Open source does not automatically mean "free". People tend to confuse the two.

Open source simply means that the source code is openly available for viewing.

Many open source products are also freely available in addition to having the source code openly available for viewing, hence the correlation. However, that's not always the case.

Sorry, but that's not the commonly accepted definition. Hard liners would say this is:

https://opensource.org/osd

Most would *at least* agree you can get access to the source code without having to jump through any hoops like registration. Lucky1 used to distribute the source in an open enough manner that I would give him the benefit of the doubt even though it didn't comply with the above. But now? You can only get access to MOST of the source if you join his semi-secret club. And even then, there's still the matter of his registration system that you can't get access to, because that would open things up for these hardware guys that he doesn't like to be able to use it.

It's not open source if you can't get access to ALL the source code, that much I think we should all be able to agree on.

--Donnie

Latest version of pin2dmd source is completely private though? This cant be open source?

I'm sure lucky1 will correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is 1.27 was (and still is) posted public in its entirety (but still not truly "open source" by the definition that it can be freely used and distributed as it was still non-commercial), but 2.0 requires you to ask permission to access. And even with permission, you don't get FULL access to the registration system (because then you could circumvent it).

--Donnie

The v1 was open source via Creative Commons NON COMMERCIAL license. Not all Open Source is GNU GPL, OR BSD, or MPL etc. There are LOTS of licenses that meet the open source definition.

Anyone can do whatever with the existing v1 source as long as they stay within the CC-NC + Attribution license. Its very clear;

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/

"ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original."

If PIN2DMD V2 is a modification of V1, it must be made accessible to everyone by the same license as he released v1, the cc-nc-sa.

if lucky1 says v2 is not a modification, we have to take him for his word that its not, and it wont be in the public.

The site you linked to is an organization called the "open source initiative". In order to receive their particular stamp of approval and endorsement of your software, they have their own set of guidelines to fit their views of what open source software should be. That organization does not speak for the developers of all software who have released source code.

With open source software, developers can still retain copyright and patents like with any other creative or written work and grant licenses for its use.

As I mentioned earlier, the association between free and open source is quite prevalent, but they do not always necessarily have to go together.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_license
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software#Open-source_software_licensing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_free_and_open-source_software_licenses

There's always somebody handy to kick dents in somebody's hard work, isn't there? What the fuck does this accomplish, exactly?

With Chinese New Year over with, my panels finally shipped. I ordered 4 ... Hoping 2 will be perfect.

I'm hoping to have one up and running for the Ohio show. I can't bring a machine since I only have space for one game and I'm pretty sure I'll buy something there. If anyone here is going to the Ohio show and is taking a game and would be willing to show this off, PM me and I'll keep you posted. Just let me know what game(s) you plan on taking. Hopefully it's one I have that's up and running

Good catch. I did not ever actually look at the license on the code, I just went with what lucky1 himself said about it here and on vpuniverse. That's definitely a legit "open source" license.

If PIN2DMD V2 is a modification of V1, it must be made accessible to everyone by the same license as he released v1, the cc-nc-sa.
if lucky1 says v2 is not a modification, we have to take him for his word that its not, and it wont be in the public.

Not sure where you get that. As long as EVERY contributor agrees, licenses on software can be changed. Sure, once you've released something under a license THAT version is under that license, but you can change future versions to any license every contributor agrees to. ("Trivial" patches do not grant the contributor rights, but "significant" ones do.)

As for knocking anyone down, I don't believe anyone is doing that. I only care to make sure people understand what kind of "open source" this is or isn't. You wanna use it, feel free. Enjoy. Become a contributor. Doesn't bother me a bit. But just know that at any moment the owner of this particular software could lose interest, die, get too tied up to care for a long period, etc, and you might not be able to get a new key for any new hardware you buy/build and thus not be able to use it at all. *shrug*

--Donnie

Here are a few pictures of FAST Pinball's kit and ecurtz's RGB.DMD installed in the Creature we currently have...

0228161401c_(resized).jpg

0228161358a_(resized).jpg

0228161358c_(resized).jpg

0228161357_(resized).jpg

0228161359a_(resized).jpg

Poor quality video here...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-Dud6paVc_Uak9WdndwdlBfdUE/view?usp=docslist_api

Huge thanks to Eli for helping get the display working wonderfully! The pictures and video do not do it justice! In person it's brilliant.

