches the frame being streamed to a stored graphic frame having a higher resolution and/or color. The matched frame is delivered to the later generation device so that the user can experience a higher quality visual effect by retrofitting the older electronic device with the later generation display.

We've been through that before and I don't think it does. ColorDMD are certainly claiming it does. Software patents (in the US) can only be enforced if the method AND the code are the same - i.e. the plaintiff merely needs to provide evidence of their code being an independent effort. Does anyone really believe that other people are lifting Randy's code and copy pasting large parts of it? Even in the US, the idea can't be stolen, only the code can.

That was my impression too. I've never heard any mention of a cut of sales or even pay before ... though absence of disclosure does not necessarily mean it doesn't exist.

I think you need to sit down with an actual patent lawyer and discuss some of this stuff. Because your claims are clearly in contrast with Randy's lawyers, my lawyers, and plenty of others.

The open source software world has been full of run-ins with patent holders, and I can assure you it's never (or at least VERY rarely) been about actual stolen code.

Also, explain to me why PNG exists? It's pretty easy for a comp-sci student to sit down and write a GIF processor from scratch without stealing anyone's ACTUAL code. And yet PNG exists because of a patent. Tons of other examples.

And note that the pin2dmd author is controlling his code very closely so that anyone who sells a board with his code can be denied a license key so that people WILL NOT SELL IT, particularly in the US. Go ask him why in private.

--Donnie

The ColorDMD patent claims are posted in post #892 of this thread. The claims are what set the scope of the patent protection.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_claim

I am not a patent lawyer, but if SmartDMD was leaving off at least one part of the apparatus and including some other part not of claim 1 (and not of the other dependent claims) then they likely would not be infringing. Similarly, the method claim likely would not be infringed upon if one step of the independent method claim 10 is not included in the SmartDMD process and one additional step was used for SmartDMD not included in the ColorDMD method claims.
This is the fundamental reason patent attorney's try to get the broadest claims they can possibly get allowed over the prior art for their patent applicant.

I know this wasn't directed solely at me and I apologize for assuming he was threatening legal action against *anyone*. Also, my post is not 'hate' . I honestly, sincerely respect the business you guys have grown. The patent was certainly a solid business move. I can't think of any prior state of the art ... closest is the work Dr. Ed Cheung did when he was driving a monitor from his WPC FPGA (no color data was inferred from any frames though though).

I don't expect anything to be opened up on ColorDMD's end nor do I expect anything to be free . I want to make that clear. I don't know about others, but I'm of the belief that what you develop is your own and you can do what you want with it.

As far as violating the patent, you're pretty much in violation when it comes to any straightforward approach outside of source/compiled code manipulation from what I've read (i.e. Frame CRC, keypoint analysis, etc). The patent covers all aspects of DMD video frame analysis.

I have *ONE* idea that could possibly be used to determine what palette to use for a current display though I have to admit that I need to watch more games to see if it'd work . Any RGB DMD developers can feel free to PM me though I suspect you may have thought of it already.

At least with patents they expire at some point, copyrights seem to last forever and they cover the same essential thing: ideas.

Yeah I get that. The key word was algorithm but I am definitely not interested in arguing patent stuff on Pinside. I've been through this stuff a few times, my first startup back in the 90's came to a halt about $40K in because Blockbuster had patents pending that they would have been able to kill us with -- not because we were infringing but because we didn't have cubic money to fight back with. They never brought their product to market and neither did we.

Patents are only useful if you have the money to protect them.

Which is probably why people get touchy when patents and hobbies collide. It's easy to forget that this hobby provides a living wage for some folks when everybody else is just spending money they don't need elsewhere. I hate that patents stifle creativity and so forth but if I had patented something, you better well believe I'd be heated if somebody else was profiting from my work.

That said, the guys I know who hold patents aren't worried about competition because they're too busy to look in the rearview mirror.

This is great, is there open-source software to colourize the dots ourselves?

Here's ColorDMD's display installed in Cirqus Voltaire. They clearly used a dark gel film to reduce light bleed and create true blacks.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/welcome-to-the-circus-cv-club-for-owners-fans/page/5#post-3050711

I took those pictures with my iPhone - so take that into consideration. In person, it seemed much brighter than the pictures indicate. You'd have to send ColorDMD and ask about if there was a film over the RGB pixels. Regardless - I thought the display and coloring looked awesome in CV!

It looks like there is some reflection which is why I think there is a film used (not just apparent black levels due to exposure).

