(Topic ID: 290562)

RFM Barn Find, had plywood delaminating, how do I proceed?

By DCrosby

3 years ago


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#1 3 years ago

I've taken all the hardware off the front, and removed the monitor to be able to see what I'm dealing with, it looks like the left side has a bit of de-lamination at the very surface in the front and back, and if I remove the decal I think I can remove it and fill it back up, level it with wood putty, and or bondo, and get that sorted. The roof/top is also not a big deal as it's square, and I can find another piece of plywood to cut and put in there, I have to do it for the back door anyhow as that's missing as well.
The real concern is the Right side, it's complicated with the way the curves of the cab go around, and it's just falling apart.
Does anybody have any plans for this so I can send them to a CNC or an old head/backbox from another P2K that I can buy, or any idea how to re-laminate this thing? I'm open to any an all suggestions even the funny ones, but don't expect me to act on those.

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#2 3 years ago

Sell me the playfield and I can put it in my SWEP1!!

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from DCrosby:

I've taken all the hardware off the front, and removed the monitor to be able to see what I'm dealing with, it looks like the left side has a bit of de-lamination at the very surface in the front and back, and if I remove the decal I think I can remove it and fill it back up, level it with wood putty, and or bondo, and get that sorted. The roof/top is also not a big deal as it's square, and I can find another piece of plywood to cut and put in there, I have to do it for the back door anyhow as that's missing as well.
The real concern is the Right side, it's complicated with the way the curves of the cab go around, and it's just falling apart.
Does anybody have any plans for this so I can send them to a CNC or an old head/backbox from another P2K that I can buy, or any idea how to re-laminate this thing? I'm open to any an all suggestions even the funny ones, but don't expect me to act on those.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I see cabinets come up often near you. I think cosmokramer could help with cabs too. There’s lots of guys in CA who fab work.

I’m amazed you actually got a barnfind AFM. Hard to believe they’re still out there.

I’d personally rebuild that cabinet or replace it. New decals can still be bought online. Congrats on a lucky score! I see you’re new too, welcome

#4 3 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

I see cabinets come up often near you. I think cosmokramer could help with cabs too. There’s lots of guys in CA who fab work.
I’m amazed you actually got a barnfind AFM. Hard to believe they’re still out there.
I’d personally rebuild that cabinet or replace it. New decals can still be bought online. Congrats on a lucky score! I see you’re new too, welcome

Fairly new, I've owned a VPin for about 2 Years now, so I've graduated over to real, shopped a MSF, and kind of found my passion in more fixing up than playing pinball, so when my wife encouraged me to find a "Project" I did, and found this one. from the look of it on the listing it looked like the decals were peeling but like you said those can still be bought. I had no idea how much damage the wood had taken, and when it actually fired up and played I was amazed the electronics hadn't taken a bigger hit... Now I don't want to give up, it'll be my spring -> whenever it's done project....

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from cabuford:

Sell me the playfield and I can put it in my SWEP1!!

This is the Playfield before I stripped everything off...

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#6 3 years ago

Not sure anyone pre-fabs any Pin2k cabs.
I think you are going to have to build one from scratch as that ply looks shot.
I'm not sure I'd try to repair the ply as it looks to have absorbed quiet a bit of water.

Maybe just the head sides need to be built?

#7 3 years ago

Pretty sure virtuapin or some other cabinet maker was making replacement cabs in the past. That style of cab was kind of popular with the virtual pinball scene. Check the forums.

Old thread but mameman might be able to help as well. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gauging-interest-in-replacement-pinball-2000-cabinets

#8 3 years ago

I would simply use the other side as a pattern and make a replacement.

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I would simply use the other side as a pattern and make a replacement.

Yeah that's my fallback position, as I don't know if my woodworking skills measure up, but then again, measure up to what, I'm my own worst critic, but I doubt anybody playing it would care.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from grbgemen:

Pretty sure virtuapin or some other cabinet maker was making replacement cabs in the past. That style of cab was kind of popular with the virtual pinball scene. Check the forums.
Old thread but mameman might be able to help as well. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gauging-interest-in-replacement-pinball-2000-cabinets

I have a Virtua Pin, and I contacted Paul, and asked him already, and he said P2K's are a bit of an anomaly, and I was the first in 10+ years to come ask for one.

#11 3 years ago

sell the playfield and parts and move on. you will have way more time and money in that thing than it is worth.

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

sell the playfield and parts and move on. you will have way more time and money in that thing than it is worth.

Pretty much this. Unless you want a major headache of a project with little financial upside.

11
#13 3 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

sell the playfield and parts and move on. you will have way more time and money in that thing than it is worth.

Quoted from dung:

Pretty much this. Unless you want a major headache of a project with little financial upside.

