(Topic ID: 125955)

Ideas that would change pinball


By flashinstinct

4 years ago



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  • 155 posts
  • 70 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by thedefog
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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    There are 155 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
    #101 4 years ago

    OK, then I want a laser hologram projector that comes out of the cab where the back box would be. Have it project on to the wall behind it or a pull out screen that attracts players.

    The backbox is largely useless

    #102 4 years ago

    for location, I can assure you that most operators woudl gladly take a $300 reduction in price if it meant no backbox. I would do it just for the ease of moving games around. I also have lots of art and no wall space.

    #103 4 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    P3 was working on that and ran into fierce opposition

    Quoted from thedefog:

    I'm extremely surprised nobody has eliminated the backbox yet

    I say don't eliminate the "backbox", but perhaps the back just becomes an LCD screen that quickly and easily detaches (think modern golden tee golf machine), or maybe keep the backbox but make it extremely easy to detach (one connector, attaches by a couple retractable pins).

    Quoted from Law:

    Pinball has the inherent downside of being horizontal-ish. Go to a modern arcade and see how many of their games are horizontal with no kind of marquee. If anything they're ridiculously oversized and waaaaay taller than they need to be just to grab your attention.

    Except pinball sales are now 75% home market in the US (95% in italy, and various other stats all over europe), so when you average it out it ends up being 50/50. So in america, there's little need to "attract" because the market is the home, not the arcade.

    #104 4 years ago

    Would like to see the game-start front ends written to use the DMD/LCD and flipper buttons to select # of players, vs. the noob-bewildering method of slapping the Start button repeatedly.

    Hit the Start button to 'start' the game, then on-screen asks you to hit L/R flippers to select the # of players (with an 'add more monies' on-screen beg if insufficient credits) then either hit Start again or have an on-screen timer run out to confirm.

    I'd imagine any locations with machines on free play would love it, vs. having to make the rounds every five minutes and power cycle machines sitting on empty four-player games. (I'm looking at you, Modern Pinball NYC.)

    Maybe the new platforms already do this? If not, have it at.

    #105 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    I get the aesthetic reasoning behind it, but it would only appear weird because we are used to seeing pins with them. If something were designed to be, say, maybe 1/4 the size that was easily removable, maybe that would be a compromise. Besides, I have lots of art to hang and not enough wallspace, it would be find for me to be able to put up some art or something behind the pin. It would be more of an issue on location obviously next to other pins.

    I could imagine something like a small speaker box at the bottom that's thicker, then a tall, thin display that only need have a display, and some sort of flat LED lighting panel behind the a translight. Something not much thicker than a laptop screen. A couple connectors at the bottom, and it becomes simple to disconnect/reconnect for transport.

    It's way too bulky as it is now, considering how little actually goes in it.

    #106 4 years ago

    i like what P-3 is doing , but there are some amazing products out there that they could take the platform to the next level

    #107 4 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    I say don't eliminate the "backbox", but perhaps the back just becomes an LCD screen that quickly and easily detaches (think modern golden tee golf machine), or maybe keep the backbox but make it extremely easy to detach (one connector, attaches by a couple retractable pins).

    That would be great for home, but a nightmare on location with damage unless it was inside of something, thus necessitating a back box again.

    #108 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    for location, I can assure you that most operators woudl gladly take a $300 reduction in price if it meant no backbox.

    I think you're wrong about that. The backbox acts as advertising for the game. Removing it on location would reduce the profits.

    #109 4 years ago

    The speaker bar would still be necessary, so it wouldn't look totally weird without a BB. You could do a lot of cool stuff with the design there. Ghetto blaster speaker bar would be funny as hell for an 80's themed pin.
    ghetto-blaster.jpg

    #110 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I think you're wrong about that. The backbox acts as advertising for the game. Removing it on location would reduce the profits.

    That is a valid point. Perhaps some sort of pull out vinyl poster on a retractable rolling pin that holds up via a support like a projector screen would work, lit from the bottom on a material that would illuminate fully. Fiber optics?

    #111 4 years ago
    Quoted from toyotaboy:

    Except pinball sales are now 75% home market in the US (95% in italy, and various other stats all over europe), so when you average it out it ends up being 50/50. So in america, there's little need to "attract" because the market is the home, not the arcade.

    How much of that home market is due to nostalgia? How many people expect a pinball machine to look a certain way? Is that proportion of the market due to the home market getting that much larger or the arcade market getting that much smaller? How much room is there left in the home market? Arcades and other businesses?

