(Topic ID: 266398)

Reviving a 1963 United Sabre Ball Bowler

By PinDeLaPin

4 years ago


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  • 30 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by PinDeLaPin
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    #43 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Yeah worst part about it is every single one of them has burns on them

    I'd try a white fine tip Sharpie on one of the numbers.
    Up close you maybe would see a difference in shade, but when the
    Score Reel is in position behind the backglass, I wouldn't be surprised
    if it wouldn't be noticeable. Works good with black..

    #54 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    I couldn't find the coil for the score reels on marco or pinball life or even doing a google search. 3-26-1200 coil.

    You're looking for Score Reel coils? I can send you 3 or 4 for a buck a piece plus shipping..

    #67 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    when i reseated the armature into the motor it just didn't seem right.

    Pindel, From that angle, I couldn't see the armature's tail, but that tail should spring out maybe about
    5/16" When sticking out, the cam should turn freely. When the armature is inward (which it does when
    energized) is when the armature should turn the cam (gear motor), and also the cam would have
    quite a bit of resistance when turning by hand from the armature being in.
    If the cam turns hard while the motor is in a resting position, then the armature must not be springing
    out. The reason would be that the small spring at the other end inside of of the gear box must be out of
    position..

    #106 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    One of the contacts from the wiowr arm is gone I guess it just broke off at some point. Now what?

    Back in the 90s, I found that quite a few times on Ball Bowler motor wipers. That's why I always
    heavily recommend to lube the steppers and especially the Score Motor's wiper boards.
    Usually I was able to file off the worn rivet, and replace with a new. But when worn that bad,
    I would solder on another blade underneath the worn one. Last month, I had a wiper from a
    1956 Shuffle and all 4 blades' rivets were heavily worn, so I experimented and cut off maybe an
    1/2" off each end, and epoxied blades with good rivets underneath the originals. I didn't clamp it,
    just formed it and let it sit. I did one at a time so I wouldn't disturb it while working on another.
    After all were epoxied, I spot soldered each one so that it would have true electrical connection.
    Soldering the blades on worked, but the epoxy seems to look a little cleaner. The wiper works fine..

    #112 3 years ago

    Bill, as you requested, here's a couple pics of the wiper I last epoxied.
    Note: When the roll of solder came in it turned out to be like 1/32" diameter
    if that. Terrible stuff for what I do with it, so the solder joints don't look to
    clean, but it's the epoxy that gave it its strength. The spot solder is only so
    the added blade had true conductivity.
    Since the camera was out, I took a couple pics of the bowler (that a long
    time Buddy that owns a 7 bay garage) will be receiving in trade for work to be
    done on my Cuda and 1946 Plymouth. The Shuffle is a 1954 United Eastern
    League Team Bowler that I had stached for maybe 25 years. I already stained the
    hardwood on the head so once on, I won't have to take it off until it goes to its next
    destination.
    Also note the bowler I did before this one's nice original coin door that someone jig
    sawed the lock out of..

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    #124 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:Tim i'm super glad I ended up going with the numbers I think it was lacking without them.

    Yes Bill. Applying numbers is like night and day. Without them they're too bland.
    Back in the 90s, I put out ball bowlers, and still have 6 out and put the numbers
    on them all. Makes a big difference on their appearance..

    #126 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Do you have to wax the bowling lane or just let it go since it is formica?

    On Shuffles, now and then I sweep and vacuum off the wax (powder), then Lemon Pledge it
    before putting on fresh wax..
    On the Ball Bowlers, now and then I'll use a cleaner and scotch brite to erase the ball marks which eventually
    will accure, but never wax. Actually, on the MBA (and 20 footers I had out), some like to hook the ball which
    wax would make difficult. So since the ball rolls and not slides like the pucks, no wax is needed, and probably
    all around best not to have it waxed..

    #128 3 years ago

    No problem Bill..
    A couple missing links should be arriving before long..

    #133 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    I want to try this route 1st so I gain knowledge and experience in making this type of repair.

    Repairing the wiper yourself will 100% work as long as the new blade is epoxied in the proper
    position so that its rivet rides directly on its row of wiper board's rivets.
    I think it slipped my mind to answer your question. I've used Gorrila Glue epoxy but any 2
    part epoxy will be strong and I use it for multiple purposes. At Walmart, Locktite epoxy is like
    $4.00. I've made complete wipers by placing the blades and insulators in their proper positions,
    but epoxying that one blade will be much easier.
    I just slightly bend the new blade until its curvature matches the wiper's blade curvature that it's going
    to be adhered to. Then I epoxy it on the underside of the original blade. You may have to snip
    the tip of the end of the original blade so it doesn't interfer with the top of the new blade's rivet..
    I posted this already after you asked, but here's the pic once again of the wiper I repaired earlier
    this month. All five blades on this wiper were badly worn..
    btw: I mix the two part epoxy on a paper with a tooth pick, then after mixed, I spread it on the original
    blade with a tooth pick then carefully place the new blade in position, and let it sit. After it's set (I think
    12 hours, but I let it sit 24 hours), I spot solder the end of the blade to insure the new and original blades
    have good conductivity..
    IMG_0155 (resized).JPGIMG_0155 (resized).JPGIMG_0156 (resized).JPGIMG_0156 (resized).JPG

    #135 3 years ago

    Well Bill, the way that one is worn on yours, now makes me wonder what the others look like,
    but I sent you two blades so you'd have an extra thinking only the one needed to be replace..
    I replace all on that one only because all were very worn. I wouldn't mind seeing a pic of the
    other side of your wiper to be able to see the rivets. I don't expect they all need replacing, but
    I can send you more blades if needed..

