(Topic ID: 125955)

Ideas that would change pinball


By flashinstinct

4 years ago



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  • Latest reply 4 years ago by thedefog
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    11
    #1 4 years ago

    It would be fun to learn about the ideas/opinions that people have that could help advance pinball. Face it pinball hasn't changed much in the past 20 years.

    RFID READERS AND CHIPS
    I keep coming back to the idea of integrating some form of technology that could detect a specific pinball on the playfield. This could widely increase the amount of things you could do with gameplay. Imagine getting a 5 ball multiball but the shots only get counted if a specific ball goes through a specific ramp or hits a specific target. Instead of having optos detect the ball....they are replaced with RFID readers.

    I know this is a daydream but not sure if produced on a mass scale if this would be feasible.

    RFID Embedded in metal white paper
    http://www.xerafy.com/userfiles/misc/resources/whitepapers/can-RFID-tags-work-inside-metal.pdf

    Mini RFID reader
    M1-mini.jpg
    Readers wouldn't have to be placed on the playfield, but could also be placed under the playfield. Additionally each reader could have their own frequency and range (2-4cm). So they would not conflict with one another. They are relitively cheap....and I assume if purcahsed on mass QTYs they would be even cheaper.

    Imagine for instance having a Fast and Furious pinball with a stakeout spot on the playfield. The spot is occupied by a "tagged police" pinball. When triggered the ball gets launched onto the playfield during gameplay. Your goal would be to get pinball "tagged turetto" onto the container truck. But if you shoot pinball "police" in the container then you lose the mode and have to restart and lose points.

    I can think of a million scenerios of this and you greatly evolve pinball gameplay.

    Obvisouly pinball folks would have to equip themselves with a RFID encoder. Balls come pakacaged uncoded. You place the ball near the encoder and enter the code for each specific ball and insert them in your game.

    Thoughts ideas...?

    #2 4 years ago

    I sold RFID technology for many years. All you described is possible and more. Each data tag normally comes with a unique serial number from the factory so there would be no conflicts. High freq systems can read/write data to all the tags within range simultaneously. So...each ball could be read and updated with new data every time it's in range. I didn't read your link yet but it sounds like they figured out a way to read through metal. In my experience metal anywhere near the tag or reader would reduce the range or block it completely. Kind of like trying to get a radio to work in a metal building. As you said the memory tags are inexpensive. This technology has been around for 30 years so it is getting pretty inexpensive and miniature these days. I bet you could put together a single USB read/write head and some tags for around $100 in total. The rest is software. Check out EBay for some examples.

    #3 4 years ago

    You could do something like this today without the RFID. Of you had a ramp that had an eddy sensor and an opto, it could detect the difference between a power ball going up it or a steel ball. Just a thought. I like to keep things simple.

    I like where this thread could go though! Favorited.

    --Scott

    #4 4 years ago

    I thought about this, too. You could have different colored balls and have to do specific things with each ball. That would make multiball very interesting. If the game could track balls then maybe switches could be heavily minimized, too.

    31
    #5 4 years ago

    How about adding a mechanism that would self-level and adjust the playfield? First, it prevents having to level the playfield every time it's moved - so there's the convenience. But more importantly, game modes could adjust the incline during play. Perhaps a skiing-themed game where different run difficulties increase the incline more and more to make shots harder - the double-diamond run multiball makes the incline very steep and the shots have to be perfect to hit them!

    Or another - add WiFi and NFC to machines, and release a free app. You can walk up to any machine, use your app as your first ball sits in the shooter lane, and now the game knows your profile. Your score is uploaded to your phone afterwards, perhaps available on a web site, and initials are auto-entered. Now you can track your scores over time on a specific machine and compare to friends. Operators can keep track remotely of machine use and earnings, and get instant alerts if there's a problem.

    #6 4 years ago
    Quoted from GibGirl:

    Or another - add WiFi and NFC to machines, and release a free app. You can walk up to any machine, use your app as your first ball sits in the shooter lane, and now the game knows your profile. Your score is uploaded to your phone afterwards, perhaps available on a web site, and initials are auto-entered. Now you can track your scores over time on a specific machine and compare to friends. Operators can keep track remotely of machine use and earnings, and get instant alerts if there's a problem.