Edit: There's a protective plastic that fits over the display evidently.

image_(resized).jpeg

This. Defense fund should be set up that everyone can contribute to, that can be used to challenge and break the patent if suit is filed. There's lots of crap in the patent books that are obvious implementations, and this looks like another one. But that doesn't mean it won't stand. The patent system is broken, especially when it comes to software.

Mounting a glass DMD in the path of a steel ball I'm sure they made it pretty thick.

So you are basically asking pinball fans to pony up to break Randy's patent because 'the system is broken' and so Randy should lose his investment in time and money? If the roles were reversed and you had spent all the time and money on developing, then patenting some technology then others were unhappy because it wasn't more open source, you would encourage others to gang up on you? Perhaps I'm reading your statement wrong, but I don't see how it could be interpreted much of any other way.

Ha, that's a lot of drama you inferred.

I think it would be good if someone wanted to come up with a competing commercial product they simply should. If ColorDMD is stupid enough to file suit with that flimsy patent, I would like to see it broken. Half the students in a CPSC 200 level class would come up with that solution. Besides being trivial, it's also broad as others have pointed out.

Good for ColorDMD for coming up with their implementation and making a successful business. I don't believe the patent was key to success, and it's both amusing and disturbing that a patent was issued for something as trivial and broad-reaching in the description. I'm sure it has stifled innovation, and made business easier for them in the long term, not something worthy of respect.

That was my CV at TPF & I was the one to install it - there was no film or gel covering the 2 LED Panels.

The 2 LED Panels were completely exposed and I could feel the individual LED "bumps" and also the seam between the 2 LED panels.

Kim

I recently acquired a Getaway that could do with some TLC. As it sits currently, it's not worth a ColorDMD, so I would love to experiment as well with RGB-panels as described here. Lately, the discussion seems to focus on patent issues, but is there already a relatively plug-and-play solution that would allow me to map a palette (like 100%=yellow, 75%=orange, 50%=red, etc) and replace the DMD, or is coding always required? I am fairly confident in assembling stuff, but not much of a coder

We can ship panels on a mounting bracket + 10amp 5v power which you can connect to the control system of your choice. All panels are individually inspected and tested. The attached photos are using Eli's board which we can ship together if you make arrangements with him. Visit the store link on fastpinball.com for the display.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

image_(resized).jpeg

image_(resized).jpeg

image_(resized).jpeg

There's a small gap dividing the two panels in that last photo. Is the fit adjustable?

Yeah, I have mine smushed together tightly.

Yes. That is the bench display which gets handled a lot. I ship the panels mounted on the bracket, but you probably will need to adjust alignment after a bumpy shipment. But when mounted in a game you don't see the space.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Thanks for the tip, just what I was looking for!

Just registered on flipperforum.de, but cannot post anything (yet?). So lets wait.

Well my little board came in, and I assembled it. I made an error on one of the plugs, and will need to replace it, but, I'm set!

If I had to do the board over, I woulda added a fuse and an LED to indicate when it was putting out power, to help in any troubleshooting necessary, if necessary. But it mounts directly to the mounting studs of the display. It accepts 120vac or 100vac, and the plug matches the high voltage transformer plug for the display driver board. (So, easy unplug from display driver board in WPC games, and plug into this board.)

IMG_20160325_191509_(resized).jpg

Does the original pinball machine transformer supply enough current for these power hungry leds?

I would say so. You're taking 100vAC and regulating it down to 5vDC. Were these windings originally used for high voltage plasma displays?

The plug I'm using is the 5 pin plug that is plugged into the display driver board. It carries 100vac and 80vac that the driver board then up/down regulates to the needed -65vac, etc. I pretty much wanted a plug-and-play scenario (not block extra transformers around, no hacking into game wiring..) so I decidd to use that plug. So far, so good. Ref next post.

Okay, so my ND film came in. I got two levels - 20 and 50. (Lower number, darker. So, without a film, you'd be looking at 100.) 50 is perfect, if seeing the lighter-than-black dots when off bug you. However, it does dim the display, overall! 20 pretty much matched the existing DMD display (you know, those dots, when off, aren't 'black' either!). I'll be going with 20 permanently on my display. While the separation of colors in the dots wasn't helped nor hindered, it *did* seem that 50 made it more noticeable - likely because of the overall dimmer levels of the display.

Pictures are attached. I didn't use my professional camera - mainly because my CF card for it is toast. So, these are cell-phone images, taken at a locked ISO, exposure, and white-balance, for easier comparison.