Its not always about money, there is a certain satisfaction in pulling a game back from the brink...
As stated above, use the old cab as a template, get a sheet of 3/4 cabinet grade plywood and put one together. In a HUO environment you dont need to worry about miter lock corners or anything fancy, just glue, add corner brace, then heavy duty B/W leg plates...just build a box the same size, test fit your components before you sand, paint and decal it.
$75 for plywood
$250 ish for decals
$75 primer, paint supplies
Done and you feel great!

#14 3 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Its not always about money, there is a certain satisfaction in pulling a game back from the brink...
As stated above, use the old cab as a template, get a sheet of 3/4 cabinet grade plywood and put one together. In a HUO environment you dont need to worry about miter lock corners or anything fancy, just glue, add corner brace, then heavy duty B/W leg plates...just build a box the same size, test fit your components before you sand, paint and decal it.
$75 for plywood
$250 ish for decals
$75 primer, paint supplies
Done and you feel great!

I agree totally especially if it was a better more desired game. The cabinet is just one facet of what he is about to get into with this mess.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

I agree totally especially if it was a better more desired game. The cabinet is just one facet of what he is about to get into with this mess.

The rest of the "Facets" have been ironed out, except the monitor, which I don't know the state of, but is a WG and has zero burn in. The Driver board works, and there's some rust and mildew on the bottom but nothing bad, some evaporrust, and some bleach + water won't solve. The whole machine works it's just not on stable footing where I'd feel comfortable to hoist the backbox onto it, to test the monitor.

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#16 3 years ago
Quoted from woody76:

if it was a better more desired game.

I agree, and this it what would keep ME from doing this, others seem to really like this game.

#17 3 years ago

cosmokramer when you start taking it apart there are those small blocks of wood, I believe they're nailed in there, do you just pry them lose with a crowbar (I have a small one) and then re-place / re-nail it when done? I can't find any screw holes on how they're held in there...

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from DCrosby:

cosmokramer when you start taking it apart there are those small blocks of wood, I believe they're nailed in there, do you just pry them lose with a crowbar (I have a small one) and then re-place / re-nail it when done? I can't find any screw holes on how they're held in there...

They are nailed and glued...if you cant pop them off, you will have enough scrap from the sheet of ply to cut new ones.

Note: i have no experience with pin2k cabs, the plywood blocks may be a different thickness than the main cab.
WPC cabs and blocking are all 3/4"

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

They are nailed and glued...if you cant pop them off, you will have enough scrap from the sheet of ply to cut new ones

Thanks!
I'm more worried about messing up the pieces they're attached to that I'd want to keep.

#20 3 years ago

I would try and find a Star Wars Episode 1 complete game. They are relatively inexpensive and you can play both games. By easily swapping the playfields and ROMS.

#21 3 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Its not always about money, there is a certain satisfaction in pulling a game back from the brink...
As stated above, use the old cab as a template, get a sheet of 3/4 cabinet grade plywood and put one together. In a HUO environment you dont need to worry about miter lock corners or anything fancy, just glue, add corner brace, then heavy duty B/W leg plates...just build a box the same size, test fit your components before you sand, paint and decal it.
$75 for plywood
$250 ish for decals
$75 primer, paint supplies
Done and you feel great!

I'd fix it but then again I'm crazy.

#22 3 years ago

I suspect you are going to deal with a crazy amount of corrosion on the internals. With that much delamination in the cabinet, I can't even imagine the other problems you will find. Is the playfield planking? Any idea if the game will fire up?

If you are excited about learning how to completely restore a game then you probably have a nice project to learn on. If you are just looking for a game to play you would probably be better off buying an used RFM and using this one for parts.

#23 3 years ago
Quoted from NC_Pin:

I suspect you are going to deal with a crazy amount of corrosion on the internals. With that much delamination in the cabinet, I can't even imagine the other problems you will find. Is the playfield planking? Any idea if the game will fire up?
If you are excited about learning how to completely restore a game then you probably have a nice project to learn on. If you are just looking for a game to play you would probably be better off buying an used RFM and using this one for parts.

I am excited, to expand my skills, I was hoping to expand my electronics knowledge, instead it's expanding my wood working skills.
A couple of posts up you can see it is working, I was able to play a couple of games, and there seems to be no separation of the wood on the playfield.
This is before the Evaporrust, and Bleach, Before and After, but it's isolated to that side. :

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#24 3 years ago

RFM is a heavy cab, the head particularly because it contains a 19" CRT.

The plywood is not salvageable. Don't even try it. It's structurally unsound. This is the opinion of 20 years of construction and woodworking experience. Beware fo the moisture on the bottom of the playfield. Plywood is notorious for warping when it gets wet, particularly if there is uneven tension (paint, assemblies, etc.) on one face.