    That would be awesome.

    #7 4 years ago

    Heighway is on the right track by using inductive sensors to detect balls. It's amazing to me that new pinball machines still use mechanical switches.

    Who is going to release the first wifi enabled pin? I would think it would be an easy add on for a Spike system.

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from GibGirl:

    Or another - add WiFi and NFC to machines, and release a free app. You can walk up to any machine, use your app as your first ball sits in the shooter lane, and now the game knows your profile. Your score is uploaded to your phone afterwards, perhaps available on a web site, and initials are auto-entered. Now you can track your scores over time on a specific machine and compare to friends. Operators can keep track remotely of machine use and earnings, and get instant alerts if there's a problem.

    I would love some kind of progress tracking with pinball, something like Initial D, Derby Owner's Club, or rhythm games where you get a card or USB that can save your game and unlock new stuff over long periods of time. There could be achievements, statistics of how well you play, weekly quests to earn credits

    #9 4 years ago

    I always had an idea for Surround Sound on a pinball machine

    you walk up to a pin and there are 2 metal arms bolted to each front leg (using outer side of leg bolt) that wrap around the player in a upward fashion with speakers that would give you a real game playing experience

    not sure it could ever work on location, but it a home why not

    10
    #10 4 years ago

    I'm still waiting for mini LCDs mounted as inserts in the playfield to convey shot values and meanings with animated graphics.

    Has that been done yet?

    #11 4 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    I'm still waiting for mini LCDs mounted as inserts in the playfield to convey shot values and meanings with animated graphics.
    Has that been done yet?

    that is used quite a but on slot machines

    I see that at work daily, they show animations during bonus rounds, and during play show you betX
    (1X,2X,3X,4X,5X) MAX BET

    technology is definitely there, now to implement that in a pin

    #12 4 years ago

    I like the idea of saving progress, like an RPG. If you play pinball FX2, the knight table did that pretty well (the name escapes me). Basically, you can gain loot as you progress.

    It seems like entering a code before you start playing would be feasible.

    #13 4 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    I'm still waiting for mini LCDs mounted as inserts in the playfield to convey shot values and meanings with animated graphics.
    Has that been done yet?

    Great idea. I remember seeing the Optimus LED keyboard years back and never really saw that kind of technology take off until the slot machines. There could be so many good uses in pinball with this technology.

    #14 4 years ago
    Quoted from GibGirl:

    How about adding a mechanism that would self-level and adjust the playfield? First, it prevents having to level the playfield every time it's moved - so there's the convenience. But more importantly, game modes could adjust the incline during play. Perhaps a skiing-themed game where different run difficulties increase the incline more and more to make shots harder - the double-diamond run multiball makes the incline very steep and the shots have to be perfect to hit them!

    Yeah, I've thought about that before too! Like, it could be a vehicle based game, and at certain times you would brake the vehicle really fast, and the playfield would incline really fast to make the balls go flying towards the flippers. Or you could have a mode where you go to the moon, and the payfield would level out and make the balls feel floatier! Maybe even have some inverted flippers at the top of the playfield and totally reverse the playfield angle so the balls go backwards. Lots of neat things could be done!

    #15 4 years ago

    Memory is cheap. They should just program it in so you can step up to a game, hold the left flipper button before pressing start and you are setup to enter player initials prior to game play. Then have the machine track everything per payer.

    I would love to be able to jump into the tracking menu on a game and see if a buddy got more super jackpots than me.

    #16 4 years ago

    Hawkmoon,adds,i see a few good ideas here,a self leveling play fields something I've often dreamed about,most of the rest is just hi-tech fun,ok!!!But,now,connect to wifi,mmmm,big brother is always the EYE ;good theme for a new hobbit hi-tech game,the EYE watches and sends the ring wraiths to get you!!!

