(Topic ID: 87564)

Revolutionary New Fish Tales cabinet at MGC


By Bryan_Kelly

5 years ago



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  • 199 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by NoahFentz
  • Topic is favorited by 11 Pinsiders

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There are 199 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
#151 5 years ago
Quoted from nutshell79:

Does anyone have an idea what the difference in shipping costs are for a full cabinet vs. flat pack?

Flat pack ~$100.

Assembled ~$350

The company that makes the pinball cabs for me claims that was the best rates they could find.

#152 5 years ago
Quoted from Jvspin:

The cabinet looks fantastic!
Judging from the decal that was under the hinge and side rail, the art looks a lot more red/orange though.

And that is by far the biggest problem with making these cabinets...getting the colors correct. The art files we used came from Rick at PPS. The problem is, the colors his printer prints are not going to be the same colors my printer's printer prints. In order to get them correct, my printer would literally have to spend hours and hours adjusting the color levels on his machine to get them right. In this case, he spent about four and I told him that has to be close enough. The amount of money I'd have to pay him to correct them is just not worth it.

Having said that, if you had this cabinet sitting in your gameroom, you'd think it looked incredible and wouldn't give the colors a second thought.

#153 5 years ago

What's the timeline on the BOP cabs? I need to know when I have to start hassling Merfeld about my NOS playfield...

#154 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Having said that, if you had this cabinet sitting in your gameroom, you'd think it looked incredible and wouldn't give the colors a second thought.

Agreed, the colors look bold and vibrant.

Reminds me of comparing speakers. I'm no audiophile so if I'm doing a direct A/B comparison I can tell that they sound different, harder to say which is better.

If I only heard one, I would probably just think it sounded great.

#155 5 years ago

I would gladly pay you today for an MB cabinet on Tuesday

-Wimpy

#156 5 years ago

My TZ has an externally bolt-less head. The previous owner hated having Rod Serling with a bolt through him so he countersunk all the head bolts and redecaled the head.

2 weeks later
#157 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

And that is by far the biggest problem with making these cabinets...getting the colors correct. The art files we used came from Rick at PPS. The problem is, the colors his printer prints are not going to be the same colors my printer's printer prints. In order to get them correct, my printer would literally have to spend hours and hours adjusting the color levels on his machine to get them right. In this case, he spent about four and I told him that has to be close enough. The amount of money I'd have to pay him to correct them is just not worth it.
Having said that, if you had this cabinet sitting in your gameroom, you'd think it looked incredible and wouldn't give the colors a second thought.

WTF?! There is this old fangled technology called color matching. His printer should have a color profile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management

While I agree the cabinet looks good... I find it highly suspect that your printer isn't more adept at color matching.

I would give the color a second thought. I'm pretty retentive. If I'm going to buy a new cab; it needs to be color matched to original files.

#158 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

There is this old fangled technology called color matching.

I work with the most advanced printing presses in the world and color matching can still be a task. Ink quality, quality of the medium being printed on, and other factors make it more challenging than most would believe.

#159 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballKen:

I work with the most advanced printing presses in the world and color matching can still be a task. Ink quality, quality of the medium being printed on, and other factors make it more challenging than most would believe.

Tell me about it, I was an ink formulator at a silk screen plant, I mixed ink for the big TA Firebird hood decals and many other things. I would follow the formulas exactly and not match the color samples and that was using the primary inks right from 3M. Then I switched to off set, roto and finally web off sets as a press crew member. In the 30+ years I was a printer I helped print 10's of billions of consumer boxes, Cheerios, Trix, Puffs, Bisquick, Pillsbury cake, 3M VHS boxes and I even helped print the Wheaties box when the MN Twins won the World Series to name just a few. Color matching on the off set, roto and webs was not a problem because that was always determined by the dots on the cylinders for the roto and the burn on the plates for the off set and web presses. Silk screen was ALWAYS a problem. The digital printers are a whole different story.

#160 5 years ago

Fair Enough...
I'm retentive... so I've calibrated my monitors, scanners, and laser printer as best I could.
I do agree tho... outsourcing to the printers is a task.
I do think if I were selling a premium product like this... I'd have requested he make a better effort.

#161 5 years ago

If it were only that simple.

I highly doubt this project is going any further, so you won't have to worry.

Quoted from Zitt:

WTF?! There is this old fangled technology called color matching. His printer should have a color profile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_management
While I agree the cabinet looks good... I find it highly suspect that your printer isn't more adept at color matching.
I would give the color a second thought. I'm pretty retentive. If I'm going to buy a new cab; it needs to be color matched to original files.

#162 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

If it were only that simple.
I highly doubt this project is going any further, so you won't have to worry.

sorry to hear that.

#163 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

If it were only that simple.
I highly doubt this project is going any further, so you won't have to worry.

Bummer! !

#164 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

If it were only that simple.
I highly doubt this project is going any further, so you won't have to worry.

That's disappointing as this would have been a great alternative to decaled cabinets.

#165 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

If it were only that simple.
I highly doubt this project is going any further, so you won't have to worry.