I would strip the pf completely and validate that it is completely level. It's going to need to be stripped anyway due to the amount of rust and corosion on the game. DO NOT take the easy route and just throw bleach at it. Strip it and fix it right.

Frankly, that is an enormous project you are undertaking. If you are doing it because you just want to expand you skills and don't care how much money you sink in the game, then huge kudos to you. On the other hand, it's not a particularly unique game and it's death to the Great Part Out in the Sky isn't an affront to the collecting community.

But, again, judging by the pics, the game needs a new cab, a complete teardown, replacing alot of rusted and corroded parts, and likely 100+ hours of your time to restore it completely.

Either way, good luck!

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Its not always about money, there is a certain satisfaction in pulling a game back from the brink...
As stated above, use the old cab as a template, get a sheet of 3/4 cabinet grade plywood and put one together. In a HUO environment you dont need to worry about miter lock corners or anything fancy, just glue, add corner brace, then heavy duty B/W leg plates...just build a box the same size, test fit your components before you sand, paint and decal it.
$75 for plywood
$250 ish for decals
$75 primer, paint supplies
Done and you feel great!

I think it may have been awhile since you've bought plywood. Good, furniture "A" grade plywood is usually at least $100 per sheet and I doubt you would be able to build the cab with less than 2 sheets. Lower quality plywood has voids and knots, etc. All of which takes a ton of time (sanding, fiberglass, bondo, etc.) obtain a smooth painted surface. You can shortcut a cab that will be decalled with laminate-backed plywood, but it chips easily when cut and doesn't always provide a perfectly smooth finish (I learned that the hard way and don't use this shortcut any longer).

I have built my own cabs. Done properly (no cheap Home Depot plywood, automotive grade HVLP paint job), I haven't been able to do one for under $400. And that is before another $250-500 for decals or stencils and paint. A really quality stencil and paint job is higher than $500.

Now add in legs, plates, rails, etc. and it really starts to add up.

#26 3 years ago
Quoted from robotron911:

I think it may have been awhile since you've bought plywood. Good, furniture "A" grade plywood is usually at least $100 per sheet and I doubt you would be able to build the cab with less than 2 sheets. Lower quality plywood has voids and knots, etc. All of which takes a ton of time (sanding, fiberglass, bondo, etc.) obtain a smooth painted surface. You can shortcut a cab that will be decalled with laminate-backed plywood, but it chips easily when cut and doesn't always provide a perfectly smooth finish (I learned that the hard way and don't use this shortcut any longer).
I have built my own cabs. Done properly (no cheap Home Depot plywood, automotive grade HVLP paint job), I haven't been able to do one for under $400. And that is before another $250-500 for decals or stencils and paint. A really quality stencil and paint job is higher than $500.
Now add in legs, plates, rails, etc. and it really starts to add up.

You are correct, I just called my local lumber company and a sheet of A-1 domestic birch is $99.67 per sheet...
OP, please add $25 to my lumber estimate

#27 3 years ago

I would agree with Shredso - find an EP1 and then just switch the games whenever you want. If you pull the daughterboard from the RFM, you can simply swap that with the EP1 daughterboard, update the software via a laptop/cable and swap the playfields.

I had this same setup back when I owned RFM/EP1 and it was fun to have both games. I have a friend that just bought a EP1 in a package deal this week, maybe he would give you a deal on it.

#28 3 years ago

Update: I'm stripping off the decals, they came off pretty well in large strips, this is the underlying damage :

Most of the support pieces came off pretty well, I took pictures and numbered them so once I get the new piece on there I'll know where they go...

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6 months later
#29 2 years ago

Moving forward slowly.
sanding and filling the main cab.

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#30 2 years ago

Then painting the corners

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#31 2 years ago

Then I'm starting to apply the decals
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For reference there's the before, I never got a front on shot, as I thought it looked horrible why take a picture:
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Another angle from the auction
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#32 2 years ago

2/3 Done

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#34 2 years ago

Glad to see it getting restored

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Glad to see it getting restored

Yeah the backbox had to be re-built from scratch, the original WG Monitor didn't survive its time in the garage without protection to the neck board, sadly it suffered a catastrophic failure. But on the plus side, I got a Used 21" LCD which I cut an opening for, and seems to fit the 19" 4:3 perspective pretty well. And it's a lot lighter, so A: I don't have to make the backbox as beefy, as in supports for the monitor to sit at an angle. B: It's a lot lighter so the whole thing won't be as heavy. And Since I'm using pinbox, because the original PC got removed before I got to the machine, I now don't need a VGA -> CGA converter. So I'm trying to see things on the bright side, but I did love that WG, it was perfect no burn... bright... sniff.... RIP :/

