(Topic ID: 89874)

RFM: "Hillary, come here! You gotta see this!"


By kjm8888

6 years ago



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#1051 4 years ago
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

rob anthony is one of the few guys in the country that work on these, give him a holler.

http://lockwhenlit.com/ is his site correct?

Quoted from Zitt:

Wow ... yes... that looks like EARLY alpha code.
I'd serious consider updating to a later version before chasing any bugs.

Definitely some game play differences I am noticing between this and a 1.6 machine, I wonder if this is the earliest version of the game as I doubt there was a 0.0 and if I should preserve it for future generations.

Quoted from Tickerguy:

What's the serial number on the game (if the sticker is still on the front)? I wonder if you have an early prototype.

Picture attached, but this serial might just be for the coin door itself since Marco carries one with a similar part number:

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/09-9602

serial_(resized).jpg

#1052 4 years ago

Its because of early code, there are also some lamps in wrong places. Just update it and it will propably play correctly. I think that code was for prototype playfield.

#1053 4 years ago
Quoted from pumpkinlad:

http://lockwhenlit.com/ is his site correct?

Definitely some game play differences I am noticing between this and a 1.6 machine, I wonder if this is the earliest version of the game as I doubt there was a 0.0 and if I should preserve it for future generations.

Picture attached, but this serial might just be for the coin door itself since Marco carries one with a similar part number:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/09-9602

Yeah - that's coin door info, not game info, just for the record.

#1054 4 years ago

Yeah, no, the serial number label was/is on the OUTSIDE of the cabinet, right side below the coin door.

#1055 4 years ago

Yeah, this game likely was an engineering sample at one point (though the playfield has since then been replaced). They commonly remapped switches depending on what version of the whitewood was originally in the game. At the time the software was written, they were assembling the harnesses in the test lab by hand, and things changed prior to production.

As previously stated, update the ROM code and then see if that fixes it. Sounds like you've got a production playfield mixed with test software (hence free play only).

Though I am curious what the cabinet serial number is. Mine is on the back of the cabinet outside. Nice find

#1056 4 years ago
Quoted from pumpkinlad:

Definitely some game play differences I am noticing between this and a 1.6 machine, I wonder if this is the earliest version of the game as I doubt there was a 0.0 and if I should preserve it for future generations.

Your 0.1 code will remain preserved. P2K updates work by applying patches to the code contained on the ROMs. The ROMs themselves never change. So you can always revert updates and get your original 0.1 code back.

#1057 4 years ago

You can go into the menus and shut off the update code; what you update with is flashed, but the base ROM code does not change. It's not actually patched, it's a second partition so the game can boot if something happens to the flashed code (e.g. it gets corrupted, etc)

#1058 4 years ago

Wish you the best and hope it's just a FLASH upgrade for the Prism card.

I worry a little, however, that the prism card is bad and not holding the updated image correctly, so you end up running the "extremely early" version the they put into masked rom.

Let us know what you find!

#1059 4 years ago

I am rather surprised it never got updated since it has lived its entire life up to this point at Bally in Chicago, but then again the last thing I usually do at work is extra work. Attached the other tags I found on it indicating the back box and cabinet itself aren't early production runs from my research, not entirely sure about the playfield itself.

As far as the update, I just need a computer with serial port, a null modem cable, the Pin2000 software and 1.6 update image? Looks like there are a couple good tutorials in this thread so I will report back with what I hope is progress. Thanks for the help and info!

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#1060 4 years ago

WOW 0.1 version.

#1061 4 years ago

Its also possible to update with PUB card

#1062 4 years ago
Quoted from jorro:

Its also possible to update with PUB card

Yes, this is super easy. Rob at Lockwhenlit.com rents the PUB cards by mail.

#1063 4 years ago

I've not tried to run the updater on "modern" Windows machines but there really isn't anything special going on; it's just a serial communications app with a glorified front end.