    #112 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I think you're wrong about that. The backbox acts as advertising for the game. Removing it on location would reduce the profits.

    Well, with 13 games now out on location I have a decent POV on this.

    The backbox is archaic and does LITTLE to advertise. I will say from all accounts that WOZ with the full color screen and real images and animations supposedly helps.

    By and large, pinball is played by pinball players that care more about what is under the glass, fun of gameplay, and depth of code. Aside form that is the casual player that is dropping in a few coins for something to do. They may select a game based on the backbox art, but what brings them to the decision to play is the activitiy itself.

    This is 2015 and pinball is not often an arcade environment where it is trying to draw people in to play taht particular game. Hell, we had a WWE and the backbox lights went out the first week. NOBODY even noticed till after we replaced the board/lights and then they made comments that there was now artwork to be seen.

    For what pins make, I would much prefer a $300 cheaper game and NO backbox for putting them on route.

    #113 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I can understand why people wouldn't want to completely eliminate the backbox. It would make the new pins look weird in a typical lineup. It wouldn't be difficult, however, to design a backbox that's super easy to take take off and put back on.

    I don't think it is really a question about aesthetics as compared to line up, although back box is associated with tradition as an advertising marquee...
    It says "this is the story" or this is the fantasy we are presenting. Much like a novel has a cover, a movie has a poster or a CD has a case. Any of those could simply have some boring text to label what it contains, but pictures or art catch the eye and imagination.

    #114 4 years ago

    I beg to differ on the backbox being needed. Wife says to me. "the next game to go needs to be RFM it just doesn't fit in like the rest of them". 13 machines lined up and RFM goes because it doesn't look like the rest of them....know WOZ with the full color screen...WAY COOL.

    #115 4 years ago
    Quoted from GibGirl:

    Or another - add WiFi and NFC to machines, and release a free app. You can walk up to any machine, use your app as your first ball sits in the shooter lane, and now the game knows your profile. Your score is uploaded to your phone afterwards, perhaps available on a web site, and initials are auto-entered. Now you can track your scores over time on a specific machine and compare to friends. Operators can keep track remotely of machine use and earnings, and get instant alerts if there's a problem.

    And then operators will compare damage to their machines with the player who last played it, and your profile will be banned from their machines, and somehow the attempt will be made to hold you liable for something, in the manner that a car rental agency might blame you for damage to the rental car unless you report existing damage before you drive it off the lot.

    Or, crime scene detectives will know they have more than closed-circuit cameras at their disposal. They can know that the nearby pinball machines will carry data on who was there at the time of the crime or just before.

    Wild ideas, perhaps.

    #116 4 years ago

    The P3 originally had no backbox, then they went to optional backbox. I think they may have dropped the optional backbox because there was no demand.

    11.jpg

    #117 4 years ago
    Quoted from Det_Deckard:

    Reduce the cost to make a pinball machine to something that makes it economical to be on location

    This is a common thought on Pinside but it's actually a cop-out. Lets say a NIB pinball machine costs $1000 and earns $1/day, and Flappy Bird costs $8000 but makes $80/day. If you were an operator which would you buy?

    The point is, pinball needs something to draw people in, but it's been a stagnant platform for 20 years... so this is a good thread to discuss what can change on-location earnings, not how to make the same stagnant platform cheaper.

    #118 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Well, with 13 games now out on location I have a decent POV on this.
    The backbox is archaic and does LITTLE to advertise. I will say from all accounts that WOZ with the full color screen and real images and animations supposedly helps.

    I don't agree with this. Step into a modern arcade or gambling hall and tell me which games don't have large and prominent advertising signs/backboxes? Arcade games, redemptions, slot machines, and video poker already upright screens for attract-mode advertising but they tend to add big advertising signs on top of that. Imagine walking into such an arcade, visually scan the area, and try to find the pinball machine without a backbox. Not visible=no earnings.

    #119 4 years ago
    Quoted from vanilla:

    And then operators will compare damage to their machines with the player who last played it, and your profile will be banned from their machines, and somehow the attempt will be made to hold you liable for something, in the manner that a car rental agency might blame you for damage to the rental car unless you report existing damage before you drive it off the lot.
    Or, crime scene detectives will know they have more than closed-circuit cameras at their disposal. They can know that the nearby pinball machines will carry data on who was there at the time of the crime or just before.
    Wild ideas, perhaps.