Included are three images comapring the three states - no film, 50, 20 when the game is off. And another three when the game is on. (One I happened to get the game in the middle of an animation, I apologize for that..) Then also is a shot comparing the 50 film to the original plasma display, and then finally a quick shot of the 20 on the left, bare in the middle, and 50 on the right. It's blurry, and I didn't notice that until now. I may go back and re-take that one.

The 50 Film left the dots still slightly visible, but also left the colors and display bright.

Enjoy.

The three-film comparison.
3 Film Comparison

Game on, without film.
On No Film
Game on, with 50 film.
On 50 Film
Game on, with 20 film.
On 20 Film
Game off, with no film.
Off No Film
Game off, with 50 film.
Off 50 Film
Game off, with 20 film.
Off 20 Film
50 film on LED panel, with comparison plasma in front.
50 w/ Plasma

Awesome photos! FYI, the pictures attach in reverse order. You may want to upload them backwards and put some text before each one to make things more clear. IMO just from looking at the photos, the 20 film looks slightly too dark. I'm also concerned adjusting the brightness with the 20 installed will draw too much current on the 5v rail or at least significantly reduce the margin of safety for the power supply with all dots fully lit. If you install one of these filters we will have to rethink the previous power consumption discussions because you are essentially driving the brightness/duty cycle up to compensate for lowering the black floor.

Strange, I added captions to the images, but I guess that does nothing in Pinside when displaying them. I'll go back and add some text before the images in a sec.

Yeah, the 20 is dark. For me personally, TOO dark. (Some, however, may like it.)

With the 50 on, and my brightness at 100%, I played two fill games, including LITZ. (Probably 30-40 minutes total.) When finished, I checked the temperature on my little PSU, and it was barely warm. Lukewarm, so to speak. So with my little PSU thingie, I'm not worried in the least. (The PSU in my board above is a 4A max, 5v.) Off of the games +5v, I'd probably worry. Off an arcade power supply, no problems whatsoever.

Now, the real difficult part is getting this film installed. I'm not sure yet how to do it. It's not hard plastic, it is like a film, or gel used in theater lighting. I first tried to install it on top of the foam surround on the speaker panel - that didn't work too well as the display, when mounted, sinks into it, causing ridges and uneven spots in the film. Then, with some precice cutting, I tried to mount it to the display itself. Due to the properties of the plastic, the 90-degree turn (form around the edges of the display to the front LED part) was too sharp, and it couldn't lay flat - therefore also giving it small uneven ridges. So the last thing I want to try is to take the foam surround off, lay the film down, and re-apply the foam. However, I need new foam. Mine's 23 years old, and if I take it up, it will likely rip or the adhesive won't hold any more. So I need to locate new *black* foam/weatherseal. (If anyone knows or has any ideas, I'm open to it.)

The last downside to the film is that it's highly glossy/smooth - which means, it reflects. You can see it in some of the images above, even. I'm not sure how much once it's installed well, but that may actually be a showstopper for me.

Ok I am new to this thread and would love to not read 19 pages to figure this thing out! Can someone answer a few questions?
Is there a specific panel to buy that is best? If so is there a link?
Is anyone selling a kit with the whole thing finished?
Has anyone colored ACDC and if so is there a link?
If There isn't a kit, where do I order all of the parts?

Thanks in advanced

So I can use the existing keyed 5 pin plug that would normally connect to J605 on a WPC DMD driver board to power the LED panels? If the high voltage on my board isn't working this shouldn't matter right? I have the AC fuses pulled on several of my games because I'm using LCD displays in them.

Yup, that's correct. It uses the transformer secondary (incoming power to the driver board) to power the +5v. The plug has two circuits on it, 80vac and 100vac, the 80vac is unused, only the 100vac is used to create the +5v.

I have two extra boards, if you want them, I'll sell 'em (or one) for what they cost me plus shipping. I only need the one I made.

Why are both 100v and 80v header pins marked as 100v on your board? Or was that a temporary thing? You won't need the 80v pin in your final design.

PM sent.

They're not. The top two wires (1, 2 (key), 3) are 100v. Pins 4 & 5 are 80v.

I just thought, have you noticed any ghosting with the type 50 film installed? The flickering green columns are so dim you are likely not to see it at all.

I have noticed the very very dim green pixels on a lot of panels as well. Is this just a design flaw in the china led panels?

I think so. Voltage is bleeding over into adjacent pixels when surrounding ones are brightly lit.

.

Interesting to know that bleeding is a wrong design of led panels, I thought it might be a fault of my controller board. I think also that with buffers between microcontroller and led panel, screen is more stable.