What?!?! I was so looking forward to a brand-new silk-screened BOP cab... can I ask - was it license issues, production problems, or ??? that is derailing this project?

#166 5 years ago

Man, that's a downer.

#167 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I highly doubt this project is going any further, so you won't have to worry.

Sorry to hear that. People who saw it at MGC were impressed.

LTG : )

#168 5 years ago

Add me to the list of people sorry to hear this might not go forward. If the issue is shipping, maybe they could be available only at shows.

#169 5 years ago

Disappointing news for sure, there should always be room for craftsmanship to flourish.

That FT is going to take on legendary status now though.

#170 5 years ago

Definitely a bummer. This is Fish Tales Week, I think you should push on.

Fact: Fish Tales Week is exponentially better than Shark Week.

#171 5 years ago

Without getting into details, there are a number of complexities involved and for the amount of money to be made, I'm not sure I want to deal with them all. I do, after all, have a real job and this all started because my cabinet guy is tired of making kitchen cabinets and he thought it would be fun.

I will say, Zitt's comments are coming from someone I would be worried about dealing with. These cabinets would not be original and would not be sold as such. As for the colors, my guy could get them right but it would involve way too many man hours and would add too much to the cost of the cabinets. If this does move forward, I would show what the cabinet looks like and tell you the colors may not be perfect. If you like it, buy it. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but don't come bitching at me because it's not the same as the originals.

So for now, my buddy has a FT with the nicest looking cabinet around. In fact, he has no where to put it so it's still in my basement. I think I'll go play a game.

#172 5 years ago

Bryan,

I am pretty sure the VAST majority of potential buyers are a bit more realistic and can deal with almost perfect, rather than perfect. Most also understand that minor color differences are still leaps and bounds better that decals and the associated issues.

I will take an almost perfect RS whenever you are ready to try out a widebody.

Given that there are some people that would bitch no matter what, I would agreed with a F$!k off policy, or WYSIWYG.

#173 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I am pretty sure the VAST majority of potential buyers are a bit more realistic and can deal with almost perfect, rather than perfect.

And you're talking about pinball collectors?

#174 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinballfantexas:

And you're talking about pinball collectors?

yup, anal but also logical...

choice 1 : your crappy faded cab with dings
choice 2 : you redecal with tons of work and it still wont be perfect plus the decals are easy to scratch and wrinkle (also the decals I have seen are not a perfect color match)
choice 3; a ready to go cab with printing directly applied, is more durable, and has a perfect finish with no worry of wrinkling (colors looked better to me that 99% of the FTs I have seen and = to the accuracy of all decals I have seen)

I think the vast majority will take choice 3

#175 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

yup, anal but also logical...
choice 1 : your crappy faded cab with dings
choice 2 : you redecal with tons of work and it still wont be perfect plus the decals are easy to scratch and wrinkle (also the decals I have seen are not a perfect color match)
choice 3; a ready to go cab with printing directly applied, is more durable, and has a perfect finish with no worry of wrinkling (colors looked better to me that 99% of the FTs I have seen and = to the accuracy of all decals I have seen)
I think the vast majority will take choice 3

Exactly. I'd like a TZ please, then a whitewater.

#176 5 years ago

BK I am really surprised to see you feel so relaxed about this cabinet color issue, being one of the high end restorers. Zitt and jvspin have good eyes along with myself and many other anal pinheads. I've owned a HUO FT with NO fade and it should be more red/orange as mentioned earlier. Red is very difficult to capture in a picture, but when you have that original cab next to it in the same pic, that under rail/hinge area gives it away.

If fixing the issue is too expensive then yes I would ditch this project as well. The idea sounded awesome and I feel it would sell well as I hate decals. I don't care if God put them on, they are still friggin stickers. If the colors are that far off though, that pretty much kills it.

#177 5 years ago

If the colors look good by themselves, who gives a fig if they don't match 100%?

#178 5 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

If the colors look good by themselves, who gives a fig if they don't match 100%?

I agree and I am uber anal. If you are going to have a non-original cab then I am more concerned with finish than any minor (and I mean minor!) color discrepancies.

#179 5 years ago

Almost perfect "pressed" MB cabinet...yes please.

#180 5 years ago

I know it gets mentioned from time to time, but depending on the production date of a machine there have always been variables in regards to cabinet color and application. You had specific differences such as with Indianapolis 500, there were the solid-red cabinets with darker playfields and the gradation color cabinets with lighter playfields. You had Road Show with silkscreened heads and those with decals. And others just depending on how the colors looked during application prior to machines being built, if there was an white layer beneath, if it was a recycled cabinet from another game, etc. There has always been some variance so that is something I think should be taken into consideration. I think Bryan's cabinet looked great and would love to see it as an available option.

Brad

#181 5 years ago

Some people may worry about the colors being exact, but those are the same collectors who want the bolts through the side of the cabinet like original, too.

I can appreciate not wanting to get involved in a project where you're not gonna make any money and you're just gonna get kicked in the nuts in the end by some picky customers.

There's nothing wrong with picky customers... don't get me wrong...