    Well, there's a big difference between the option to use an app when you play, and forcing use. The latter would definitely be a poor idea on most locations, as it would prevent most of the play from happening. The random player isn't going to take the time to download an app, register, and configure a profile for a game they just ran across in a movie theater or bowling alley.

    But yes, there might be potential for such data to have additional uses.

    #120 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    I don't agree with this. Step into a modern arcade or gambling hall and tell me which games don't have large and prominent advertising signs/backboxes? Arcade games, redemptions, slot machines, and video poker already upright screens for attract-mode advertising but they tend to add big advertising signs on top of that. Imagine walking into such an arcade, visually scan the area, and try to find the pinball machine without a backbox. Not visible=no earnings.

    I am not sure where these arcades exist? To be honest I have not played pinball in a real arcade in 20 years. There are places to play on location, there are shows, there are barcades, but it has been 20 years since I have seen an actual arcade where pinball is competing with modern arcades.

    Look around and the vast majority of places to play pinball are where you go to play pinball. I play pinball out on location on a regular basis and IME if you go to an arcade, the pinball is an after thought or more commonly not there at all. Backboxes serve little purpose for pinball aside from our image of what pinball "should' look like.

    #121 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I am not sure where these arcades exist? To be honest I have not played pinball in a real arcade in 20 years. There are places to play on location, there are shows, there are barcades, but it has been 20 years since I have seen an actual arcade where pinball is competing with modern arcades.

    few and far between, depends on what you consider an arcade? If we're talking only new stuff competing against each other, there really isn't any new arcade stuff other than redemption and the occasional title that raw thills releases every 18 months.

    Gameworks in schaumburg has 4, level 257 next door has 5.
    Underground retrocade in dundee has 11
    Galloping ghost in brookfield, IL has 11

    If you ever get to tennessee, game galaxy is what I would consider a typical arcade with 40 pins and nearly as many vids

    #122 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    OK, then I want a laser hologram projector that comes out of the cab where the back box would be. Have it project on to the wall behind it or a pull out screen that attracts players.
    The backbox is largely useless

    I would tend to agree with you on the newer games. If they are all just going to be based on franchise images with cut and paste graphics then the backbox is not necessary. I do like art on backglasses like Wh20, CV, Metallica, AC/DC Luci and others that are artistic. With the new Spike system being tiny it could easily be inside the cabinet. You could also fit the DMD inside the cabinet like CV. If it got the cost down towards $3000 it would make it more affordable for a lot of people. Mabye Stern should try this instead of "The Pin" to get into more households. Also like your idea on the hologram.

    #123 4 years ago

    I know Gerry chimed in a little (he probably doesn't want to overtake the thread), but all I could think of while reading these replies is how much of this stuff the P3 either already does, or could do. Particularly the stuff that's just based in software. Based on what I've read/seen, it already has user profiles, selectable difficulty levels, customizable team games (e.g. 2v2 or 1v3), and a modular design that makes for very easy cleaning and maintenance. Some stuff like network features and head-to-head play is planned.

    The ideas for the little LCDs are nice if you had a mostly traditional playfield, but the large LCD on the P3 playfield covers that same concept. "Inserts" are no longer static but can change depending on the mode, situation, and even the difficulty settings. It not only looks cleaner but makes it easier to understand the rules.

    It can't identify individual balls, but it can track ball location accurately over the playfield LCD. Between that and the scoops that can pop up, there are a lot of potential applications for unique gameplay.

    Plus with the fact that it seems quite geared towards home users, gameplay design is wide-open. They already support mini games, and the ability to save and restore a game state to essentially continue a game indefinitely to see modes you wouldn't otherwise get to (disabling high-scores).

    But since not every game made for the P3 platform has to be feasible for location play (unlike most manufacturers), you could go away from the traditional 3-ball gameplay model completely if you wanted to. The RPG example is one I've used myself. Imagine a campaign-based game in the vein of Final Fantasy or something where you explore the world, go to towns, buy items, battle monsters, level up, etc. It could play out over many hours continuously. Maybe draining doesn't matter in the overworld, but it costs you health during a battle, etc. 2nd and 3rd flipper buttons could be used for advanced functions like spells and potions (which would be pretty hard to convey/learn in an arcade setting).

