Wayout, you’ve been very helpful to me. I found this two year old post you’d made. I am curious how the bulbs are driven. When I received my RFM a few weeks ago, it had most bulbs replaced with LEDs. Today, I tried to replace some burned out lights, mostly bulbs, but also some LEDs. My replacements were all to be LEDs. There is a cluster of bulb locations (11B, 12B, 13B, 14B, 15B, 16B, 17B) near the bottom of the playfield, all in a single column in the matrix, that burned out the LEDs nearly instantly. Checking with a multimeter (difficult to get a true reading since they’re blinking all the time during lamp tests), these positions, all on the same PCB seem to have higher voltage than others, maybe 2 or 3 times the typical readings.

It almost seems like a crossed wire is causing a doubling up of lamp voltage, if that’s possible. It may be these positions, for whatever reason, will only work with incandescent bulbs. Or, maybe...?

This is my first solid state pinball machine. I am pretty good at troubleshooting my old EM machines, but I am somewhat at a loss here.

First, I recommend you brush up on your diagnostic skills for digital electronics. Read the WPC lamp circuit theory, because Pinball 2000 is similar, if not identical. The most likely cause is some type of column circuit failure. If a transistor has shorted on, a row or column of lamps will be turned on for a longer time, and hence be brighter - checking the column transistor may be a good starting point. From there, the easiest method would be to compare measurements at points of the column circuit that has failed to one that operates correctly, to give you a reference of what you should be seeing.

wayout440
I found a section in pinwiki.com on Williams WPC tech. Are there other specific documents you recommend? I can also go back to my experience as a kid in the pre-digital electronics age, as these seem to be good old fashioned discrete driver transistors, nowadays controlled by a digital circuit. If the trouble is at that level (and from what you describe this seems likely) I have a fighting chance.

When you mention “compare measurements at points of the column circuit that has failed to one that operates correctly“. If the transistor or associated passive components is not the cause, do you mean downstream, i.e. toward the lamps or upstream toward the digital controller?

Thanks again for letting me reach out to you.

Hello together,
yesterday I installed the shaker and knocker with the "original" loom of Applejuice. Shaker has been built by my own (Torpedo 800 engine; 12V, 65W and a fuse 2,5A). The knocker is as recommended here from Data East.

Unfortunately it blows my fuse 101 after testing directly. I already exchange it two times

Then I disconnected the knocker and tried only the shaker. Starting a game you can feel the shaker but during its activitation phase my flipper flinger are flipping in parallel to the shaker....after a while /some seconds it is followd by the TILT as mentioned some posts earlier. My fuse 101 this time was not blown...but maybe if your are going to repeat that it will blow!?

In post #3253 it has been explained that after installation of a diode and resistance the above described problem seems to vanish. But applejuice has stated that you can use the shaker/knocker without it.

Please see photo of my board and Shaker&Knocker.

Some ideas/recommendations?

P.S.: I had the need to postpone my tilt form rhs to lhs....and I had to put the original board cable from lhs to rhs; some posts earlier this had been already described by Applejuice.

IMG_20191029_213900 (resized).jpg

IMG_20191029_220314 (resized).jpg

....the only point in which my board differs from the installation guide of Applejuice: in my RFM on the board J106 is used instead of J107 (left bottom on above picture; where a lot of red cables and some yellows are going in). I am not sure if this is relevant...

J107 - A lost connection?

In the process of diagnosing a controlled lighting problem, I did some testing on the main drive board. There is a J107 connector block, all wired up on this board, but no connector attached to it. My machine was manufactured in June, 1999. Was this connector used in early examples but then found unnecessary? Was it to allow extra driver capacity for future P2K games? Just curious.

Man oh man... I just finished my cabinet restoration, having this machine cleaned up... new piece of glass, freshly rebuilt CRT, and new speakers... it really is quite amazing! What a difference! Still a keeper!

Can someone point me in right direction for obtaining a copy of the RFM Roms for pinbox ?

Thanks

F101 is the 50v fuse for the voltage being given to the knocker. It has nothing to do with the shaker. On this problem you need to check :

1) the fuse value is a 4A slow blow
2) the transistor drive for the knocker is good - Q44
3) the coil used for the knocker is good and either a 26-1200 or 23-800
4) there is a diode on the coil

Regarding the shaker, there are many different shaker motors with different specs and powers it seems. My setup works perfect, but maybe your motor is creating more spikes or something that need suppression. Its hard to tell without seeing the game. Try adding a 3A diode 1N5404 or similar in series with the power input wire and shaker fuse. It shouldn't hurt and will only drop the voltage input alittle. A diode in parallel with the motor is another idea like with regular coils. *Please note, these are just ideas, not a guaranteed solution!