#1064 4 years ago

If there's any interest, I have a NOS playfield available, as well as a spare driver board.

#1065 4 years ago

Is the driver board working and how much?

#1066 4 years ago
Quoted from Gov:

Is the driver board working and how much?

Clean and working. $300+shipping. Can post pics when I get home from work. Tested with both RFM and Star Wars.

#1067 4 years ago
Quoted from blowback1976:

If there's any interest, I have a NOS playfield available, as well as a spare driver board.

How much for the playfield?

#1068 4 years ago
Quoted from sulakd:

How much for the playfield?

$750 + shipping. Will be posting pics later on.

#1069 4 years ago

Hey guys PPS said that a 3D tl might be made. If Rick said that it just might happen. If anyone wants one flood that 3D tl topic with wants, Rick reads it so the more we post the more likely it'll get done. I post already.

#1070 4 years ago

I'm on board for a 3D RFM translite if it gets made (and I've got a friend that would be in for one as well). it would suit the title nicely and given the quality of these, definitely worth the price of admission

#1071 4 years ago
Quoted from blowback1976:

Clean and working. $300+shipping. Can post pics when I get home from work. Tested with both RFM and Star Wars.

Pics can be found in the ad: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-pinball-2000-driver-board

1 week later
#1072 4 years ago

A 3d translite would be awesome! Id be in for one for sure!

#1073 4 years ago
Quoted from DanTheGlassMan:

A 3d translite would be awesome! Id be in for one for sure!

Well post your want on the 3d tl topic. We have to show interest.

#1074 4 years ago

Just as follow up to my previous posts in regards to old code and weird switch issues, wanted to say thanks to everyone that responded as it was a simple matter of upgrading to 1.6 that fixed the original issues I was having. The hardest part was finding a motherboard around my house that actually had a serial port, but the Pin2K software installed and ran fine on Windows 7 32-bit (wouldn't install on 64-bit) for an easy update process.

I also installed these speakers/subwoofer as recommended on a another restore thread as my original ones were cracked and sounding terrible. Decently cheap upgrade and they sound great:

amazon.com link »
amazon.com link »

Couple of other questions as I go through and clean up things:

1. Biggest issue I am seeing is the martian green standup target next to the red center targets was very loose and upon further inspection it looks like a small chuck of wood under the playfield where it screws in is missing (1st pic) and target wasn't sitting flush. It also appears the screws that someone used to try to correct this were too long and have pushed up on the top side of the playfield (2nd pic).

Any ideas here on how to prevent further damage to the top side of the playfield while tightly securing this standup target from underneath? Obviously longer screws seem like a bad idea and was thinking I have to either add some filler/shim or take a bit more wood off to get this target flush again as well as some wood glue if the holes are hollowed out.

2. The playfield has some rough spots around the insert decals with the bottom left of the mothership the worst as it also dips in slightly in addition to the wear (3rd pic). The center arrow right below the skip ramp and some of the missile inserts are also worn as well as appear to have some ghosting (4th, 5th & 6th pics). I imagine the ghosting is a lost cause, but as far the decals anything that can be done here to prevent further damage or even replace them?

Thanks again for any help, really enjoying and working on this game.

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#1075 4 years ago

On the target pull the playfield, invert it (you'll need a way to do that safely without damaging things if you don't have a rotisserie) and fill the immediate area entirely so it's level, then re-drill with a drill stop for the correct length screws. I would not try to make this repair quick-n-fast as you're close enough to the insert there that cracking the wood between the cutout and the insert all the way through is a real possibility and then you've got a big mess. It's already starting to separate there and if it lets go you're in a world of hurt. Do it right, and given what looks like incipient failure of the wood right above that insert I might be tempted to use thickened epoxy for this to add some structural stability to the wood in that area. Beware that stuff is (much) harder than the wood itself, is messy to work with and is extremely unforgiving in terms of getting it OFF things you don't want it on so if you wind up with a mess using it you're in a lot of trouble very quickly.