2 weeks later
#36 2 years ago

So I'm getting to the grand finale here, RFM_BackboxRestore (resized).pngRFM_BackboxRestore (resized).png I got the backbox re-built. added some shelves, for the new PC, as well as hung the PC Monitor. CheckingMonitor Position (resized).pngCheckingMonitor Position (resized).png And it's all coming together, DecalsAndTMolding_RFM (resized).pngDecalsAndTMolding_RFM (resized).pngI need to add the Back Door to the Backbox, which I didn't have with the sale of the old machine. So I'm cutting a piece of wood the size of the opening, then hoping it'll fit, and then I'm breaking out the Router for the holes on the back. Any Suggestions on the router? It does have a plunge mount and I plan on attaching a straight edge to the wood with clamps to get the edges straight, and then plunge and cut out the holes...
Oh and I was wondering for the latch area of the backbox door, is that like a french cleat, or something that the lock "bites" into as I'm a little confused... I got a picture of what it looks like, but I'm not 100% of what I need to buy.... BackDoor_RFM (resized).pngBackDoor_RFM (resized).png

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from DCrosby:

Yeah the backbox had to be re-built from scratch, the original WG Monitor didn't survive its time in the garage without protection to the neck board, sadly it suffered a catastrophic failure. But on the plus side, I got a Used 21" LCD which I cut an opening for, and seems to fit the 19" 4:3 perspective pretty well. And it's a lot lighter, so A: I don't have to make the backbox as beefy, as in supports for the monitor to sit at an angle. B: It's a lot lighter so the whole thing won't be as heavy. And Since I'm using pinbox, because the original PC got removed before I got to the machine, I now don't need a VGA -> CGA converter. So I'm trying to see things on the bright side, but I did love that WG, it was perfect no burn... bright... sniff.... RIP :/

Did you accidentally bust the tube itself, or just break the neck board? If the former, definitely repairable. If the latter, poor a cold one out...

#38 2 years ago

The neck board got caught on a lawn chair that my child decided he wanted to put behind the monitor, and the neck board snapped the tube, and you could see it in the front it damaged the phosphorous coating.

16
#39 2 years ago

So other than the Back Box Door, it's finished* and running better than new, thanks to the pinbox software, and mypinballs.com with the newest rom, 6 Ball Trough, Shaker, and Real Knocker.

*(Working again as intended)

RFM_BackInAction (resized).pngRFM_BackInAction (resized).png

#40 2 years ago

BTW if anybody is selling / wants to sell their 3D (Lenticular) Back Glass Art, I'd be willing to purchase one.

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from DCrosby:

and the neck board snapped the tube, and you could see it in the front it damaged the phosphorous coating.

Been there done that. I was there when I heard the hiss of death.
I did a tube swap with another monitor to bring my back to life.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from DCrosby:

The neck board got caught on a lawn chair that my child decided he wanted to put behind the monitor, and the neck board snapped the tube, and you could see it in the front it damaged the phosphorous coating.

Well shit, that sucks man. Don't toss the chassis though like Zitt suggests!

#43 2 years ago

That turned out awesome. Great job man. Going to post any game play footage?

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from joetechbob:

Well shit, that sucks man. Don't toss the chassis though like Zitt suggests!

I removed the tube and donated the chassis to a place that's done a bunch of monitor repair stuff for me, figuring a "known good" WG chassis would be useful. And they offered to do some repair in exchange.

As to some game-play, sure I'll try and put together a video in the next couple of days.

#45 2 years ago

Also Anybody who has a lead on Pinball 2000 Playfield Glass would be appreciated, I know Planetary used to sell them, I asked 7mo. ago and they kept saying next month, so I kept asking, to show there's demand, and now they won't answer the support ticket anymore... Maybe if there are more people who need it, they'd do a run, I'd buy 2 sheets just in case.

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from DCrosby:

lead on Pinball 2000 Playfield Glass

might be time to "DIY" a solution.
IE get Pin2k sized glass (source local tempered glass from a local shop) and then put dark ?30%? window tint on the upper 3rd of it.

Seems like it'd be a great Blog post... so that other can "duplicate" the work in the future if Mr Personality never get's around to a solution.

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

might be time to "DIY" a solution.
IE get Pin2k sized glass (source local tempered glass from a local shop) and then put dark ?30%? window tint on the upper 3rd of it.
Seems like it'd be a great Blog post... so that other can "duplicate" the work in the future if Mr Personality never get's around to a solution.

I believe you can also get mirrored tint. I had the same thought when the OP mentioned needing a sheet.

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from DCrosby:

So other than the Back Box Door, it's finished* and running better than new, thanks to the pinbox software, and mypinballs.com with the newest rom, 6 Ball Trough, Shaker, and Real Knocker.
*(Working again as intended)
[quoted image]

Wow, great job. You should be proud.

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