(It's really tough to get good pictures for some reason.)

I ended up drilling one hole larger on Eli's board so I could mount it to the same bolt the display attaches to.

I also used and extra arcade switching power supply I had laying around since it can supply 15a on the 5v line. The top of the head has a perfect spot for it and I even used an existing hole from the locking bracket to mount it.

For 120v I tapped into the metal switch box for switched and fused power.

The RGB.DMD software takes just long enough to let the game boot. If you turn the display on a little early it will sometimes sync one line off(or at least it did for me on this particular machine). But with everything wired up permanently now this hasn't happened anymore.

Overall a really cool display and controller!

Absolutely right, but where is the difference to any other solution on the market out there except the fact that you get more for less money ?
I think that is worth the risk to trust my word that we will release the source again when all contributors lost interest in the project.

But when you release the source that is when people will copy it again and you will have to lock it again. In this day and age if its on the internet people will take it and do what they want with it (use personally or sell it or what ever) Just the way it is these days. So really it either has to just stay locked and NOT be a open source project but just a normal project you work on and give out releases to people who give donations(which sort of is a business?) Or make it actually OPEN source where any one can download it. And yes people will put it on other hardware and yes people will sell it. Just the way it is these days.

But need to make a choice I think?? Its either open source or its not. It cant just be open when you feel like it, really confuses every body.

Sorry, but what are you smoking where that logic holds water? If a third party were to take v1 and modify it and release it then it must be open source.

The original author can in theory release his work under multiple licenses. He is free to chose as it is his.

I think it is sad that all the awesomeness of this thread is getting killed by discussion of open source

But that is the day I and all other contributors don´t care anymore.
Choice is already made
V1 - opensource
V2 - contributors access to source only.

about the charity "business" - very , very bad payment

Sorry if it seems mundane or unfair to you, but it's kind of an important topic. True open source would be pretty easy to understand. True closed source, same. This stuff in the middle? Not so clear cut.

The one thing people need to remember is that the entire point of lucky1's more restrictive licensing is to keep anyone from being able to sell a complete kit (particularly in the US due to ColorDMD's patent). Which currently means you could order a panel and bracket from FAST, and then a board from Sascha (UncleSash), and have what you need. But if UncleSash were to stop making boards then you'd need to DIY or someone else would have to step up AND you'd have to hope lucky1 will give you a key. At any point he COULD choose to stop giving keys to anyone in the US, for example. Or he could choose to not give keys to a different board maker who was "charging too much" or "making one board and thus it isn't modular enough" or "selling boards in the US" or whatever reason he chooses.

--Donnie

Sorry, the discussion started here long before that thread, but I agree, we can move it there.

--Donnie

ecurtz could you list all the features your firmware supports? also is there a guide to setting it all up ie where to download the firmware etc...

Thanks

...or I could fall into a coma over your arguments and endless discussion about this which never get to a point.

I would love to get one of these for my Jurassic Park and lend some time but the current state of this is very unclear. As a software engineer I just want to buy the hardware and gain access to the open source repository. I have an NDA and a very strict Non Compete clause so when a project is murky like this I just can't go near it. If it was truly an open source non commercial project it wouldn't be an issue. Maybe it's not an issue but trying to decipher this thread is really hard is there an FAQ somewhere?

Or you can use the V1 open source code from PIN2DMD from here https://github.com/lucky01/PIN2DMD/tree/master/firmware/deprecated/source
which has a bit more functionality as RGB.DMD and is written in C
instead of Arduino language.

Nice! Can't wait to play around with that when you do implement it.

You are right. I mixed this up since I worked on tooling today.

Wow that is quite a feature list
Can i install your fimware on my own DMD hardware to play with it? (not sell or distribute just see what it does)

Lucky1 ardunio is just an ide that sits on top of a c/c++ compiler. It is just as powerful as the stm compiler. You can compile most arduino projects in visual studio and other compilers anyway ardunio is just a wrapper.

pinDMD3 uses arduino to compile its source. PinDMD2 used a stm32 compiler (prob same one as pin2dmd) both do a good job. They are just compiling c/c++.