    #17 4 years ago
    Quoted from GibGirl:

    How about adding a mechanism that would self-level and adjust the playfield? First, it prevents having to level the playfield every time it's moved - so there's the convenience. But more importantly, game modes could adjust the incline during play.

    I've been throwing around an idea for a space pinball machine for a while now. Kinda a spiritual sequal to Space Shuttle and Space Station. Basically, after filling up at the space station you are now traveling to different planets. Each planet could have it's own "gravity." For example: in space the playfield is at like 4.5 deg, on normal planets and your space ship it's 6.5 deg, on some planets it's 8.5 deg. It would use servos and accelerometers to control the playfield tilt.

    #18 4 years ago
    Quoted from DefaultGen:

    I would love some kind of progress tracking with pinball, something like Initial D, Derby Owner's Club, or rhythm games where you get a card or USB that can save your game and unlock new stuff over long periods of time. There could be achievements, statistics of how well you play, weekly quests to earn credits

    I know its not "real" but Pinball FX2 has a table called Epic Quest, where you level up your hero/adventurer and get new items which are then saved and can be used on future plays.

    But I agree, having some sort of card or app that lets a machine know its "you" would work well with Pinball as well.

    #19 4 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    I like the idea of saving progress, like an RPG. If you play pinball FX2, the knight table did that pretty well (the name escapes me). Basically, you can gain loot as you progress.
    It seems like entering a code before you start playing would be feasible.

    I'm actually making a prototype of a game similar to this now. I wanted to wipe the current rules aside as they are geared towards making money with limited ball/game times for the most part. I wanted to re-imagine it as designed for HUO. Most games made, if you can hit the ball for an infinite time period your score will go towards infinity as well (easier said than done I know). With my design, you can end your game on only one ball, or go through 12. You can also save progress and change variations of the rules quite drastically for different games under the same theme (quick timed dash to X score, then player two plays with the timer counting down, game ends when it hits 0 or they hit the score quicker, etc).

    I'm also trying to use analog gauges (think speedometer) for showing progress in the apron. They are controlled digitally by stepper motors so they really are not analog... Not sure why Full Throttle didn't do this and instead make gauges on their LCD. Could have been a really good fit for their theme.

    --Kevin

    #20 4 years ago
    Quoted from orangestorm87:

    I know its not "real" but Pinball FX2 has a table called Epic Quest, where you level up your hero/adventurer and get new items which are then saved and can be used on future plays.
    But I agree, having some sort of card or app that lets a machine know its "you" would work well with Pinball as well.

    Yeah I like Epic Quest, but I'd love if that was applied to real pinball. For some reason when I go to the arcade and plug my USB stick into a Pump it Up machine to bring up my profile, it feels really cool having that on location. When a PS2 game in my house saves my game, it's just expected. It certainly makes me want to play on location more.

    #21 4 years ago

    I see the primary benefit of WiFi to connect to a leader board, or an ongoing virtual tournament. It's been debated fairly extensively that there's no foolproof way to compare scores on different machines on different days, or even different times of day, so adding the technology to do so would be the key. For example you register with the machine, and it automatically adjusts to tournament settings including specific outline gaps, slope, verify that the glass is on, etc

    Even for the home, the ability to have a game automatically adjust settings for casual vs pro players would be a benefit, as everyone acknowledges it's far too much effort to change leveling, slope, outlane gaps, and software settings between games to make it fun for everyone. In fact the ability to switch these between balls is a great way to promote competitive handicaps in a multi-player match.

    #22 4 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    I like the idea of saving progress, like an RPG. If you play pinball FX2, the knight table did that pretty well (the name escapes me). Basically, you can gain loot as you progress.
    It seems like entering a code before you start playing would be feasible.

    you could do this on drivers from the late 90s, so should be able to do this today.

    #23 4 years ago
    Quoted from Deaconblooze:

    I like the idea of saving progress, like an RPG. If you play pinball FX2, the knight table did that pretty well (the name escapes me). Basically, you can gain loot as you progress.
    It seems like entering a code before you start playing would be feasible.

