(Topic ID: 266398)

Reviving a 1963 United Sabre Ball Bowler


By PinDeLaPin

51 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 264 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 hours ago by RonSS
  • Topic is favorited by 15 Pinsiders

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    There are 264 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 6.
    #201 21 days ago

    Okay so I came back downstairs and right away it started messing up again. 1st frame completed it reset the pins for frame 2 to begin and then bonk a pin error hit. The 4,5,6,8 and 9 pins retracted as seen on the lower backglass and then on the pin bank relay and the bank relay those were all tripped. The lit pins on the backglass are the pins that are still standing.

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    #202 21 days ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    Perhaps the plate(s) are magnetized. The next
    time it happens, go in back of the machine and see which Pin Relays
    (in the Relay Bank) are in the tripped (energized position..

    That was always a problem when I used to have bowling machines.
    The little metal plate on the relay would get magnetized and trip the pins.
    I used to put a piece of electrical tape on the back of the plate for a quick fix.

    #203 21 days ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    The 4,5,6,8 and 9 pins retracted as seen on the lower backglass and then on the pin bank relay and the bank relay those were all tripped.

    It's very unlikely all those relay plates would be magnetized.
    Perhaps the Relay Bank isn't resetting very strongly. I'm sure you
    cleaned the switch off of the score motor's cam that resets the
    Bank Relay. You don't really have to take it apart, but I would
    clean the Bank Relay's coil plunger by spraying Lemon Pledge
    on a paper towel..
    Also, this only happened to me once where the slide bar that resets
    the pin relays was sticky and actually was giving the coil plates that
    it comes in contact with a little twist, and every so often it caused a
    couple of pin relays not to latch and reset. What I did was spray Carb
    Cleaner (or Paint Thinner, ect.) on a paper towel, and cleaned the slide
    bar and plates that the bar comes in contact with, and then lubed the
    slide bar..
    Perhaps it's contacts too close together in some other pin relays and
    at times they make contact from the vibration when resetting, but once
    again, I wouldn't think that the case with that many relays not latching..

    #204 21 days ago
    Quoted from chipleader:

    I used to put a piece of electrical tape on the back of the plate for a quick fix.

    That's what I did also, but with bowlers in taverns, restaurants, ect., eventually the tape would wear
    and then the stickim from the tape held in the plate, so I used a piece of paper, but in time, the paper
    would thin out, so I finally went with a piece of a cheap white paper plate, and that was long lasting.
    For the first time ever, I recently had a magnetized plunger in a coil and although I could get to the
    plunger itself, it would have been a pain to get out, so I filed as much of the circumference of the plunger
    that I could, and that did the trick..

    #205 21 days ago

    So I was back in the main relay bank and I took the coil loose to clean the plunger. It was pretty nasty and it had a bit of damage to the coil sleeve but don't think it affects anything. Lubed up the plunger with lemon pledge after a good degreasing and reassembled it all.

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    #206 21 days ago

    Okay so it doesn't happen every time but at least I just found a pattern in two player mode after the first players turn the pins come down and reset then I get a reset error in the fifth frame and the three four five six seven eight nine trip and retract. The very same thing happened in the exact same way in the 7th frame. The only difference the second time is that the nine pin didn't retract but was on the back glass as being tripped. Hopefully this will Spark something in one of you smarter people than me that will tell you what the problem is. I looked at the one and two player steppers I did not see anything that did not seem right

    #207 20 days ago

    I'm really just having a hard time figuring this thing
    out with this damn pin reset error. Just played a 3 player game and the first ball of the third player in the sixth and the ninth frame I got the pin reset error and the 5 6 7 8 and 9 pins retracted.

    #208 20 days ago

    Just played a 1 player game made it through with no pin resets however the frame indicator said I was on the ninth frame and yet the 10th Frame was lit up in the middle I didn't count so I'm not sure which one is correct.

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    #209 20 days ago

    You probably were in the 10th Frame and the Frame Reel skipped a beat.
    There should be an end of stroke switch on the frame unit that when stepped
    up, the switch makes and steps up the frame reel. You might want to check
    that switch out..
    If it's because the score more is running slow and the pins are resetting before
    the Relay Bank is reset, the problem usually goes away as the game is played and
    the score motor warms up, but are you certain the Bank Relay is resetting before
    the pins are in the down position? If the Bank resets just in time, the pins will lock
    and stay down, but the coil plates will make a clicking chatter..

