(Topic ID: 222595)

RFM won't boot after bringing it back from a show

By ForceFlow

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by ForceFlow
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 5 years ago

Well, I have an RFM that I brought to a show, and it survived perfectly fine. I finally got around to reassembling it today (the first time I have done anything with it since bringing it back from the show), but was surprised that it didn't boot.

The computer has a brand new power supply, and the motherboard caps have already been replaced.

I can hear the monitor turn on. The computer fans turn on. The prism card LED locks on instead of blinking. The fuses on the driver board are all good.

I took out the prism card hoping to see the computers POST screen, but got some unreadable static/garbage on the screen once like there was a connection issue with the VGA cable, but the cable was secure at both ends. I was not able to get that screen a second time, and the monitor has continued to be blank.

I disconnected everything and reconnected everything, but there has been no change.

Any ideas?

#2 5 years ago

I had difficulty with loose connection on the pins on the pc cables. But mine is in a episode 1 so it was at the junction point (I believe dedicated rfm has a longer cable going all the way thru cabinet instead of junction).

You sure there isn't a touchy cable end maybe?

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I believe dedicated rfm has a longer cable going all the way thru cabinet instead of junction)

Right, with RFM, it uses single continuous cables without connectors in the middle.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

You sure there isn't a touchy cable end maybe?

Well, I connected and disconnected, and screwed them down tight, so I don't think that's the issue. I also made sure all the ribbon cables inside the PC were plugged in all the way too, and those seemed to be fine.

#4 5 years ago

I hooked up a spare LCD monitor to the computer without the prism card, and no output.

The power supply has 12v and 5v.

#5 5 years ago

Are you sure memory and/or CPU are fully seated? Thought I remembered someone mentioning reseating processor once....though I know not the most fun areas to be messing with on the rare parts...

#6 5 years ago

I re-seated the RAM already. Didn't touch the CPU.

I've been digging around for a PC speaker to see if the computer is throwing any beep codes.

#7 5 years ago

Found a speaker, but there were no beeps from the computer. Sigh.

#8 5 years ago

Well, I think I've scraped the bottom of my bag of tricks on this one. Any ideas?

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#9 5 years ago

Not a scientific answer, but this happened to me & it ended up being a bad RAM. It was fine before I moved it.

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from jahbarron:

Not a scientific answer, but this happened to me & it ended up being a bad RAM. It was fine before I moved it.

Well, that actually lead me somewhere--thanks

I tried another stick of RAM, and the PC booted

So, I cleaned off the contacts on the RAM that was installed, and the PC booted. I threw in the prisim card, and the game boot and was playing.

The PC should be throwing POST beep code errors with bad or missing RAM, so I'm confused as to why it didn't (and yes, I tried booting the PC without RAM to see if I could actually get a missing RAM beep code out of it).

So, I'll try it again tomorrow and see if it boots normally, or if it goes back into its problem state.

#11 5 years ago

Well, big surprise, it wouldn't boot this morning.

Same symptoms as before--PC fans spin up, prisim card has a locked on LED, monitor turns on, and no POST beep.

I'm not sure what changed in the past few hours.

#12 5 years ago

Ram just plain flaky? Like maybe even a bad solder or trace on ram somewhere?

Is beeping an option in the bios?

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Ram just plain flaky?

I'm starting to think that could be a possibility. I'll swap it out again tonight.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

Is beeping an option in the bios?

It's been default feature for the BIOS since at least the early 90s.

The puzzling thing is that it only gives a beep on a successful boot (which is expected). But doesn't give any beeps on unsuccessful boots (which is unexpected).

#14 5 years ago

I wasn't sure Bios settings for a cyrix board; Also thought it may have been turned off by someone (or even set by Williams), but I wouldn't know why if it doesnt have a speaker.

#15 5 years ago

I have seen a pc motherboard in the past that seemed flaky and would sometimes work after messing with various cards/ram/etc. Don't recall exactly what, but turned out inserting things onto MB was flexing MB enough to make or break some component(s) with poor solder on the MB itself.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I wasn't sure Bios settings for a cyrix board; Also thought it may have been turned off by someone (or even set by Williams), but I wouldn't know why if it doesnt have a speaker.

I had a cyrix PC back in the 90s--it beeped.

There was no option to disable that feature, as far as I'm aware.

A speaker was an optional part. Back then, it was generally a standard 1-2" speaker. It wasn't a critical component, so half the time it was left out to save money, I imagine. Today it's just a small (and inexpensive) piezoelectric speaker.

#17 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I have seen a pc motherboard in the past that seemed flaky and would sometimes work after messing with various cards/ram/etc. Don't recall exactly what, but turned out inserting things onto MB was flexing MB enough to make or break some component(s) with poor solder on the MB itself.

I pulled everything out of the case before the last show and inspected it thoroughly, and everything seemed fine. It was having booting issues back then, but I thought I fixed it with a new power supply and replacing the 5 motherboard caps.

#18 5 years ago

I'm sure you did but, did you use decent low ESR caps? I.E. not some knockoffs off ebay or some cheapo general use caps?

Only asking because I was thinking if they were cheap caps and had been installed a little while now, maybe they took a beating with machine running for long periods (longer than at home say) at a show/event started flaking already.

Not really my first thought, but wanted to throw extra ideas out there.

#19 5 years ago

Man those Cyrix chips ran hot! I had a 166 that ya could cook on the heat sink.