    And it's all going to be open source so anyone can make a game (either just with software or software plus upper playfield module).

    #124 4 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    I know this is a daydream

    Surfers also thought this was a daydream until...

    #125 4 years ago

    Check out these videos. Go to YouTube under "perpetual useless" to see more examples of these strange but interesting sculptures. It's simply hypnotic to watch. I'd like to see a similar toys like this in a pinball machine, but make them interactive, low-maintenance and awesome enough to attract spectators to want to play.

    #126 4 years ago

    I still disagree with anyone thinking that removing the backbox is the way to go. Take cues from the casino industry, they surely could save some money removing the equivalents of backboxes from slot machines, but instead pump them up to be more elaborate to draw the customer in. Who knows better than a casino about how to draw the customer to buy into a game? I know when I am a casino I have to scan this ocean of advertising in front of me to find titles I would be interested in playing.

    TalkingStickResort-Arizona-Casino.jpg Michael-Jackson-slot-machine-las-vegas.jpg
    #127 4 years ago

    what you neglect to think about is that someone gambling and someone playing pinball are 2 very different things both socially and psychologically. Even the impulse centers of the brain are completely different. Back in the day backboxes were to draw you in, now they are simply to show you the game.

    Now, some home collectors may only be interested in having a backbox because they like the art and tradition, but I will still assert that if someone made GREAT playing and fun game and it was $500 cheaper without the backbox then it would sell. People would get over the 'missing' backbox and likely see some value in the saved space, weight, ease of moving, ability to use wall space behind the pin, etc...

    #128 4 years ago

    If back boxes are "useless" they would have gone years ago. All boards could have been in the cabinet like atari did, with a better cover.

    It wont look like pinball but a glass table with lights...

    I do agree that the back box should be easily removed, replaced.

    #129 4 years ago

    Its not a pinball without a back box, that's the whole attraction, the graphics, the lighting detail, the animation be it digital or mechanical, without a back box you may as well cut the legs in half and sell it a working coffee table. But that's just me.

    #130 4 years ago

    On a recent pinball trip, pinsider Kniessl gave me the idea to do more with the backbox. With just the LCD and no control boards in the one for Spaceballs I had a lot of room left over.

    We came up with two major ideas during the discussion that will make it to the actual game.

    The first is to have a thin exhaust channel on the sides of the backbox aimed at the player that are fed by a squirrel cage fan. They will become active when megamaid switches from suck to blow.

    The second idea was to have the bust of megamaid rise from inside the top of the backbox when her mode starts. It would normally be hidden inside the backbox. This is just a simple belt driven lift or a scissor lift.

    Both of these features will be active during certain attract modes too.

    tl;dr - I think backboxes still have a purpose.

    #131 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    On a recent pinball trip, pinsider Kniessl gave me the idea to do more with the backbox. With just the LCD and no control boards in the one for Spaceballs I had a lot of room left over.
    We came up with two major ideas during the discussion that will make it to the actual game.
    The first is to have a thin exhaust channel on the sides of the backbox aimed at the player that are fed by a squirrel cage fan. They will become active when megamaid switches from suck to blow.
    The second idea was to have the bust of megamaid rise from inside the top of the backbox when her mode starts. It would normally be hidden inside the backbox. This is just a simple belt driven lift or a scissor lift.
    Both of these features will be active during certain attract modes too.
    tl;dr - I think backboxes still have a purpose.

    Here's a simple way to lift Megamaid
    ebay.com link

    #132 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    tl;dr - I think backboxes still have a purpose.

    Hahaha, I did this. I just woke up, normally I would have read it all.

    #133 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    what you neglect to think about is that someone gambling and someone playing pinball are 2 very different things both socially and psychologically. Even the impulse centers of the brain are completely different. Back in the day backboxes were to draw you in, now they are simply to show you the game.
    Now, some home collectors may only be interested in having a backbox because they like the art and tradition, but I will still assert that if someone made GREAT playing and fun game and it was $500 cheaper without the backbox then it would sell. People would get over the 'missing' backbox and likely see some value in the saved space, weight, ease of moving, ability to use wall space behind the pin, etc...

    I agree. The two are different animals now. Back in the 80's & 90's a big flashy backbox was absolutely necessary. In the 2010's, say "pinball" to someone and you'll get this look:
    images.jpg

    No sense in advertising to someone that doesn't even know what the device is. I'm not sure how many people are dropping bills into pins that don't already know what they are. That is a whole can of worms within itself though, we could discuss that for pages here.