    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Memory is cheap. They should just program it in so you can step up to a game, hold the left flipper button before pressing start and you are setup to enter player initials prior to game play. Then have the machine track everything per payer.
    I would love to be able to jump into the tracking menu on a game and see if a buddy got more super jackpots than me.

    - Gerry
    http://www.multimorphic.com

    #25 4 years ago

    Seems straight forward to put Outlane posts on a motor and screw gear to electronically adjust the gaps. Then either connect to wifi player profiles or set to difficulty setting at game start up. Having the player profiles would be awesome. Just not feasible to retrofit games with it unfortunately.. Great feature to introduce in new games though.

    #27 4 years ago
    Quoted from TheCnyPinGuy:

    I always had an idea for Surround Sound on a pinball machine
    you walk up to a pin and there are 2 metal arms bolted to each front leg (using outer side of leg bolt) that wrap around the player in a upward fashion with speakers that would give you a real game playing experience
    not sure it could ever work on location, but it a home why not

    309445-i.jpg
    #28 4 years ago

    I think giant LCD screens like in JJ games would change pinball for the better

    #29 4 years ago
    Quoted from GibGirl:

    How about adding a mechanism that would self-level and adjust the playfield? First, it prevents having to level the playfield every time it's moved - so there's the convenience. But more importantly, game modes could adjust the incline during play. Perhaps a skiing-themed game where different run difficulties increase the incline more and more to make shots harder - the double-diamond run multiball makes the incline very steep and the shots have to be perfect to hit them!
    Or another - add WiFi and NFC to machines, and release a free app. You can walk up to any machine, use your app as your first ball sits in the shooter lane, and now the game knows your profile. Your score is uploaded to your phone afterwards, perhaps available on a web site, and initials are auto-entered. Now you can track your scores over time on a specific machine and compare to friends. Operators can keep track remotely of machine use and earnings, and get instant alerts if there's a problem.

    Excellent ideas! The combination of these two opens up something pretty interesting: comparable score tracking across machines / locations. If you had a self-leveling mechanism that worked precisely the same for each machine, it wouldn't matter where the game was set up or on what surface. The game would hypothetically play the same, and global score tracking might actually mean something - you wouldn't have to worry about the nuance of how a game is leveled, or what components were functioning or weren't. A wifi connection could upload scores along with a report of the state of the machine at time of play, including whether or not a coil worked, lights were out, angle of playfield, etc. Players could have profiles across machines using NFC and track game progress and achievements (LOTR: You've achieved "There And Back Again"). Could add a whole new level of interest if there was a way to do apples to apples score and achievement comparisons.

    12
    #30 4 years ago

    I think if games came out fully coded that would revolutionize pnball..

    #31 4 years ago

    Cameras over the play field that display on jjp style LCD back glass!

    #32 4 years ago

    Role playing pinball game that persists between games and has long term goals and/or modes that are accessed or unlocked over months or years of play. For home use.

    #33 4 years ago
    Quoted from jackd104:

    For home use.

    Or on locations with SD card?

    #34 4 years ago

    I will ive away my favorite idea..but if someone does it I want a free machine...
    Privacy glass. you could literally hide a lower playfield under a playfield or..have a whiteout..where after x amount of time the entire playfield glass whites out and you have to play blind. re: fog or mist

    http://polyvisionglass.com/products/switchable-electric-privacy-glass.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgoKqBRDt_IfLr8y1iMUBEiQA8Ua7XQpG0iRx0_f4FS37e0wwoVOr2AbGhINSiNIE_a0A-08aAr__8P8HAQ

    #35 4 years ago
    Quoted from TheCnyPinGuy:

    that is used quite a but on slot machines
    I see that at work daily, they show animations during bonus rounds, and during play show you betX
    (1X,2X,3X,4X,5X) MAX BET
    technology is definitely there, now to implement that in a pin

    BadBrick saw these OLED buttons on slots at a recent trip to a casino. He has convinced me to make targets in Spaceballs that use OLED screens for different effects.

