(Topic ID: 16505)

RFM video AMP install advise - Ducksan

By bigdaddy07

11 years ago


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  • 65 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by sportecto1
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There are 65 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 11 years ago

I purchased one of those Ultimarc video AMP setups for my RFM and was all ready for a swift installation. Then I opened the back up and guess what, its not the Wells Gardner but, the trickier Ducksan version. Dangit!

So, before I embark on hacking this thing up, I just wanted to check here to see if anyone has installed one of these on a Ducksan version and if so, if you have any tips or pictures that may give me a little more confidence moving forward. Thanks in advance!

#2 11 years ago

I put one on the Wells and it really helped. Sorry no help here.

#3 11 years ago

I have done it, and yes it sucks major balls, no tips. Will never have to do it again thank god. Just be grateful to know it can be done lol

#4 11 years ago
Quoted from turbo20lbs:

I have done it, and yes it sucks major balls, no tips. Will never have to do it again thank god. Just be grateful to know it can be done lol

Eeeewwhh, your making me think I'm going to need the better part of a day to start this little project. So, much for the 20 minutes I read about on the WG. I guess worst case I blow it up and go Nucor.

#5 11 years ago

If myhomegameroom.com was working I could possibly show you a pic. I did not document it extensively though, sorry for the lack of help. I would rate the difficulty "above average" compared to most wiring hacks. I think of it as a challenge and occasionally like overcoming what seems impossible.

Want another challenge? Try putting Pinbits led kit into MM trolls yourself! Barf!

#6 11 years ago

Which one did you order? Thanks.

#7 11 years ago

See this thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_thread/thread/bd760c8fe8a73911/e7a17e94c2b6eea1?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=Video+amp+on+RFM+%2F+Ducksan+chassis+#e7a17e94c2b6eea1

Or this one from a French site:

As promised, here is a tutorial for monitors Duckscan. The big difference between the two types of screens, it is at the sync because they must be separated on the VGA amplifier.

View of the connector to plug into the screen:
*See Pic 1*

Pin 1 = RED = RED Son
Terminal 3 = GREEN = GREEN Son
Terminal 5 = Son = BLUE BLUE
Terminal 7 = H / V = ​​Son GRAY
Terminal 8 = V = YELLOW Son
Terminal 9 and 10 = Son = BLACK MASS

View from the terminal on the amp VGA:
*See pic 2*

RED = RED terminal
GRN = GREEN
BLUE = Terminal
YELLOW = SYNC terminal
BLACK = GND terminal
GREY = Terminal unidentified

After plugging the son between the amplifier and the connector must be cut between the two halves circles on the amp (see photo) to separate sync. it is written in English "CUT FOR H / V".

That's it, is connect and adjust the contrast and brightness.

P1020653-2.JPGP1020653-2.JPG P1020652-1.JPGP1020652-1.JPG

#8 11 years ago
#9 11 years ago

Cutting a trace on the board? Holy smokes, I'm glad I posted this as that would have taken some time in itself to figure that part out. Thanks a bunch Nibbles for the info, this should give me enough to dive into this. I'll post back with the completed mess, or rather my results.

Yes that is what I purchased.

8 months later
#10 11 years ago

Okay,
I'm bringing this back from the dead because I have fallen prey to the almighty DUCKSAN tangled web of B.S. too.

Basically, I've done all the steps required to make this baby work. I severed the trace between the two half circles on the amp board, made sure the connections matched, hell- I even used the same brown connector and key wires that the monitor was running successfully with in the first place!

Like this:

800px-RFM_AMP.jpg800px-RFM_AMP.jpg

Fired it up... Blank screen.

*S.O.A.B!*

I even added the 5V from an extra source inside computer, to the back of amp board. (w/ground, to ground terminal on VGA amp.)

To here: (Just to see if that was the missing piece/problem...)

vidampconn.jpgvidampconn.jpg

Nope!
Still no picture!

*Mother F@$%#R!*

Now I am here, pleading with those successful few that actually made it to the Ducksan promise land for some REAL working pics and insider tips to finish this RFM off with 5V amplificated monitor glory!!!

Tanks and godspeed...

I am going to go drink about it now.
Tomorrow I'll start fresh again and retrace my steps to see WTF I missed/overlooked.

Also, once everything is fixed... (Fingers (not wires) crossed!) There was another blurb about bridging the diodes/adding a resistor (R4?) on the screen adjustment PCB in the front?
If anyone had to do that as well I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks again!

