(Topic ID: 125955)

Ideas that would change pinball


By flashinstinct

4 years ago



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  • 155 posts
  • 70 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by thedefog
  • Topic is favorited by 16 Pinsiders

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    There are 155 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 4.
    #51 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Well, steel balls have specific properties, one of which is weight. They already fly around, I can't see an acrylic ball being the same or slower!

    Isn't the powerball in TZ also lighter? I don't see it being a problem if acrylic balls are the same weight.

    #52 4 years ago
    Quoted from JoelOmatik:

    I like it. To add to your idea, how about encapsulating an LED inside, so it looks like a glowing orb rolling around? In the meantime, I'd like to see fully clear, shatter-proof colored acrylic balls. They'd obviously only be used for games with non-magnetic features, but would still be cool nonetheless. Something like this:
    image.jpg

    Are you talking about marbles?

    #53 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I had an idea for a more RPG type of pinball play, where each player chooses a character to play as, and those characters have different strengths and weaknesses.
    For the game in question, there is also a "territory" aspect where each character has territory and can attack their neighbours to take over their territory, like how RISK works. So perhaps one character has weaker stats than the others so their progress might be harder, but has better territory at the start of the game. Or one character might get more points for drop targets while another gets more for ramps or combos. That way skilled players can use actual strategy to play instead of pure skill shots.
    I can't imagine anyone in the wild would be able to figure it out but for home players it would definitely work. Like how BoP 2.0 has a "standard and 2.0" menu at game start, the game could default to "standard" pinball but allow a user to select "advanced" or "Player Vs Player" mode by holding the start button in at game start.

    Actually, Doctor Who already does something similar to that. At the beginning of the game, you get to choose a Doctor, and each one gives the player a unique advantage. It's not quite as extensive as you describe, but similar.

    Anyways, how about putting some metal plates on the sides where people place their hands, that can shock the player?! Totally safe, and tons of fun, right?

    #54 4 years ago

    That is cool but I meant more about just tracking all stats or my 'character' as I level up by getting X multiballs or X jackpots.

    #55 4 years ago
    Quoted from mystman12:

    how about putting some metal plates on the sides where people place their hands, that can shock the player?! Totally safe, and tons of fun, right?

    I've owned a few games that already do this!

    Grounding faults...

    #56 4 years ago

    I'm repeating what I read somewhere - it would be cool the latest & greatest pinball machines had virtual tables in Pinball Arcade or somewhere that were available from the moment a game is released. That way you could practice hitting all the shots and figuring out how the game plays, then you could take your newfound knowledge back to the real table and make it happen! Maybe you could scan a QC code on the real pinball to give bonuses on the virtual table, and vice versa.

    I would also like to see someone take a crack at a Hyperball-esque pin, but that'll never happen

    #57 4 years ago
    Quoted from flecom:

    you ever owned a machine with eddy sensors? ToM? CV? etc? they are a pain and take up a lot of space under the playfield for the detector board and then the amplifier board

    That's like saying those mainframe computers sure take up a lot of space and are a pain to fix! Sensors have come a long way since eddy sensors. Inductives can be tiny (at the expense of range) and are completely self contained. A lot like LEDs!

    #58 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    That is cool but I meant more about just tracking all stats or my 'character' as I level up by getting X multiballs or X jackpots.

    Gotcha covered there too. The P3 framework will support achievements in addition to a number of other features mentioned in this thread. Despite the low ROI on these and various network-related features, I believe all new pinball machines from all new manufacturers should have them. We certainly will.

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    #59 4 years ago

    I think it would be cool to see a multi-dimensional game with multiple playfields like Pinball Circus. It is a work of art and challenging trying to get to the top and accomplish objectives. So much going on, I wish they would have made more. If PPS did a re-make-I would be all over it. I tried finding a video of someone getting all the way to the top that is clear-hard to find.

    Pinball Circus.jpg
    #60 4 years ago

    Maybe not a game-changer, but I think the shooter lane is a tremendous waste of precious pf width. Better to launch the ball from between the flippers or elsewhere

    #61 4 years ago
    Quoted from pinmister:

    I think it would be cool to see a multi-dimensional game with multiple playfields like Pinball Circus. It is a work of art and challenging trying to get to the top and accomplish objectives. So much going on, I wish they would have made more. If PPS did a re-make-I would be all over it.

    I guess you don't know this, but there's a group remaking Pinball Circus right now, and taking it beyond the prototype to complete Python's vision for the game.