v2.2 Goes live 12AM October 31st GMT. Available at https://mypinballs.com

rfm_v220_update_splash (resized).jpg

Update notes are:

v2.20 RFM Update

Attract - Added mypinballs logo to software version screen
Attract - Added clock and date display with adjustments
Attract - Added midnight madness ready detection to clock display
Attack Mars - Lowered default champ score to 200mil
Scene - Added midnight madness ready detection
Martian Bombs - Added new playfield lamp effect to aid player when martian bombs are lit (using shooter lane GI lamps)
Midnight Madness - Added New Mode. Start a game close to midnight…
Tower Struggle - Added more shaker effects - To martian splats and saucer explodes
System - Fixed problem with optional martian lamps showing up in lamp test as broken
Bonus Wave - added new lamp effects for active wave using saucer and mode feature lamps
Bonus Wave - added new lamp effects to show global game progression during mode
Drive in Demolition - added More shaker effects to tank and car/truck weapons
Party Modes - New feature. Select special flipper options for party play
Happy Hour - Added new feature for ‘drunk’ flippers

XINA 1.32
Lamps - Add option to ignore lamp test. For use if LEDs are installed
Lamps - Added experimental RC charge and decay values for better LED lamp testing
System - Improved some Adjustment setting housekeeping
System - Added new menu item for party modes
Flippers - amended the logic for bad eos switch flipper retriggering as this conflicts now with a no hold party mode.

and the full list is available at https://www.mypinballs.com/software/rfm/code_updates.jsp

Please donate if you like this software and you want more updates in the future. Donations help support this and our other many pinball projects.

Hopefully his helps taken from the Revenge From Mars Operators Guide Section 3 Game Wiring and Schematics
Updated page 3-7 the Solenoid table and Page 3-9 added the Shaker and Knocker info - I added them here as the circuits are Drive Bank D (flashlamps) and do not have any diode protection on the Power Driver and normally are Flashlamps on SWEP1

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Thanks for doing this. I am updating the instructions sheet i created for the install. If you could send me the hi res versions of your images, specifically the wiring diagram one then i'll include it in the instruction sheet along with the shaker template and my instructions info. From now on i'll include 2 1N4007 diodes in the loom kit and refer to adding a protection diode for both devices. Just easier and covers all bases. There's just too many variations to try and sort it out individually.

Sorry I took so long to get back to you:
I would start with the lamp testing process that confirms the problem is on the board, to rule out the playfield as playing a part. The driver transistor is the typical weak link, although other things can contribute. If you find the signals going to the drive transistor are whacked, just move upstream from there. Only so much can be wrong with the "channel" if other columns are working correctly, and usually won't extend further upstream than the driving PIA.

This is an excerpt from the WPC lamp testing in the repair docs:

Testing the Lamp Columns.
If a TIP107 transistor that drives a lamp column is suspected as bad, test it:

Remove the backglass and fold down the display, to gain access to the Driver board.
Turn the game on.
After the game boots, press the "Begin Test" button in the front door. Go to the Test menu's "All Lamp Test" test.
Unplug the row connectors at J133 (or J124 on WPC-95) and column connector at J137 (or J121 on WPC-95). These are on the lower right portion of the Driver board.
Connect an alligator test lead to row connector pin 1 of J133 (or J121 on WPC-95). Pin 1 is the right most pin, as facing the board.
Connect the other end of this test lead to one lead of a 555 light socket. One can be temporarily borrowed from a playfield lamp (make sure the lamp works first!).
Connect another test lead to the second lead of the 555 light socket.
On the other end of the test lead, clip on a 1N4004 diode, with the banded end away from the alligator lead.
Touch the banded end of the diode to column connector J137 (or J121 on WPC-95) pin 1. Again, pin 1 is the right most pin, as facing the board.
The lamp should flash.
Move the diode/alligator lead on column connector J137 (or J121 on WPC-95) to the next pin. Again, the lamp should flash.
Repeat the previous step, until the last pin of column connector J137 (or J121 on WPC-95) is reached.

If a lamp column tested doesn't give a flashing test lamp, that column is bad (or the test diode is reversed!). No light or a non-flashing, bright lamp are signs that the respective column TIP107 transistor is bad. Test the transistor as described in Testing Transistors and Coils.

No problem. I took the opportunity to get up in my own two feet, based on your first response, and diagnose the issue. However, I have copied and pasted your latest response to my personal journal as reference material on my repair efforts for this machine.