    Maybe the cabinet itself could become a light show, since most new games have just been backlit poster, not exactly the most attention grabbing, especially somewhere like a movie theater that is loaded with them. Cabs with ground FX? not kidding, lights beaming out from everywhere.

    #134 4 years ago

    I suppose if we didn't care about backboxes, there would be no market for toppers. Hell, AMH only sold 150 units but joe from laserrific STILL made a topper for it.

    #135 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    I agree. The two are different animals now. Back in the 80's & 90's a big flashy backbox was absolutely necessary. In the 2010's, say "pinball" to someone and you'll get this look:

    No sense in advertising to someone that doesn't even know what the device is. I'm not sure how many people are dropping bills into pins that don't already know what they are.

    The point of the backbox is to make the game identifiable in an arcade. If you think pinball should be 100% in people's basements, or pinball should only be in exclusively-pinball locations, I suppose your point is valid. If not that that, your point is completely ridiculous. Arcade games are tall, have big flashy signs, even toppers... the point is to attract people to come over and play them. Without a backbox a pinball machine is an unidentifiable table from afar.

    arcade1.jpg arcade2.jpg p3.jpg
    #136 4 years ago
    Quoted from flecom:

    you ever owned a machine with eddy sensors? ToM? CV? etc? they are a pain and take up a lot of space under the playfield for the detector board and then the amplifier board

    While I am not an expert (i.e. I could be missing something), I think you can make these switches reliable by processing them digitally.

    On the games you mentioned, they were using an analog solution. They look for a change in reference signal amplitude to detect the presence of a ball. The problem you run into here is that the sense amplifier drifts over time due to various factors (temperature, changes in semiconductor properties, etc) ... that's why you need to tweak that pot on occasion.

    I believe there is a really good product out there for these games that can self adjust so that you don't have to mess with that pot every now and then.

    Doing the sensing digitally can make the circuit a lot more reliable. The tradeoff is that you need more processing horsepower ... especially if you want to sense multiple switches! There's also a change in frequency when a ball is present. It's more difficult to sense this using an analog circuit, but a breeze to sense this digitally if you have more processing power. Since the processor in a modern pin is a lot more powerful, you can do a lot more signal processing to detect frequency changes to the reference signal.

    One final note ... "analog" does NOT NOT NOT imply "bad" ... marketing people hate the word analog since it implies old/unreliable ... bad digital solutions can be a bigger nightmare to maintain . They used an analog solution since the older 6809 probably couldn't do everything that it needed to do to detect frequency shifts while driving the entire game. You need to sample the signals rather frequently to resolve the state of the Eddy sensor. That chews up cycles on the processor.

    #137 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    The point of the backbox is to make the game identifiable in an arcade. If you think pinball should be 100% in people's basements, or pinball should only be in exclusively-pinball locations, I suppose your point is valid. If not that that, your point is completely ridiculous. Arcade games are tall, have big flashy signs, even toppers... the point is to attract people to come over and play them. Without a backbox a pinball machine is an unidentifiable table from afar.

    arcade1.jpg
    arcade2.jpg
    p3.jpg

    I tend to use the 80/20 rule (or in this case more like the 90/10). When 80% of all pinball machines are found in pinball dedicated spaces (barcades and homes) then I don't care much about the last 10%.

    An easy fix would be to have the ability to mount a TV on the wall and run a port out the back of the cab to the TV. Give the buyer and option! This has worked well for many arcade games also. Pretty sure BBH arcade does this with the option for a dedicated head or now a TV of the buyers choosing.

    Backboxes are outdated and serve no utility for 80% of the games out there.

    #138 4 years ago
    Quoted from Roo:

    The ideas for the little LCDs are nice if you had a mostly traditional playfield, but the large LCD on the P3 playfield covers that same concept. "Inserts" are no longer static but can change depending on the mode, situation, and even the difficulty settings. It not only looks cleaner but makes it easier to understand the rules.

    i was actually thinking the smartglass lcd would be awesome to be used as PF glass in conjunction with a PF lcd.

    #139 4 years ago

    To me the biggest benefit would be to eliminate or greatly reduce the need to clean and shop machines. Get rid of solenoids, or at least the dust the current designs create so all that dirt doesn't end up on the ball and playfield. This makes the games better for operators, casual players ( how many have had a bad 1st experience because of a dirty/busted pin and never tried the game again?) and hard-core pinheads.