The ghosting is correctable but not easily; heavily-thinned epoxy injected (with a needle) in the ghosted areas will do it, but it's a tricky technique and without some practice it's not hard to make it look worse than it is now. The indentation around the mothership multiball looks like the insert and clear separated, that could be materially harder to fix in a way that doesn't lead to bigger problems. I'd have to think about that one.

I put 2-ways in both my Pin2k cabs on the top but ended up removing them and putting the stock speakers back as I didn't like the results at all; the callouts became very hard to hear as opposed to nice and crisp with the stock units.

#1076 4 years ago
Quoted from Tickerguy:

On the target pull the playfield, invert it (you'll need a way to do that safely without damaging things if you don't have a rotisserie) and fill the immediate area entirely so it's level, then re-drill with a drill stop for the correct length screws. Do it right, and given what looks like incipient failure of the wood right above that insert I might be tempted to use thickened epoxy for this to add some structural stability to the wood in that area.

First off, I appreciate the detailed reply.

No playfield rotisserie on hand so may have to think of a creative safe way to get the playfield flipped and secured. You are recommending thickened epoxy like this to level off the bottom side correct?

amazon.com link »

Or would JB Weld for wood do the trick?

amazon.com link »

For the top side to get it secured and stop the cracking, should it be injected into the lifted wood and clamped until it hardens? Or do you think correcting it from the bottom will harden that area enough to correct the top?

Quoted from Tickerguy:

The ghosting is correctable but not easily; heavily-thinned epoxy injected (with a needle) in the ghosted areas will do it, but it's a tricky technique and without some practice it's not hard to make it look worse than it is now.

No experience in this area so other than being cosmetically not perfect is there any danger to leaving them as is? I imagine with a ton of plays they will slightly worsen as the clear coat gets worn or pulls up a little more, but since this is a HUO machine now in a climate controlled house in the dry Vegas climate I am hoping any previous deterioration slows significantly.

Quoted from Tickerguy:

The indentation around the mothership multiball looks like the insert and clear separated, that could be materially harder to fix in a way that doesn't lead to bigger problems. I'd have to think about that one.

I guess carefully tapping the insert from the bottom runs the risk of popping it out if that is case? It doesn't really affect game play from what I can tell now so as long as it doesn't get worse I am fine with leaving it.

Quoted from Tickerguy:

I put 2-ways in both my Pin2k cabs on the top but ended up removing them and putting the stock speakers back as I didn't like the results at all; the callouts became very hard to hear as opposed to nice and crisp with the stock units.

Unfortunately my left speaker was toast as the speaker was ripped and very distorted, but from what I can tell so far the callouts still sound good to me. You might have a bit more discerning ear, but it looks like all the RFM speaker replacements I have seen recommended are all two-ways.

#1077 4 years ago

JB Weld is an epoxy. I have West System pump dispensers on cans with both "quick" and "slow" hardeners that I use for various things (I'm a boater) along with their collection of thickeners (various ones from microballoons which produce a reasonably soft surface to what amount to shredded fiberglass which makes something much harder, almost rock-like, when cured.) Epoxy by itself is not particularly structurally sound but when mixed with a thickener, depending on which it is, it certainly can be. In this case you want the mixture completely filling the existing holes and leveled out with the wood, which you have to do before the stuff kicks *and* without getting it where you don't want it. I'd use microballoons for the thickener just so you have some crack at reasonable shaping/leveling once it cures, but you will wind up having to dealing with access to that immediate area. Because it will be harder than the relatively soft wood it will be difficult to work once cured. On the other hand that's the point here, in that you have a structurally-compromised area of the playfield that also takes fairly decent impacts during play due to that target being struck and you certainly don't want it to fracture. You will have to re-drill the screw holes when done using a drill stop so you don't go too far but that's good rather than bad since you can precisely locate them so the target is in the correct place.