Because that particular lamp column was running bright, in fact burning out every LED I had put into it, I went to the Power Driver board to test all the TIP107s, using the test I found in the WPC95 document I had found. That test is to check for a short between the tab (collector) of each transistor and the 18V supply. I found none. Then, I tested the resistors between these transistors and the junction blocks, J106 and J107. One resistor, R282 was shorting to ground. Taking the resistor out of the circuit, it tested okay. That brought me back to a more extensive test of its associated TIP107, Q6. It turned out to be the source of the short. To be more certain I had actually isolated the cause, I also tested the components upstream of Q6. Everything directly upstream, two resistors and an IC seemed okay. I replaced Q6 and the lamps (new LEDs) are now behaving properly.

I also gave the Power Driver board and all its connectors, which look like they hadn’t been touched in 20 years, a good dusting and vacuuming.

For others with a similar plight, I also found a good Pinside topic started by Holy-SNES about the RFM Power Driver board that was also helpful,

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-2000-revenge-from-mars-power-driver-board-lamp-issue

I just picked up some from Marco Specialties, 5647-12693-19. Same part number as original Williams, though it is really an equivalent. You will need to reuse the original diodes or buy those also (IN4004). I needed to replace 2 out of 3 upper rollover switches plus the one in the right outlane on the machine I just acquired.

For those interested, my shaker and knocker instruction sheet is now updated with more info including knocker wiring installation, diode placement and a recreated rfm solenoid table. Download from same place as before at https://mypinballs.com

Hi,
the problem with the knocker I have solved... thanks for the hint with Q44.

Regarding the shaker:
I have installed the recommended 1N5404 in serie with the fuse and in addition the 1N4004 in parallel to the motor....no changes. The flipper bats are both activited in parallel to the shaker!...and the tilt is activated after 2-3 times of Shaker usage.
I will try to put a 2nd 1N5404 in serie.

Another idea? Especially the activitation of the flipper bats in parallel to the Shaker let me wonder.

Thanks in advance.

I also had the same fuse burning on shaker activation. Never happened after the addition of a diode

My Crt monitor gave up.
But just for fun i tried to connect a lcd monitor via a vga cable but i could not get it to work.
It only said something like need to change to 1920*1080?
Need some adapter /converter?

You need a sync combiner and a CGA->VGA converter.

Sync Adapter:
https://mypinballs.com/electronics/store.jsp

Converter:
https://www.amazon.com/Paddsun-Converter-Output-Monitor-GBS-8200/dp/B01IBJCAIG

Thanks.
Actually i have a original crt i am going to pick up saturday just 30min from here.
Lucky me!

That’s the way to go! Lots of people like the LCD... I’m not one of them. The CRT just looks so much better in my opinion. I keep one as a spare.

Yes first i just change the chassis board to see if thats whats broken.
Is it broken i let someone who know fix it.
So i might end up with a spare to.

I used to feel this way. Once I decided to go Pinbox, LCD with Applejuice's software upgrades look much better.

Most likely will be the chassis board that needs repair

If it is the Ducksan Chassis, then most probably it is a bad flyback (which is unobtainium) -> means beyond a repair or fix.
The Dell 24" LCD (U2410) i put in mine (bought it without CRT inside) is a direct swap without the need of converter etc.

So no need for sync adapter or
Cga-vga?
Just plug in the vga cable direct to the computer?

Exactly! It is able to display the native Pin2000 VGA resolution - i just did enable 4:3 aspect ratio on the Dell and it fits also perfect inside the head box.

Okey interesting.
Would you like to take a picture and show

Original DuckSan monitor available. Virtually no screen-burn. I can see just the slightest ghost of burn-in from the credits but have to look very closely. I was going to recap this and replace. I had a NOS Wells that I dropped in instead.

$200. I would prefer not to ship this, but can at buyer's expense.

Just a few old ones:

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For anyone interested, in the pic the result of my LCD setup. Dell 2007FP (ips) + sync converter from Mypinballs + CGA/VGA converter + scanline generator. Dell 2007 FP is 4:3 and just drops in exactly. Very important is to set properly low brightness/high contrast and sharpness (sharpness I did set to 0). Adding a scan line generator (very little device, powered directly by vga and 25$ on ebay) adds scanlines effect as a CRT, this can be really appreciated with big image sprites like the big green alien, without scanline generator the quality difference was very clear.
To all CRT lovers: I 100% agree CRT is the best (and original), but my Ducksan did fry (nice sparks and fireworks and smoke when he did, by the way), I had no skills to repair and I would never come back, I'm really satisfied with the quality now. And the weight now is half.
My ducksan was donated to a "black belt" professional CRT technician a couple of years later, and now sits in his RFM so my crt karma love is preserved.
Cheers.

IMG_6461 (resized).JPG

I like the added touch of the scan line generator! I was contemplating this when I first started my restoration. I think it really makes a huge improvement to using the LCD. If I didn't have a CRT, I'd go this route.