#11 11 years ago

You've likely got a motherboard that isn't supplying 5V through the VGA cable. The adapter gets its power from the VGA cable you plug into it.

You'll need to find an alternate way to power the adapter if that's the case. Have you checked that the power adapter is getting power?

Edit... Just saw where you added 5V jumpers. Have you confirmed its making it to the board? Can you test the board in another game?

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#12 11 years ago
Quoted from NimblePin:

Okay,
I'm bringing this back from the dead because I have fallen prey to the almighty DUCKSAN tangled web of B.S. too.
Basically, I've done all the steps required to make this baby work. I severed the trace between the two half circles on the amp board, made sure the connections matched, hell- I even used the same brown connector and key wires that the monitor was running successfully with in the first place!
Like this:

Fired it up... Blank screen.
*S.O.A.B!*
I even added the 5V from an extra source inside computer, to the back of amp board. (w/ground, to ground terminal on VGA amp.)
To here: (Just to see if that was the missing piece/problem...)

Nope!
Still no picture!
*Mother F@$%#R!*
Now I am here, pleading with those successful few that actually made it to the Ducksan promise land for some REAL working pics and insider tips to finish this RFM off with 5V amplificated monitor glory!!!
Tanks and godspeed...
I am going to go drink about it now.
Tomorrow I'll start fresh again and retrace my steps to see WTF I missed/overlooked.
Also, once everything is fixed... (Fingers (not wires) crossed!) There was another blurb about bridging the diodes/adding a resistor (R4?) on the screen adjustment PCB in the front?
If anyone had to do that as well I'd like to hear about it.
Thanks again!

I got your PM. I am sorry it was just so long ago and myhomegameroom lost all the pics. The bit about the shorting of the resistor on the "remote board" is to lower the brightness or contrast I believe. If you leave the resistor, I think the screen is too bright, and will not give you a completely blank screen. Regardless it will need to be done.

As for the pics you posted, are those your pics? They don't look to be, and maybe it would help if you posted yours. The thing I recall about the RGB wires going into the adapter... I want to say they have a shielding around them and the inner wire is difficult to strip. I believe I isolated the shielding and only inserted the skinny ass inner wire into the amp termination. In the pic above, you can really see this on the green wire.

#13 11 years ago

Okay,
It's a new day and sure enough, there was some dumbassary (on my part) afoot...

I'd like to preface this with a little tip for working on pinball machines, or anything for that matter.

Don't do it when you are tired, or more specifically, when you worked a full day and skipped dinner because you wanted to "finish it".

So now comes the solution to why I didn't have a picture...

Basically I "accidentally" allowed the jumper wire from the 5V (the one from the computer case) to slide too far forward when I crimped the molex pin down- just severing it enough to lose the connection. (I "Bobbitt'd" it! ) Yanking on it again in the morning (that's what she said...) revealed the crappy crimp.
Some sleep, a belly full of breakfast, and a "proper" crimp later...
Yesssssss! I have a nice bright picture and everything seems to be all hunky-dory, for now! (foreshadowing music)

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the whole "remote board" fix though.
If anyone has a finished pic of that baby I'd like to see how it all works.
My screen is definitely brighter and the images ARE more solid but, I'd like to get a deeper black, if that's even possible on the Ducksan.

I agree with you Turbo...
The stock RGB wiring for the original connector sucks the high hard one. Once the white inner sheath comes off, the bare wire strand that is left is quite puny. I'll probably re-do the stock brown connector with some fresh supplies and some beefier (18-20Ga range) wire, so the screws have something to actually bite on.

Thanks again Pinside for putting up with my shenanigans. (Especially Borygard!)

_________________________________________________________________________________
UPDATE:
______________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for the tip Lukex on the jumper wire "R4". I basically used a diode leg to solder/make the connection.
As for the update...
Here are the pics of the successful upgrade!
Well, I ditched the crappy brown connector + wires to start fresh with a new .100 Molex 10 pin connector and of course matching .100 trifurcon pins.
VGA amp board... My Ducksan needed the 5V added to the back (see page http://www.ultimarc.com/vidamp.html) to make it all work. You'll find an unused four pin connector inside of computer case that has 5V (red) as well as 12V (yellow). The red wire is your 5V and the black above/next to it is your ground...
(Don't forget to sever the trace between the two half-circles too!)