    #138 3 years ago

    The others has wear, but as long as the wiper board is going to be lubed,
    there's much life on them. You'll be playing that machine only a fraction
    of what it already has been played, and you'll be playing with it lubed.
    I'd only replace the one, and then check it after a year, and bet you'll find
    no further noticeable wear..

    #140 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Will just keep on working on this lane then until that finger shows up.

    You didn't get that envelope yet? I put it in the Post Office's mail box (I believe) last Sunday.
    It had two blades and a couple coil plates and springs for the Bank Relay coil.
    Mail must be running slow this week. Did you check your mail box yet today. I just received
    someones envelope today that was mailed out early Monday..

    1 week later
    #171 3 years ago

    It seems the 2nd Shot Relay energizes, or is already in the energized position,
    or a 2nd Shot Relay switch is closed when suppose to be open after rolling the first ball.
    And then the Relay Bank isn't energizing which like Chris said, that switch runs off the
    Score Motor's cam and closes then reopens just before the Score Motor comes back to home.
    It could possibly also be a dirty closed switch in the Score Control Relay for why the Relay
    Bank's coil is not energizing..

    #174 3 years ago

    Also, if you manually step up the other players' Strike/Spare Step Up units,
    and then start a game, do they also not reset?

    #195 3 years ago

    It appears the #6 Pin Relay in the Reset Bank is energizing, although the #6 pin's not going up.
    I'd check the #6 pin set of switches on the pin deck to make sure that they're making good
    contact with each other when the pin is down..
    Also, you'll want to check the closed switches in the #6 Pin Relay in the Relay Bank when that
    relay is in the energized position that they have good contact (and cleaning)..

    #199 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    . I now have to figure out this pin reset error I got it three times during the course of one game. I'm not sure if it is that pin reset motor switch that is broken it seems like theres something else causing that.

    You're referring to when the 2 or 3 pins go back up, right?
    It's not the switch on the pin reset motor.. I'm sure the rollovers are
    free and not sticking. It has to be those Pin Relays in the Relay
    Bank isn't latching. Perhaps the plate(s) are magnetized. The next
    time it happens, go in back of the machine and see which Pin Relays
    (in the Relay Bank) are in the tripped (energized position..
    btw: That pin reset switch is on the way..

    #203 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    The 4,5,6,8 and 9 pins retracted as seen on the lower backglass and then on the pin bank relay and the bank relay those were all tripped.

    It's very unlikely all those relay plates would be magnetized.
    Perhaps the Relay Bank isn't resetting very strongly. I'm sure you
    cleaned the switch off of the score motor's cam that resets the
    Bank Relay. You don't really have to take it apart, but I would
    clean the Bank Relay's coil plunger by spraying Lemon Pledge
    on a paper towel..
    Also, this only happened to me once where the slide bar that resets
    the pin relays was sticky and actually was giving the coil plates that
    it comes in contact with a little twist, and every so often it caused a
    couple of pin relays not to latch and reset. What I did was spray Carb
    Cleaner (or Paint Thinner, ect.) on a paper towel, and cleaned the slide
    bar and plates that the bar comes in contact with, and then lubed the
    slide bar..
    Perhaps it's contacts too close together in some other pin relays and
    at times they make contact from the vibration when resetting, but once
    again, I wouldn't think that the case with that many relays not latching..

    #204 3 years ago
    Quoted from chipleader:

    I used to put a piece of electrical tape on the back of the plate for a quick fix.

    That's what I did also, but with bowlers in taverns, restaurants, ect., eventually the tape would wear
    and then the stickim from the tape held in the plate, so I used a piece of paper, but in time, the paper
    would thin out, so I finally went with a piece of a cheap white paper plate, and that was long lasting.
    For the first time ever, I recently had a magnetized plunger in a coil and although I could get to the
    plunger itself, it would have been a pain to get out, so I filed as much of the circumference of the plunger
    that I could, and that did the trick..

    #209 3 years ago

    You probably were in the 10th Frame and the Frame Reel skipped a beat.
    There should be an end of stroke switch on the frame unit that when stepped
    up, the switch makes and steps up the frame reel. You might want to check
    that switch out..
    If it's because the score more is running slow and the pins are resetting before
    the Relay Bank is reset, the problem usually goes away as the game is played and
    the score motor warms up, but are you certain the Bank Relay is resetting before
    the pins are in the down position? If the Bank resets just in time, the pins will lock
    and stay down, but the coil plates will make a clicking chatter..