    #62 4 years ago

    I would love a game that is way easier to maintain. Why should you have to unscrew 100 separate components and take a hundred pictures just to shop out a game? The ramps, toys, plastics, and devices on the playfield should be integrated together as 2-4 total components. They latch onto the playfield as a unit and all the electronics are connected by one plug. All you have to do to shop and clean a game is unhitch 2-4 latches and unplug 2-4 connectors. Everything can then plug back in place when you are done. Easy as pie. This would be ideal both for unskilled home users like me and operators on location.

    #63 4 years ago
    Quoted from Erik:

    Maybe not a game-changer, but I think the shooter lane is a tremendous waste of precious pf width. Better to launch the ball from between the flippers or elsewhere

    Check.

    Quoted from Nokoro:

    I would love a game that is way easier to maintain. Why should you have to unscrew 100 separate components and take a hundred pictures just to shop out a game? All you have to do to shop and clean a game is unhitch 2-4 latches and unplug 2-4 connectors. Everything can then plug back in place when you are done. Easy as pie. This would be ideal both for unskilled home users like me and operators on location.

    Check.

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    #64 4 years ago

    Haha I'm looking forward to trying P3 one day. Any chance it makes SFGE this year?

    #65 4 years ago
    Quoted from Erik:

    Haha I'm looking forward to trying P3 one day. Any chance it makes SFGE this year?

    Yep - we'll be there! I'll look forward to meeting you.

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    #66 4 years ago

    Not my idea but wonder why this isn't pursued :

    It would seem something like this coupled with a flipper button with a "curve" could make for a different take on shooting the ball. IOW, it should be possible to design a flipper button that would be graduated. So instead of being a flipper that was always pulsed or taken to 100% of it's action, a player could push the button 50% and the flipper would only travel 50%.

    I'm also curious why some inventive machine shop operator hasn't "turned" out some custom posts to replace plastic components. There does seem to be a current trend to be inventive with lighting and rubber components. Maybe some of the hardware could benefit from a different point of view.

    And, will any of the manufacturers make an effort to either lighten or balance the games? Obviously a key factor of any play is the ability to nudge a machine. Big heavy games play much different than many of the older, lighter wedge heads. I would think that if a proper effort was made to reduce as much bulk and place as much mass as low as possible the movement of a game could change significantly.

    #67 4 years ago

    I'd love optical illusions like this, and any other MC Escher-esque designs that could fit into a pinball cabinet.

    #68 4 years ago
    Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

    Or imagine being able to use the technology to fix a pin. Everything you need to touch or do is highlighted in the display. Need to change a flipper? The hololens will guide you through each step

    reminds me of this augmented reality demo BMW did for servicing engines:

    Quoted from BagAJellyDonuts:

    Not my idea but wonder why this isn't pursued :

    » YouTube video

    Ha! that's my video I posted long before I really started collecting. Door actuators are cheap ($5), but they don't quite have the oomph for a full size table. Maybe a reasonable replacement for a zizzle machine?

    #69 4 years ago

    I'd like to see games with a beginner mode, similar to tournament mode but makes the game easier instead of harder. Longer ball save, fewer balls locked to start multiball, more ways to start modes, a mechanism to automatically move the outline posts closer together (have them slowly moved outwards if the game goes for too long) etc. Knock a couple of zeros off the scoring scale to compensate, and disable the wizard mode. Non-pinheads don't really care if a game has a deep ruleset or balanced scoring, they just want to see the toys and features in action. Give them what they want and they might just come back for more. And if they get a better score from an average game in standard mode than from a great game in beginner mode, they are more likely to keep playing at the higher level.

    #70 4 years ago
    Quoted from Circus_Animal:

    I'd like to see games with a beginner mode, similar to tournament mode but makes the game easier instead of harder. Longer ball save, fewer balls locked to start multiball, more ways to start modes, a mechanism to automatically move the outline posts closer together (have them slowly moved outwards if the game goes for too long) etc. Knock a couple of zeros off the scoring scale to compensate, and disable the wizard mode. Non-pinheads don't really care if a game has a deep ruleset or balanced scoring, they just want to see the toys and features in action. Give them what they want and they might just come back for more. And if they get a better score from an average game in standard mode than from a great game in beginner mode, they are more likely to keep playing at the higher level.

    Then you should try Golden Eye . They have two modes two start the game. I'm surprised the concept never took off.