Here is the Arcade VGA amp with the 5V wire soldered to the back (running to the unused red 5V inside computer case) and colored wiring installed. (Black ground from computer case was paired with black wire (ground) from amp board.)
From top to bottom...
Red=Red, Green=Green, Blue=Blue, Orange=Vert, Black=Ground, Purple=H/V.
IMG_1029.jpgIMG_1029.jpg
New .100 molex connector. You can skip adding the ground to pin 2, 4, etc... it's not necessary.
However, on the other side of the white PCB (green side) says that #9 is ground while the white side says #10 is ground. I just covered my bases and did 9+10 for ground.
IMG_1027.jpgIMG_1027.jpg
New .100 molex pins. (Note the R G B H/V V GND orientation on board...)
IMG_1068.jpgIMG_1068.jpg
Use a diode leg to jump "R4"...
De-solder the stock resistor on R4 and re-solder a resistor leg in it's place (see pic) for a deeper black.
(Allows brightness knob on remote board to reach a darker black.)
IMG_1021.jpgIMG_1021.jpg
Adjust all old settings/controls for the new brighter picture and- Voila! All done!
(Note: You need to adjust ALL the knobs on all THREE boards to get the best picture possible.)
IMG_1037.jpgIMG_1037.jpg
Much, MUCH better!
IMG_1039.jpgIMG_1039.jpg

#14 11 years ago
Quoted from NimblePin:

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the whole "remote board" fix though.

It is just a jumper wire (I jumped mine with a standard piece of wire) that serves to bypass the resistor at R4 on the remote board. That's the easiest bit of this mod. You are nearly done.

2 weeks later
#15 11 years ago

OK.....I opted to stick with my Duckscan. I cut the trace on the amplifier and hooked the wires up exactly as indicated. Note, I did NOT add the +5V wire to the back of the amplifier board.

I fired the machine up and I had video. Unfortunately, its blurry and "appears" to have no red. All the graphics are greenish. Any ideas where to go next?

Thanks for any/all help you can provide.

#16 11 years ago

You have to adjust everything that can be adjusted, unfortunately! (Since the new 5V amplification throws EvErYtHiNg off!)

The three RGB color adjust knobs are at the top of the monitor; that board also has two gain knobs (Red & Blue). (Sorry for the dirty pic, it was all I had...)

IMG_1063.JPGIMG_1063.JPG
Be very careful about shocking yourself... It's not usually going to happen while you're adjusting the knobs on top but, just in case! (One hand in the pocket! ; ) LOL)

As for the rest of the picture,
I had the main monitor PCB away from it's four back mounting screws (the one with the RGB 10 pin) resting on a stand so I could adjust/fine tune the other two knobs (H-Hold and Sub-Contrast) with ease.
The focus knob is on the side of the black flyaway, as well as another contrast knob.
Underneath that flyaway is another (white plastic) Horizontal adjust knob.

It's tough to do with one person but I luckily had my wife to help relay the major calibration status as I made the changes.
I did some more delicate fine tuning alone; with with a mirror. (<--- That just sounds weird/dirty! LOL.)

It really takes a bit of time to balance every adjustment but, it's worth it in the end for a better picture!
Good luck Xfassa!

(It still doesn't mean I like that 'effing Ducksan though!!! )

A shiny new LCD monitor will most likely be in my future if I keep the game/or Nucore successor is found.

NP

#17 11 years ago

All I can say is follow the instructions. I ignored the part about adding the +5V and bypassing R4. Once I addressed those two items.....all was good. Duckscan = lots of hoop jumping. Anyway, all is well again in my pinball world. Thanks to all of the contributors!

#18 11 years ago

Special thanks to NimblePin. I could not have done this without your help. Many thanks!

#19 11 years ago

Ducksan = lots of hoop jumping.

Seriously...
At least it's all over now!
Drinks! Drinks! Drinks!
drinks.jpegdrinks.jpeg

No problem xfassa!
Glad I could help.

#20 11 years ago

I forgot to mention, I degaussed the monitor too. That cleaned up some fade in the upper left corner. All looks great now!

2 weeks later
#21 11 years ago

Want to resurect this thread going to try this mod, have ducsan

2 questions.

1. Do I need to wire each individual ground for RGB to the one ground port on the adapter?
2. That jumper you guys are doing for r4 is there currently nothing there or did you have to remove a resistor?

#22 11 years ago

Question 3 what gauge wire should I buy

#23 11 years ago
Quoted from Mando:

Want to resurect this thread going to try this mod, have ducsan
2 questions.
1. Do I need to wire each individual ground for RGB to the one ground port on the adapter?
2. That jumper you guys are doing for r4 is there currently nothing there or did you have to remove a resistor?