    #211 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Is it possible that switch is closing or opening prematurely?

    No, I can't see how that switch's timing is off.
    It's not uncommon for a score motor to run slow.
    Most of the time cleaning and then a couple drops of light weight
    oil on the armature's tail will do the trick, but at times I had
    to take the motor apart and clean and re-lube.
    Yours shouldn't be running slow, I just thought it would be nice
    if a slow running score motor could 100% be eliminated to being
    the problem.. There are switches in pin relays that activate other pin
    relays, and if there adjusted too close together, they can make when the
    Bank resets from vibration and energize they're coils, but you have
    many pins going up to think that would be the problem.
    If the rollover switches are adjusted correctly and the rollovers
    aren't sticking, I'm not sure how the pin relays are re-energizing..

    #214 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    I watched the bank reset just before the score motor stopped which I assume is is what is supposed to happen.

    Yes, that's what suppose to happen, and although probably not the problem, but the biggest question
    is if the Bank resets just before the pins come downward and latch.

    #218 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Fingers crossed that stupid $3 switch was the problem all along I will update later on this evening when I have about 15 more games on it.

    It was a free fix. I didn't charge anything for that switch.
    I hope the machine continues to play well, but I don't
    understand how that switch alone fixed the problem.

    1 month later
    #282 3 years ago
    Quoted from orangestorm87:

    I am thinking of making my own big ball bowler. And how the lane pieces connect is of interest.

    I like to say, when putting the formica on the lane, you'll want to first contact cement
    1/8" thick cork to the plywood, then contact the formica to the cork. If contacting the
    formica directly to the plywood, the rolling of the ball will create an unnatural and an
    unpleasant sound..

    #293 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Can anybody please post pics of their locking assembly so I can figure this out?

    On the backside of the lock, instead of a flat stock, a gear is bolted on.
    When the key is turned, the gear rides in the grooves of both of the rods,
    and travels one upward, while the other travels downward.
    I'll see about getting a pic tomorrow.

    #296 3 years ago

    United used this type of coin mech and box in the late 50s and early 60s on their shuffles.
    I have a couple machines missing theirs, so I need to hang onto the parts I have, but I'm
    sure Chris has extras around. If you'd like it totally complete, the backside has a covering
    plate.

    IMG_0296 (resized).JPGIMG_0296 (resized).JPGIMG_0297 (resized).JPGIMG_0297 (resized).JPG
    #306 3 years ago

    I noticed in your video that it seemed the game reset before the Bank Coil energized, so you wouldn't think
    the Start Relay had a worn plate and was caused from vibration, but maybe it wouldn't hurt to inspect the
    Start Relay to make sure that the plate has a good grip on the contact's plate.
    You can also check the switches in the Coin Relay to make sure the opened ones aren't too close together..

    2 months later
    #332 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Yes adding on 6ft which will bring the total length up to 19.5ft.

    4 ft. makes a big difference. Once all set back up, that 6 ft. will seem like 12 ft. No kidding.
    It'll be like night and day and make for a much nicer and challenging game..

    #337 3 years ago

    Looking good Bill. This might sound strange, but if needed, bondo not only is best
    for filling (which we all know), but I found it to take stain the best also. Not perfect,
    but not bad..

    #344 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    No this tool is an automotive "Panel" removal

    I have used them for pulling car door panels, but they're actually known as tack pullers.
    I had one for years and one of the fork tips broke, and with no luck at Lowes or Home
    Depot, I googled Tack Puller and ordered a set of 3 for like 9 bucks. Handy little tool..

    #347 3 years ago
    Quoted from bssbllr:

    Advanced auto carries them. Called door panel removal tool.

    After taking a 2nd and closer look at Bill's tool, it is a panel puller.
    The V doesn't come to a tight point..

    2 weeks later
    #384 3 years ago

    Bill, that 3 prong female plug plugs directly into the rear of the coin tray that
    holds the coin mech that slides in and out..

    #392 3 years ago

    Good job Bill! I'm sue that bowler's like night and day for the good.

    8 months later
    #409 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Here is the proof, in less than 1 year there have been 1291 plays on the bowler so i'd say that speaks for itself.

    I once had a 20 ft. Chicago Coin Ball Bowler out in a Tavern, and in one month it
    took in $1,050.00 at 50 cents per play. One of those weeks in that month it took
    in $330.00 It seems almost physically impossible, but it happened..

    #412 2 years ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I should set my bowler to coin op and have half my buy in paid for!

    And, "Bowling Shoes Required"

    #413 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Tim that is a crazy amount of money.

    Yea Bill. It was by far the best week and month I've seen..
    That same bowler is now in the local VFW, and unless there's a
    gathering with Kids, it never gets played. The Adults seem to mostly
    just sit at the bar and drink. (A buck a draft. Can't really blame them).
    The Aladens Castle gets played, but not that Bowler.
    I have a 14' small ball in a Restaurant, and that gets played regularly
    by Kids and Adults..

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