    10
    #71 4 years ago

    If we could have anything near what WMS puts in slot machines these days it would be tremendous. Transmissive LCDs on the tables, for example. Imagine the upper clear layer of a transmissive LCD mapping specific shot vectors on the table. Inserts are no longer individual pieces, but displayed instead as graphics. You wouldn't need to take your eyes off the table to look up at mini modes on an LCD backbox or DMD, it would all happen right on the playfield.

    OLED buttons can be made into OLED targets. The durable tech is already there in our local casinos. Targets could evolve on the fly, show completed hits, display video graphics. The whole game could be made wild with color. With flexible OLEDs, even ramps could be made to display video graphics.

    1WMSTramReels.jpg
    #72 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Well, steel balls have specific properties, one of which is weight. They already fly around, I can't see an acrylic ball being the same or slower!

    This can be evened off a little bit with weaker solenoids. 30v solenoids may be all thats needed on a flipper to get the ball up around tall ramps if they're lighter, and 12v solenoids for jet bumpers/kickouts/etc. Lower power is always nice.

    The power savings could be used for other features mentioned- mini lcd inserts, multi-displays (in playfield and in backbox), more powerful computer system, cabinet lighting effects, ect...

    #73 4 years ago

    Bluetooth for sound. Easy pairing for a headset. Seems like a NO BRAINER!

    #74 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jgaltr56:

    ... The rest is software.

    I think that right there would kill all possibility for it being implemented...they cant even cope with the software they have NOW.

    Still, it's a GREAT IDEA. Possibilities for some self-contained mods are rolling through my mind...lol.

    #75 4 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Bluetooth for sound. Easy pairing for a headset. Seems like a NO BRAINER!

    Hate headsets.

    #76 4 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    This can be evened off a little bit with weaker solenoids. 30v solenoids may be all thats needed on a flipper to get the ball up around tall ramps if they're lighter, and 12v solenoids for jet bumpers/kickouts/etc. Lower power is always nice.

    Nope, gonna get rid of solenoids for those altogether

    schwebemagnet_1.JPG
    #77 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    If we could have anything near what WMS puts in slot machines these days it would be tremendous. Transmissive LCDs on the tables, for example.

    Heighway pinball did some work with a transmissive LCD as the playfield glass, they got as far as the prototype stage. I'm not sure if they are planning to bring the idea back.

    See here:
    http://www.pinballnews.com/games/circe/index5.html

    #78 4 years ago
    Quoted from solarvalue:

    Heighway pinball did some work with a transmissive LCD as the playfield glass, they got as far as the prototype stage. I'm not sure if they are planning to bring the idea back.
    See here:
    http://www.pinballnews.com/games/circe/index5.html

    Thanks for the article. Interesting the kinds of challenges that you don't really expect to run into until you start to do some R&D prototyping:
    "At present, there are just two downsides to the LCD playfield glass - the fact it's not totally transparent in the clear areas, producing a fine mesh effect, and how the playfield is effectively the LCD panel's backlight, which in turn demands much more light on the playfield in order to see the LCD panel's output."

    #79 4 years ago

    No idea how well it would work, but what about using a one-way mirror for the playfield glass to allow light to exit the machine but not enter it? That would give the game designers much more control over how the playfield is illuminated. Using clear glass, the player's view of the action can vary greatly depending on the ambient lighting so even if the game's lights go out the playfield can be clearly seen if the room is well lit.

    This would open the door to some great features: turn off the lights facing the lower playfield to hide the flippers (similar to Tommy's blinder), or illuminate the flippers and have the upper playfield in darkness (possibly with inserts lit to indicate shots), use moving coloured lights for a disco effect (with a mirror ball???), have all lights off except for one narrow pathway from the flipper to the next target that needs to be hit. Of course the wizard mode would be Strobe Multiball...

    #80 4 years ago

    DP is integrating a lot of this in BOP 2.0
    Live scoring
    Worldwide leaderboards
    Profiles
    Trophies for completing goals
    Video modes that you can program and will sync to your game

    Can only imagine these will be used as building blocks for TBL and future titles too

    #81 4 years ago
    Quoted from dagamedoc:

    I think that right there would kill all possibility for it being implemented...they cant even cope with the software they have NOW.
    Still, it's a GREAT IDEA. Possibilities for some self-contained mods are rolling through my mind...lol.

    Yes, very true. I did not mean to trivialize the software part at all. I know of more than a few Fortune 500 companies that have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on RFID hardware only to scrap it all because they couldn't figure out what to do with the roving data!