    Just one of the fun things I've been working on. Also, Spaceballs has a minimal service menu at the game, but a much more full featured one as a website that you can access with your phone when you are near the machine. That's barely built out right now though, so nothing great to show on it yet.

    #36 4 years ago

    I really like the idea of cameras and online, real-time head to head play. I enjoy pinball most when I get to play with someone who is aware that pinball has robust rules and objectives. The competition really makes pinball enjoyable for me. Because my fiance and close friends don't really "get" pinball, it would be awesome to link up online with someone random and battle it out. The machine could automatically go into a "tournament" mode and display the machine's pitch for a more even match.

    #37 4 years ago

    I had an idea for a more RPG type of pinball play, where each player chooses a character to play as, and those characters have different strengths and weaknesses.

    For the game in question, there is also a "territory" aspect where each character has territory and can attack their neighbours to take over their territory, like how RISK works. So perhaps one character has weaker stats than the others so their progress might be harder, but has better territory at the start of the game. Or one character might get more points for drop targets while another gets more for ramps or combos. That way skilled players can use actual strategy to play instead of pure skill shots.

    I can't imagine anyone in the wild would be able to figure it out but for home players it would definitely work. Like how BoP 2.0 has a "standard and 2.0" menu at game start, the game could default to "standard" pinball but allow a user to select "advanced" or "Player Vs Player" mode by holding the start button in at game start.

    #38 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jgaltr56:

    Heighway is on the right track by using inductive sensors to detect balls. It's amazing to me that new pinball machines still use mechanical switches.
    Who is going to release the first wifi enabled pin? I would think it would be an easy add on for a Spike system.

    you ever owned a machine with eddy sensors? ToM? CV? etc? they are a pain and take up a lot of space under the playfield for the detector board and then the amplifier board

    #39 4 years ago
    Quoted from Meatneck:

    I will ive away my favorite idea..but if someone does it I want a free machine...
    Privacy glass. you could literally hide a lower playfield under a playfield or..have a whiteout..where after x amount of time the entire playfield glass whites out and you have to play blind. re: fog or mist
    http://polyvisionglass.com/products/switchable-electric-privacy-glass.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwgoKqBRDt_IfLr8y1iMUBEiQA8Ua7XQpG0iRx0_f4FS37e0wwoVOr2AbGhINSiNIE_a0A-08aAr__8P8HAQ

    If we're going to put unnecessarily expensive glass on machines, lets make it anti-glass glass.

    #40 4 years ago
    Quoted from GibGirl:

    How about adding a mechanism that would self-level and adjust the playfield? First, it prevents having to level the playfield every time it's moved - so there's the convenience. But more importantly, game modes could adjust the incline during play. Perhaps a skiing-themed game where different run difficulties increase the incline more and more to make shots harder - the double-diamond run multiball makes the incline very steep and the shots have to be perfect to hit them!
    Or another - add WiFi and NFC to machines, and release a free app. You can walk up to any machine, use your app as your first ball sits in the shooter lane, and now the game knows your profile. Your score is uploaded to your phone afterwards, perhaps available on a web site, and initials are auto-entered. Now you can track your scores over time on a specific machine and compare to friends. Operators can keep track remotely of machine use and earnings, and get instant alerts if there's a problem.

    Seriously thought about spying on the proc's memory bus to do some of this, as well as asserting busreq (on some MPUs) to do stuff like entering initials. And since you've already probably got an 802.11 module in there, why not get your bookkeeping through the 'net, and emails for failures. Cross-location highscores anyone?

    #41 4 years ago

    ... sadly, I have no SS pins to experiment on ... maybe in a year or so when I've got the cash... Would probably target WPC first. Most of the top pins are there, then SAM next, but IDK if the ARM has a such thing as busreq, so that may be read only.

    Once I have some time to seriously think about it, I may try to make it work in MAME with virtualized hardware.

    #42 4 years ago

    Check this out. Imagine a pinball experience enhanced with the new HoloLens:

    http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/29/8511289/microsoft-build-2015-hololens-robot-singularity#ooid=x2N29zdDo0vpF-Gf-ZAZm5vpDSGEt3h6

    Service menu? Nah son, just put on your hololens for the service display.