Hello Ecurtz.
May you provide schematic about your adapter board for Teensy to connect to DMD ??. I see only pictures, see you have add two more chips in that adapter board and also do not know what pins of Teensy connect to each input/output signal.

Very interesting your project, I prefer it than pin2dmd, good decision MIT license.

Thank you.

Thanks Ecurtz.
I do not want to clone your board, simply I want to test it in a protoboard with Teensy I have already.

May you tell me what references are those two chips ??, I suppose will be some input buffer, perhaps 74HC14 or 74HC04, to improve read of data signals from pinball, instead of connect directly to Teensy ports.

EDIT: ok, I see in a picture that those chips are 3-state bus transceivers 74LS245.
Its not possible connect directly output ports of Teensy to Input Data of Led panels, need add 2 bus transceivers ??.

We got a new contributor who joined the team who implemeted PIN2DMD into Mission Pinball Framework.
It can be easily ported to any other python based application like PyProc

Thanks Pouet for your work

Ok, thank you Ecurtz.

I have been connecting the 2.5 boards directly to teensy without problems. I have changed the pinout to make for easier pcb routing to the connector but will take 2sec to update that pinout file with my pin assignment

Interesting, I have think about to do a new PCB, but directly with the Freescale MCU chip, not the Teensy board, and program it with a JTAG programmer.

Teensy add one second Freescale microcontroller that work like a bootloader to charge binary to main MCU, but then can not to do DEBUG, so to test software if try to add new features is not possible.

I like RGB.Dmd project, better than pin2dmd, and not problems with license legality.

I have come across a project where some one manages to use the freescale debug ports by soldering directly to the teensy MK20DX256VLH7 chip.

Actually here it is
http://mcuoneclipse.com/2014/08/09/hacking-the-teensy-v3-1-for-swd-debugging/

You dont have to have the bootloader (mini54) on your product board. That chip can just be used to load the initial firmware. The MK20DX256VLH7 will boot without it. So you can make a daughter board for programming. This is the direction I have gone with for my custom dmd board. I have the mini54 on a separate board. I literally use once to program the MK20DX256VLH7 then all future firmware updates are done over usb (without the mini54) using this project
https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/29607-Over-the-air-updates which is extremely useful! plan to use this same dfu method with the esp8266 wifi modules, think it would be really cool having a teensy auto update its firmware over wifi

In link has put russdx, that I saw also days ago, there is a hack to JTAG access to MCU for Debug an direct program of main MCU.

Do you have develop all your software without do Debug ??, I think its really hard develop and test software if can not run software under Debug.

Interesting a wireless bootloader to update board. I have develop many boards PIC32 based with Encrypted Bootloader and micro SD card, so same SD card may use to store config data or update board, also I have develop some with USB and Ethernet bootloader access, but never wireless, though I have use a lot the ESP8266 ESP-12 for wifi applications.

Sure provide updates to charge with bootloader is better than provide HEX for write with programmer. My boards also include each one a unique serial number to control each update so may trace it or provide special update for somebody.

I want to see if may apply also with Freescale, though my experience with microcontrollers, is mainly with PIC32 and STM32.

Just don't write code with bugs in it. j/k

Yes, also good solution dump variables values to display.
One question please; Your firmware do not support keyframe to apply multiple color palettes, and some Editor to colorize it ??

Nothing wrong with good old printf apart from wen debugging interrupts.

Yeah i use the KUID as well to lock the firmware to a given device. Stops people just installing your firmware on there own hardware (in a commercial situation) (looks over at lucky1 haha)

Russ, at least you can laugh about it now and btw wouldn´t stop me if I really want to get it working.
Passing the looks over to DJJoke haha.

I think it will stop you getting it working unless you can decrypt the key encoding iv used. AND break the hash code hand shaking the game does on init AND pass the hardware tests it does before enabling the firmware.

Without seriously hacking the .hex file you will not get the pinDMD3 firmware working on another device!

I learnt from previous lessons.

Bypassing is better then breaking But don´t be afraid not at all interested. Too easy to do from scratch
Every protection can be hacked or bypassed, it is just a matter effort you want to put into it.

You guys wouldn't even be having this discussion if you didn't waste time on useless protection and licensing schemes.