    #140 4 years ago
    Quoted from megadeth2600:

    One final note ... "analog" does NOT NOT NOT imply "bad" ... marketing people hate the word analog since it implies old/unreliable

    YOU'RE ANALOG!

    #141 4 years ago
    Quoted from megadeth2600:

    While I am not an expert (i.e. I could be missing something), I think you can make these switches reliable by processing them digitally.
    On the games you mentioned, they were using an analog solution. They look for a change in reference signal amplitude to detect the presence of a ball. The problem you run into here is that the sense amplifier drifts over time due to various factors (temperature, changes in semiconductor properties, etc) ... that's why you need to tweak that pot on occasion.
    I believe there is a really good product out there for these games that can self adjust so that you don't have to mess with that pot every now and then.
    Doing the sensing digitally can make the circuit a lot more reliable. The tradeoff is that you need more processing horsepower ... especially if you want to sense multiple switches! There's also a change in frequency when a ball is present. It's more difficult to sense this using an analog circuit, but a breeze to sense this digitally if you have more processing power. Since the processor in a modern pin is a lot more powerful, you can do a lot more signal processing to detect frequency changes to the reference signal.
    One final note ... "analog" does NOT NOT NOT imply "bad" ... marketing people hate the word analog since it implies old/unreliable ... bad digital solutions can be a bigger nightmare to maintain . They used an analog solution since the older 6809 probably couldn't do everything that it needed to do to detect frequency shifts while driving the entire game. You need to sample the signals rather frequently to resolve the state of the Eddy sensor. That chews up cycles on the processor.

    Here you go
    ebay.com link » New Lj12a3 4 Z Bx Inductive Proximity Sensor Switch Npn Dc6 36v

    Problem solved.

    #142 4 years ago
    Quoted from Baiter:

    The point of the backbox is to make the game identifiable in an arcade. If you think pinball should be 100% in people's basements, or pinball should only be in exclusively-pinball locations, I suppose your point is valid. If not that that, your point is completely ridiculous. Arcade games are tall, have big flashy signs, even toppers... the point is to attract people to come over and play them. Without a backbox a pinball machine is an unidentifiable table from afar.

    I agree that in a public place, it needs some form of eye catching advertisement. An easily detachable light-weight plastic lit sign though would be a lot easier though for that purpose. I just don't understand the pneed for a foldable full-size wooden back box anymore for advertising purposes. Seems like a waste of money, space, and unnecessary weight, especially now that they're just single uv bulb backlit marques in modern games.

    #143 4 years ago

    I've seen these toys around. Looks like fun. Would be cool if implemented in a pinball game somehow.

    #144 4 years ago

    I'd like to see electroluminescent (EL) animated playfield plastics. Model railroaders are doing some very cool work with that tech: http://www.microstru.com/Animated-signs.html

    #145 4 years ago
    Quoted from Tribonian:

    I'd like to see electroluminescent (EL) animated playfield plastics. Model railroaders are doing some very cool work with that tech: http://www.microstru.com/Animated-signs.html

    That's very cool! I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the modders start utilizing that tech.

    #146 4 years ago
    Quoted from Tribonian:

    I'd like to see electroluminescent (EL) animated playfield plastics. Model railroaders are doing some very cool work with that tech: http://www.microstru.com/Animated-signs.html

    Wow, I've not seen that yet. Some pretty cool ideas there.

    #147 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    That's very cool! I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the modders start utilizing that tech.

    Isn't this what the Moe's Tavern and Drunken Clam mods are using? I haven't seen either in person, but I'm pretty sure they're using EL sheets.

    #148 4 years ago

    The problem with el is it looses brightness over time. I think its like 1000hrs to loose 1/2 brightness. Not something you want to use on location.

    #149 4 years ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    The problem with el is it looses brightness over time. I think its like 1000hrs to loose 1/2 brightness. Not something you want to use on location.

    Depends on the frequency it is running at, on average EL will become half as bright after 2800 - 3000 hours running at 2000Hz.

    Typical incandescent bulbs last 1,000 to 2,000 hours - that is the mean time to failure: half the bulbs will fail by that point. And because lamp manufacturing has become so routine, most of the rest will fail within 100 hours or so of that point.

    #150 4 years ago

    Compared to LEDs MTBF... Id think that be the better choice for new designs

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