Wow, my head is starting to hurt just thinking about this again.

1) I grounded all three for completeness. Not sure it is necessary though.
2) R4 is a resistor. I removed and replaced it with a piece of wire.

I will post some pics a little later tonight.

#24 11 years ago

Ok not liking having to remove the resistor do I need to unsolder it and solder in the wire ?

#25 11 years ago
Quoted from Mando:

Ok not liking having to remove the resistor do I need to unsolder it and solder in the wire ?

That would be the preferred path. I'm not sure how else to accomplish that task without soldering.

#26 11 years ago

Here is the wire I used to connect the RFM board to the video enhancer board. One end of the wire is female (to connect to the male pins on the RFM board) and the other end is female to connect to the video enhancer terminals.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12825863&znt_campaign=Category_CMS&znt_source=CAT&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_content=CT2032227

#27 11 years ago

Here is a pic. Note, this pic was taken BEFORE I decided to add the ground wires.

RFM_Video_Hookup.jpgRFM_Video_Hookup.jpg

#28 11 years ago

Cool thanks , I just worry about somehow screwing up the solder job and it not working at all ... What is the result of not removing the resistor, sounds like blacks aren't black enough? I should know if the mod is working before I have to go that route. Also did you have to do the 5v? Wondering if that's a ducsan thing or a random thing.

Why can't I have a WG!!!

#29 11 years ago

I have to laugh......I also started off ignoring the +5V and R4. These steps are absolutely necessary. The Ducksan is a beast to install the video enhancer. However, it is very much worth the extra effort. There is no short cut on this mod......it requires all the steps. If it wasn't for NimblePin, I would have never attempted this mod. In the end, I learned a lot and have a great looking RFM.

#30 11 years ago

Ok...wasn't sure if the 5v was required on all rfm's guess it is all all with a ducsan. I don't have much experience soldering PCB's so that worries me a little . Can that part be replaced if I fudge it up? Guess I can ask someone with more experience. I did successfully solder in a led to aboard once

Lastly what will be the result of doin all the above work but not removing the resistor ? Want to make sure everything is working before I do that step. Unfortunate as I was trying to keep everything original .

#31 11 years ago

Just get a junk circuit board and practice removing/adding resistors. A little practice will give you all the confidence you need. Good Luck!

#32 11 years ago

Ok... Did you have to mess with the RGB nobs etc??

Oh and what will the monitor look like before removing the resistor ?

#33 11 years ago

The best way I can describe it would be green and blurry (prior to +5V and R4). Once I added the +5V, the colors looked better but the screen looked blurry and out of focus. I messed with the knobs (RGB, focus, brightness, etc) but it did very little to improve the screen. I thought to myself that there is no way the R4 can be causing all this grief. I was WRONG. The R4 made all the difference in the world. It was instant perfection......seriously. Again, do ALL the steps.

One side note, I had a friend who gave me his backup WG. I was all set to install it but at the last minute I decided to fight it out with the Ducksan. It was well worth the effort.

#35 11 years ago
Quoted from Mando:

sounds like blacks aren't black enough?

Yes, that is the problem after adding the amplifier.
The picture is still crisp without taking the resistor out but, the brightness setting (on the remote board) just can't go low enough to achieve that nice pitch-black "seamless" background look.

Quoted from Mando:

Did you have to mess with the RGB nobs etc??

Yes again.
Unfortunately, you have to adjust EVERY knob (including the two black knobs on the flyaway) that is on all THREE boards (Main PCB, CPT PCB and Control PCB...) to achieve the perfect picture. It is a tiresome job to say the least but it's truly worth it if you want to get all you can out of the Ducksan.

Quoted from Mando:

Question 3 what gauge wire should I buy

Anything between 22-18 gauge is fine for this task. (Stranded wire of course...)
I used 20 gauge because it is what I had lying around.

I would seriously re-do that 10 pin connector with the newer .100 Molex set to get the best possible result/connection mandelbloom. Trying to reuse the old brown connector will result in extreme anger, trust me. If you can de-solder that R4 resistor and add the jumper wire then you can successfully re-pin a 10 pin connector.

If mandelbloom or anyone else for that matter has additional questions about the 5V Ducksan monitor mod feel free to PM me.

UPDATE:
I've added more dialogue between my pics to help others with the upgrade.