    #82 4 years ago

    I've always thought using an internet connection to play head-to-head against friends at another location would be awesome. The possibilities of cool stuff you could do would only be limited by the imagination.

    #83 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I've always thought using an internet connection to play head-to-head against friends at another location would be awesome. The possibilities of cool stuff you could do would only be limited by the imagination.

    Well, Pinball 2000 (RFM) has it - at least for scoring anyway.
    http://www.mypinballs.com/tournament/

    #84 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    Well, Pinball 2000 (RFM) has it - at least for scoring anyway.
    http://www.mypinballs.com/tournament/

    I'm talking about simultaneous play where things you do directly affect things on the other person's game. Imagine being able to collect "smart bombs" that could be used to trigger penalties on the other player's playfield. For example, you could be given these choices ...

    1 - Raise drop targets that prevent the other player from shooting a certain ramp
    2 - Reverse their flippers
    3 - have them lose x amount of points
    4 - Make their outlane gaps wider

    This kind of interactivity would take pinball into a whole new direction and would be a major game changer.

    #85 4 years ago

    I think so much can be done now just with programming.

    Simple things like selecting to play a heads up game. Player 1 is then the positive socre and player 2 is the negative scorer. As player 1 plays they rack up points in the positive direction and then player 2 has points go in the negative direction. This creates a more competitive heads up style of play and honestly adds some excitement to playing a game with a buddy.

    I would love to see more games with selectable play styles. For example, I know when mustang first came out and had no real code they had some sort of 2 min, automatic 3 ball multiball. To me this would be a really fun option to have. I pay my buck and then select 2 min multiball for 2 minutes. The game goes on for 2 min with ball save and then continues till I lose my last ball.

    Mini modes >> I know Frank was doing this with WOOLY. Great and fun way for peopel to play a different poriotn of a game they may not normally get to.

    These are just some simple ideas that are already possible, it just takes programming to make it happen.

    #86 4 years ago
    Quoted from Det_Deckard:

    Scrap all metal balls. They beat the hell out of everything. Maybe, something like a metal core with a rubber or plastics exterior.

    Modmypin have GLO-BALLS and Fluorescent Balls in colors of white, blue, pink, orange and green.

    http://modmypin.com/

    #87 4 years ago
    Quoted from gweempose:

    I'm talking about simultaneous play where things you do directly affect things on the other person's game. Imagine being able to collect "smart bombs" that could be used to trigger penalties on the other player's playfield. For example, you could be given these choices ...
    1 - Raise drop targets that prevent the other player from shooting a certain ramp
    2 - Reverse their flippers
    3 - have them lose x amount of points
    4 - Make their outlane gaps wider
    This kind of interactivity would take pinball into a whole new direction and would be a major game changer.

    This sounds an awful lot like what's planned for Multimorphic's Cosmic Cart Racing, at least based on the information posted on their web site. Even better, it'll be open source.

    What they're doing is pretty incredible, or at least I think so

    #88 4 years ago
    Quoted from flashinstinct:

    RFID READERS AND CHIPS
    I keep coming back to the idea of integrating some form of technology that could detect a specific pinball on the playfield. This could widely increase the amount of things you could do with gameplay. Imagine getting a 5 ball multiball but the shots only get counted if a specific ball goes through a specific ramp or hits a specific target. Instead of having optos detect the ball....they are replaced with RFID readers.
    I know this is a daydream but not sure if produced on a mass scale if this would be feasible.

    Funny, I said the exact same thing a day before this thread started. Serendipity?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ball-sorting-under-game-logic?tq&tu=law

    Yes, it'd be feasible, at least in my experience. The tricky thing would be that you'd need some sort of setup routine (automated or otherwise) that figures out what all the RFIDs mean unless you got them manufactured with specific GUID ranges per color or something, which would be more expensive. At least I assume they'd be more expensive never had custom RFID stuff made, just used off-the-shelf stuff. Ceramic balls are already pretty expensive as-is, adding four or a half dozen to a machine at current "customer" powerball prices would be what, a hundred bucks? Compared to a dollar or so for standard balls? That's a really, really expensive feature. And that's not taking into consideration that the ones currently available play so differently from standard balls.

    #89 4 years ago
    Quoted from Det_Deckard:

    Hire a bunch of japanese developers who do pachinko machines and have them add the same bells and whistles to pinball.

    +1! I've always felt that combining the "bling" of pachinko with pins was a natural progression. Imagine having a BG similar to this:

    #90 4 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I think so much can be done now just with programming.