Coming up with a way to flip the field and support it is not very difficult; removing the apron should give you plenty of room on the front end. The rear could be a bit trickier and you'll have to pull some of the playfield pieces but supporting it adequately when flipped over isn't that hard to do. The nice thing about Pin2k playfields is that they're designed to be able to be removed very easily and set flat on a floor without damage to anything on the bottom, so doing that while looking at how you're going to flip it over and rest it on something (like a set of sawhorses) isn't difficult.

Make up some of whatever you intend to use for the fill and practice on a scrap piece of plywood that you have laying around if you've not done this before to make sure you like the consistency and hardness of what you intend to use once it cures. IMHO best option is to find someone with the west system two-part components and microballoon thickener. You need very little and buying them at a boat store or on Amazon is going to result in buying an enormous amount (at some cost) for what you need to do. I would not try to use wood filler as that stuff has effectively zero structural strength, and you need some strength here since the target base is screwed to it.

Trying to reseat the big insert is probably going to wind up causing more problems than it fixes on a clear-coated field like this because you will further fracture the bond between the insert and clear. The ghosting will probably get somewhat worse if left alone but I'd be inclined to do exactly that unless you're looking to do a restore -- as opposed to that target that you need to fix.

Occasionally you can find a playfield that's complete and "drop it in" with zero work since SW:E1 and RFM were kissing cousins and they were made for conversion purposes. If you really like the game and one comes around at a rational price in good condition you might contemplate doing that; it also would give you a nice bin of spare bespoke parts for the game going forward......

1 week later
#1078 4 years ago

I'm leaving the club! If anyone is interested or knows someone I have a perfect rfm. Cleared pf. Perfect cab. Lcd monitor upgrade. Paid $3700. First $3200 takes it.

1 week later
#1079 4 years ago

I finally got around to putting on the rgb T molding. It was a pain because the barbed side of the molding that holds the molding in the channel is wider then regular molding. I used a slotted screwdriver to stick in the channel and pulled down and scraped the channel wider so the molding would push in. That took a number of "fittings" till I got it right for both full channels. These pictures were taken at full brightness of each color, they look perfect in person not all blown out like in the pictures. My camera is crap, I need a new one.

IMGA0673[1]_(resized).JPG

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#1080 4 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

I finally got around to putting on the rgb T molding. It was a pain because the barbed side of the molding that holds the molding in the channel is wider then regular molding. I used a slotted screwdriver to stick in the channel and pulled down and scraped the channel wider so the molding would push in. That took a number of "fittings" till I got it right for both full channels. These pictures were taken at full brightness of each color, they look perfect in person not all blown out like in the pictures. My camera is crap, I need a new one.

Holy shit. Where did you get that RGB T molding? That looks awesome.

QSS

#1081 4 years ago

It's DIY. The molding came from Tmolding.com, the 2, 3 meter rgb strips, 20ft of T molding, a 2 output controller, remote, 18inch interconnect rgb cable (to connect both sides of the bb to the controller), cable interconnect pins and 3 amp power supply all came from ebay. Total cost about $100. I did my GB Pro before I did this game so I knew how to do it and it also cost less cuz the 2 rgb strips were only 2 meters in length and only needed 13ft of T molding. You do not want to pound the T molding in with the rgb strip inside of it, you'll short out sections if the strip. Even just pressing it in I still shorted a 3 led red segment but luckly it's on the back of the bb so you can't see it.

1 week later
#1082 4 years ago

Hi folks, just want to know what is the best replacement tube/neon for the backbox/translite? I would like to reduce heat and translite glare, also have a better light. There are so many choices so... Thank you

#1083 4 years ago

I used a UV filter on a tube, but somebody else converted to leds... Choices

#1084 4 years ago
Quoted from Shadrac:

Hi folks, just want to know what is the best replacement tube/neon for the backbox/translite? I would like to reduce heat and translite glare, also have a better light. There are so many choices so... Thank you

The subject is covered in previous posts, just scan them and look for the pictures. I have the led replacement in my game and works great.