#182 5 years ago

I hear what you're saying but I will tell you, the color issue is NOT an issue to a number of guys I've done restores for. I've asked them. I would also have no problem restoring a FT for myself and using one of these cabinets.

There's so much more to getting these made. I need cabinet cad files. I need art files but I then need to color correct them. I need a website so I can sell these. I need to deal with shipping them and doing it in such a way they don't get damaged. I also need to deal with the guy who accidently scratches a side and claims it came that way. And yes, there is the licensing.

For now, at least, there's way too many "I needs."

Quoted from turbo20lbs:

BK I am really surprised to see you feel so relaxed about this cabinet color issue, being one of the high end restorers. Zitt and jvspin have good eyes along with myself and many other anal pinheads. I've owned a HUO FT with NO fade and it should be more red/orange as mentioned earlier. Red is very difficult to capture in a picture, but when you have that original cab next to it in the same pic, that under rail/hinge area gives it away.
If fixing the issue is too expensive then yes I would ditch this project as well. The idea sounded awesome and I feel it would sell well as I hate decals. I don't care if God put them on, they are still friggin stickers. If the colors are that far off though, that pretty much kills it.

#183 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I need cabinet cad files... I need art files... I need to color correct them... I need a website... I need to deal with shipping... I need to deal with the guy...

You sound like you NEED a beer!

#184 5 years ago

Already had one, Tony. It's Friday and I'm doing f'ing yard work!!

Quoted from tonymiddendorf:

You sound like you NEED a beer!

#185 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Already had one, Tony. It's Friday and I'm doing f'ing yard work!!

Well, cheers. Hope you enjoy a few more spotted cows over the holiday weekend.

#186 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

I never thought about a flat pack. I'm not sure I want to have to pack and ship side panels with cleared artwork but it may be an option. As for "locking" corner joints, 90% of all cabinets I restore need those "locking" corner joints reglued. My cabinets are glued and also screwed, so I doubt you'll have an issue.

Glued ,screwed,and tattooed!

#187 5 years ago

Sunny and 75 here in MN and the start of a loooooooooooooooooooong weekend. Drinking beer is a lot more fun than dealing with this shit!!

#188 5 years ago

I'd use a cab made from BK's shit

Moar beer!!!

#189 5 years ago

Guess what? All my repro plastics I've ever used aren't the right color either. I'd use this stunning FT cab in a heartbeat! Beats the hell out of my puckered-leg-area faded-left-side current cab all day long. I'd be very proud to sport this quality work.

#190 5 years ago

I would rather have this cabinet than a decalled one. It just seems more durable.

I wouldn't care about any slightly different color variances as the chance i will have several FTs in my basement is somewhat remote.

-c

#191 5 years ago
Quoted from TunaSled:

Guess what? All my repro plastics I've ever used aren't the right color either. I'd use this stunning FT cab in a heartbeat! Beats the hell out of my puckered-leg-area faded-left-side current cab all day long. I'd be very proud to sport this quality work.

I would too! Even though I noted the difference above, every Fishtales I've seen has fade to some degree, so the "original" color wouldn't matter much to me. The cabinet looks great and slight color variations won't change that.

#192 5 years ago

Your cabinet looks fantastic Bryan!

Hoping you can still pull this project off for this and future titles.

#193 5 years ago

Bryan, if not doing the cab with art, then what about flat packs of blank cabs since you have the dimensions already figured out? Doug huse will not return emails and i could use a new TAF cab.

#194 5 years ago

:Waves white flag:
My comments should only have been taken seriously if he wanted to market it as THE replacement for high end restores.

Bryan,
I'd like to personally apologize if you took my comments as critical of the work. I think the cabs are AWESOME... and I didn't realize at the time this was a Screened cabinet. I had assumed these were decals so... assumed the vynl printer was just lazy,

You have to realize that I'm an odd duck. All you have to do is look at my Star Trek: Mirror Universe project to realize that I'm highly detailed oriented and take my restores seriously.

Having said that... I would seriously consider buying one of your pieces of art - even with the slight color differences.
So PLEASE don't use me as an excuse for not offering them to "understanding people".

#195 5 years ago

I'd stick with restorations. I can't imagine the margins would be worth your time.

#196 5 years ago

If the colors aren't quite right who really gives a shi*? I think CPR has demonstrated there is quite a bit of variability with the original stuff. Just make a quality product at a reasonable price and people will buy it. This is the internet, There will always be someone willing to tell you your product is shi*t even when it isn't.

#197 5 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

some real good words

Five stars my man. Coolest post all day

#198 5 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

There's so much more to getting these made. I need cabinet cad files. I need art files but I then need to color correct them. I need a website so I can sell these. I need to deal with shipping them and doing it in such a way they don't get damaged. I also need to deal with the guy who accidently scratches a side and claims it came that way.

I hear ya.

My cab guy sells me flat pack pin cabs for $200 cash.

I've asked him before and he in no way wants to get into the business of selling pinball cabs over the internet, for all the reasons you just described.

If it was both easy and profitable, somebody would already be doing it....

#199 5 years ago

Easy? Definitely not. Profitable? Not exorbitantly, no, but someone already is doing it.

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