Also,
The always helpful Ken Layton has this to add from another P2K thread if flakey picture issues on the Ducksan persist.
(Included are the two schematics and the additional PDF for parts required to fix...)
____________________________________________________________________________________
KenLayton:
"My Ducksan CGM 1301, 1901 monitor repair guide. Capkits can be purchased from Zanen Electronics:

Kit # 949 for Ducksan CGM1901 (a.k.a. Merit type 59).

Kit # 947 for Ducksan CGM1301 (a.k.a. Merit type 55).

CGM1301 schematic:

http://www.meritgames.com/Support_Center/Type%2055.jpg

CGM1901 schematic:

http://www.meritgames.com/Support_Center/Type%2059.jpg"

#36 11 years ago
Quoted from NimblePin:

I would seriously re-do that 10 pin connector with the newer .100 Molex set to get the best possible result/connection mandelbloom. Trying to reuse the old brown connector will result in extreme anger, trust me. If you can de-solder that R4 resistor and add the jumper wire then you can successfully re-pin a 10 pin connector.

Oh geez this to! I have a white molex conector to connect to the amp but I did not get "male" connector. The Well Gardner is 100X's easier oy vey!

#37 11 years ago

So...I got the supplies to do this tonight..decided to do a quick test...when I put the red probe of my multmeter here....
vidampconn.jpgvidampconn.jpg
and my black lead on some nearby metal I read 4.93V
So I am thinking maybe I got lucky and dont need to run the power from the CPU that would be nice!?!?!

#38 11 years ago

Update! Mod installed, have not yet removed resistor. I have a very bright picture, colors are perfect, black level is decent. But...as xfassa mentioned its very blurry..kinda like I just got out of the clorine pool with my eyes opened and looked at a light If I turn the contrast way down its good,but too dark. So hoping removing that resistor will do the trick and I wont have to get too crazy with the adjustments becacuse getting back there is a BIATCH!

RFM.jpgRFM.jpg

#39 11 years ago

Remove R4 and it will be perfect. Nice job!

#40 11 years ago

Cool, I will probably do that tomorrow. Want to do some quick practice first..or maybe I will have a buddy who is good at it do it for me. I cant wait really want to do it now LOL.

Xfassa thanks so much for pointing out the wires you used, I used the same ones and they worked perfect. I did not do the grounds for RGB...so hopefully as pointed out they are not necessary.

Also...I did not need the 5v lucky me!

#41 11 years ago

Without the +5V, my reds were missing. I just had blurry greens.

I don't recommend doing this but there is a no solder option. You can clip the resistor out (leaving the wire legs still soldered in place) and jumper with a wire that has alligator clips on both ends.

#42 11 years ago

You can use these clips. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062234

All you have to do is slide off the plastic end, insert the wire and slide the plastic back over the wire to secure it (and make contact) with the clip. Repeat on the other side of the wire and you have yourelf a temporary solderless fix.

#43 11 years ago

Ill just do the solder job..hopefully it wont require any adjustments after that and I will be super happy...if it does hopefully they are on the PCB with the connector its much easier to get to

#44 11 years ago

I got the resistor out and bridged it...still blurry cant seem to find all the nobs only found sub-contrast and the ones on the board above the monitor. I am thinking focus may help? But cant get to it.

#45 11 years ago

Here are a few videos of how it looks now..I found the subcontract, other brightness and focus. I think the last two are as good as they are going to get..sub-contrast really cant see without a mirror or some help. I think it looks very good now...I feel as if the very finely detailed text such as the score has the slightest bit of fuzziness...but maybe its always been that way and just didnt notice Have not messed with the red or blue gain or the RGB nobs yet.

Ignore the flickering and temporary losses of focus thats the camera


#46 11 years ago

Here is just a still pic similar to one taken by nimble pin.

photo.JPGphoto.JPG

10 months later
#49 10 years ago

So I've finally tackled the amp mod myself and got it done with no shortage of gnashing of teeth.

The picture looks ten times better now, but I'm seeing one problem. The picture has wiggles in it from time to time, and always on the boot up screen and the match screen. It doesn't always happen but it happens enough to be annoying. I went through all this work to improve the video after all.

Anyone have any ideas? Hopefully it's a simple adjustment.
IMG_7004.JPGIMG_7004.JPGIMG_7005.JPGIMG_7005.JPGIMG_7000.JPGIMG_7000.JPG

#50 10 years ago

I'm guessing you've tried adjusting the nobs at the front of the chassis already. Any chance you could snap a quick photo your wiring, both to the monitor and the amp?

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