    #210 20 days ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    You probably were in the 10th Frame and the Frame Reel skipped a beat.
    There should be an end of stroke switch on the frame unit that when stepped
    up, the switch makes and steps up the frame reel. You might want to check
    that switch out..
    If it's because the score more is running slow and the pins are resetting before
    the Relay Bank is reset, the problem usually goes away as the game is played and
    the score motor warms up, but are you certain the Bank Relay is resetting before
    the pins are in the down position? If the Bank resets just in time, the pins will lock
    and stay down, but the coil plates will make a clicking chatter..

    How can the pin motor run slow or run fast for that matter I thought it was set to run at 1 consistent speed? I have completely disassembled that score motor and sanded down the metal drum part of the armature and then oiled it. Not sure what else I could do to the motor to improve the performance of it, the bakelite disk has also been lubed to help it turn smoothly. I have also filed, cleaned and adjusted every switch on the score motor wheel and 1 of those switches is responsible for controlling the bank relay arm correct? Is it possible that switch is closing or opening prematurely?

    #211 20 days ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Is it possible that switch is closing or opening prematurely?

    No, I can't see how that switch's timing is off.
    It's not uncommon for a score motor to run slow.
    Most of the time cleaning and then a couple drops of light weight
    oil on the armature's tail will do the trick, but at times I had
    to take the motor apart and clean and re-lube.
    Yours shouldn't be running slow, I just thought it would be nice
    if a slow running score motor could 100% be eliminated to being
    the problem.. There are switches in pin relays that activate other pin
    relays, and if there adjusted too close together, they can make when the
    Bank resets from vibration and energize they're coils, but you have
    many pins going up to think that would be the problem.
    If the rollover switches are adjusted correctly and the rollovers
    aren't sticking, I'm not sure how the pin relays are re-energizing..

    #212 20 days ago

    Took the whole pin relay bank assembly out to visually inspect everything. This coil has seen better day also as a chunk of the coil sleeve is also missing.

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    #213 20 days ago

    Also went behind the machine and watched it as my kids played a 3 player game. It did a reset error for the 2nd player in 1st frame and then a few more times. I watched the bank reset just before the score motor stopped which I assume is is what is supposed to happen.

    #214 20 days ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    I watched the bank reset just before the score motor stopped which I assume is is what is supposed to happen.

    Yes, that's what suppose to happen, and although probably not the problem, but the biggest question
    is if the Bank resets just before the pins come downward and latch.

    #215 19 days ago

    Okay so latest update mopar sent me a replacement switch for my busted pin reset motor switch and I installed it this afternoon. I am so far six games in after swapping it out and have not had a single pin reset since. Fingers crossed that stupid $3 switch was the problem all along I will update later on this evening when I have about 15 more games on it.

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    #216 19 days ago

    We played another 5 games since swapping out that switch and not one pin reset error. I'm starting to feel pretty good.about this.

    #217 19 days ago

    Great thread, thanks for sharing the process.

    #218 19 days ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    Fingers crossed that stupid $3 switch was the problem all along I will update later on this evening when I have about 15 more games on it.

    It was a free fix. I didn't charge anything for that switch.
    I hope the machine continues to play well, but I don't
    understand how that switch alone fixed the problem.

    #219 19 days ago
    Quoted from Mopar:

    It was a free fix. I didn't charge anything for that switch.
    I hope the machine continues to play well, but I don't
    understand how that switch alone fixed the problem.

    Not sure either unless the switch was shorting out against the broken bottom leg that was partly missing. All I know is we played another 5 games and even switched to Flash a couple times just to see if things would mess up and they didn't. I now need to head down to the coin box area to relocate the toggle switch they wired in for power and the little push button for free play. Not sure where to relocate both of these switches too anyone have any pics of where they put theirs?

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    #220 19 days ago

    My bowler had the credit button placed under the coin box. The power toggle is just in front of that, under the gutter area.

    I'll send you a pick.