    Like, release a finished product? *ducks*

    #91 4 years ago

    I am speechless LOL

    never even knew that existed

    My idea has already been released... yay for me

    #92 4 years ago
    Quoted from JoelOmatik:

    Isn't the powerball in TZ also lighter? I don't see it being a problem if acrylic balls are the same weight.

    Yes, it's lighter but also travels much faster as a result. Not that it kills the idea but if game wasn't designed with that in mind it may not play as intended.

    #93 4 years ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    Bluetooth for sound. Easy pairing for a headset. Seems like a NO BRAINER!

    Good idea. Someone with a little know-how could make this as a mod. Anyone?

    #94 4 years ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    Good idea. Someone with a little know-how could make this as a mod. Anyone?

    Pinnovators has this for WOZ...it's called "Pintooth"

    #95 4 years ago
    Quoted from wayout440:

    If we could have anything near what WMS puts in slot machines these days it would be tremendous. Transmissive LCDs on the tables, for example. Imagine the upper clear layer of a transmissive LCD mapping specific shot vectors on the table. Inserts are no longer individual pieces, but displayed instead as graphics. You wouldn't need to take your eyes off the table to look up at mini modes on an LCD backbox or DMD, it would all happen right on the playfield.
    OLED buttons can be made into OLED targets. The durable tech is already there in our local casinos. Targets could evolve on the fly, show completed hits, display video graphics. The whole game could be made wild with color. With flexible OLEDs, even ramps could be made to display video graphics.

    I'm extremely surprised nobody has eliminated the backbox yet. I know some would scream in opposition, but what is the point anymore? A cab has no reason being much bigger than a PF anymore, I'm sure it can be done and not look cheap either. I hate moving pins so much, that the thought of a 80 lbs easy to move game is very appealing to me. If you're going to start innovating, that is the first place to do it. Glad HWY did some of that with their design. I'm sure ops would love that too.

    #96 4 years ago

    Most will say because a pinball is about the art and drawing in the player, but I agree completely.

    I WANT a color display in the apron so I can see game status where I am looking. I would love to do away with the backbox completely. Save the weight, cut the resources, and realy no reason for it anymore.

    With Stern doing the Spike system and borards getting smaller, eliminating the backbox would be great.

    No more dented side rails. No more folding down and wrapping head to cab. Plenty of art on the pf and cab for me!

    #97 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    I'm extremely surprised nobody has eliminated the backbox yet. I know some would scream in opposition, but what is the point anymore? A cab has no reason being much bigger than a PF anymore, I'm sure it can be done and not look cheap either. I hate moving pins so much, that the thought of a 80 lbs easy to move game is very appealing to me. If you're going to start innovating, that is the first place to do it. Glad HWY did some of that with their design. I'm sure ops would love that too.

    I can understand why people wouldn't want to completely eliminate the backbox. It would make the new pins look weird in a typical lineup. It wouldn't be difficult, however, to design a backbox that's super easy to take take off and put back on.

    #98 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    I'm extremely surprised nobody has eliminated the backbox yet.

    P3 was working on that and ran into fierce opposition.

    LTG : )™

    #99 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    I'm extremely surprised nobody has eliminated the backbox yet. I know some would scream in

    Quoted from LTG:

    P3 was working on that and ran into fierce opposition.

    As I understand it, that's 100% true. I don't know the details there but it looks like Multimorphic is going with a backbox.

    I prefer a backbox even if it's largely useless. It's nicer than looking at the wall behind the machine or another machine/player across from it and gets you into a kind of "playing bubble". It also comes down to a compare against other machines. Whether or not you're an operator or a collector or a hobbyist or whatever, you take a machine with no backbox and sit it next to one that has one and what do you see from a little ways away? Not much on the machine with no backbox.

    Pinball has the inherent downside of being horizontal-ish. Go to a modern arcade and see how many of their games are horizontal with no kind of marquee. If anything they're ridiculously oversized and waaaaay taller than they need to be just to grab your attention.

    #100 4 years ago
    Quoted from Law:

    I prefer a backbox even if it's largely useless. It's nicer than looking at the wall behind the machine or another machine/player across from it and gets you into a kind of "playing bubble".

    I get the aesthetic reasoning behind it, but it would only appear weird because we are used to seeing pins with them. If something were designed to be, say, maybe 1/4 the size that was easily removable, maybe that would be a compromise. Besides, I have lots of art to hang and not enough wallspace, it would be fine for me to be able to put up some art or something behind the pin. It would be more of an issue on location obviously next to other pins.

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