    Or imagine being able to use the technology to fix a pin. Everything you need to touch or do is highlighted in the display. Need to change a flipper? The hololens will guide you through each step.

    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    I had an idea for a more RPG type of pinball play...

    I had thought of a similar concept, but limited to the scope of a single game. On the plunge of each normal ball (no XB), or on balls 1,3,5 of a 5-ball game, you choose a class on the DMD with the flippers. Each class grants specific bonuses (kinda like the Doctors in DW). The skill shot into a 5-lane rollover lights one lane blue, and the two ajacent red. Shooting the blue triggers a post-motrem bonus hold, and grants the previous classes bonus for the rest of the game, shooting the red grants the bonus of last ball as points (no multiplier). Switch bonus is not collected at the end of each ball, but other bonuses are. If you opt for the autoplunge (triggered by some reed switches and magnets on the plunger rod), you can make a super skill shot for the points of red, and the rules of blue, but no bonus hold, and some amount of normal 'bonus' points that are part of the end-of-ball count.

    #44 4 years ago

    Also a simple one: A three ball champ score. (counts score from the first three balls, including XB's)

    #45 4 years ago

    You know what's never been done before in pinball? Smells!

    It would be killer (and funny) to have various fragrances spritzed out on your face while playing. Let's say you're playing a pizza themed game, and you can smell pepperoni, sausage and fresh tomato sauce as you hit the corresponding targets!

    There can also be other smells that relate to various themes, such as flowers, farts, chicken soup and fresh baked bread. The possibilities are endless! The question is...who will implement this scent-sational new benchmark into pinball?

    #46 4 years ago

    I have bunches of ideas, and enjoy this thread, and the brilliant ideas I am reading here.

    The one Idea I would love to see, is for say, Stern, to have a suggestions page like this thread on their site, and actually use it for new, fresh, and exciting ideas.

    It pains me to see such brilliance die in a thread, when even if just a few ideas would get considered.

    As we are hard core fans, I think the pool of minds here, could make a huge difference with a few features adopted.

    What have they to lose?

    #47 4 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    I have bunches of ideas, and enjoy this thread, and the brilliant ideas I am reading here.
    The one Idea I would love to see, is for say, Stern, to have a suggestions page like this thread on their site, and actually use it for new, fresh, and exciting ideas.
    It pains me to see such brilliance die in a thread, when even if just a few ideas would get considered.
    As we are hard core fans, I think the pool of minds here, could make a huge difference with a few features adopted.
    What have they to lose?

    Stern has been churning out pretty standard games (not bad certainly, but not revolutionary). Barring a couple cool mechanical toys on the LEs, I don't think they're looking to set the world on fire like some of the smaller guys. Get Ben Heck to implement electronics nonsense like this.

    #48 4 years ago

    Scrap all metal balls. They beat the hell out of everything. Maybe, something like a metal core with a rubber or plastics exterior.

    Mini gps chips in balls. The balls would always be tracked and the pinball would never get confused over a stuck ball. Probably, could dump switches and implement cool tracking features similar to Rudy's eyes in Funhouse.

    Let people change the rules and put in a safety board to prevent people from doing anything too dumb like burn up a coil.

    Reduce the cost to make a pinball machine to something that makes it economical to be on location

    Hire a bunch of japanese developers who do pachinko machines and have them add the same bells and whistles to pinball.

    LCD or projected playfields.

    #49 4 years ago
    Quoted from Det_Deckard:

    Scrap all metal balls. They beat the hell out of everything. Maybe, something like a metal core with a rubber or plastics exterior.

    I like it. To add to your idea, how about encapsulating an LED inside, so it looks like a glowing orb rolling around? In the meantime, I'd like to see fully clear, shatter-proof colored acrylic balls. They'd obviously only be used for games with non-magnetic features, but would still be cool nonetheless. Something like this:

    image.jpg

    #50 4 years ago

    Well, steel balls have specific properties, one of which is weight. They already fly around, I can't see an acrylic ball being the same or slower!

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