    #221 18 days ago

    My on/off switch and free credit buttons are set up the same way as RonSS. Under the coin box.
    Jim

    #222 18 days ago

    It started doing this crap this morning. Ughh 1 step forward 2 steps backwards.

    #223 18 days ago

    My puck bowler did that.
    The clutch on the reset motor was hanging up.
    A drop of oil fixed it.

    #224 18 days ago
    Quoted from electricsquirrel:

    My puck bowler did that.
    The clutch on the reset motor was hanging up.
    A drop of oil fixed it.

    Thanks squirrel I know I did that already but maybe I didn't give it enough or maybe it was pretty dry so I will definitely do that in the morning.

    #225 18 days ago

    Any luck?

    #226 18 days ago

    I got sidetracked. My wife had other plans for us this morning so I am now painting one of the kids bedroom

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    #227 18 days ago

    Sometimes a short break from a project offers a different perspective upon return.

    #228 16 days ago

    ……………………..well?

    #229 16 days ago
    Quoted from electricsquirrel:

    ……………………..well?

    Got stuck doing some more chores around the house yesterday. Planning on messing with it again today.

    #230 15 days ago

    Ok I pulled the pin reset motor back apart again. I put a few drops of oil down inside the motor. Put her back together and oiled the armature. Played 4 games with zero errors. Will try to put a few more games on her b4 I clear her.

    #231 12 days ago

    I'm guessing that the next few games went well also? Would love to hear this thing is officially up and running!

    #232 12 days ago

    Well it appears to be working properly now in regulation mode. In flash mode though I have noticed a couple times it isn't giving the correct score.

    #233 12 days ago

    On another positive note a box showed up today that made me pretty happy.

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    #234 12 days ago

    Vacation ended and i've been back at work this week getting slammed. I haven't had much energy to devote to it this week. Planning to look at it tomorrow and see whats going on with the scoring on flash. Pretty sure it only did it twice to player 1 on a 2 player game. Hmmm?

    #235 11 days ago

    Still working guys i'm not slowing down too awful much.

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    #236 11 days ago

    I love that stuff!

    #237 11 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I love that stuff!

    Yeah i had some worn parts with ball contact that needed to be freshened up. Still jave the cups on the ball lift chain to do.

    #238 11 days ago

    I'm going on a journey today for some parts.

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    #239 11 days ago
    Quoted from PinDeLaPin:

    I'm going on a journey today for some parts.
    [quoted image]

    Hmmmmmm, road trip for, , , ,

    #240 11 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Hmmmmmm, road trip for, , , ,

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    #241 11 days ago

    I think I know where this is headed!

    #242 9 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    I think I know where this is headed!

    Well if you guessed another ball bowler you guessed correct. Did a road trip and picked this one up as a parts machine I guess. I really have no use for the head assembly I only went and grabbed it because it had a 6 ft section of lane I wanted. I also now apparently have 21 backglasses now and like 25 lower backglasses also.

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    #243 9 days ago

    Now back to work on my machine. I'm just still plast-dipping some things trying to get everything perfectly functional.

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    #244 9 days ago

    I am trying to figure out how the hell do you take the chain assembly off the ball elevator? I want to plasti-dio all the finger sections that the balls ride on. Anybody have some insight into how to get that apart?

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    #245 8 days ago

    When I did mine I just loosened one end, which allowed me to pull the chain (in my case a belt) out and angle each set of fingers. But that's the lazy way!

    You'll probably have to remove the ball lift motor, and 2 guides

    #246 8 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    When I did mine I just loosened one end, which allowed me to pull the chain (in my case a belt) out and angle each set of fingers. But that's the lazy way!
    You'll probably have to remove the ball lift motor, and 2 guides

    Hey Ron when you reassembled your ball lift assembly what grease did you re-grease the chain with?

    #247 8 days ago

    I had a belt on my 56 United.

    #248 8 days ago

    Did you get yours apart?

    #249 8 days ago
    Quoted from RonSS:

    Did you get yours apart?

    I'm planning on attacking it when I get home this afternoon

    #250 7 days ago

    Well I figured it out and I have it out now it's time to clean the hell out of this thing and get it dipped in plastic

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