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I'm sure you did but, did you use decent low ESR caps? I.E. not some knockoffs off ebay or some cheapo general use caps?

Hey are the same caps I use for various pinball repairs. Usually get them from GPE, mouser, digikey, etc.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

maybe they took a beating with machine running for long periods (longer than at home say)

Then they only would have had about a week of use total. I don't think they're dead yet, and I didn't notice any buldging/leaking, but I'll double check.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Phat_Jay:

Man those Cyrix chips ran hot! I had a 166 that ya could cook on the heat sink.

Back before there were memes, there were plenty of joke photos of people putting an aluminum foil bowl on a cpu without a heat sink and cooking an egg.

#22 5 years ago

I verified that the motherboard caps look fine.

Swapping RAM didn't change anything.

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I have seen a pc motherboard in the past that seemed flaky and would sometimes work after messing with various cards/ram/etc. Don't recall exactly what, but turned out inserting things onto MB was flexing MB enough to make or break some component(s) with poor solder on the MB itself.

I'm seconding this. if you put a different stick of Ram in, and it booted fine, and you left it in the game overnight and now it is not booting, that really sounds like a faulty MB.....

#24 5 years ago

You may have already said so, did you reseat the processor yet?

#25 5 years ago

So, I turned the game on, and let it sit for about 2 minutes. Then the computer suddenly booted on its own without reseting the computer.

Started a game, and it played fine.

Turned it off for 30 seconds, turned it back on, and the PC booted immediately like it was doing last night.

So, that seems to indicate that there could be heat issue on the motherboard where could be a broken trace or cracked solder joint, or a leaky cap that isn't getting charged up quickly enough from a cold boot.

Are there any other caps on this motherboard that are typically replaced?

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

You may have already said so, did you reseat the processor yet?

No, I haven't. I'm not sure if messing with that will introduce a new problem or not.

#27 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

So, I turned the game on, and let it sit for about 2 minutes. Then the computer suddenly booted on its own without reseting the computer.
Started a game, and it played fine.
Turned it off for 30 seconds, turned it back on, and the PC booted immediately like it was doing last night.
So, that seems to indicate that there could be heat issue on the motherboard where could be a broken trace or cracked solder joint, or a leaky cap that isn't getting charged up quickly enough from a cold boot.
Are there any other caps on this motherboard that are typically replaced?

Would love to see more people chime in with other probs they have solved.

If you didn't use low ESR high quality caps, I would think it would work, just may not hold up as long as originals. Possibly a delicate trace or cold solder joint near new parts? Or a just plain defective new cap??? It happens (rarely).

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

No, I haven't. I'm not sure if messing with that will introduce a new problem or not.

I see both sides of that one. Kinda worries me messing with it too. But also, may be easier than tearing it all apart and inspecting entire board too...idk.

But if it eventually boots, sounds possible to equally be bad cap or trace/joint/connection as you said.

#29 5 years ago

Did you replace the battery in the prism card?
And the cpu?

Bad/weak batteries will cause wierd boot issues.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Did you replace the battery in the prism card?

No. It looks like it was replaced by a previous owner, though. It was giving the correct voltage.

In any case, the PC boot issue happens with or without the prism card. I think it's safe to say that I can rule out the prism card as being a part of the issue.

Quoted from erak:

And the cpu?

Same for that battery. Voltage was good, but I went ahead and replaced that one anyway yesterday, but there was no change.

#31 5 years ago

If your caps are good. Power supply is good. Traces are good and ram is good . Video card is good. Gotta be the processor.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

If you didn't use low ESR high quality caps, I would think it would work, just may not hold up as long as originals.

I installed nichicon caps.

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#33 5 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Gotta be the processor.

Maybe, maybe not.

Either way, I'm still hesitant to pull it since I'm bringing it to a show in a couple days. I'd rather not risk breaking the pins or something--then I'd really be SOL. After the show, I may give it a try if that really is the general concensus since I would have more time to deal with a potential mishap then.

#34 5 years ago

Taking to a show not working?

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I installed nichicon caps.
[quoted image][quoted image]

I see those are the higher 105 degree caps. Thats good. Not sure if they are low ESR ones or not.
Did Ed list as low? He sells both.

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

I see those are the higher 105 degree caps. Thats good. Not sure if they are low ESR ones or not.
Did Ed list as low? He sells both.

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#37 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Taking to a show not working?

It seems to work as long as I give it time to warm up from a cold boot. After that, it seems to play like a champ.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

I see those are the higher 105 degree caps. Thats good. Not sure if they are low ESR ones or not.
Did Ed list as low? He sells both.

Nope, I didn't get those. I just used the standard caps I had in stock. When I was reading about replacing the caps, I didn't see that mentioned anywhere.

I'll be sure to look into that.

#38 5 years ago

Missed that it stayed stable I guess, sorry.

Thought you mentioned gettinf them from Great Plains;maybe not.

Hope it stays goin for you at show
Cool game for someone to bring since it isn't the easiest to move.

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from pacmanretro:

Thought you mentioned gettinf them from Great Plains;maybe not.

I do get caps from GPE, I just didnt get the ones specifically labeled for pin2000 since I wasn't aware of them.

Quoted from pacmanretro:

Cool game for someone to bring since it isn't the easiest to move

The body is no problem. The backbox....ugh.

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