#1085 4 years ago

RFM PINBLADES have now been added to our online store if anyones interested.

http://www.pingraffix.com/#!product-page/c1xid/7382ed19-9328-0201-e7db-60365869734d

Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 11.31.55 PM (resized).png

#1086 4 years ago

Very cool, do you by chance have any pictures of the blades actually installed in a game?

#1087 4 years ago
Quoted from Shadrac:

Hi folks, just want to know what is the best replacement tube/neon for the backbox/translite? I would like to reduce heat and translite glare, also have a better light. There are so many choices so... Thank you

I did the cheapo amazon led's on a roll thing. Warm white with a dimmer to get the level where i wanted it. Used a piece of foam board to mount them and ran a strip every few inches. The board is held in place with velcro and detaches completely very easily.

#1088 4 years ago

I'm surprised no one has done a back box led lighting mod for Pin2k games. Mmmm...

#1089 4 years ago

No "mod" is needed, honestly. Just get an LED replacement tube.

#1090 4 years ago
Quoted from hAbO:

I'm surprised no one has done a back box led lighting mod for Pin2k games. Mmmm...

The colors would really pop with a custom one done........for when out 3d tl comes. You should see my buddies MM with the 3d tl with colored leds behind it. WOW!!! You can't take your eyes off of it.

#1091 4 years ago

Since i run my back light strips at a pretty low level I thought about building a little dual dimmer circuit with a high/regular brightness and wire a trigger into a strobe.

#1092 4 years ago
Quoted from Shadrac:

Hi folks, just want to know what is the best replacement tube/neon for the backbox/translite? I would like to reduce heat and translite glare, also have a better light. There are so many choices so... Thank you

I posted pics and info from my experience back on page 18 of this thread. No dimmer, nothing fancy but reversible w/no flickering or toasty translite.

#1093 4 years ago
Quoted from hAbO:

I'm surprised no one has done a back box led lighting mod for Pin2k games. Mmmm...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinball-2000-2k-led-backglass-lighting-conversion

#1094 4 years ago

Love cheap repairs. Fluorescent tube went out. Replaced with new 99 center starter from Marco (was placing an order anyway). 2 minute fix including opening the back box and looking for the old starter.

#1095 4 years ago
Quoted from altan:

Love cheap repairs. Fluorescent tube went out. Replaced with new 99 center starter from Marco (was placing an order anyway). 2 minute fix including opening the back box and looking for the old starter.

I had to repair mine as well. I thought it was the starter. But our was the ballast that failed

#1096 4 years ago

Anyone here install the bill ung saucer mod on their game that can breakdown the jumper settings?

After about a year of sitting on the shelf, I finally got around to installing this mod on my game. Looks great, but I'm not a fan of the out of the box settings it has running-right now the saucers are on all the time in a spinning pattern and I'd like for them to sync to the saucer on the play field.

#1097 4 years ago

I did a similar mod to the Levi mod. It was quite a bit of work, but the saucers mirror the center ship progress lamps nicely

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pinball_2000_Repair#Adding_Saucer_Lights_to_RFM

#1098 4 years ago

I just picked up side mirrors for my Pin2K machine from https://pinballsidemirrors.com/ and I must say that the quality is really nice. Very sturdy thickness and fit perfectly. Actually, they kind of just sit in place although I added screws to keep them there while putting the playfield back. Thanks to who ever recommended them as I'm really happy with how they look.

#1099 4 years ago

Happy to hear you like them, I was the one that asked them to make them and I got the first pair and I just love them. They are BIG mothers aren't they.

#1100 4 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

Happy to hear you like them, I was the one that asked them to make them and I got the first pair and I just love them. They are BIG mothers aren't they.

Big Mothers is an understatement! I was expecting something flimsy and cheap but on the contrary. Very well made and worth the little extra. Thanks for the recommendation Paul.

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