I have some problems.
I thought my monitor was broken, but when switching to another monitor same no working screen.
I have power to the chassis, power to lamp and playfield all works.

Could it be the psu in the computer anyway?
Or what could be the issue here?

I was directed to post here to get some opinions. If some members would not mind, could you pop over and check out my thread here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rfm-test-report-errors#post-5297466

I have my machine 100% now but there a few unanswered questions and opinions I was hoping to get. Thanks!

If the computer doesn't start you will not get up to starting a game with lamps and pf working.
Also you should be able to hear if the fans (CPU & PSU) are whirring.

A comon problem are the 5 electrolitic caps on the motherboard drying out, had three Pin2000 in the past and two of them had this exact problem.
If this happens the PC will not start at all.

Just got v2.2 loaded - thanks to Jim for a job well done - you've truly made RFM a more valuable pin by making it's playability even better....remember to support Jim and his efforts by buying the loom for the knocker/shaker or heck anything else he has on his site (like my blackout board!) for sale....thanks again Jim - love the drunken flippers....great touch!

Matt

Anyone w/ a Nucore system been able to success apply the new SW updates if so - how did you do it? I have the wiring loom, shaker, knocker and can't wait to try midnight madness - any tips on how to manage?

Appreciate the help and step by step instructions greatly apprecated

I am pretty certain you can update Nucore/pinbox just like you would a factory machine via serial rs232/null modem cable and a laptop. There is a port just to the left of the coin door when you open it. I'm not sure what the actual fupdate command you type in but if you Google RFM fupdate I bet you will find a post I this thread detailing everything.

Here is a YouTube link that might help you out:

Why not read my update help instructions on my website to? The video posted is based on what I noted down! Updating pinbox/nucore is fairly straightforward but not as clean as original games as these systems were meant as fixed emulation types. We work round this though

I followed Jim's clear instructions for update and it was simply and straight. Just connect monitor, keyboard, and mouse and in 5 minutes I rebooted and voilà, 2.2 up and running on pinbox. This update is great!

Updated my game code from V2.0 to V2.20 with no problems using Applejuice's guide.

Essentially, the Pinbox directions and methods specified with file placements on the hard drive and such, are identical to Nucore, same identical software structure for pinbox and nucore.

I also looked at 'Eli the tech guy' tech help videos on YouTube and learnt some basic Linux command line/terminal file management commands and syntax, mounting USB thumb drives, and using the Linux built in text editor 'VIM' to modify config entry for LED's fault monitor on/off and other adjustments on the fly on the command line. Helped my understanding of Linux immensely. Eli is the Man!!

I found that Ubuntu supplied with the original Nucore program install didn't include a windows style GUI to use, meaning you have to work on the command line, or at least that was my experience. Maybe the pinbox install does have a GUI available and maybe, if your talented enough, on the command line, you could setup the TCP/IP protocols, go online, and fetch a GUI to use (there's heaps out there), I found with Eli's instructions I didn't need to go that far.

I took notes for future work as more software code updates happen, if we support Applejuice of course, maybe even more great improvements can happen!

Bonus Points for the first person to spot the 'Drunken Flippers' option! I snook that in there for people to turn on when you get your mates round and not say anything!! ha ha ha

Tried the update followed the instructions w/ root access on Nucore now doesn't boot properly and receiving this error message...

fatal error (resized).jpg

So to add a little bit more color to the post. Was running Nucore 2.25 up to this point and fully working - followed all the instructions to a tee, root access etc. removed and replaced the files in both instructions sets (both the youtube clip and pinballs instructions) but now machine gets caught in an endless loop the error screen captured above was inbetween the loop where essentially the Nucore bootup screen comes on then black screens to this. Which once again leads me to the question is anyone w/ Nucore running this update? I know that everyone is saying pinbox file structure is the same as Nucore but if that was the case then the udpate should have worked as I accessed all the files and replaced according. I believe most are using pinbox who have applied the update but would like to hear from someone using Nucore on if they had any issues. And thanks to all on this forum for the help.

Nucore will run it fine.

Post what’s in the folders you changed so I can see the file names and sizes

Sometimes the update.bin file isn’t recreated correctly and sticks at 0 bytes. In this case just delete it and try again with a reboot

Thanks for the follow up here's the update bin file

RFM Update (resized).jpg

From everything I have read, it really should just work. I would gather all requisite files again and checksum. If hashes for checksum are not known, have the creator generate them (MD5 works easily enough) with a tool like GTKHash - that way you can be certain there is no corruption in the files uploaded/downloaded/transferred.

Got it to work. Removed all prior files but kept NVRAM archives and that seems to have done the trick. Thank you to all pinsiders and everyone who made this happen. Gotta say this is best group of people out there. Now to install the shaker and knocker!